Christopher Howard | 27 Apr 07:21 2013

Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
/ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
to install.

I've had success installing some other simple functional languages (like
CLISP) on these same systems, so I was wondering if there was perhaps
another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.

I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
guess I could try it if I heard some good reasons to think it would be
more portable.

--

-- 
frigidcode.com

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Tommy Thorn | 27 Apr 07:31 2013
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Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

Hugs98, or failing that, the original Hugs, will almost certainly
be easier to compile for your RHEL5 system, but do note that
it's not a compiler in the sense that it makes standalone binaries.

Given your constraints, it's probably the best choice.

Tommy

On Apr 26, 2013, at 22:21 , Christopher Howard <christopher.howard <at> frigidcode.com> wrote:

> Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
> /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
> privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
> libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
> to install.
> 
> I've had success installing some other simple functional languages (like
> CLISP) on these same systems, so I was wondering if there was perhaps
> another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
> super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.
> 
> I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
> description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
> guess I could try it if I heard some good reasons to think it would be
> more portable.
> 
> -- 
> frigidcode.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
(Continue reading)

Francesco Mazzoli | 27 Apr 09:02 2013
Picon

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

At Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:21:48 -0800,
Christopher Howard wrote:
> Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
> /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
> privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
> libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
> to install.
> 
> I've had success installing some other simple functional languages (like
> CLISP) on these same systems, so I was wondering if there was perhaps
> another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
> super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.
> 
> I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
> description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
> guess I could try it if I heard some good reasons to think it would be
> more portable.

Hugs is ANSI C, and it doesn’t really get more portable than that.  However it
is only an interpreter, if you want a compiler you might might want to try
nhc98, which aims to be very portable as well <http://www.haskell.org/nhc98/>.

The problem with both of these solutions (Hugs a bit less than nhc98) is that
you won’t be able to enjoy the ecosystems that has grown in the recent years
around GHC.  But if you just want to write some standard Haskell programs, they
should be OK.

Francesco

_______________________________________________
(Continue reading)

Andrew Cowie | 27 Apr 11:18 2013

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 21:21 -0800, Christopher Howard wrote:
> Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
> /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
> privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
> libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
> to install.

Silly question, but have you tried *building GHC from source*?

Building GHC is non-trivial, but basically boils down to having an
existing ghc that runs enough to bootstrap, right? So you can take a
(quite old, sure, no problem) ghc out of the RHEL 5 repositories and use
that to build a current GHC 7.6 say. That _would_ be linked against
whatever library stack you have present, and you should be ok from
there.

AfC
Sydney

--

-- 
Andrew Frederick Cowie
http://www.andrewcowie.com/
+61 4 1079 6725

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(Continue reading)

Daniel Fischer | 27 Apr 13:12 2013

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

On Saturday 27 April 2013, 19:18:35, Andrew Cowie wrote:
> On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 21:21 -0800, Christopher Howard wrote:
> > Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
> > /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
> > privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
> > libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
> > to install.
> 
> Silly question, but have you tried *building GHC from source*?
> 
> Building GHC is non-trivial, but basically boils down to having an
> existing ghc that runs enough to bootstrap, right? So you can take a
> (quite old, sure, no problem) ghc out of the RHEL 5 repositories and use
> that to build a current GHC 7.6 say.

It's not quite as convenient as that, since you need a new enough GHC to build 
7.6 (not sure which version is required).

So you'd probably need to build one or two intermediate GHCs from source, 
depending on what you can directly install.

Building from source isn't so difficult, you need a gcc, you need to install 
happy and alex (sufficiently old versions for the start, install the newest 
versions before you build the final GHC), and of course a working GHC.

./configure --prefix=$HOME
(or where you want to install GHC)
make && make install

You then have a lot of time to drink tea.
(Continue reading)

Joe Quinn | 27 Apr 14:23 2013
Picon

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

If you are feeling brave, you can also bootstrap GHC. For operating 
systems that are already supported, it should not be too hard.
Last time I tried on a fresh install of Debian, the process was to 
install the dependencies, and then something like this:

sh configure
make
make install

Disclaimer: this was with 7.4.1, which was a while ago. I don't remember 
if that's all there was to it.

On 4/27/2013 7:12 AM, Daniel Fischer wrote:
> On Saturday 27 April 2013, 19:18:35, Andrew Cowie wrote:
>> On Fri, 2013-04-26 at 21:21 -0800, Christopher Howard wrote:
>>> Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
>>> /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
>>> privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
>>> libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
>>> to install.
>> Silly question, but have you tried *building GHC from source*?
>>
>> Building GHC is non-trivial, but basically boils down to having an
>> existing ghc that runs enough to bootstrap, right? So you can take a
>> (quite old, sure, no problem) ghc out of the RHEL 5 repositories and use
>> that to build a current GHC 7.6 say.
> It's not quite as convenient as that, since you need a new enough GHC to build
> 7.6 (not sure which version is required).
>
> So you'd probably need to build one or two intermediate GHCs from source,
(Continue reading)

Jeremy Shaw | 27 Apr 18:20 2013

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

Have you considered installing on older version of GHC? Such as GHC
6.10.4 or GHC 6.8.3?

http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_6_10_4
http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_683

They won't have all the latest extensions.. but they still have more
features than any other alternative.

Also, once you have a version installed, you can, with enough
patience, upgrade to the latest version if you really need some
feature.

- jeremy

On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Christopher Howard
<christopher.howard <at> frigidcode.com> wrote:
> Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
> /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
> privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
> libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
> to install.
>
> I've had success installing some other simple functional languages (like
> CLISP) on these same systems, so I was wondering if there was perhaps
> another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
> super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.
>
> I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
> description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
(Continue reading)

Jerzy Karczmarczuk | 27 Apr 18:36 2013
Picon

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

Christopher Howard:
> I was wondering if there was perhaps
> another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
> super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.
>
> I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
> description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
> guess I could try it if I heard some good reasons to think it would be
> more portable.
Is the portability which worries you, or the age of your system?

Hugs (and Gofer before) are simply sufficiently old... I used them on 
Red Hat in one of my previous lives.
Do you really need to compile your system from sources?

There are binaries everywhere. If you want a *simpler* language, perhaps 
try Miranda? Also a quite ancient language...

Or, perhaps a newer one, in some aspects simpler than Haskell (but far 
from any simplicity): Clean.

Perhaps it might help to know what do you need it for...

The best

Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Christopher Howard | 27 Apr 23:09 2013

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

On 04/27/2013 08:36 AM, Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:
> Christopher Howard:
> Is the portability which worries you, or the age of your system?
> 

Actually getting a successful build and installation would be great.
Also, there are multiple systems I work with, both of which have ancient
software, but unfortunately are not the same configuration. I often find
software that builds on one, but not the other.

> Hugs (and Gofer before) are simply sufficiently old... I used them on
> Red Hat in one of my previous lives.
> Do you really need to compile your system from sources?
> 

I guess not, if I can get one to install successfully to a local
(non-root) user account. As mentioned, GHC Linux binaries failed me
here, because apparently the gnu libc version is too old. With most
software, I generally have had more success installing from source than
trying to work with pre-built.

> There are binaries everywhere. If you want a *simpler* language, perhaps
> try Miranda? Also a quite ancient language...
> 
> Or, perhaps a newer one, in some aspects simpler than Haskell (but far
> from any simplicity): Clean.
> 

To be clearer, I do not really want any language other than Haskell. I
just imagined that a simpler language might have a simpler and more
(Continue reading)

Siraaj Khandkar | 27 Apr 20:20 2013
Picon

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language


On Apr 27, 2013, at 1:21 AM, Christopher Howard <christopher.howard <at> frigidcode.com> wrote:

> Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
> /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
> privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
> libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
> to install.
> 
> I've had success installing some other simple functional languages (like
> CLISP) on these same systems, so I was wondering if there was perhaps
> another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
> super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.

I successfully built and used OCaml 4.0.0 on a 32 bit RHEL 5 box a few months ago.

https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml

> I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
> description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
> guess I could try it if I heard some good reasons to think it would be
> more portable.
> 
> -- 
> frigidcode.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
(Continue reading)

Hong Yang | 27 Apr 21:05 2013
Picon

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

I had similar work situation before. What I did was: install a CentOS virtual machine on Windows at home (CentOS version should be compatible to your RHEL5 version, and do not update it), then play with Haskell within CentOS. Your executables will be runnable on RHEL5.


On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Siraaj Khandkar <siraaj <at> khandkar.net> wrote:

On Apr 27, 2013, at 1:21 AM, Christopher Howard <christopher.howard <at> frigidcode.com> wrote:

> Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
> /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
> privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
> libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
> to install.
>
> I've had success installing some other simple functional languages (like
> CLISP) on these same systems, so I was wondering if there was perhaps
> another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
> super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.

I successfully built and used OCaml 4.0.0 on a 32 bit RHEL 5 box a few months ago.

https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml


> I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
> description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
> guess I could try it if I heard some good reasons to think it would be
> more portable.
>
> --
> frigidcode.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

--
Siraaj Khandkar
.o.  o.o  ..o  o..  .o.
..o  .oo  o.o  .oo  ..o
ooo  .o.  .oo  oo.  ooo



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Aaron Tomb | 27 Apr 23:40 2013
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Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

I recently built a binary installer for GHC 7.6.3 to run on CentOS 5.9, which should be compatible with RHEL 5. It uses glibc 2.5, at least. I don't have a good place to host it long-term, but would be happy to make it available to you (or anyone else who's interested).

Aaron


On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Christopher Howard <christopher.howard <at> frigidcode.com> wrote:
Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
/ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
to install.

I've had success installing some other simple functional languages (like
CLISP) on these same systems, so I was wondering if there was perhaps
another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.

I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
guess I could try it if I heard some good reasons to think it would be
more portable.

--
frigidcode.com


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe


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Tim Docker | 28 Apr 13:23 2013
Picon

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

On 27/04/13 15:21, Christopher Howard wrote:
> Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
> /ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
> privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
> libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
> to install.
>

You can use GHC on RHEL 5 machines, it's just very tedious to set up. A 
blog post I wrote a while ago describes the process:

http://twdkz.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/installing-ghc-7-0-3-and-the-haskell-platform-on-rhel-5-6/

I still use this, though now I have an extra step to build build GHC 
7.4.2 atop of 7.0.3.

Tim
David Virebayre | 29 Apr 13:28 2013
Picon

Re: Looking for portable Haskell or Haskell like language

I've got ghc working here on a centos 5.5 machine. But without root privilege, I don't know how.

Perhaps you can use a virtual machine with centos 5.5 (you'd have root access on this machine), install ghc on this machine, compile your programs there, then transfer that on the first computer ?


2013/4/27 Christopher Howard <christopher.howard <at> frigidcode.com>
Hi. I've got this work situation where I've got to do all my work on
/ancient/ RHEL5 systems, with funky software configurations, and no root
privileges. I wanted to install GHC in my local account, but the gnu
libc version is so old (2.5!) that I can't even get the binary packages
to install.

I've had success installing some other simple functional languages (like
CLISP) on these same systems, so I was wondering if there was perhaps
another language very similar to Haskell (but presumably simpler) with a
super portable compiler easily built from source, which I could try.

I'll admit -- I haven't tried the HUGS compiler for Haskell. The quick
description didn't make it sound much more portable than GHC, but I
guess I could try it if I heard some good reasons to think it would be
more portable.

--
frigidcode.com


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe


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Gmane