Sebastian Kuegler | 17 Jan 01:14
Picon
Gravatar

[24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

So I went through the recent emails regarding the release schedule. Since the 
discussion has fallen silent, I think pretty much everything has been said. 
My impression from re-reading all those emails is that most people would like 
to adopt a 6 months schedule, and that July would be a good time for 4.1.

I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to release 
in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on.

Now it'd be time for people with *strong* objections to give them, otherwise, 
we should start communicating the new schedule.

If you decide to object, please come up with a counter-proposal as to not 
block KDE from moving on. If the proposal gets accepted, I'm happy to work 
out details, based on the discussion following Matt's proposal and Kevin's 
insights.
--

-- 
sebas

 http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org |  GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 
Dirk Mueller | 28 Jan 10:31
Picon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > So I went through the recent emails regarding the release schedule. Since > the discussion has fallen silent, I think pretty much everything has been > said. My impression from re-reading all those emails is that most people > would like to adopt a 6 months schedule, and that July would be a good time > for 4.1.
Grrr, again a 24h mail during my vacation ;) I would like to adopt a 6 month schedule, aligned to March/September, which means that 4.1 should be finished end of august. Greetings, Dirk
Sebastian Kuegler | 18 Jan 15:31
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 01:14:28 Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > So I went through the recent emails regarding the release schedule. Since > the discussion has fallen silent, I think pretty much everything has been > said. My impression from re-reading all those emails is that most people > would like to adopt a 6 months schedule, and that July would be a good time > for 4.1. > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on. > > Now it'd be time for people with *strong* objections to give them, > otherwise, we should start communicating the new schedule. > > If you decide to object, please come up with a counter-proposal as to not > block KDE from moving on. If the proposal gets accepted, I'm happy to work > out details, based on the discussion following Matt's proposal and Kevin's > insights.
I've chatted with Matt on IRC, and the concerns have been addressed. That means that we've settled on the above (rough) proposal. As I said, I'll work out those details as soon as I find some spare minutes and we can apply some final tweaking to it. We will go ahead and tell people what we're planning. Thanks everybody for the input, support, criticism. -- -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
Allen Winter | 17 Jan 19:22
Picon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Wednesday 16 January 2008 19:14:28 Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > So I went through the recent emails regarding the release schedule. Since > the discussion has fallen silent, I think pretty much everything has been > said. My impression from re-reading all those emails is that most people > would like to adopt a 6 months schedule, and that July would be a good time > for 4.1. > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on. > > Now it'd be time for people with *strong* objections to give them, > otherwise, we should start communicating the new schedule. > > If you decide to object, please come up with a counter-proposal as to not > block KDE from moving on. If the proposal gets accepted, I'm happy to work > out details, based on the discussion following Matt's proposal and Kevin's > insights.
Sebas, Just make sure we have some wiggle-room. We might have to extend a month or two.. we really don't know the Qt 4.4.x schedule, etc.
Sebastian Kuegler | 17 Jan 23:07
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 19:22:42 Allen Winter wrote: > Just make sure we have some wiggle-room.  We might have to extend a month > or two.. we really don't know the Qt 4.4.x schedule, etc.
We *do* know the Qt 4.4 release schedule (they are doing time-based, after all ;-)). I've just checked with Thiago (sitting 2.5m next to me). We can count on Qt 4.4 to be out on 31st March, targeted is mid-March. Do you still think we need more wiggle-room? -- -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
Allen Winter | 18 Jan 01:37
Picon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 17:07:52 Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > On Thursday 17 January 2008 19:22:42 Allen Winter wrote: > > Just make sure we have some wiggle-room.  We might have to extend a month > > or two.. we really don't know the Qt 4.4.x schedule, etc. > > We *do* know the Qt 4.4 release schedule (they are doing time-based, after > all ;-)). > > I've just checked with Thiago (sitting 2.5m next to me). We can count on Qt > 4.4 to be out on 31st March, targeted is mid-March. > > Do you still think we need more wiggle-room?
I just chatted with thiago. As a worst case scenario we should expect Qt 4.4.2 by end of July. I'd feel better if we had at least 2 Qt bugfixes out in the wild before we released 4.1. So, the timeframe you suggest should work with respect to Qt 4.4. IOW: I'm not strongly objecting _______________________________________________ release-team mailing list release-team <at> kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Cornelius Schumacher | 17 Jan 13:22
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 01:14, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on.
Given the fuzz which was made around this topic when Mark Shuttleworth asked us to do it, how do you intent to communicate it? -- -- Cornelius Schumacher <schumacher@...>
Sebastian Kuegler | 17 Jan 17:01
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 13:22:45 Cornelius Schumacher wrote: > On Thursday 17 January 2008 01:14, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to > > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on. > > Given the fuzz which was made around this topic when Mark Shuttleworth > asked us to do it, how do you intent to communicate it?
I don't really see how Mark Shuttleworth has influence on that (other than stating the obvious, that distros would like us to have time-based releases). The communication strategy would be rather simple: - We're moving *back* to time-based releases - We'll be releasing once every six months, starting in July - The next release will contains X, Y and Z Reasoning: - It supports our development model and cycle - It makes us more predictable for our partners ('own people', downstream, upstream) Very roughly, of course. -- -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
Kevin Ottens | 17 Jan 17:47
Picon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2008, Sebastian Kuegler a écrit :

> The communication strategy would be rather simple: > > - We're moving *back* to time-based releases
Which would be perfect if we really applied such a release cycle before... That's not the case. We were making an plan based on what would make sense for the features we wanted in the release. There was no such "we'll release every X months" thing... Which makes a big difference IMO. Regards. -- -- Kévin 'ervin' Ottens, http://ervin.ipsquad.net "Ni le maître sans disciple, Ni le disciple sans maître, Ne font reculer l'ignorance."
Cornelius Schumacher | 17 Jan 17:17
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 17:01, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > On Thursday 17 January 2008 13:22:45 Cornelius Schumacher wrote: > > On Thursday 17 January 2008 01:14, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to > > > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on. > > > > Given the fuzz which was made around this topic when Mark Shuttleworth > > asked us to do it, how do you intent to communicate it? > > I don't really see how Mark Shuttleworth has influence on that (other than > stating the obvious, that distros would like us to have time-based > releases).
Mark doesn't really have influence on that, but if we announce a six-month release cycle, everybody who has followed the discussion around Mark's aKademy talk will say "Oh, now they are doing what Mark told them." Just wanting to say, that we should handle the communication with some care, if we do that. -- -- Cornelius Schumacher <schumacher@...>
Tom Albers | 17 Jan 18:24
Picon
Favicon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Op Thursday 17 January 2008 17:17 schreef u:

> Mark doesn't really have influence on that, but if we announce a six-month > release cycle, everybody who has followed the discussion around Mark's > aKademy talk will say "Oh, now they are doing what Mark told them."
It's not that he demanded it, he suggested it to us. In the planning for the future releases of KDE we have considered his idea - which some of us might have had before he suggested it - and it seems sensible to try. Is there anything wrong with that? Credits where they belong. But we could have easily decided otherwise, he / ubuntu can not demand it. Toma
Stephan Kulow | 17 Jan 17:24
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Am Donnerstag 17 Januar 2008 schrieb Cornelius Schumacher:

> On Thursday 17 January 2008 17:01, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > > On Thursday 17 January 2008 13:22:45 Cornelius Schumacher wrote: > > > On Thursday 17 January 2008 01:14, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > > > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to > > > > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on. > > > > > > Given the fuzz which was made around this topic when Mark Shuttleworth > > > asked us to do it, how do you intent to communicate it? > > > > I don't really see how Mark Shuttleworth has influence on that (other > > than stating the obvious, that distros would like us to have time-based > > releases). > > Mark doesn't really have influence on that, but if we announce a six-month > release cycle, everybody who has followed the discussion around Mark's > aKademy talk will say "Oh, now they are doing what Mark told them." > > Just wanting to say, that we should handle the communication with some > care, if we do that.
Does it help the case if we go to a "sixplus" months release cycle? :) Greetings, Stephan
Stephan Kulow | 17 Jan 13:33
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Am Donnerstag 17 Januar 2008 schrieb Cornelius Schumacher:

> On Thursday 17 January 2008 01:14, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to > > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on. > > Given the fuzz which was made around this topic when Mark Shuttleworth > asked us to do it, how do you intent to communicate it?
I myself (and I'm talking as KDE user) would prefer a working KDE as soon as possible than perfectly aligned with as many distris as possible. Greetings, Stephan
Tom Albers | 17 Jan 09:55
Picon
Favicon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Op donderdag 17 januari 2008 01:14 schreef u:

> So I went through the recent emails regarding the release schedule. Since the > discussion has fallen silent, I think pretty much everything has been said. > My impression from re-reading all those emails is that most people would like > to adopt a 6 months schedule, and that July would be a good time for 4.1.
Hi, Thanks for the summary. July and Janauri aligns us with one month gap with Gnome, which I think will give good reasons for distro's to align around that - if they want to. One month gap is good, is it gives room for the publicity team and don't steel momentum from eachother. So +1 from me. Tom Albers
Matt Rogers | 17 Jan 05:38
Picon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 01:14:28AM +0100, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > So I went through the recent emails regarding the release schedule. Since the > discussion has fallen silent, I think pretty much everything has been said. > My impression from re-reading all those emails is that most people would like > to adopt a 6 months schedule, and that July would be a good time for 4.1. > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to release > in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on. > > Now it'd be time for people with *strong* objections to give them, otherwise, > we should start communicating the new schedule. > > If you decide to object, please come up with a counter-proposal as to not > block KDE from moving on. If the proposal gets accepted, I'm happy to work > out details, based on the discussion following Matt's proposal and Kevin's > insights. > --
I object, actually. Considering the current release schedules of the various distros, I actually think a release in August or September would be better for KDE 4.1. Why? The consensus seemed to be that we wanted to align our release cycle to be closer to downstream's release cycle. If we want to do that, I think it should be done sooner rather than later. Releasing in July, IMHO, doesn't do much to help unless we want distros to ship a x.y.z release where z is greater than 0. And then if we want the distros to ship a x.y.0 release, then we'd have to push KDE 4.2 closer to 9 months out from KDE 4.1. I'm in the process of coming up with a schedule with a release in late August, which should give us enough wiggle room to push it into September if needed. It should be done in enough time so that it can be somewhat discussed before Aaron's keynote on Friday. ;) -- Matt
Olivier Goffart | 17 Jan 20:09
Picon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2008, Matt Rogers a écrit :
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 01:14:28AM +0100, Sebastian Kuegler wrote:
> > So I went through the recent emails regarding the release schedule. Since
> > the discussion has fallen silent, I think pretty much everything has been
> > said. My impression from re-reading all those emails is that most people
> > would like to adopt a 6 months schedule, and that July would be a good
> > time for 4.1.
> >
> > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to
> > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on.

I have nothing against July for KDE 4.1

But i don't see the need to have a fix "6 months release schedule", and so i 
would not plan KDE 4.2 yet.
I think that after each versions we should reconsider the date of the next 
release. Considering

- Distribution need and release date
- Releases of Qt and others depedences
- Planed features.
- Feedback from the previous and the current version.
- ....

> > If you decide to object, please come up with a counter-proposal as to not
> > block KDE from moving on. 

So basically i propose to not schedule KDE 4.2 yet.

> I object, actually. Considering the current release schedules of the
> various distros, I actually think a release in August or September would
> be better for KDE 4.1.
>
> [...] And then if we want the distros to ship a x.y.0

Why would we or distro want that?
It's a fact that x.y.0 releases have more bugs. So the default installed 
system should probably better if z>=1

Also, we don't need to aling on distro. Distro should align on us if they 
want. :-)

--

-- 
Olivier
Sebastian Kuegler | 17 Jan 10:38
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 05:38:29 Matt Rogers wrote: > I object, actually. Considering the current release schedules of the > various distros, I actually think a release in August or September would > be better for KDE 4.1.
Given that the replies should be addressing the point you raised, are you still objecting? -- -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
Sebastian Kuegler | 17 Jan 10:19
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 05:38:29 Matt Rogers wrote: > I'm in the process of coming up with a schedule with a release in late > August, which should give us enough wiggle room to push it into > September if needed. It should be done in enough time so that it can be > somewhat discussed before Aaron's keynote on Friday. ;)
I thought about this as well, but: - Mandriva says July would be perfect (they're shipping KDE by default, so they're pretty important) - It would just miss the coming openSUSE release, but align pretty well with their follow-ups (if I understand coolo correctly) - It's before Ubuntu's feature freeze (which is, I think in August, and aligns well in the future due to the same rhythm) - We'll be missing Debian Lenny in any case (even with 4.0). I didn't really find out how other distros release exactly (more input data welcome!). I find the above pretty good arguments for July, and not later. (Also considering that we don't want to wait too long with 4.1.) -- -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
Ana Guerrero | 17 Jan 13:25
Picon
Favicon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 10:19:50AM +0100, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > On Thursday 17 January 2008 05:38:29 Matt Rogers wrote: > > I'm in the process of coming up with a schedule with a release in late > > August, which should give us enough wiggle room to push it into > > September if needed. It should be done in enough time so that it can be > > somewhat discussed before Aaron's keynote on Friday. ;) > > I thought about this as well, but: > > - Mandriva says July would be perfect (they're shipping KDE by default, so > they're pretty important) > - It would just miss the coming openSUSE release, but align pretty well with > their follow-ups (if I understand coolo correctly) > - It's before Ubuntu's feature freeze (which is, I think in August, and aligns > well in the future due to the same rhythm) > - We'll be missing Debian Lenny in any case (even with 4.0). >
FWIW, with a 4.1 release in May it could make Lenny, but I'm afraid that is too early :) Ana
Stephan Kulow | 17 Jan 08:00
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Am Donnerstag 17 Januar 2008 schrieb Matt Rogers:

> On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 01:14:28AM +0100, Sebastian Kuegler wrote: > > So I went through the recent emails regarding the release schedule. Since > > the discussion has fallen silent, I think pretty much everything has been > > said. My impression from re-reading all those emails is that most people > > would like to adopt a 6 months schedule, and that July would be a good > > time for 4.1. > > > > I therefore propose to adopt a 6 months release schedule, starting to > > release in July with 4.1, then in January 2009 4.2, and so on. > > > > Now it'd be time for people with *strong* objections to give them, > > otherwise, we should start communicating the new schedule. > > > > If you decide to object, please come up with a counter-proposal as to not > > block KDE from moving on. If the proposal gets accepted, I'm happy to > > work out details, based on the discussion following Matt's proposal and > > Kevin's insights. > > -- > > I object, actually. Considering the current release schedules of the > various distros, I actually think a release in August or September would > be better for KDE 4.1. >
Just in case you care: openSUSE would have a problem with September Greetings, Stephan
Kevin Ottens | 17 Jan 08:07
Picon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2008, Stephan Kulow a écrit :

> Just in case you care: openSUSE would have a problem with September
Doesn't it have a problem with July also? Well, at least 11.0 is announced for June 19, but maybe it's not set in stone. Regards. -- -- Kévin 'ervin' Ottens, http://ervin.ipsquad.net "Ni le maître sans disciple, Ni le disciple sans maître, Ne font reculer l'ignorance."
Stephan Kulow | 17 Jan 09:12
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July

Am Donnerstag 17 Januar 2008 schrieb Kevin Ottens:

> Le jeudi 17 janvier 2008, Stephan Kulow a écrit : > > Just in case you care: openSUSE would have a problem with September > > Doesn't it have a problem with July also? > Well, at least 11.0 is announced for June 19, but maybe it's not set in > stone.
No, that is. But with a release in mid june and a 4.1 in mid july we could offer a prerelease and then users can easily update to the final online. With a september release this would mean, the june SVN/release would be too far away from the final to make this a valid option. And a september .0 release would make it also harder to integrate it then into the next release - .0 releases are evil and surely not what you want to have in unless you're fond of fixing all the issues yourself (speaking from a distribution point of view). Greetings, Stephan _______________________________________________ release-team mailing list release-team <at> kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Richard Moore | 17 Jan 01:27
Picon

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On 1/17/08, Sebastian Kuegler <sebas@...> wrote: > Now it'd be time for people with *strong* objections to give them, otherwise, > we should start communicating the new schedule.
Not an objection, but we need to consider that a number of things in plasma are going to need Qt 4.4 to meet their objectives for 4.1. We need to ensure there's a big enough gap to fix any issues discovered in the new Qt release before we freeze things. Can anyone from TT comment on when we're likely to see 4.4 released? Cheers Rich.
Sebastian Kuegler | 17 Jan 03:09
Picon
Gravatar

Re: [24h] 6 months release schedule, 4.1 in July


On Thursday 17 January 2008 01:27:48 Richard Moore wrote: > On 1/17/08, Sebastian Kuegler <sebas@...> wrote: > > Now it'd be time for people with *strong* objections to give them, > > otherwise, we should start communicating the new schedule. > > Not an objection, but we need to consider that a number of things in > plasma are going to need Qt 4.4 to meet their objectives for 4.1. We > need to ensure there's a big enough gap to fix any issues discovered > in the new Qt release before we freeze things. Can anyone from TT > comment on when we're likely to see 4.4 released?
Thiago said it's scheduled for the end of Q1, that *should* give us enough time to fix any issues that might crop up. Also, as Qt 4.4 is pretty important for plasma (widgets-on-canvas, mainly), some developers are already working with 4.4. I don't expect issues there. -- -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9

Gmane