ChurruKa | 1 Jan 16:01 2012

Extra Title Information on recordings

Since NGS went live I have been moving Extra Title Information form Recording
titles to the disambiguation comment, but on a recent edit I made (
http://musicbrainz.org/edit/16029660 ) mihhkel asked me why I was doing it
and, well... I could not find a guideline for it, so I'm asking about it
here.

Now in NGS, should Extra Title Information be part of title or part of the
disambiguation comment? I think, as the field name says, the title should
only have the Works title(s) normalized (separated by slashes when two or
more songs are on the same recording, with medley title if it has one, etc)
while "extra" info. ("live", "edit", etc) should be put on the
disambiguation comment (so usually different performances of the same song
have the same recording titles and different disambiguation comments).

In either case, I think http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Recording should be
updated so it explicelty says to keep ETI on title or move to disambiguation
(though a RFC  would be needed for this...)

Happy New Year :)

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Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren | 1 Jan 16:05 2012
Picon

Re: Extra Title Information on recordings

On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 5:01 PM, ChurruKa <churruka@...> wrote:
> Since NGS went live I have been moving Extra Title Information form Recording
> titles to the disambiguation comment, but on a recent edit I made (
> http://musicbrainz.org/edit/16029660 ) mihhkel asked me why I was doing it
> and, well... I could not find a guideline for it, so I'm asking about it
> here.

The only guideline for ETI is live, which should be moved to recording
comments in a specific way as indicated in
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Specific_types_of_releases#Live_recordings
For the rest, there's nothing, and a lot of people explicitly are
against moving a lot of ETI to comments - although stuff like "album
version" or "single version" is probably safe to move, especially if
not indicated as such in all releases.

> Now in NGS, should Extra Title Information be part of title or part of the
> disambiguation comment? I think, as the field name says, the title should
> only have the Works title(s) normalized (separated by slashes when two or
> more songs are on the same recording, with medley title if it has one, etc)
> while "extra" info. ("live", "edit", etc) should be put on the
> disambiguation comment (so usually different performances of the same song
> have the same recording titles and different disambiguation comments).
>
> In either case, I think http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Recording should be
> updated so it explicelty says to keep ETI on title or move to disambiguation
> (though a RFC  would be needed for this...)
>
> Happy New Year :)
>
> --
(Continue reading)

jesus2099 | 2 Jan 10:49 2012

Re: Extra Title Information on recordings

I’m against moving ETI from name to comment when it is explicitely printed on
the release, thus a known ETI.
ETI in comment should be reserved to the ETI that is made up by us, for
disambiguation purpose.
This is what I think. :)
Tristan.

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ChurruKa | 13 Jan 21:21 2011

Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:22:54, Frederic Da Vitoria
<davitofrg@...> wrote:
> I still think that physically separating ETI from the actual title would be
> a good idea. I understand that the comment field would not be the correct
> way to do it, but I believe that cramming different types of data into one
> field is a bad way to do things.

IMO we should keep the titles as they currently are (with the extra
title info.) and maybe later ALSO split them on two different fields,
so users/websites/etc accessing the data can choose to handle it the
way they want. Some months ago I posted a feature request about this
at http://jira.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-832
ChurruKa | 13 Jan 21:25 2011

Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment

(The feature req. I sent was about subtitles, but I think the
principle is the same)

2011/1/13 ChurruKa <churruka@...>:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:22:54, Frederic Da Vitoria
<davitofrg@...> wrote:
>> I still think that physically separating ETI from the actual title would be
>> a good idea. I understand that the comment field would not be the correct
>> way to do it, but I believe that cramming different types of data into one
>> field is a bad way to do things.
>
> IMO we should keep the titles as they currently are (with the extra
> title info.) and maybe later ALSO split them on two different fields,
> so users/websites/etc accessing the data can choose to handle it the
> way they want. Some months ago I posted a feature request about this
> at http://jira.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-832
>
Jan van Thiel (MusicBrainz | 10 Mar 14:44 2011

Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment

Hi,

A ticket has been filed regarding extra fields for ETI:
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-1608

Jan (zout)

On 13 January 2011 21:25, ChurruKa <churruka@...> wrote:
> (The feature req. I sent was about subtitles, but I think the
> principle is the same)
>
> 2011/1/13 ChurruKa <churruka@...>:
>> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:22:54, Frederic Da Vitoria
<davitofrg@...> wrote:
>>> I still think that physically separating ETI from the actual title would be
>>> a good idea. I understand that the comment field would not be the correct
>>> way to do it, but I believe that cramming different types of data into one
>>> field is a bad way to do things.
>>
>> IMO we should keep the titles as they currently are (with the extra
>> title info.) and maybe later ALSO split them on two different fields,
>> so users/websites/etc accessing the data can choose to handle it the
>> way they want. Some months ago I posted a feature request about this
>> at http://jira.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-832
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-style mailing list
> MusicBrainz-style@...
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
(Continue reading)

Alex Y | 11 Mar 13:23 2011
Picon

Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment

I don't see how this is a good idea, especially for "(instrumental)" and related Karaoke-meaning ETI.  Wouldn't a release then just list duplicate track names which are actually quite different?

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 4:00 AM, <musicbrainz-style-request <at> lists.musicbrainz.org> wrote:
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  1. Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:44:13 +0100
From: "Jan van Thiel (MusicBrainz)" <zout-KBL2nvpmoMWwuQCsB3dHJA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [mb-style] Extra Title Information vs Recording comment
To: MusicBrainz Style Discussion
       <musicbrainz-style-VWJlPdIPk9unah5wVhspdpv38IJrVKKD@public.gmane.org>
Message-ID:
       <AANLkTinGnbLV1DKzu==w_QPD6hMYn1s=YGeEGKP3E1=L <at> mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi,

A ticket has been filed regarding extra fields for ETI:
http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-1608

Jan (zout)

On 13 January 2011 21:25, ChurruKa <churruka-6agXGuq9NuEKlTDg6p0iyA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> (The feature req. I sent was about subtitles, but I think the
> principle is the same)
>
> 2011/1/13 ChurruKa <churruka-6agXGuq9NuEKlTDg6p0iyA@public.gmane.org>:
>> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:22:54, Frederic Da Vitoria <davitofrg-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>> I still think that physically separating ETI from the actual title would be
>>> a good idea. I understand that the comment field would not be the correct
>>> way to do it, but I believe that cramming different types of data into one
>>> field is a bad way to do things.
>>
>> IMO we should keep the titles as they currently are (with the extra
>> title info.) and maybe later ALSO split them on two different fields,
>> so users/websites/etc accessing the data can choose to handle it the
>> way they want. Some months ago I posted a feature request about this
>> at http://jira.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-832
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-style mailing list
> MusicBrainz-style-VWJlPdIPk9unah5wVhspdpv38IJrVKKD@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style



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Jan van Thiel (MusicBrainz | 11 Mar 14:28 2011

Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment

Hi,

Note I didn't request the ETI to be removed from the title, I only
requested extra fields.

Jan (zout)

On 11 March 2011 13:23, Alex Y <neothe0ne1@...> wrote:
> I don't see how this is a good idea, especially for "(instrumental)" and
> related Karaoke-meaning ETI.  Wouldn't a release then just list duplicate
> track names which are actually quite different?
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 4:00 AM,
> <musicbrainz-style-request@...> wrote:
>>
>> Send MusicBrainz-style mailing list submissions to
>>        musicbrainz-style@...
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>        musicbrainz-style-request@...
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>        musicbrainz-style-owner@...
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of MusicBrainz-style digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment
>>      (Jan van Thiel (MusicBrainz))
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:44:13 +0100
>> From: "Jan van Thiel (MusicBrainz)" <zout@...>
>> Subject: Re: [mb-style] Extra Title Information vs Recording comment
>> To: MusicBrainz Style Discussion
>>        <musicbrainz-style@...>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <AANLkTinGnbLV1DKzu==w_QPD6hMYn1s=YGeEGKP3E1=L <at> mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A ticket has been filed regarding extra fields for ETI:
>> http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-1608
>>
>> Jan (zout)
>>
>> On 13 January 2011 21:25, ChurruKa <churruka@...> wrote:
>> > (The feature req. I sent was about subtitles, but I think the
>> > principle is the same)
>> >
>> > 2011/1/13 ChurruKa <churruka@...>:
>> >> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:22:54, Frederic Da Vitoria <davitofrg@...m>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> I still think that physically separating ETI from the actual title
>> >>> would be
>> >>> a good idea. I understand that the comment field would not be the
>> >>> correct
>> >>> way to do it, but I believe that cramming different types of data into
>> >>> one
>> >>> field is a bad way to do things.
>> >>
>> >> IMO we should keep the titles as they currently are (with the extra
>> >> title info.) and maybe later ALSO split them on two different fields,
>> >> so users/websites/etc accessing the data can choose to handle it the
>> >> way they want. Some months ago I posted a feature request about this
>> >> at http://jira.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-832
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > MusicBrainz-style mailing list
>> > MusicBrainz-style@...
>> > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
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>
>
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Frederic Da Vitoria | 11 Mar 20:46 2011
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Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment

Yes, we are currently putting into the title things which aren't actually part of the title, So this idea is to create a new field to put those informations, thus allowing us to use the title field exclusively for the title. We don't want to lose the information, we only want to put it in a proper place.

2011/3/11 Jan van Thiel (MusicBrainz) <zout-KBL2nvpmoMWWEEyXX46huQ@public.gmane.orgg>
Hi,

Note I didn't request the ETI to be removed from the title, I only
requested extra fields.

Jan (zout)

On 11 March 2011 13:23, Alex Y <neothe0ne1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I don't see how this is a good idea, especially for "(instrumental)" and
> related Karaoke-meaning ETI.  Wouldn't a release then just list duplicate
> track names which are actually quite different?
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 4:00 AM,
> <musicbrainz-style-request-VWJlPdIPk9unah5wVhspdpv38IJrVKKD@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> Send MusicBrainz-style mailing list submissions to
>>        musicbrainz-style-VWJlPdIPk9unah5wVhspdpv38IJrVKKD@public.gmane.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>        http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of MusicBrainz-style digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment
>>      (Jan van Thiel (MusicBrainz))
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:44:13 +0100
>> From: "Jan van Thiel (MusicBrainz)" <zout-KBL2nvpmoMWwuQCsB3dHJA@public.gmane.org>
>> Subject: Re: [mb-style] Extra Title Information vs Recording comment
>> To: MusicBrainz Style Discussion
>>        <musicbrainz-style-VWJlPdIPk9unah5wVhspdpv38IJrVKKD@public.gmane.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <AANLkTinGnbLV1DKzu==w_QPD6hMYn1s=YGeEGKP3E1=L <at> mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A ticket has been filed regarding extra fields for ETI:
>> http://tickets.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-1608
>>
>> Jan (zout)
>>
>> On 13 January 2011 21:25, ChurruKa <churruka-6agXGuq9NuEKlTDg6p0iyA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> > (The feature req. I sent was about subtitles, but I think the
>> > principle is the same)
>> >
>> > 2011/1/13 ChurruKa <churruka-6agXGuq9NuEKlTDg6p0iyA@public.gmane.org>:
>> >> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:22:54, Frederic Da Vitoria <davitofrg-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> I still think that physically separating ETI from the actual title
>> >>> would be
>> >>> a good idea. I understand that the comment field would not be the
>> >>> correct
>> >>> way to do it, but I believe that cramming different types of data into
>> >>> one
>> >>> field is a bad way to do things.
>> >>
>> >> IMO we should keep the titles as they currently are (with the extra
>> >> title info.) and maybe later ALSO split them on two different fields,
>> >> so users/websites/etc accessing the data can choose to handle it the
>> >> way they want. Some months ago I posted a feature request about this
>> >> at http://jira.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-832
>> >>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > MusicBrainz-style mailing list
>> > MusicBrainz-style-VWJlPdIPk9unah5wVhspdpv38IJrVKKD@public.gmane.org
>> > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Aurélien Mino | 11 Mar 21:08 2011
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Re: Extra Title Information vs Recording comment

On 03/11/2011 01:23 PM, Alex Y wrote:
> I don't see how this is a good idea, especially for "(instrumental)" 
> and related Karaoke-meaning ETI.  Wouldn't a release then just list 
> duplicate track names which are actually quite different?
This discussion is about recording title, not track title.
In NGS they're separate, and track title will still contain 
"(instrumental)".

- Aurélien

Gmane