Russel Winder | 4 Jul 09:10

[groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything

Has anyone discovered a way of getting anything other than monospace
fonts for the code editor in IntelliJ IDEA?  Eclipse and NetBeans allow
access to all the fonts you have available, but IntelliJ IDEA appears to
fascistically dictate that you will use a monospace font, even though
the concept is complete anathema to any right thinking person.

I guess I need to write a bug report to JetBrains to add to all the
others I have regarding errors in their adherence to the Gnome theme.
Is there a special Groovy place for sending stuff so that they will
actually listen?

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====================================================
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Luke Daley | 4 Jul 09:27

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything


On 04/07/2008, at 5:15 PM, Russel Winder wrote:

> the concept is complete anathema to any right thinking person.

A little subjective and strong no?

LD.

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Russel Winder | 4 Jul 09:53

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything

On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 17:27 +1000, Luke Daley wrote:
> On 04/07/2008, at 5:15 PM, Russel Winder wrote:
> 
> > the concept is complete anathema to any right thinking person.
> 
> A little subjective and strong no?

Yes and no.  Clearly I overstated the case for effect (which it has had
so that is success :-) However, monospace fonts are a hang over from an
olden age of typewriters or more recently dumb terminals.  I find it
irritating that something that was a hack gets treated as a necessity
long after the need for the hack has gone.   What irritates more is the
fascist imposition of constraint in a situation where constraint is
unnecessary.

On the other hand, Guillaume pointed out that I should actually look at
the dialogue box first.
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====================================================
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Mark Derricutt | 4 Jul 10:14

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything

Out of curiosity - what font are you using?  I've yet to find any variable width font I really like for coding with (thou I've not looked that hard really - finding the perfect mono-spaced font is work enough).

Mark

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Russel Winder <russel.winder-DsImGR7CbQu8rjiVs5Nzzw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
so that is success :-) However, monospace fonts are a hang over from an
olden age of typewriters or more recently dumb terminals.  I find it

--
"It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." -- Bill Harlan
Russel Winder | 4 Jul 10:19

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything

On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 20:14 +1200, Mark Derricutt wrote:
> Out of curiosity - what font are you using?  I've yet to find any
> variable width font I really like for coding with (thou I've not
> looked that hard really - finding the perfect mono-spaced font is work
> enough).

I am currently using Ocean Sans MT Book.  Although it is a print font
not a screen font, Gnome renders it very well on all my machines.

--

-- 
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                 Partner

Concertant LLP                   t: +44 20 7585 2200, +44 20 7193 9203
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Martin C. Martin | 4 Jul 13:56

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything


Russel Winder wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 20:14 +1200, Mark Derricutt wrote:
>> Out of curiosity - what font are you using?  I've yet to find any
>> variable width font I really like for coding with (thou I've not
>> looked that hard really - finding the perfect mono-spaced font is work
>> enough).
> 
> I am currently using Ocean Sans MT Book.  Although it is a print font
> not a screen font, Gnome renders it very well on all my machines.

Serif fonts are generally considered a little easier to read, the serifs 
help distinguish the letters visually, freeing up more of your brain for 
coding.  :)

I'm not sure how big of a difference it is, but I don't know of any 
compelling argument against serif fonts.

Best,
Martin

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Russel Winder | 4 Jul 14:15

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything

On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 07:56 -0400, Martin C. Martin wrote:

> Serif fonts are generally considered a little easier to read, the serifs 
> help distinguish the letters visually, freeing up more of your brain for 
> coding.  :)

Actually it depends which research you look at regarding reading and
readability.   Of course facts often get hidden by opinion -- witness
all the issues surrounding the fonts that got labelled "grotesque".

Certainly it is the dogma that serif fonts be used for body text of
documents with sans serif only used for headings or display text because
serif fonts are easier to read.  However this dogma is founded very much
a print media and anyway has been subject to doubt with the arrival of
the humanist fonts.

> I'm not sure how big of a difference it is, but I don't know of any 
> compelling argument against serif fonts.

The issue here is that screen rendering is very different to print
rendering, not to mention that displays are light generative and not
light reflective as paper is, and this makes some difference.  For
screen usage sans serif has come much more into its own for text since
the fiddly little serifs don't generally render well at 92dpi or
whatever the dot pitch of your screen is equivalent to.  Of course this
is where the humanist fonts come in, they are in the grey area between
serif and sans serif. 

--

-- 
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                 Partner

Concertant LLP                   t: +44 20 7585 2200, +44 20 7193 9203
41 Buckmaster Road,              f: +44 8700 516 084
London SW11 1EN, UK.             m: +44 7770 465 077
Martin C. Martin | 4 Jul 14:43

[groovy-dev] OT: font readability (was: Fonts determine everything)

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that research.  Do you have any 
references I could read?  I'd love to learn more.

Best,
Martin

Russel Winder wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 07:56 -0400, Martin C. Martin wrote:
> 
>> Serif fonts are generally considered a little easier to read, the serifs 
>> help distinguish the letters visually, freeing up more of your brain for 
>> coding.  :)
> 
> Actually it depends which research you look at regarding reading and
> readability.   Of course facts often get hidden by opinion -- witness
> all the issues surrounding the fonts that got labelled "grotesque".
> 
> Certainly it is the dogma that serif fonts be used for body text of
> documents with sans serif only used for headings or display text because
> serif fonts are easier to read.  However this dogma is founded very much
> a print media and anyway has been subject to doubt with the arrival of
> the humanist fonts.
> 
>> I'm not sure how big of a difference it is, but I don't know of any 
>> compelling argument against serif fonts.
> 
> The issue here is that screen rendering is very different to print
> rendering, not to mention that displays are light generative and not
> light reflective as paper is, and this makes some difference.  For
> screen usage sans serif has come much more into its own for text since
> the fiddly little serifs don't generally render well at 92dpi or
> whatever the dot pitch of your screen is equivalent to.  Of course this
> is where the humanist fonts come in, they are in the grey area between
> serif and sans serif. 
> 

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Martin C. Martin | 4 Jul 13:54

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything

I've used a slightly modified version of Georgia for a long time. 
Georgia is pretty dense, i.e. you get more characters in a given number 
of pixels than most other fonts.  All I had to do was add a slash 
through the zero, and modify the lower case "l" to look less like the 
number 1.  I just downloaded some freeware/shareware font editor; the 
changes were trivial.

Mark Derricutt wrote:
> Out of curiosity - what font are you using?  I've yet to find any 
> variable width font I really like for coding with (thou I've not looked 
> that hard really - finding the perfect mono-spaced font is work enough).
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Russel Winder 
> <russel.winder@...
<mailto:russel.winder@...>> wrote:
> 
>     so that is success :-) However, monospace fonts are a hang over from an
>     olden age of typewriters or more recently dumb terminals.  I find it
> 
> 
> -- 
> "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." 
> -- Bill Harlan

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Guillaume Laforge | 4 Jul 09:33

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything

I haven't double checked as I haven't launched IDEA yet, but I recall
there's a checkbox telling your limitate to monospace, but if you
uncheck it, you can use any font.

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Russel Winder
<russel.winder@...> wrote:
> Has anyone discovered a way of getting anything other than monospace
> fonts for the code editor in IntelliJ IDEA?  Eclipse and NetBeans allow
> access to all the fonts you have available, but IntelliJ IDEA appears to
> fascistically dictate that you will use a monospace font, even though
> the concept is complete anathema to any right thinking person.
>
> I guess I need to write a bug report to JetBrains to add to all the
> others I have regarding errors in their adherence to the Gnome theme.
> Is there a special Groovy place for sending stuff so that they will
> actually listen?
>
> --
> Russel.
> ====================================================
> Dr Russel Winder                 Partner
>
> Concertant LLP                   t: +44 20 7585 2200, +44 20 7193 9203
> 41 Buckmaster Road,              f: +44 8700 516 084
> London SW11 1EN, UK.             m: +44 7770 465 077
>

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Guillaume Laforge
Groovy Project Manager
G2One, Inc. Vice-President Technology
http://www.g2one.com

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Russel Winder | 4 Jul 09:52

Re: [groovy-dev] Fonts determine everything

On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 09:33 +0200, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
> I haven't double checked as I haven't launched IDEA yet, but I recall
> there's a checkbox telling your limitate to monospace, but if you
> uncheck it, you can use any font.

Excellent, thanks.  Stupid me, frustration got in the way of actually
looking properly at the dialog.  I still don't see why the constraint to
monospace though.

--

-- 
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                 Partner

Concertant LLP                   t: +44 20 7585 2200, +44 20 7193 9203
41 Buckmaster Road,              f: +44 8700 516 084
London SW11 1EN, UK.             m: +44 7770 465 077

Gmane