FreeDOS debugging questions and other developer topics

Jim Hall | 30 Jun 01:28

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

Blair Campbell wrote:
> Why is there a horrible joke on www.freedos.org??
> FreeDOS is definitely NOT dead, and it IS close to 1.0.
>   

In short, not dead.

Man, I did a really stupid thing with the web site.  I've gotten sooooo 
much email on this that it's a lesson I won't soon forget.

The truth of the matter is that it really _was_ a horrible joke that 
backfired.  Here's what happened: Two weeks ago, I learned I needed to 
either move or shut down the server that runs (ran?) www.freedos.org.  
Last week, I set up a VHOST on freedos.sourceforge.net so that the SF 
site would respond to www.freedos.org traffic, and I had my DNS provider 
change the DNS entry for www.freedos.org to point to SourceForge's servers.

Within a day, the DNS change had propagated so the new www.freedos.org 
address resolved for me at work and at home.  So I assumed all was well, 
and I started seeing less traffic on the old server as DNS propagated to 
everyone else in the world.  After a week, traffic on the old 
www.freedos.org had pretty much stopped ... or so I thought.  Deciding 
to have a little "fun" (word used with tongue firmly in cheek) I posted 
a "FreeDOS is dead" message on the old site for the 1 or 2 people that 
were still accessing it.  As I said, horrible joke.  More on that, below.

Little did I realize that after a _week_, the DNS change hadn't 
propagated everywhere yet.  After I got the first few emails, I realized 
to my horror what had happened.  So I immediately put the old page 
back.  I guess the old server will be around for a little while longer

(Continue reading)

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James Tabor | 2 Jul 18:55

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

Jim Hall wrote:
> Blair Campbell wrote:
> 
>>Why is there a horrible joke on www.freedos.org??
>>FreeDOS is definitely NOT dead, and it IS close to 1.0.
>>  
> 
> 
> In short, not dead.
> 
Hi,
No! This project is not dead! B^|

Amazed!
James

8^D

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Imre Leber | 30 Jun 15:01

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

And here I was just putting in my 5 cents:

First let me state that I am very sorry that I have been unable to fully do my work for the FreeDOS project.

After Aitor posted the 1.0 TODO list it kind of took out the fun of this project.

When I started working on the project in 1999 there wasn't a whole lot that was actually doing anything. That
left a lot of possibility for creative work. After the list was anounced the work that needed to be done was
fixed. This didn't leave a lot to expect of the new roads the project could go on.

One can work on something for a while, fix bug after bug, but after some time all that became boring, so I burnt out.

That said the years spent working on the project I wouldn't trade for anything. Some of them qualify for the
best of my live.

According to the future of FreeDOS.

I believe the world is changing. There is a lot of growth in embedded systems and automation. This growth is
so large that it is likely that this kind of computing will overtake PC computing in importance. You can
already see this.

Things which were traditionaly confined to working with PC's are now more taken over by appliances. Game
consoles and printers that can directly print from a photo camera are but a few examples.

And also in automation a lot is happening in domotica systems and industrial automation. Especially this
can change the way we thing about software.

In the world where software is no longer about PC's, all OS's will have to adapt. The high modularity of
FreeDOS may wel put us in the winning position, being the only viable single purpose system in existence.

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Blair Campbell | 30 Jun 18:49

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

I think that 1.0 pre1 is good to start with, as we want to be able to
work out distribution bugs before a final release (we don't want to
repeat SR2).

--

-- 
Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change
color and fall from the trees.
   David Letterman (1947 - )

See ya

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Jim Hall | 30 Jun 19:45

FreeDOS "1.0"

Blair Campbell wrote:
> I think that 1.0 pre1 is good to start with, as we want to be able to
> work out distribution bugs before a final release (we don't want to
> repeat SR2).
>   

I'd rather we went for "1.0" instead of "1.0 pre1".  I agree we should 
verify the distribution, but I'd rather we not officially announce "1.0 
pre1".  We can make something of a "1.0 pre1" available somewhere, and 
announce ON THIS LIST that it's available for us to TEST, but not 
mention "1.0 pre1" on the web site.  The web site is our public face - 
as I have been painfully reminded.  

I think we should still have a "1.0" in the best shape we can make it by 
28 July.  That's a month away ... I think we can do it.

-jh

--

-- 
I'm sorry my president's an idiot. I didn't vote for him.

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Andreas Bollhalder | 30 Jun 19:12

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??


Hello all

And don't forget, that even the big companies like Dell and HP are
selling their computer with FreeDOS if you like it instead of Windows 

Andreas

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Michael Devore | 30 Jun 07:19

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

At 06:28 PM 6/29/2006 -0500, Jim Hall  wrote:
<snip>
>I don't _really_ think FreeDOS is dead.  But we have stalled.  There
>hasn't been any new development with FreeDOS in a long time.  The last
>news item on the web site was posted 8 June, but the last FreeDOS news
>item dates back to 16 May and 11 January.  Honestly, our lack of
>progress means I've started to lose interest.  After 12 years, there's
>also been lots of bickering on the project, and I kind of got tired
>dealing with it all.  Recently, we've had some flame wars which seems to
>have taken up all the bandwidth from people working on FreeDOS.  IMHO I
>don't think it's going anywhere.  I'd love for someone to pick up
>FreeDOS and keep it going, but I don't think it will be me.  I'll still
>continue to register the freedos.org domain, and I'll keep it current.
>That's the least I can do.
>
>I guess I sort of "snapped" when I sat down on 28 June and was about to
>write up a "Happy Birthday to FreeDOS" news item, talking about how far
>we've come, and how great it will be when FreeDOS "1.0" is released.

No, I'm sorry, this explanation doesn't quite do it to me.  You are the 
sole owner of the FreeDOS name.  You can declare version 1.0, or 2.0.5 or 
3.gizmo.woofdaddy at any time -- 1.0 release status doesn't and never did 
need a committee.  Just do it, give everybody on development a month's 
notice and roll out what's there.  FreeDOS certainly works good enough for 
1.0 release.  In fact, I think it's worked well enough for a 
while.  "Bugfree" won't ever happen.

I am certain that either Bernd or Blair would make the final 1.0 fileset 
for you to announce to the world.  And if I'm wrong, heck, for guaranteed 
1.0 release I'd do it myself.

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Arkady V.Belousov | 3 Jul 17:37

Unbeloved (was: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??)

Hi!

30-Июн-2006 00:19 _FreeDosStuff <at> devoresoftware.com (Michael Devore) wrote to
freedos-devel <at> lists.sourceforge.net:

MD> As far as the recent prolonged flame-wars, most have spun up out of Johnson
MD> Lam's misbehavior on the list, between being a one-way conduit of abuse and
MD> pushing his personally preferred non-open-source products like he was on
MD> sales commission.  You could have -- and I would argue in your capacity as
MD> an administrator you should have -- warned and then shut off his access to
MD> the list until he was ready to act like a minimally responsible
MD> poster.

     Michael, please, don't say so. In each community you may found
unbeloved persons - for example, me not liked by some participants of
OpenWatcom community. But unless we talk about completely senseless person,
which massively spams group, no one should be banned! And I disagree, that
Johnson was senseless person (especially he advocates not himself, but
another person).

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_______________________________________________
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Freedos-devel <at> lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

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Florian Xaver | 1 Jul 12:45

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??


> If I don't sound terribly sympathetic, well, I'm afraid it is because I'm 
> not.  It isn't because your web joke was stupid; my own scrapbook of 
> stupidity has much worse.  It's because it is past time for you stop 
> observing how things here have degenerated, and to instead take the 
> initiative to step forward and declare FreeDOS 1.0-ready.  I'd sure like to 
> see it, because even though I've invested only a small fraction of the time 
> in FreeDOS that you have, and a number of others here (and elsewhere) have, 
> it's still enough effort that I'd like to see it get out there and go.

I agree...

Bye
  Flo
--

-- 
Florian Xaver <http://www.flox.at.tf>

Dr-DOS  Wiki <http://www.drdos.org>
oZone-a GUI operating system for DOS,Linux,Win
SWORD-a nice GUI library for DOS/DJGPP
<http://www.flox.at.tf>

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Jim Hall | 30 Jun 14:34

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

Michael Devore wrote:
> No, I'm sorry, this explanation doesn't quite do it to me.  You are the 
> sole owner of the FreeDOS name.  You can declare version 1.0, or 2.0.5 or 
> 3.gizmo.woofdaddy at any time -- 1.0 release status doesn't and never did 
> need a committee.  Just do it, give everybody on development a month's 
> notice and roll out what's there.  FreeDOS certainly works good enough for 
> 1.0 release.  In fact, I think it's worked well enough for a 
> while.  "Bugfree" won't ever happen.
> [...]
> Up to you.
>   

Well put.  I'm stepping up to the plate then.  Blair reported that he's 
working on "FreeDOS 1.0-pre1".  Let's not make that a "pre-release" - 
let's actually release it as "1.0".  To be released 28 July 2006.  
Whatever isn't ready by then waits for the "post 1.0" distro.

Everyone: for the good of the community, PLEASE let this be the last 
email in the "Horrible joke" thread.  The thread needs to die.  Let's 
finally stop the wheel-spinning and make our "1.0" debut.

-jh

--

-- 
I'm sorry my president's an idiot. I didn't vote for him.

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Blair Campbell | 30 Jun 07:39

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

I'm preparing FreeDOS 1.0-pre1 as we speak.

On 6/29/06, Michael Devore <FreeDosStuff <at> devoresoftware.com> wrote:
> At 06:28 PM 6/29/2006 -0500, Jim Hall  wrote:
> <snip>
> >I don't _really_ think FreeDOS is dead.  But we have stalled.  There
> >hasn't been any new development with FreeDOS in a long time.  The last
> >news item on the web site was posted 8 June, but the last FreeDOS news
> >item dates back to 16 May and 11 January.  Honestly, our lack of
> >progress means I've started to lose interest.  After 12 years, there's
> >also been lots of bickering on the project, and I kind of got tired
> >dealing with it all.  Recently, we've had some flame wars which seems to
> >have taken up all the bandwidth from people working on FreeDOS.  IMHO I
> >don't think it's going anywhere.  I'd love for someone to pick up
> >FreeDOS and keep it going, but I don't think it will be me.  I'll still
> >continue to register the freedos.org domain, and I'll keep it current.
> >That's the least I can do.
> >
> >I guess I sort of "snapped" when I sat down on 28 June and was about to
> >write up a "Happy Birthday to FreeDOS" news item, talking about how far
> >we've come, and how great it will be when FreeDOS "1.0" is released.
>
> No, I'm sorry, this explanation doesn't quite do it to me.  You are the
> sole owner of the FreeDOS name.  You can declare version 1.0, or 2.0.5 or
> 3.gizmo.woofdaddy at any time -- 1.0 release status doesn't and never did
> need a committee.  Just do it, give everybody on development a month's
> notice and roll out what's there.  FreeDOS certainly works good enough for
> 1.0 release.  In fact, I think it's worked well enough for a
> while.  "Bugfree" won't ever happen.
>

(Continue reading)

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Florian Xaver | 1 Jul 12:46

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

Blair Campbell wrote:
> I'm preparing FreeDOS 1.0-pre1 as we speak.

Thank you very very much!

Bye
  Flo
--

-- 
Florian Xaver <http://www.flox.at.tf>

Dr-DOS  Wiki <http://www.drdos.org>
oZone-a GUI operating system for DOS,Linux,Win
SWORD-a nice GUI library for DOS/DJGPP
<http://www.flox.at.tf>

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Lyrical Nanoha | 30 Jun 13:01

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006, Blair Campbell wrote:

> I'm preparing FreeDOS 1.0-pre1 as we speak.

Excellent. </BURNS>

-uso.

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Lyrical Nanoha | 30 Jun 02:57

Re: Horrible Joke on FreeDOS.org??

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006, Jim Hall wrote:

> I don't _really_ think FreeDOS is dead.  But we have stalled.  There
> hasn't been any new development with FreeDOS in a long time.  The last
> news item on the web site was posted 8 June, but the last FreeDOS news
> item dates back to 16 May and 11 January.  Honestly, our lack of
> progress means I've started to lose interest.  After 12 years, there's
> also been lots of bickering on the project, and I kind of got tired
> dealing with it all.  Recently, we've had some flame wars which seems to
> have taken up all the bandwidth from people working on FreeDOS.  IMHO I
> don't think it's going anywhere.  I'd love for someone to pick up
> FreeDOS and keep it going, but I don't think it will be me.  I'll still
> continue to register the freedos.org domain, and I'll keep it current.
> That's the least I can do.

If I weren't so easily distracted, I'm a person of ideas and like to see 
action, I did GrODIN more to show that there was someone who still cared 
about FreeDOS and what could be done with it.

> I guess I sort of "snapped" when I sat down on 28 June and was about to
> write up a "Happy Birthday to FreeDOS" news item, talking about how far
> we've come, and how great it will be when FreeDOS "1.0" is released.
> We've been talking about a "1.0" release since Beta7 (2001) when we
> finally became stable.  The FreeDOS Beta9 Service Release 2 was
> announced December 2005 (with "1.0" promised before Christmas 2005) and
> instead FreeDOS Beta9 Service Release 2 update 2 was posted May 2006.
> It's as though we're afraid of the "1.0" label, sort of asymptotically
> approaching "1.0" but never really getting there.

Almost as if we think 1.0 will show that we've hit the end of the line?

(Continue reading)

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Jim Hall | 30 Jun 01:29

Why 1.0 (was: Horrible Joke)

Jim Hall wrote:
> [...]
> It's as though we're afraid of the "1.0" label, sort of asymptotically 
> approaching "1.0" but never really getting there.
>   

A lot of people probably wonder "why is '1.0' so important?"  I feel we 
need to get "1.0" out there to draw a line in the sand, that we're at 
least "1.0" quality.  We can do what MS-DOS could do.  Maybe we have a 
few bugs, but what "1.0" software doesn't have bugs - people expect it.  
But marking a "1.0" release means you can start to work on stuff after 
"1.0": I really hoped we would be able to break out of the mould of 
MS-DOS, and start to extend what DOS means.  FreeDOS-32 is along that 
direction.  Multitasking, flat memory, etc.  I'd also like to see more 
utilities to make it possible to replicate some of the advanced features 
we take for granted in modern operating systems, such as Linux.

I guess I'm impatient to get there.

-jh

--

-- 
I'm sorry my president's an idiot. I didn't vote for him.

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Florian Xaver | 1 Jul 12:42

Re: Why 1.0

Yes, I also think so - it *is* time for version 1.0.

Bye
  Flo

Jim Hall wrote:
> Jim Hall wrote:
>> [...]
>> It's as though we're afraid of the "1.0" label, sort of asymptotically 
>> approaching "1.0" but never really getting there.
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people probably wonder "why is '1.0' so important?"  I feel we 
> need to get "1.0" out there to draw a line in the sand, that we're at 
> least "1.0" quality.  We can do what MS-DOS could do.  Maybe we have a 
> few bugs, but what "1.0" software doesn't have bugs - people expect it.  
> But marking a "1.0" release means you can start to work on stuff after 
> "1.0": I really hoped we would be able to break out of the mould of 
> MS-DOS, and start to extend what DOS means.  FreeDOS-32 is along that 
> direction.  Multitasking, flat memory, etc.  I'd also like to see more 
> utilities to make it possible to replicate some of the advanced features 
> we take for granted in modern operating systems, such as Linux.
> 
> I guess I'm impatient to get there.
> 
> -jh
> 
>

(Continue reading)

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Alain M. | 30 Jun 03:35

Re: Why 1.0

Hi Jim,

I have been following FreeDOS for many years now and I am very sad that 
so many people are loosing interest when we are so close to having a 
working FreeDOS ...

I will start working more hands on. Mainly because I will start *using* 
FreeDOS. The only bug that I cannot be sure of fixing is the floppy 
change problem that Jeremy was fixing just before he disapeared...

Happy birthday FreeDOS :)

And thanks to you all,
Alain

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