niket | 18 Oct 20:19 2012
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Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

I am a novice in Haskell but I would love to see the gurus out here teaching Haskell on MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity.


Dr Martin Odersky is doing it for Scala here: https://www.coursera.org/course/progfun

I would love to see Haskell growing on such new platforms!

Regards,
Niket
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Thiago Negri | 18 Oct 20:37 2012
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Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

+1

2012/10/18 niket <niketkumar <at> gmail.com>:
> I would love to see Haskell growing on such new platforms!
Brent Yorgey | 23 Oct 16:02 2012

Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:49:08PM +0530, niket wrote:
> I am a novice in Haskell but I would love to see the gurus out here
> teaching Haskell on MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity.
> 
> Dr Martin Odersky is doing it for Scala here:
> https://www.coursera.org/course/progfun
> 
> I would love to see Haskell growing on such new platforms!

Just as a counterpoint, putting together a MOOC is a *ton* of work,
with (in my opinion) not much benefit for a topic like Haskell where
it is already possible to access lots of quality instructional
materials online.  I would rather see Haskell gurus put their time and
effort into producing more awesome code (or into curating existing
instructional materials).

Just my 2c.

-Brent
Eric Rasmussen | 24 Oct 22:06 2012
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Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

I can see that the required effort would be prohibitive, but after thinking about this some more I do think there are a couple of nice advantages:

1) Quizzes and graded assignments offer some structure to self study, and having some form of feedback/validation when you first get started is helpful. I learned a lot of Haskell by making up my own assignments, but not everyone is willing to put that kind of time into it.

2) I know several developers with great engineering skills who are taking the Scala course because it gives them a structured way to get into it and have something to show for the time on their resume. They're busy professionals whose skills and expertise in large projects could really benefit the Haskell community, but I've had no luck convincing them that it's worth the time spent researching and learning on their own.

Scala already has some appeal for them if they have to work with java code or have spent years with object oriented programming, so I think the more the Haskell community can do to bring them here, the better.

Whether or not it's feasible to create the course is another issue. I don't have an academic background or any academic affiliations to get the ball rolling, but if anyone wants to make a course I'll volunteer to help proof materials, test quizzes and assignments, and work on utilities to submit and grade assignments.

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Brent Yorgey <byorgey <at> seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:49:08PM +0530, niket wrote:
> I am a novice in Haskell but I would love to see the gurus out here
> teaching Haskell on MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity.
>
> Dr Martin Odersky is doing it for Scala here:
> https://www.coursera.org/course/progfun
>
> I would love to see Haskell growing on such new platforms!

Just as a counterpoint, putting together a MOOC is a *ton* of work,
with (in my opinion) not much benefit for a topic like Haskell where
it is already possible to access lots of quality instructional
materials online.  I would rather see Haskell gurus put their time and
effort into producing more awesome code (or into curating existing
instructional materials).

Just my 2c.

-Brent

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David McBride | 24 Oct 22:37 2012
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Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

I'm taking it primarily because it is taught by the guy who made the language.  I mean how cool is that?  He is very smart and certainly blows any other lecturer I've ever had out of the water.  If SPJ were doing a haskell course I'd sign up for that too in a heart beat.

There's also a slim possibility that coursera will become something industry people can look at to find people with skills they need.  A nice perk if it works out, for something I'm doing for fun anyways.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Eric Rasmussen <ericrasmussen <at> gmail.com> wrote:
I can see that the required effort would be prohibitive, but after thinking about this some more I do think there are a couple of nice advantages:

1) Quizzes and graded assignments offer some structure to self study, and having some form of feedback/validation when you first get started is helpful. I learned a lot of Haskell by making up my own assignments, but not everyone is willing to put that kind of time into it.

2) I know several developers with great engineering skills who are taking the Scala course because it gives them a structured way to get into it and have something to show for the time on their resume. They're busy professionals whose skills and expertise in large projects could really benefit the Haskell community, but I've had no luck convincing them that it's worth the time spent researching and learning on their own.

Scala already has some appeal for them if they have to work with java code or have spent years with object oriented programming, so I think the more the Haskell community can do to bring them here, the better.

Whether or not it's feasible to create the course is another issue. I don't have an academic background or any academic affiliations to get the ball rolling, but if anyone wants to make a course I'll volunteer to help proof materials, test quizzes and assignments, and work on utilities to submit and grade assignments.


On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Brent Yorgey <byorgey <at> seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:49:08PM +0530, niket wrote:
> I am a novice in Haskell but I would love to see the gurus out here
> teaching Haskell on MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity.
>
> Dr Martin Odersky is doing it for Scala here:
> https://www.coursera.org/course/progfun
>
> I would love to see Haskell growing on such new platforms!

Just as a counterpoint, putting together a MOOC is a *ton* of work,
with (in my opinion) not much benefit for a topic like Haskell where
it is already possible to access lots of quality instructional
materials online.  I would rather see Haskell gurus put their time and
effort into producing more awesome code (or into curating existing
instructional materials).

Just my 2c.

-Brent

_______________________________________________
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Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe


_______________________________________________
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niket | 25 Oct 15:26 2012
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Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

The closest available is:




Thanks,
Niket

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:07 AM, David McBride <toad3k <at> gmail.com> wrote:
I'm taking it primarily because it is taught by the guy who made the language.  I mean how cool is that?  He is very smart and certainly blows any other lecturer I've ever had out of the water.  If SPJ were doing a haskell course I'd sign up for that too in a heart beat.

There's also a slim possibility that coursera will become something industry people can look at to find people with skills they need.  A nice perk if it works out, for something I'm doing for fun anyways.


On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Eric Rasmussen <ericrasmussen <at> gmail.com> wrote:
I can see that the required effort would be prohibitive, but after thinking about this some more I do think there are a couple of nice advantages:

1) Quizzes and graded assignments offer some structure to self study, and having some form of feedback/validation when you first get started is helpful. I learned a lot of Haskell by making up my own assignments, but not everyone is willing to put that kind of time into it.

2) I know several developers with great engineering skills who are taking the Scala course because it gives them a structured way to get into it and have something to show for the time on their resume. They're busy professionals whose skills and expertise in large projects could really benefit the Haskell community, but I've had no luck convincing them that it's worth the time spent researching and learning on their own.

Scala already has some appeal for them if they have to work with java code or have spent years with object oriented programming, so I think the more the Haskell community can do to bring them here, the better.

Whether or not it's feasible to create the course is another issue. I don't have an academic background or any academic affiliations to get the ball rolling, but if anyone wants to make a course I'll volunteer to help proof materials, test quizzes and assignments, and work on utilities to submit and grade assignments.


On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Brent Yorgey <byorgey <at> seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:49:08PM +0530, niket wrote:
> I am a novice in Haskell but I would love to see the gurus out here
> teaching Haskell on MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity.
>
> Dr Martin Odersky is doing it for Scala here:
> https://www.coursera.org/course/progfun
>
> I would love to see Haskell growing on such new platforms!

Just as a counterpoint, putting together a MOOC is a *ton* of work,
with (in my opinion) not much benefit for a topic like Haskell where
it is already possible to access lots of quality instructional
materials online.  I would rather see Haskell gurus put their time and
effort into producing more awesome code (or into curating existing
instructional materials).

Just my 2c.

-Brent

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Gregg Lebovitz | 25 Oct 22:57 2012

Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

I am trying to get a learning center started in the Haskell community. As pointed out below, MOOCs are hard to put together, however training and videos straight forward. There is a lot of teaching material available in the community. It is a matter of finding, organizing and curating it.

I wrote a blog on an initiative we are trying to start within the community. I have already gotten some course material contributions, but we need a lot more.

The blog is on my personal site http://www.lebovitz.net/?p=30.

If anyone wants to help, please let me know.

Gregg

On 10/25/2012 9:26 AM, niket wrote:
The closest available is:



Thanks,
Niket

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:07 AM, David McBride <toad3k <at> gmail.com> wrote:
I'm taking it primarily because it is taught by the guy who made the language.  I mean how cool is that?  He is very smart and certainly blows any other lecturer I've ever had out of the water.  If SPJ were doing a haskell course I'd sign up for that too in a heart beat.

There's also a slim possibility that coursera will become something industry people can look at to find people with skills they need.  A nice perk if it works out, for something I'm doing for fun anyways.


On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Eric Rasmussen <ericrasmussen <at> gmail.com> wrote:
I can see that the required effort would be prohibitive, but after thinking about this some more I do think there are a couple of nice advantages:

1) Quizzes and graded assignments offer some structure to self study, and having some form of feedback/validation when you first get started is helpful. I learned a lot of Haskell by making up my own assignments, but not everyone is willing to put that kind of time into it.

2) I know several developers with great engineering skills who are taking the Scala course because it gives them a structured way to get into it and have something to show for the time on their resume. They're busy professionals whose skills and expertise in large projects could really benefit the Haskell community, but I've had no luck convincing them that it's worth the time spent researching and learning on their own.

Scala already has some appeal for them if they have to work with java code or have spent years with object oriented programming, so I think the more the Haskell community can do to bring them here, the better.

Whether or not it's feasible to create the course is another issue. I don't have an academic background or any academic affiliations to get the ball rolling, but if anyone wants to make a course I'll volunteer to help proof materials, test quizzes and assignments, and work on utilities to submit and grade assignments.


On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Brent Yorgey <byorgey <at> seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:49:08PM +0530, niket wrote:
> I am a novice in Haskell but I would love to see the gurus out here
> teaching Haskell on MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity.
>
> Dr Martin Odersky is doing it for Scala here:
> https://www.coursera.org/course/progfun
>
> I would love to see Haskell growing on such new platforms!

Just as a counterpoint, putting together a MOOC is a *ton* of work,
with (in my opinion) not much benefit for a topic like Haskell where
it is already possible to access lots of quality instructional
materials online.  I would rather see Haskell gurus put their time and
effort into producing more awesome code (or into curating existing
instructional materials).

Just my 2c.

-Brent

_______________________________________________
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Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe


_______________________________________________
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Kristopher Micinski | 25 Oct 23:16 2012
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Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Gregg Lebovitz <gregg <at> fpcomplete.com> wrote:
> I am trying to get a learning center started in the Haskell community. As
> pointed out below, MOOCs are hard to put together, however training and
> videos straight forward. There is a lot of teaching material available in
> the community. It is a matter of finding, organizing and curating it.
>

At the same time the Haskell wiki and Oleg's site taken together
constitute a good amount of learning material in a semi organized
fashion.  These aren't replacements or implementations of your idea
but they come pretty close (to the point that I could spend quite a
while on the combinations of those and still feel unfinished..).  I
think the Haskell wikibook also does a good amount to address further
concepts in Haskell.  There have been tons of great FP books written
over the years, many of which aren't even frequently mentioned by
people, but at the same time nothing helps like actually using it in
your own personal projects, I haven't seen so much elaboration on
*this* point.  (For example, doing this would probably mean talking
about a set of parser combinators, some script-y haskell libraries, a
web framework, etc...)

Interesting quote:
After all, if we didn’t need teachers, then we could earn our
undergraduate degrees by spending four years in the library.

Is this not what most people do?  I know that was certainly my experience :-).

One problem with Haskell: the language moves fast.  "Core Haskell"
isn't all that hard, but if you open any real Haskell project, it's
going to use advanced (sometimes unstable) extensions that aren't
going to be in your book or web guide, making some people feel stuck.
These concepts aren't necessarily difficult, but if you actually want
to use Haskell you need to face the more popular language extensions.
Off the top of my head, existential types, arrows, higher kinds, all
stick out to me as being things you see in most code, along with (of
course) monad transformer stacks that will scare off newcomers and
aren't explained in any cohesive context other than the Haskell
wiki...

kris
niket | 30 Oct 05:41 2012
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Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

Hi Kris,


You have highlighted a very important point by talking about real life projects and the way they differ from "core" haskell.

When I got inspired by Martin Odersky's Coursera Scala course and wished the same for Haskell, I meant the following:

1. Great and in depth set of exercises and feedback/evaluation platform.
2. Real life haskell extensions and relevant exercises.
3. Structured and organized course. The current list of things on wiki is wonderful but are they helping newcomers? Frankly speaking, it didn't help me. How can we stop putting newcomers like me on crossroads of haskell learning?

Thanks,
Niket


On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:46 AM, Kristopher Micinski <krismicinski <at> gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Gregg Lebovitz <gregg <at> fpcomplete.com> wrote:
> I am trying to get a learning center started in the Haskell community. As
> pointed out below, MOOCs are hard to put together, however training and
> videos straight forward. There is a lot of teaching material available in
> the community. It is a matter of finding, organizing and curating it.
>

At the same time the Haskell wiki and Oleg's site taken together
constitute a good amount of learning material in a semi organized
fashion.  These aren't replacements or implementations of your idea
but they come pretty close (to the point that I could spend quite a
while on the combinations of those and still feel unfinished..).  I
think the Haskell wikibook also does a good amount to address further
concepts in Haskell.  There have been tons of great FP books written
over the years, many of which aren't even frequently mentioned by
people, but at the same time nothing helps like actually using it in
your own personal projects, I haven't seen so much elaboration on
*this* point.  (For example, doing this would probably mean talking
about a set of parser combinators, some script-y haskell libraries, a
web framework, etc...)

Interesting quote:
After all, if we didn’t need teachers, then we could earn our
undergraduate degrees by spending four years in the library.

Is this not what most people do?  I know that was certainly my experience :-).

One problem with Haskell: the language moves fast.  "Core Haskell"
isn't all that hard, but if you open any real Haskell project, it's
going to use advanced (sometimes unstable) extensions that aren't
going to be in your book or web guide, making some people feel stuck.
These concepts aren't necessarily difficult, but if you actually want
to use Haskell you need to face the more popular language extensions.
Off the top of my head, existential types, arrows, higher kinds, all
stick out to me as being things you see in most code, along with (of
course) monad transformer stacks that will scare off newcomers and
aren't explained in any cohesive context other than the Haskell
wiki...

kris

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Gregg Lebovitz | 26 Oct 03:35 2012

Re: Teaching Haskell <at> MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity

I would love to see an awesome online learning experience for Haskell too.

We really need to make it easier for people to learn Haskell.

Thank you for pointing this out to the community.

On 10/18/2012 2:19 PM, niket wrote:
I am a novice in Haskell but I would love to see the gurus out here teaching Haskell on MOOCs like Coursera or Udacity.

Dr Martin Odersky is doing it for Scala here: https://www.coursera.org/course/progfun

I would love to see Haskell growing on such new platforms!

Regards,
Niket


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Gmane