Discussion related to the LADI session handler

isi up | 10 Jun 2011 11:24

ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

Hi !
First of all, thanks for the work to gladish-team !!!
So, my probem is: i can use the 2 front inputs (mic & guitar) through Qjackctl perfectly, when it works when it wants (3 times for many more tries) on Gladish.
Does anyone have hints ?!
Thanks per advance, and please forgive my poor english !

<div><p>Hi !<br>First of all, thanks for the work to gladish-team !!!<br>So, my probem is: i can use the 2 front inputs (mic &amp; guitar) through Qjackctl perfectly, when it works when it wants (3 times for many more tries) on Gladish.<br>
Does anyone have hints ?!<br>Thanks per advance, and please forgive my poor english !<br></p></div>

headers

Nedko Arnaudov | 11 Jun 2011 15:01

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

> So, my probem is: i can use the 2 front inputs (mic & guitar) through
> Qjackctl perfectly, when it works when it wants (3 times for many more
> tries) on Gladish.
> Does anyone have hints ?!

there is no theoretical reason for qjackctl and ladish to behave
differently in such way. and there are not real world reports for it as
well. given that they configure jack in the same way, of course.

do you use qjackctl with jackd or with jackdbus? you should compar jack
settings and make the ladish ones to match the ones used by qjackctl.

when it dows not work in ladish, do you see errors in the ladish and/or
jackdbus log files?

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

> So, my probem is: i can use the 2 front inputs (mic & guitar) through
> Qjackctl perfectly, when it works when it wants (3 times for many more
> tries) on Gladish.
> Does anyone have hints ?!

there is no theoretical reason for qjackctl and ladish to behave
differently in such way. and there are not real world reports for it as
well. given that they configure jack in the same way, of course.

do you use qjackctl with jackd or with jackdbus? you should compar jack
settings and make the ladish ones to match the ones used by qjackctl.

when it dows not work in ladish, do you see errors in the ladish and/or
jackdbus log files?

--

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

headers

isi up | 11 Jun 2011 16:18

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

qjackctl and ladiconf with same settings: hw:5 for device and hw:5,1 for input (using this conf file http://www.joegiampaoli.com/personal_files/fast_track_pro/fast-track-pro.conf on a patched kernel).

It seems like i use jackd (jackdbus is unchecked in qjackctl settings window)

Here is the jack log error: "ERROR: ALSA: Cannot open PCM device alsa_pcm for capture. Falling back to playback-only mode", error i get with qjackctl if i don't specify input device.
A good .asoundrc might be the solution ?

Thanks for your quick reply, and apology for my english.

2011/6/11 Nedko Arnaudov <nedko-pIwpoS7APZaLwutG50LtGA@public.gmane.org>

isi up <isiupisi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> writes:

> So, my probem is: i can use the 2 front inputs (mic & guitar) through
> Qjackctl perfectly, when it works when it wants (3 times for many more
> tries) on Gladish.
> Does anyone have hints ?!

there is no theoretical reason for qjackctl and ladish to behave
differently in such way. and there are not real world reports for it as
well. given that they configure jack in the same way, of course.

do you use qjackctl with jackd or with jackdbus? you should compar jack
settings and make the ladish ones to match the ones used by qjackctl.

when it dows not work in ladish, do you see errors in the ladish and/or
jackdbus log files?

--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

<div>
<p>qjackctl and ladiconf with same settings: hw:5 for device and hw:5,1 for input (using this conf file <a href="http://www.joegiampaoli.com/personal_files/fast_track_pro/fast-track-pro.conf">http://www.joegiampaoli.com/personal_files/fast_track_pro/fast-track-pro.conf</a> on a patched kernel).<br><br>It seems like i use jackd (jackdbus is unchecked in qjackctl settings window)<br><br>Here is the jack log error: "ERROR: ALSA: Cannot open PCM device alsa_pcm for capture. Falling back to playback-only mode", error i get with qjackctl if i don't specify input device.<br>
A good .asoundrc might be the solution ?<br><br>Thanks for your quick reply, and apology for my english.<br><br><br></p>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/6/11 Nedko Arnaudov <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:nedko@...me">nedko@...</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div class="im">isi up &lt;<a href="mailto:isiupisi@...">isiupisi@...</a>&gt; writes:<br><br>
&gt; So, my probem is: i can use the 2 front inputs (mic &amp; guitar) through<br>
&gt; Qjackctl perfectly, when it works when it wants (3 times for many more<br>
&gt; tries) on Gladish.<br>
&gt; Does anyone have hints ?!<br><br>
</div>there is no theoretical reason for qjackctl and ladish to behave<br>
differently in such way. and there are not real world reports for it as<br>
well. given that they configure jack in the same way, of course.<br><br>
do you use qjackctl with jackd or with jackdbus? you should compar jack<br>
settings and make the ladish ones to match the ones used by qjackctl.<br><br>
when it dows not work in ladish, do you see errors in the ladish and/or<br>
jackdbus log files?<br><br>
--<br>
Nedko Arnaudov &lt;GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED&gt;<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>

headers

Nedko Arnaudov | 12 Jun 2011 02:39

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

> qjackctl and ladiconf with same settings: hw:5 for device and hw:5,1 for
> input (using this conf file
> http://www.joegiampaoli.com/personal_files/fast_track_pro/fast-track-pro.confon
> a patched kernel).

> It seems like i use jackd (jackdbus is unchecked in qjackctl settings
> window)
>
> Here is the jack log error: "ERROR: ALSA: Cannot open PCM device alsa_pcm
> for capture. Falling back to playback-only mode", error i get with qjackctl
> if i don't specify input device.

so what is the jackd commandline that qjackctl uses in your setup? the
jackdbus conf file is in ~/.config/jack/conf.xml (assuming that you use
jack2). please also provide the xml file for your ladish studio. you
will find it in the ~/.ladish/studios/ directory.

> A good .asoundrc might be the solution ?

I dont think so

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

> qjackctl and ladiconf with same settings: hw:5 for device and hw:5,1 for
> input (using this conf file
> http://www.joegiampaoli.com/personal_files/fast_track_pro/fast-track-pro.confon
> a patched kernel).

> It seems like i use jackd (jackdbus is unchecked in qjackctl settings
> window)
>
> Here is the jack log error: "ERROR: ALSA: Cannot open PCM device alsa_pcm
> for capture. Falling back to playback-only mode", error i get with qjackctl
> if i don't specify input device.

so what is the jackd commandline that qjackctl uses in your setup? the
jackdbus conf file is in ~/.config/jack/conf.xml (assuming that you use
jack2). please also provide the xml file for your ladish studio. you
will find it in the ~/.ladish/studios/ directory.

> A good .asoundrc might be the solution ?

I dont think so

--

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

headers

isi up | 13 Jun 2011 01:39

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

2011/6/12 Nedko Arnaudov <nedko-pIwpoS7APZaLwutG50LtGA@public.gmane.org>

so what is the jackd commandline that qjackctl uses in your setup?

jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:5 -C hw:5,1 -D -n 3 -r 48000 -p 256

the
jackdbus conf file is in ~/.config/jack/conf.xml (assuming that you use
jack2). please also provide the xml file for your ladish studio. you
will find it in the ~/.ladish/studios/ directory.

see the 2 attached files
Thanks !

Attachment (conf.xml): text/xml, 1254 bytes

Attachment (studio.xml): text/xml, 1915 bytes

<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/6/12 Nedko Arnaudov <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:nedko@..." target="_blank">nedko@...</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">

<br>
so what is the jackd commandline that qjackctl uses in your setup?</blockquote>
<div>
<br>jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:5 -C hw:5,1 -D -n 3 -r 48000 -p 256<br>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
 the<br>
jackdbus conf file is in ~/.config/jack/conf.xml (assuming that you use<br>
jack2). please also provide the xml file for your ladish studio. you<br>
will find it in the ~/.ladish/studios/ directory.<br><div></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>see the 2 attached files<br>Thanks !<br><br>
</div>

headers

Nedko Arnaudov | 13 Jun 2011 04:23

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

> 2011/6/12 Nedko Arnaudov <nedko@...>
>
>>
>> so what is the jackd commandline that qjackctl uses in your setup?
>
>
> jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:5 -C hw:5,1 -D -n 3 -r 48000 -p 256
>
>
>> the
>> jackdbus conf file is in ~/.config/jack/conf.xml (assuming that you use
>> jack2). please also provide the xml file for your ladish studio. you
>> will find it in the ~/.ladish/studios/ directory.
>>
>
>   <driver name="alsa">
>    <option name="capture">hw:5,1</option>
>    <option name="device">hw:5</option>
>    <option name="rate">48000</option>
>    <option name="period">256</option>
>    <option name="nperiods">3</option>
>    <option name="hwmon">false</option>
>    <option name="hwmeter">false</option>
>    <option name="duplex">true</option>
>    <option name="monitor">false</option>
>    <option name="shorts">false</option>
>    <option name="midi-driver">none</option>
>   </driver>

With jackdbus you should either use (device) or (capture and
playback). The reason it works for jackd is that in jackd parameters are
ordered. "-d hw:5" sets both playback and capture device to "hw:5" and
then "-C hw:5,1" changes the capture device to "hw:5,1".

In jackdbus there is no order of parameters, they are assumed to not
cover same values. So what happens is that capture device is set to
"hw:5,1" and then both capture and playback devices are set to "hw:5".

So, reset the "device" parameter to its default value. In ladi conf you
can do it by by double-clicking in the second column, the one that atm
shows "set". Then set the "playback" parameter to "hw:5".

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

> 2011/6/12 Nedko Arnaudov <nedko@...>
>
>>
>> so what is the jackd commandline that qjackctl uses in your setup?
>
>
> jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:5 -C hw:5,1 -D -n 3 -r 48000 -p 256
>
>
>> the
>> jackdbus conf file is in ~/.config/jack/conf.xml (assuming that you use
>> jack2). please also provide the xml file for your ladish studio. you
>> will find it in the ~/.ladish/studios/ directory.
>>
>
>   <driver name="alsa">
>    <option name="capture">hw:5,1</option>
>    <option name="device">hw:5</option>
>    <option name="rate">48000</option>
>    <option name="period">256</option>
>    <option name="nperiods">3</option>
>    <option name="hwmon">false</option>
>    <option name="hwmeter">false</option>
>    <option name="duplex">true</option>
>    <option name="monitor">false</option>
>    <option name="shorts">false</option>
>    <option name="midi-driver">none</option>
>   </driver>

With jackdbus you should either use (device) or (capture and
playback). The reason it works for jackd is that in jackd parameters are
ordered. "-d hw:5" sets both playback and capture device to "hw:5" and
then "-C hw:5,1" changes the capture device to "hw:5,1".

In jackdbus there is no order of parameters, they are assumed to not
cover same values. So what happens is that capture device is set to
"hw:5,1" and then both capture and playback devices are set to "hw:5".

So, reset the "device" parameter to its default value. In ladi conf you
can do it by by double-clicking in the second column, the one that atm
shows "set". Then set the "playback" parameter to "hw:5".

--

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

headers

isi up | 13 Jun 2011 12:42

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

So, reset the "device" parameter to its default value. In ladi conf you
can do it by by double-clicking in the second column, the one that atm
shows "set". Then set the "playback" parameter to "hw:5".

Tried this, and several other settings (only capture, only playback, not duplex),
but ladish stills complain with the same error message.

I notice that i can put what i want for playback and capture (hw:5, hw:5,0, hw:5,1) laditray's jack logs return this from jack launch:
creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 | 256 | 3 | 48000 | 0 | 0 | nomon | swmeter | - | 32 bit
when it should return:
creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5,1 (with capture=hw:5,1 and playback=hw:5)
where is the problem ?!

<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<br>
So, reset the "device" parameter to its default value. In ladi conf you<br>
can do it by by double-clicking in the second column, the one that atm<br>
shows "set". Then set the "playback" parameter to "hw:5".<br>
</blockquote>
<div>
<br>Tried this, and several other settings (only capture, only playback, not duplex),<br>but ladish stills complain with the same error message.<br><br>I notice that i can put what i want for playback and capture (hw:5, hw:5,0, hw:5,1) laditray's jack logs return this from jack launch:<br>creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 | 256 | 3 | 48000 | 0 | 0 | nomon | swmeter | - | 32 bit<br>
when it should return:<br>creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5,1 (with capture=hw:5,1 and playback=hw:5)<br>where is the problem ?!<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>

headers

Nedko Arnaudov | 15 Jun 2011 05:13

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

>>
>>
>> So, reset the "device" parameter to its default value. In ladi conf you
>> can do it by by double-clicking in the second column, the one that atm
>> shows "set". Then set the "playback" parameter to "hw:5".
>>
>
> Tried this, and several other settings (only capture, only playback, not
> duplex),
> but ladish stills complain with the same error message.
>
> I notice that i can put what i want for playback and capture (hw:5, hw:5,0,
> hw:5,1) laditray's jack logs return this from jack launch:
> creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 | 256 | 3 | 48000 | 0 | 0 | nomon |
> swmeter | - | 32 bit

are you sure that you have *reset* the device parameter?

> when it should return:
> creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5,1 (with capture=hw:5,1 and
> playback=hw:5)
> where is the problem ?!

do you want hw:5,0 or hw:5 as playback device?

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

>>
>>
>> So, reset the "device" parameter to its default value. In ladi conf you
>> can do it by by double-clicking in the second column, the one that atm
>> shows "set". Then set the "playback" parameter to "hw:5".
>>
>
> Tried this, and several other settings (only capture, only playback, not
> duplex),
> but ladish stills complain with the same error message.
>
> I notice that i can put what i want for playback and capture (hw:5, hw:5,0,
> hw:5,1) laditray's jack logs return this from jack launch:
> creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 | 256 | 3 | 48000 | 0 | 0 | nomon |
> swmeter | - | 32 bit

are you sure that you have *reset* the device parameter?

> when it should return:
> creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5,1 (with capture=hw:5,1 and
> playback=hw:5)
> where is the problem ?!

do you want hw:5,0 or hw:5 as playback device?

--

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

headers

isi up | 15 Jun 2011 10:53

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

> creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 | 256 | 3 | 48000 | 0 | 0 | nomon |
> swmeter | - | 32 bit

are you sure that you have *reset* the device parameter?

Hell yeah, sure i've done it!
In fact, i even tried with qjackctl, dbus interface activated, and i realized that i receive same error.
The device setting seems to be persistent: if i picked up device hw:0 before resetting to default,
jack starts with this "creating alsa driver ... hw:0 | hw:0 ..." and if it was hw:5 i got "creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 ..."
So it seems that jack with dbus doesn't want to use playback and capture settings but device setting,

> when it should return:
> creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5,1 (with capture=hw:5,1 and
> playback=hw:5)
> where is the problem ?!

do you want hw:5,0 or hw:5 as playback device?

in fact i don't care, both work on qjackctl without dbus, so i try with hw:5,0 then hw:5
Thanks for your help !

<div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div class="im">
&gt; creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 | 256 | 3 | 48000 | 0 | 0 | nomon |<br>
&gt; swmeter | - | 32 bit<br><br>
</div>are you sure that you have *reset* the device parameter?<br><div class="im"><br></div>
</blockquote>
<div>Hell yeah, sure i've done it!<br>In fact, i even tried with qjackctl, dbus interface activated, and i realized that i receive same error.<br>The device setting seems to be persistent: if i picked up device hw:0 before resetting to default,<br>
jack starts with this "creating alsa driver ... hw:0 | hw:0 ..." and if it was hw:5 i got "creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 ..." <br>So it seems that jack with dbus doesn't want to use playback and capture settings but device setting, <br>
&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div class="im">
&gt; when it should return:<br>
&gt; creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5,1 (with capture=hw:5,1 and<br>
&gt; playback=hw:5)<br>
&gt; where is the problem ?!<br><br>
</div>do you want hw:5,0 or hw:5 as playback device?<br><br>
</blockquote>
</div>in fact i don't care, both work on qjackctl without dbus, so i try with hw:5,0 then hw:5<br>Thanks for your help !<br>
</div>

headers

Nedko Arnaudov | 15 Jun 2011 12:17

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

>> > creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 | 256 | 3 | 48000 | 0 | 0 | nomon |
>> > swmeter | - | 32 bit
>>
>> are you sure that you have *reset* the device parameter?
>>
>> Hell yeah, sure i've done it!
> In fact, i even tried with qjackctl, dbus interface activated, and i
> realized that i receive same error.
> The device setting seems to be persistent: if i picked up device hw:0 before
> resetting to default,
> jack starts with this "creating alsa driver ... hw:0 | hw:0 ..." and if it
> was hw:5 i got "creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 ..."
> So it seems that jack with dbus doesn't want to use playback and capture
> settings but device setting,

reactivate jackdbus and check that the device parameter is not set in
the jackdbus conf file.

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

>> > creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 | 256 | 3 | 48000 | 0 | 0 | nomon |
>> > swmeter | - | 32 bit
>>
>> are you sure that you have *reset* the device parameter?
>>
>> Hell yeah, sure i've done it!
> In fact, i even tried with qjackctl, dbus interface activated, and i
> realized that i receive same error.
> The device setting seems to be persistent: if i picked up device hw:0 before
> resetting to default,
> jack starts with this "creating alsa driver ... hw:0 | hw:0 ..." and if it
> was hw:5 i got "creating alsa driver ... hw:5 | hw:5 ..."
> So it seems that jack with dbus doesn't want to use playback and capture
> settings but device setting,

reactivate jackdbus and check that the device parameter is not set in
the jackdbus conf file.

--

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

headers

isi up | 15 Jun 2011 16:13

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

reactivate jackdbus and check that the device parameter is not set in
the jackdbus conf file.

Perfect ! Thanks a lot !
Even if i set Default for Device, Qjackctl + dBus writes device parameter in ~/.config/jack/conf.xml; what ladiconf does not.
So yes, that's the solution:
<driver name="alsa">
   <option name="capture">hw:5,1</option>
   <option name="playback">hw:5,0</option>
   <option name="period">256</option>
   <option name="nperiods">3</option>
   <option name="hwmon">false</option>
   <option name="hwmeter">false</option>
   <option name="shorts">false</option>
</driver>

Thanks again, it simply works !

But here comes another (little) problem:
If i stop a studio and reload it or another one, i get crackle and accoustic feedback from mic, i'm forced to reboot.
(Or perhaps there's a command i'm not aware of)

<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div class="im">
<br>
</div>reactivate jackdbus and check that the device parameter is not set in<br>
the jackdbus conf file.<br><div><div class="h5"><br></div></div>
</blockquote>Perfect ! Thanks a lot !<br>Even if i set Default for Device, Qjackctl + dBus writes device parameter in ~/.config/jack/conf.xml; what ladiconf does not.<br>So yes, that's the solution:<br>&lt;driver name="alsa"&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;option name="capture"&gt;hw:5,1&lt;/option&gt;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;option name="playback"&gt;hw:5,0&lt;/option&gt;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;option name="period"&gt;256&lt;/option&gt;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;option name="nperiods"&gt;3&lt;/option&gt;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;option name="hwmon"&gt;false&lt;/option&gt;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;option name="hwmeter"&gt;false&lt;/option&gt;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;option name="shorts"&gt;false&lt;/option&gt;<br>&nbsp; &lt;/driver&gt;&nbsp; <br>
</div>
Thanks again, it simply works !<br><br>But here comes another (little) problem:<br>If i stop a studio and reload it or another one, i get crackle and accoustic feedback from mic, i'm forced to reboot.<br>(Or perhaps there's a command i'm not aware of)<br>
</div>

headers

Nedko Arnaudov | 17 Jun 2011 02:05

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

> But here comes another (little) problem:
> If i stop a studio and reload it or another one, i get crackle and accoustic
> feedback from mic, i'm forced to reboot.
> (Or perhaps there's a command i'm not aware of)

My imagination fails to create even half-realistic view of what could
cause this. Or maybe I don't understand what you describe.

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

isi up <isiupisi@...> writes:

> But here comes another (little) problem:
> If i stop a studio and reload it or another one, i get crackle and accoustic
> feedback from mic, i'm forced to reboot.
> (Or perhaps there's a command i'm not aware of)

My imagination fails to create even half-realistic view of what could
cause this. Or maybe I don't understand what you describe.

--

-- 
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: 5D1B58ED>

headers

isi up | 17 Jun 2011 09:51

Re: ladish 0.3 on Fast Track Pro

My imagination fails to create even half-realistic view of what could
cause this. Or maybe I don't understand what you describe.

Haha ! No, seriously i just posted too fast.
This problem only occurs when a studio crashes or isn't properly unloaded,
So evrything's all right !
Thanks again for gladish (and other), just what i needed !!!

<div><div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">My imagination fails to create even half-realistic view of what could<br>

cause this. Or maybe I don't understand what you describe.<br><div>
<div></div>
<div class="h5"><br></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Haha ! No, seriously i just posted too fast.<br>This problem only occurs when a studio crashes or isn't properly unloaded,<br>So evrything's all right !<br>
Thanks again for gladish (and other), just what i needed !!!<br>
</div>
</div></div>