Wjhonson | 23 Apr 20:40 2012
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[U2] BDT what's the big deal?


Could someone give me a list of their three or five things in BDT, coming from the line editor environment,
that they've found the most useful about it?

That is, as a salesperson, to old school Universe coders, what are the key selling points?

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Doug Averch | 23 Apr 21:52 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Will:

I've done this many times on this list before.  But just so we don't
start another flame war, I have listed a few of the features of BDT
and its competitor XLr8Editor from U2logic in no order of importance.

1) Shows compiler errors while you type
2) Outline of variables used and internal subroutines in a clickable pane.
3) Double click on any variable to see all occurrences in the program
4) Maintains local history of all changes
5) Bookmark support
6) Open subroutines or includes with a single keys stroke
7) Version control is available from CVS, Subversion, GIT, Perforce,
or Team Foundation
8) Code assist or completion depending on your view
9) Template support included
10) Dictionary editor is included

Regards,
Doug
www.u2logic.com/tools.html
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Wjhonson | 23 Apr 23:59 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


So the first thing I try to do that the slightest bit interesting and get
'Unhandled event loop exception'

That's me. Breaking my toys on the first day.

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Averch <daverch <at> gmail.com>
To: U2 Users List <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 12:52 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Will:
I've done this many times on this list before.  But just so we don't
tart another flame war, I have listed a few of the features of BDT
nd its competitor XLr8Editor from U2logic in no order of importance.
1) Shows compiler errors while you type
) Outline of variables used and internal subroutines in a clickable pane.
) Double click on any variable to see all occurrences in the program
) Maintains local history of all changes
) Bookmark support
) Open subroutines or includes with a single keys stroke
) Version control is available from CVS, Subversion, GIT, Perforce,
r Team Foundation
) Code assist or completion depending on your view
) Template support included
0) Dictionary editor is included
Regards,
oug
ww.u2logic.com/tools.html
(Continue reading)

Wjhonson | 24 Apr 00:06 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


So evidently it turns out that Code Assist for GOSUB has a bug in it.
In the following the upper case are characters typed, while the lower case are command keys
The documentation to my mind isn't very clear but
So type

GOSUB space ctrl+space

In a program which HAS no labels at all and you get a run-time error
Evidently it was never coded to handle people asking for an empty window or a null or whatever.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjhonson <at> aol.com>
To: u2-users <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

So the first thing I try to do that the slightest bit interesting and get
'Unhandled event loop exception'

That's me. Breaking my toys on the first day.

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Averch <daverch <at> gmail.com>
To: U2 Users List <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 12:52 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Will:
I've done this many times on this list before.  But just so we don't
(Continue reading)

Wjhonson | 24 Apr 02:11 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


Another odd bug, evidently in the code that determines if you are trying to GOSUB a label that doesn't exist.
In this case however, the label exists, but it's also like 1600 lines past the GOSUB.  I wonder if BDT is
barfing because of that distance?
It says "Label END.OF.JOB not defined" but it is.  If I just move the subroutine further up in the code, it's fine.
So it's either the distance, or it thinks the code is ending before it gets to this label.
Code compiles fine, it's an old program that's been running for several years.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjhonson <at> aol.com>
To: wjhonson <wjhonson <at> aol.com>; u2-users <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 3:06 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

So evidently it turns out that Code Assist for GOSUB has a bug in it.
In the following the upper case are characters typed, while the lower case are command keys
The documentation to my mind isn't very clear but
So type

GOSUB space ctrl+space

In a program which HAS no labels at all and you get a run-time error
Evidently it was never coded to handle people asking for an empty window or a null or whatever.

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Wjhonson <wjhonson <at> aol.com>
To: u2-users <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?
(Continue reading)

Doug Averch | 24 Apr 03:17 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

What can I say?  Maybe you should try out the competition...

Regards,
Doug
www.u2logic.com/XLr8_Editor.html
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John Jenkins | 24 Apr 10:39 2012

Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

All, 

I've been keeping an eye on the BDT exchanges. If we can get a group consensus on bugs and issues rated as "Show
Stoppers", "Must Have", "Should Have" and "Could Have" points then let's see if it has legs.

Would someone be willing to step forward and collate responses so that we can get a shared consensus? I'm
willing to take it from there.

Regards

JayJay

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Apr 2012, at 01:11, Wjhonson <wjhonson <at> aol.com> wrote:

> 
> Another odd bug, evidently in the code that determines if you are trying to GOSUB a label that doesn't exist.
> In this case however, the label exists, but it's also like 1600 lines past the GOSUB.  I wonder if BDT is
barfing because of that distance?
> It says "Label END.OF.JOB not defined" but it is.  If I just move the subroutine further up in the code, it's fine.
> So it's either the distance, or it thinks the code is ending before it gets to this label.
> Code compiles fine, it's an old program that's been running for several years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wjhonson <wjhonson <at> aol.com>
> To: wjhonson <wjhonson <at> aol.com>; u2-users <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
(Continue reading)

Daniel McGrath | 24 Apr 16:10 2012

Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Just to confirm JJ's email, we are looking to focus on BDT in the November of U2 DBTools release so if there are
certain issues you feel are important, email either JJ or myself so we are aware of them.

Regards,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: u2-users-bounces <at> listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-bounces <at> listserver.u2ug.org] On
Behalf Of John Jenkins
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:39 AM
To: U2 Users List
Cc: u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

All, 

I've been keeping an eye on the BDT exchanges. If we can get a group consensus on bugs and issues rated as "Show
Stoppers", "Must Have", "Should Have" and "Could Have" points then let's see if it has legs.

Would someone be willing to step forward and collate responses so that we can get a shared consensus? I'm
willing to take it from there.

Regards

JayJay

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Apr 2012, at 01:11, Wjhonson <wjhonson <at> aol.com> wrote:

(Continue reading)

Wjhonson | 24 Apr 16:44 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


 Well since the "undefined label" bug causes the editor to barf and not let me roll-up code at all, that's
important to me.  I can't use other features of BDT because of this.  I don't think it's a good thing to make
programmers reshuffle their code to please a tool that supposed to be helping them be more efficient or
something.  So did you add this as a bug to your list to fix tomorrow :)~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel McGrath <DMcGrath <at> rocketsoftware.com>
To: U2 Users List <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 7:11 am
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Just to confirm JJ's email, we are looking to focus on BDT in the November of U2 
DBTools release so if there are certain issues you feel are important, email 
either JJ or myself so we are aware of them.

Regards,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: u2-users-bounces <at> listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-bounces <at> listserver.u2ug.org] 
On Behalf Of John Jenkins
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:39 AM
To: U2 Users List
Cc: u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

All, 

I've been keeping an eye on the BDT exchanges. If we can get a group consensus 
(Continue reading)

Doug Averch | 24 Apr 17:06 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Sorry, Will only U2logic can put out releases on a daily basis for our
tools product.  We prefer, however, to put them out every 3 or 4
weeks.

Regards,
Doug
www.u2logic.com
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Daniel McGrath | 24 Apr 17:13 2012

Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Minor correction: As of the U2 DBTools release in March, Rocket Software runs an eclipse update site for all
tools in this suite.

Regards,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: u2-users-bounces <at> listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-bounces <at> listserver.u2ug.org] On
Behalf Of Doug Averch
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:07 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Sorry, Will only U2logic can put out releases on a daily basis for our tools product.  We prefer, however, to
put them out every 3 or 4 weeks.

Regards,
Doug
www.u2logic.com
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Symeon Breen | 24 Apr 10:39 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

I think there are a few bugs - in that particular case I don't think it
likes labels with dots in them, prob because it was written by an oop person
rather than a unibasic one.

However it is worth sticking with , after a few weeks, maybe a month you
will never go back.

As said, there are many alternatives, from  WED or wintegrate editor, to the
old unidebugger and Doug's Xlr8. Use any of these for a short period of time
and you will rarely use ED to edit programs again. 

-----Original Message-----
From: u2-users-bounces <at> listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-bounces <at> listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 24 April 2012 01:11
To: wjhonson <at> aol.com; u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Another odd bug, evidently in the code that determines if you are trying to
GOSUB a label that doesn't exist.
In this case however, the label exists, but it's also like 1600 lines past
the GOSUB.  I wonder if BDT is barfing because of that distance?
It says "Label END.OF.JOB not defined" but it is.  If I just move the
subroutine further up in the code, it's fine.
So it's either the distance, or it thinks the code is ending before it gets
to this label.
Code compiles fine, it's an old program that's been running for several
years.

-----Original Message-----
(Continue reading)

Wjhonson | 24 Apr 18:40 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


Good try, but that's not it Symeon.
For example I have code like

GOSUB PRINT.LABELS
GOSUB END.OF.JOB
RETURN
*
PRINT.LABELS:
do stuff
RETURN
*
END.OF.JOB:
do other stuff

In that case, it doesn't barf, the roll up ability is still present.
When I select "PRINT.LABELS" (another feature that is woefully [not] documented) and then hit F3 it jumps
directly to the label PRINT.LABELS which proves that it can understand what I want, and that also works for
END.OF.JOB so it even likes two dots! :)~~

Speaking of documentation my "outline view" vanished and I can't figure out how to get it back.
How?

-----Original Message-----
From: Symeon Breen <symeonb <at> gmail.com>
To: 'U2 Users List' <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:39 am
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

I think there are a few bugs - in that particular case I don't think it
(Continue reading)

Doug Averch | 24 Apr 19:35 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Will:

I have all of the documentation available on our web site at
www.u2logic.com/downloads.html as well as inside Eclipse's Help System.

   1. Eclipse Training Guide (A class I gave a CMUG a many months ago)  -
   24 pages
   2. XLr8Editor User Guide - 14 pages
   3. XLr8Editor Search Users Guide - 8 pages
   4. XLr8Editor Version Control - 28 pages

Free trial as available follow the documentation on Install XLr8 Eclipse
product guide.

Regards,
Doug
www.u2logic.com/tools.html
"Eclipse tools for the rest of us"
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Wjhonson | 24 Apr 20:07 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


Doug I downloaded your Xlr8Editor and am able to see the files in the uv account.
But it won't connect to another account I'm trying.  I tried it without a path specified, and with both, and it
gives me an error.
When I try to see the "properties" and "Apply and Test access" I get

 pingU2Session unable to get U2Session msg=[~ERROR-UniSessionException,ERROR UNABLE TO CONNECT TO

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Averch <daverch <at> gmail.com>
To: U2 Users List <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 10:35 am
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

Will:
I have all of the documentation available on our web site at
ww.u2logic.com/downloads.html as well as inside Eclipse's Help System.
   1. Eclipse Training Guide (A class I gave a CMUG a many months ago)  -
  24 pages
  2. XLr8Editor User Guide - 14 pages
  3. XLr8Editor Search Users Guide - 8 pages
  4. XLr8Editor Version Control - 28 pages
Free trial as available follow the documentation on Install XLr8 Eclipse
roduct guide.
Regards,
oug
ww.u2logic.com/tools.html
Eclipse tools for the rest of us"
______________________________________________
2-Users mailing list
(Continue reading)

Wjhonson | 25 Apr 20:59 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


Another bug-or-oddity in the BDT Editor.
Some wily programmer before me, decided it was jim dandy to use certain reserved words as variables.
The compiled has no problem with it, but the BDT Editor is barfing when it sees something like

FOR LOOP = 1 TO 10

and also when it sees
GOTO NEXT
....
NEXT: do something here

It thinks I suppose that LOOP and NEXT shouldn't be used in these ways, and probably they shouldn't.
But they can.
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Wjhonson | 25 Apr 21:12 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


It doesn't like this syntax

EXECUTE CMD, SELECT. > L.UM
DONE = FALSE ; CNT = 0 ; THE.FILE = ''
EXECUTE CMD, SELECT. > L.UM
DONE = FALSE ; CNT = 0 ; THE.FILE = ''
''
CRT SPACE(7):"RECORDS PROCESSED":
LOOP
CRT SPACE(7):"RECORDS PROCESSED":
LOOP
LOOP
    READNEXT K.UM FROM L.UM ELSE DONE = TRUE
    READNEXT K.UM FROM L.UM ELSE DONE = TRUE

It claims that I don't need the comma after CMD
But if I remove it, it then complains that CMD is an "unexpected token"
It also complains that I never set the value of L.UM (on the readnext line) which of course I did
It seems like it doesn't understand this perfectly good syntax which the compiler happily makes work as I intended.

By the way, the point of selecting out to a list and then readnexting from that list, for those who are
virgins, is that two selects in one program, are almost always prevented from stepping on each other's toes.

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(Continue reading)

Doug Averch | 25 Apr 21:28 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

The reason for both of those errors is BDT is not using the real compiler
for error checking.  Those Rocket software engineers used ANTLR parse
generator to go through the UniBasic code. In my opinion a fatal flaw.

Regards,
Doug
www.u2logic.com
"Makers of XLr8Editor the BDT competitor"
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Wols Lists | 26 Apr 14:44 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

On 25/04/12 20:28, Doug Averch wrote:
> The reason for both of those errors is BDT is not using the real compiler
> for error checking.  Those Rocket software engineers used ANTLR parse
> generator to go through the UniBasic code. In my opinion a fatal flaw.
> 
That's interesting ... what do you think is wrong with using ANTLR?

I'm curious, because that's what was used for MaVerick, and from my own
playing with it, it's quite powerful. Jim Idle (of jBASE / Cache) has
done a lot of work with it ...

Cheers,
Wol
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Doug Averch | 26 Apr 15:52 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?

There is nothing wrong with ANTLR.  It is very powerful piece of software
if used for the right reason.  BDT is trying to simulate what would happen
when you compile the code while you are entering using ANTLR.

Simulations are just simulations.  For the life of BDT they, meaning
Rocket, will be pouring more resources into to get the simulation closer to
the compile.  Fix this error and this error and this error.  When does it
end?

That is why the competitor product, XLr8Editor, uses the actual Universe
and Unidata compiler to give you real errors not a facsimile.  We, at
U2logic, have not had to fix one error in the way you see errors as you
type because we are using the real McCoy.

Does this affect productivity?  You bet.  If you, the programmer, are
unsure if this is a real error or just a bug, then you are fighting with
the tool.  Any tool must allow you to write code without you questioning
what the heck it is doing.

Regards,
Doug
www.u2logic.com
"XLr8Editor still $49.00 per user per year"
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Wjhonson | 24 Apr 18:32 2012
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Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?


I can't seem to figure out, in BDT how to "open subroutines... with a single keystroke"
or is that only an XLr8Editor ability?  By the way do you have an evaluation version of that?

On another BDT note, I get this odd error in the log
eclipse.buildId=M20100211-1343
java.version=1.6.0_23
java.vendor=Sun Microsystems Inc.
BootLoader constants: OS=win32, ARCH=x86, WS=win32, NL=en_US
Framework arguments:  -product com.rs.u2.u2bdt.product -perspective com.rs.u2.u2bdt.ui.bdtPerspective
Command-line arguments:  -os win32 -ws win32 -arch x86 -product com.rs.u2.u2bdt.product -perspective
com.rs.u2.u2bdt.ui.bdtPerspective -data u2bdt_workspace

Warning
Tue Apr 24 09:25:35 PDT 2012
Cannot bind to an undefined command: plug-in='com.rs.u2.u2term', id='com.rs.u2.u2term.key_ctrl_e'

No idea what this error means, it doesn't seem to stop me from 

Did I mention yet that the BDT documentation that comes with Universe is incredibly awful?
If there is really a push to get this out there, wouldn't it be helpful to turn those ten pages (and twenty
pages of nonsense) into a good set of documentation on what it can do?

Doug how big is your documentation and can I view it for free without a copy of your program?

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Averch <daverch <at> gmail.com>
To: U2 Users List <u2-users <at> listserver.u2ug.org>
Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 12:52 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] BDT what's the big deal?
(Continue reading)


Gmane