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Bryce Harrington | 1 Aug 2005 06:21

Re: Help -> License

On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 01:37:44PM +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:
> > > Help, Modifying and Redistributing Inkscape.  :( must resist urge to kill
> >
> > Not my area - Peter, can you comment?
> 
> It is cruft, an unnecessary distraction.  I would really like to see this
> bit of marketing propoganda removed entirely from the user interface.  It
> will probably need to be mentioned in the documentation anyway but the
> license is important to Free Software Evangelists not to users who want to
> draw stuff.  Distributors should read the Licensing information, users
> shouldn't need to worry about it and windows users have already been
> required to agree to the License in the installer.  (And users do not need
> to agree to the GPL just to use the software, only if they wish to
> redistribute modified versions.)
> 
> This particularly hit a nerve because the GIMP harasses users with inane
> questions the first time you run it, including displaying the License.
> There are better places for evanglism than this.
> 
> And to have a menu label steal the promiment position at the end of the
> list and then to have a five word label is not at all aesthetically
> pleasing to put it politely.  (Sorry the more I do this the more
> hypersensative I get to these anomolies.)

I was also a bit curious when I saw this added to the help menu.  It
might be better to simply call it "License"?

I know that at least one user has asked for licensing terms for usage,
so it's not ONLY good for evangelism purposes.  Also, given that nearly
every application out there bugs the user with the licensing terms on
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Alan Horkan | 1 Aug 2005 17:29
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Re: Help -> License


On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Bryce Harrington wrote:

> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:21:14 -0700
> From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@...>
> To: Alan Horkan <horkana@...>
> Cc: Inkscape is a vector graphics editor
>     <inkscape-devel@...>
> Subject: Re: Help -> License
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 01:37:44PM +0100, Alan Horkan wrote:
> > > > Help, Modifying and Redistributing Inkscape.  :( must resist urge to kill
> > >
> > > Not my area - Peter, can you comment?
> >
> > It is cruft, an unnecessary distraction.  I would really like to see this
> > bit of marketing propoganda removed entirely from the user interface.  It
> > will probably need to be mentioned in the documentation anyway but the
> > license is important to Free Software Evangelists not to users who want to
> > draw stuff.  Distributors should read the Licensing information, users
> > shouldn't need to worry about it and windows users have already been
> > required to agree to the License in the installer.  (And users do not need
> > to agree to the GPL just to use the software, only if they wish to
> > redistribute modified versions.)

> > And to have a menu label steal the promiment position at the end of the
> > list and then to have a five word label is not at all aesthetically
> > pleasing to put it politely.  (Sorry the more I do this the more
> > hypersensative I get to these anomolies.)
>
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Peter Moulder | 1 Aug 2005 08:39
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Re: Re: Help -> License

On Sun, Jul 31, 2005 at 09:21:14PM -0700, Bryce Harrington wrote:

> > It is cruft, an unnecessary distraction.  I would really like to see this
> > bit of marketing propoganda removed entirely from the user interface.  It
> > will probably need to be mentioned in the documentation anyway but the
> > license is important to Free Software Evangelists not to users who want to
> > draw stuff.

Roughly speaking, any user of any piece of software has some interest in
copying that software -- whether copying to another machine, giving a
copy to a friend, installing at work, etc.

I've no problem with changing the menu structure; indeed, I think we
want a number of similar help items, some or all of which might be
grouped together in a submenu:

  - how to obtain the software (e.g. the most recent version, or getting for another platform);

  - who to contact for support

  - how to get the source code

  - how to improve translations

> > users shouldn't need to worry about it and windows users have
> > already been required to agree to the License in the installer.
> > (And users do not need to agree to the GPL just to use the software,
> > only if they wish to redistribute modified versions.)

I agree.  Offhand, I don't think the GPL should be displayed by the
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Alexandre Prokoudine | 4 Aug 2005 16:25
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Re: Re: Help -> License

On 8/1/05, Peter Moulder <Peter.Moulder@...> wrote:

> > > users shouldn't need to worry about it and windows users have
> > > already been required to agree to the License in the installer.
> > > (And users do not need to agree to the GPL just to use the software,
> > > only if they wish to redistribute modified versions.)
> 
> I agree.  Offhand, I don't think the GPL should be displayed by the
> installer at all.

The fact that most users don't read it doesn't mean that _all_ of the
users should have no idea about their rights and responsibilities a
propos software _before_ they install this particular software.

Alexandre

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Alan Horkan | 1 Aug 2005 20:02
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Re: Re: Help -> License


> > > It is cruft, an unnecessary distraction.  I would really like to see this
> > > bit of marketing propoganda removed entirely from the user interface.  It
> > > will probably need to be mentioned in the documentation anyway but the
> > > license is important to Free Software Evangelists not to users who want to
> > > draw stuff.

> > I was also a bit curious when I saw this added to the help menu.  It
> > might be better to simply call it "License"?
>
> I don't think so.  The word has unfortunately become understood in the
> context of software not as a `license' (granting of permission) but as a
> contract that takes away freedom.
>
> "Copying this software" would be OK though.

Menu items need to be terse and succint, peferably one word so "Copying
this software" would not be OK.  "License" may not be perfect but it is by
far the most suitable suggestion so far.

- Alan

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Bob Jamison | 1 Aug 2005 06:37
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Re: Re: Help -> License

Bryce Harrington wrote:

>
>I was also a bit curious when I saw this added to the help menu.  It
>might be better to simply call it "License"?
>
>I know that at least one user has asked for licensing terms for usage,
>so it's not ONLY good for evangelism purposes.  Also, given that nearly
>every application out there bugs the user with the licensing terms on
>installation or at start up, I think having it just be a link somewhere
>in one of the menus is not too obtrusive.
>
>On the other hand, I do see a point that from a user perspective it's
>probably not a very important link.  Perhaps if the end of the list is a
>prominent position, it could move to mid-list.
>
>Bryce
>  
>

I have mentioned this before a couple of times recently. But I think 
that displaying
the GPL and having someone "click thru" it, is a very cool thing. It 
lets the users
feel like they are experiencing something that is a bit subversive. And 
with the "click," it
allows them to be partisans in the Open Source movement.

I'm not talking about politics or cynicism. I'm just thinking about the 
"cool" factor
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Bryce Harrington | 1 Aug 2005 07:17

Re: Re: Help -> License

On Sun, Jul 31, 2005 at 11:37:03PM -0500, Bob Jamison wrote:
> I have mentioned this before a couple of times recently. But I think
> that displaying the GPL and having someone "click thru" it, is a very
> cool thing. It lets the users feel like they are experiencing
> something that is a bit subversive. And with the "click," it allows
> them to be partisans in the Open Source movement.

Hmm, I don't know, I think this might be one of those things that's cool
the first time you see it, and then just annoying every time after.  ;-)

Don't get me wrong, I am most clearly a strong open source fanatic and
quite driven to help encourage others to learn more about free
software.  I just don't think that popping up a copy of the GPL is going
to have that effect; I would imagine people would just close that
without reading it.  ;-)

Bryce

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Nicu Buculei | 1 Aug 2005 08:13

Re: Re: Help -> License

Bryce Harrington wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2005 at 11:37:03PM -0500, Bob Jamison wrote:
> 
>>I have mentioned this before a couple of times recently. But I think
>>that displaying the GPL and having someone "click thru" it, is a very
>>cool thing. It lets the users feel like they are experiencing
>>something that is a bit subversive. And with the "click," it allows
>>them to be partisans in the Open Source movement.
> 
> 
> Hmm, I don't know, I think this might be one of those things that's cool
> the first time you see it, and then just annoying every time after.  ;-)
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am most clearly a strong open source fanatic and
> quite driven to help encourage others to learn more about free
> software.  I just don't think that popping up a copy of the GPL is going
> to have that effect; I would imagine people would just close that
> without reading it.  ;-)

I agree, nobody will read it just as nobody read the EULA which is shown 
by various Microsoft applications in this way.

--

-- 
nicu

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