Ömer Sinan Ağacan | 4 Nov 18:17 2013
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idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Hi all,

The following is happening to me very often:

- I decide to do some work in Haskell and decide to do it using a library.
- I go to hackage and search for some keywords, find 10 different
packages that does similar things.
- In that moment, I need to apply some heuristics to decide which
package to use. When my heuristics don't end up with only one package,
I go to Haskell IRC channel and ask people there to which library to
use.

My heuristic is something like:

- Look if author/maintainer is well-known people in Haskell community
that are already produced very high-quality libraries.
- Make sure it's currently maintained(updated at least in past few months)
- Make sure it has Github repository.
- some other stuff like that.

These heuristics are not working great, most of the time I'm ending up
with IRC channel. So my proposal is this:

Why not have a rating/comment system for packages in hackage, so that
when I need to find a library for something I can just look to
comments or ratings to see how complete/well-implemented or what does
it good for etc. (for example, we have several high quality xml
parsers, some of them are for performance while some of them aiming
for being easy to use)

(Continue reading)

Charlie Paul | 4 Nov 20:34 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

This has been proposed many times before, and each time everyone agrees that something like this is a good idea. However, like many good proposals, no one has put up code.

Also in this particular case, the devil is in the details. How do ratings transfer between versions? How do you account for the effects of bitrot?

On Monday, November 4, 2013, Ömer Sinan Ağacan <omeragacan <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The following is happening to me very often:
>
> - I decide to do some work in Haskell and decide to do it using a library.
> - I go to hackage and search for some keywords, find 10 different
> packages that does similar things.
> - In that moment, I need to apply some heuristics to decide which
> package to use. When my heuristics don't end up with only one package,
> I go to Haskell IRC channel and ask people there to which library to
> use.
>
>
> My heuristic is something like:
>
> - Look if author/maintainer is well-known people in Haskell community
> that are already produced very high-quality libraries.
> - Make sure it's currently maintained(updated at least in past few months)
> - Make sure it has Github repository.
> - some other stuff like that.
>
> These heuristics are not working great, most of the time I'm ending up
> with IRC channel. So my proposal is this:
>
> Why not have a rating/comment system for packages in hackage, so that
> when I need to find a library for something I can just look to
> comments or ratings to see how complete/well-implemented or what does
> it good for etc. (for example, we have several high quality xml
> parsers, some of them are for performance while some of them aiming
> for being easy to use)
>
> Any comments would be appreciated.
>
>
> ---
> Ömer Sinan Ağacan
> http://osa1.net
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>

_______________________________________________
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adam vogt | 4 Nov 21:14 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Hi Omer,

There is such content in the haskell wiki. For example there is
something here <http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Alternatives_and_extensions_for_libraries>
or <http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Applications_and_libraries/Mathematics>.

Perhaps there is (or should be) category in the haskell wiki similar
to <http://cran.r-project.org/web/views/>

--
Adam

On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Charlie Paul <charlieap <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> This has been proposed many times before, and each time everyone agrees that
> something like this is a good idea. However, like many good proposals, no
> one has put up code.
>
> Also in this particular case, the devil is in the details. How do ratings
> transfer between versions? How do you account for the effects of bitrot?
>
>
> On Monday, November 4, 2013, Ömer Sinan Ağacan <omeragacan <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The following is happening to me very often:
>>
>> - I decide to do some work in Haskell and decide to do it using a library.
>> - I go to hackage and search for some keywords, find 10 different
>> packages that does similar things.
>> - In that moment, I need to apply some heuristics to decide which
>> package to use. When my heuristics don't end up with only one package,
>> I go to Haskell IRC channel and ask people there to which library to
>> use.
>>
>>
>> My heuristic is something like:
>>
>> - Look if author/maintainer is well-known people in Haskell community
>> that are already produced very high-quality libraries.
>> - Make sure it's currently maintained(updated at least in past few months)
>> - Make sure it has Github repository.
>> - some other stuff like that.
>>
>> These heuristics are not working great, most of the time I'm ending up
>> with IRC channel. So my proposal is this:
>>
>> Why not have a rating/comment system for packages in hackage, so that
>> when I need to find a library for something I can just look to
>> comments or ratings to see how complete/well-implemented or what does
>> it good for etc. (for example, we have several high quality xml
>> parsers, some of them are for performance while some of them aiming
>> for being easy to use)
>>
>> Any comments would be appreciated.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Ömer Sinan Ağacan
>> http://osa1.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>> Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>
_______________________________________________
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Ben Gamari | 4 Nov 21:25 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Charlie Paul <charlieap <at> gmail.com> writes:

> This has been proposed many times before, and each time everyone agrees
> that something like this is a good idea. However, like many good proposals,
> no one has put up code.
>
I also think that many Hackage improvements like this one were blocked on
Hackage 2. Now since this is finally in the wild it should be a bit
easier for people to pick up this sort of project.

> Also in this particular case, the devil is in the details. How do ratings
> transfer between versions? How do you account for the effects of bitrot?
>
Certainly there are tricky details to work out but I think a lot of the
work will be simply getting to the point where we can collect ratings
and stuff them into a database. After this there would need to be some
experimentation to work out the finer points you mention.

In my mind a rating would consist of some numeric rating (1-5, for instance,
perhaps along multiple dimensions, e.g.: quality of documentation, type-safety
of interface, performance) for a particular package. The user, date, and
current version number should also be recorded.

A zeroth-order approach for accounting for bit-rot might be to use a
simple temporally-weighted average. This would be simple to implement
and might even produce marginally useful results. Even if not, it's a
place to start.

Cheers,

- Ben
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Carter Schonwald | 4 Nov 22:39 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Honestly the first step is making it easier (and efficient) to look at reverse dependency information plus download count.  Those numbers are both manipulable,  but can still yield some informative basic info. 

On Monday, November 4, 2013, Ben Gamari wrote:

Charlie Paul <charlieap <at> gmail.com> writes:

> This has been proposed many times before, and each time everyone agrees
> that something like this is a good idea. However, like many good proposals,
> no one has put up code.
>
I also think that many Hackage improvements like this one were blocked on
Hackage 2. Now since this is finally in the wild it should be a bit
easier for people to pick up this sort of project.

> Also in this particular case, the devil is in the details. How do ratings
> transfer between versions? How do you account for the effects of bitrot?
>
Certainly there are tricky details to work out but I think a lot of the
work will be simply getting to the point where we can collect ratings
and stuff them into a database. After this there would need to be some
experimentation to work out the finer points you mention.

In my mind a rating would consist of some numeric rating (1-5, for instance,
perhaps along multiple dimensions, e.g.: quality of documentation, type-safety
of interface, performance) for a particular package. The user, date, and
current version number should also be recorded.

A zeroth-order approach for accounting for bit-rot might be to use a
simple temporally-weighted average. This would be simple to implement
and might even produce marginally useful results. Even if not, it's a
place to start.

Cheers,

- Ben
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Dan Burton | 4 Nov 23:04 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

And these steps are done!

* Download count is already there on Hackage, though it's relatively new so it may take some more time for these numbers to have real weight.
* Revdeps are calculated and provided here: http://packdeps.haskellers.com/reverse

-- Dan Burton


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Honestly the first step is making it easier (and efficient) to look at reverse dependency information plus download count.  Those numbers are both manipulable,  but can still yield some informative basic info. 


On Monday, November 4, 2013, Ben Gamari wrote:
Charlie Paul <charlieap <at> gmail.com> writes:

> This has been proposed many times before, and each time everyone agrees
> that something like this is a good idea. However, like many good proposals,
> no one has put up code.
>
I also think that many Hackage improvements like this one were blocked on
Hackage 2. Now since this is finally in the wild it should be a bit
easier for people to pick up this sort of project.

> Also in this particular case, the devil is in the details. How do ratings
> transfer between versions? How do you account for the effects of bitrot?
>
Certainly there are tricky details to work out but I think a lot of the
work will be simply getting to the point where we can collect ratings
and stuff them into a database. After this there would need to be some
experimentation to work out the finer points you mention.

In my mind a rating would consist of some numeric rating (1-5, for instance,
perhaps along multiple dimensions, e.g.: quality of documentation, type-safety
of interface, performance) for a particular package. The user, date, and
current version number should also be recorded.

A zeroth-order approach for accounting for bit-rot might be to use a
simple temporally-weighted average. This would be simple to implement
and might even produce marginally useful results. Even if not, it's a
place to start.

Cheers,

- Ben

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe


_______________________________________________
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Carter Schonwald | 4 Nov 23:11 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

indeed! Now having those latter tabulations on hackage-server  (or a hint for new haskellers about where to look) would be dandy

i'm happilly over the "who does/likes what" hump myself, but it is valuable breadcrumbs for folks getting started. That said, asking via cafe  / reddit / irc is also valuable because you can get peoples *opinions* about when two libraries are better in what use case. Not all problems can have a "canonically best tool" (as much as we'd like to strive for such tools)


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Dan Burton <danburton.email <at> gmail.com> wrote:
And these steps are done!

* Download count is already there on Hackage, though it's relatively new so it may take some more time for these numbers to have real weight.
* Revdeps are calculated and provided here: http://packdeps.haskellers.com/reverse

-- Dan Burton


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Honestly the first step is making it easier (and efficient) to look at reverse dependency information plus download count.  Those numbers are both manipulable,  but can still yield some informative basic info. 


On Monday, November 4, 2013, Ben Gamari wrote:
Charlie Paul <charlieap <at> gmail.com> writes:

> This has been proposed many times before, and each time everyone agrees
> that something like this is a good idea. However, like many good proposals,
> no one has put up code.
>
I also think that many Hackage improvements like this one were blocked on
Hackage 2. Now since this is finally in the wild it should be a bit
easier for people to pick up this sort of project.

> Also in this particular case, the devil is in the details. How do ratings
> transfer between versions? How do you account for the effects of bitrot?
>
Certainly there are tricky details to work out but I think a lot of the
work will be simply getting to the point where we can collect ratings
and stuff them into a database. After this there would need to be some
experimentation to work out the finer points you mention.

In my mind a rating would consist of some numeric rating (1-5, for instance,
perhaps along multiple dimensions, e.g.: quality of documentation, type-safety
of interface, performance) for a particular package. The user, date, and
current version number should also be recorded.

A zeroth-order approach for accounting for bit-rot might be to use a
simple temporally-weighted average. This would be simple to implement
and might even produce marginally useful results. Even if not, it's a
place to start.

Cheers,

- Ben

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe



_______________________________________________
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Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Simon Hengel | 4 Nov 23:45 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

> In my mind a rating would consist of some numeric rating (1-5, for instance,
> perhaps along multiple dimensions, e.g.: quality of documentation, type-safety
> of interface, performance) for a particular package. The user, date, and
> current version number should also be recorded.

I think a simple like/star mechanism is better than 5-star rating.
Otherwise I, as a package author, feel tempted to make every user happy
in fear of bad reviews (which may not necessarily lead to the most
consistent or future proof API).  Writing high-quality packages is not a
popularity contest!

Or maybe just integrating GitHub stars is the way to go?  If this leads
to more stars for Haskell projects on GitHub, this would also help to
promote Haskell in the large open source community!

Cheers,
Simon
Curtis Gagliardi | 4 Nov 23:50 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Integrating with github stars was what I imagined.  I was thinking of maybe forking http://www.clojuresphere.com/ and trying to get it to work with haskell projects.  It looks pretty viable since hackage appears to have downloads and haskellers.com looks like it has the dependency graph stuff already done.


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Simon Hengel <sol <at> typeful.net> wrote:
> In my mind a rating would consist of some numeric rating (1-5, for instance,
> perhaps along multiple dimensions, e.g.: quality of documentation, type-safety
> of interface, performance) for a particular package. The user, date, and
> current version number should also be recorded.

I think a simple like/star mechanism is better than 5-star rating.
Otherwise I, as a package author, feel tempted to make every user happy
in fear of bad reviews (which may not necessarily lead to the most
consistent or future proof API).  Writing high-quality packages is not a
popularity contest!

Or maybe just integrating GitHub stars is the way to go?  If this leads
to more stars for Haskell projects on GitHub, this would also help to
promote Haskell in the large open source community!

Cheers,
Simon
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

_______________________________________________
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Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Ben Gamari | 5 Nov 18:39 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Curtis Gagliardi <gagliardi.curtis <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Integrating with github stars was what I imagined.  I was thinking of maybe
> forking http://www.clojuresphere.com/ and trying to get it to work with
> haskell projects.  It looks pretty viable since hackage appears to have
> downloads and haskellers.com looks like it has the dependency graph stuff
> already done.
>
I'm not sure about this. It seems like a rather indirect metric. I, for
one, often use Github's star feature as more of a bookmark facility than
anything else; a reminder to have a look at a project when there are
free cycles. In my experience stars are rarely removed so there is really
no way to account for stagnation. Instead, the metric turns into more of
an indicator of project age than quality.

I'll admit that I may have been overcomplicating things in suggesting a
multidimensional rating space, however.

Cheers,

- Ben

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Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Ömer Sinan Ağacan | 5 Nov 19:36 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Hi all,

I must admit that I didn't read all responses in detail, but what I
figured is that we just can't make everyone happy. I think what's need
to be done is someone create a webpage that uses hackage pages, but
adds ratings/comments/whatever to the same page so that we can at
least discuss and rate packages and then wait for users to contribute.

Of course the obvious question is why not do it myself? This is
because I'm currently very busy and I can't spare my time for this.
(also, I'm not very experienced in web stuff so it costs me more time
than it costs someone more experienced in this stuff)

---
Ömer Sinan Ağacan
http://osa1.net

2013/11/5 Ben Gamari <bgamari.foss <at> gmail.com>:
> Curtis Gagliardi <gagliardi.curtis <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Integrating with github stars was what I imagined.  I was thinking of maybe
>> forking http://www.clojuresphere.com/ and trying to get it to work with
>> haskell projects.  It looks pretty viable since hackage appears to have
>> downloads and haskellers.com looks like it has the dependency graph stuff
>> already done.
>>
> I'm not sure about this. It seems like a rather indirect metric. I, for
> one, often use Github's star feature as more of a bookmark facility than
> anything else; a reminder to have a look at a project when there are
> free cycles. In my experience stars are rarely removed so there is really
> no way to account for stagnation. Instead, the metric turns into more of
> an indicator of project age than quality.
>
> I'll admit that I may have been overcomplicating things in suggesting a
> multidimensional rating space, however.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Ben
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>
Carter Schonwald | 6 Nov 05:02 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

The beauty of open source is everyone is busy,  so people only work on things they truly care about!




On Tuesday, November 5, 2013, Ömer Sinan Ağacan wrote:
Hi all,

I must admit that I didn't read all responses in detail, but what I
figured is that we just can't make everyone happy. I think what's need
to be done is someone create a webpage that uses hackage pages, but
adds ratings/comments/whatever to the same page so that we can at
least discuss and rate packages and then wait for users to contribute.

Of course the obvious question is why not do it myself? This is
because I'm currently very busy and I can't spare my time for this.
(also, I'm not very experienced in web stuff so it costs me more time
than it costs someone more experienced in this stuff)

---
Ömer Sinan Ağacan
http://osa1.net


2013/11/5 Ben Gamari <bgamari.foss <at> gmail.com>:
> Curtis Gagliardi <gagliardi.curtis <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Integrating with github stars was what I imagined.  I was thinking of maybe
>> forking http://www.clojuresphere.com/ and trying to get it to work with
>> haskell projects.  It looks pretty viable since hackage appears to have
>> downloads and haskellers.com looks like it has the dependency graph stuff
>> already done.
>>
> I'm not sure about this. It seems like a rather indirect metric. I, for
> one, often use Github's star feature as more of a bookmark facility than
> anything else; a reminder to have a look at a project when there are
> free cycles. In my experience stars are rarely removed so there is really
> no way to account for stagnation. Instead, the metric turns into more of
> an indicator of project age than quality.
>
> I'll admit that I may have been overcomplicating things in suggesting a
> multidimensional rating space, however.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Ben
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
_______________________________________________
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Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Roman Cheplyaka | 5 Nov 06:35 2013

Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

* Simon Hengel <sol <at> typeful.net> [2013-11-04 23:45:36+0100]
> Or maybe just integrating GitHub stars is the way to go?  If this leads
> to more stars for Haskell projects on GitHub, this would also help to
> promote Haskell in the large open source community!

That's a great idea!

The github url can be derived by checking the homepage url and the
source repository location for the right pattern. (At least one of these
should point to github.)

Then we just need to send a GET request at

  http://api.github.com/repos/:owner/:repo/stargazers

and parse the JSON response.

To avoid the delay while loading the page, I guess it's better to do
this asynchronously on the client side.

Anyone cares to write this piece of javascript?

Roman
_______________________________________________
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Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Carter Schonwald | 5 Nov 06:49 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

would we also want to integrate bitbucket and darcsden analogues as well?


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Roman Cheplyaka <roma <at> ro-che.info> wrote:
* Simon Hengel <sol <at> typeful.net> [2013-11-04 23:45:36+0100]
> Or maybe just integrating GitHub stars is the way to go?  If this leads
> to more stars for Haskell projects on GitHub, this would also help to
> promote Haskell in the large open source community!

That's a great idea!

The github url can be derived by checking the homepage url and the
source repository location for the right pattern. (At least one of these
should point to github.)

Then we just need to send a GET request at

  http://api.github.com/repos/:owner/:repo/stargazers

and parse the JSON response.

To avoid the delay while loading the page, I guess it's better to do
this asynchronously on the client side.

Anyone cares to write this piece of javascript?

Roman

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe


_______________________________________________
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http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Charlie Paul | 5 Nov 07:01 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

If we go with the star-based option, I don't see a serious reason not to add other sites as well. Though, if our goal is to get a rating of sorts from it, we would need to have factors for each hosting site, to account for varying user bases.


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald <at> gmail.com> wrote:
would we also want to integrate bitbucket and darcsden analogues as well?


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Roman Cheplyaka <roma <at> ro-che.info> wrote:
* Simon Hengel <sol <at> typeful.net> [2013-11-04 23:45:36+0100]
> Or maybe just integrating GitHub stars is the way to go?  If this leads
> to more stars for Haskell projects on GitHub, this would also help to
> promote Haskell in the large open source community!

That's a great idea!

The github url can be derived by checking the homepage url and the
source repository location for the right pattern. (At least one of these
should point to github.)

Then we just need to send a GET request at

  http://api.github.com/repos/:owner/:repo/stargazers

and parse the JSON response.

To avoid the delay while loading the page, I guess it's better to do
this asynchronously on the client side.

Anyone cares to write this piece of javascript?

Roman

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe <at> haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe



_______________________________________________
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http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe


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Carter Schonwald | 5 Nov 08:00 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

honestly this is getting a bit over complex and silly! Should we also have google +1s and fb likes? What about # of blog posts? number of upvotes on on reddit? These are all great marketing metrics, but they dont help an end user understand which libs are *used*. 

github stars are not a measure of quality, but more of wow/coolness factor. 

lets try to stick to metrics that correspond to library usage and volume of developer activity


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Charlie Paul <charlieap <at> gmail.com> wrote:
If we go with the star-based option, I don't see a serious reason not to add other sites as well. Though, if our goal is to get a rating of sorts from it, we would need to have factors for each hosting site, to account for varying user bases.


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald <at> gmail.com> wrote:
would we also want to integrate bitbucket and darcsden analogues as well?


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Roman Cheplyaka <roma <at> ro-che.info> wrote:
* Simon Hengel <sol <at> typeful.net> [2013-11-04 23:45:36+0100]
> Or maybe just integrating GitHub stars is the way to go?  If this leads
> to more stars for Haskell projects on GitHub, this would also help to
> promote Haskell in the large open source community!

That's a great idea!

The github url can be derived by checking the homepage url and the
source repository location for the right pattern. (At least one of these
should point to github.)

Then we just need to send a GET request at

  http://api.github.com/repos/:owner/:repo/stargazers

and parse the JSON response.

To avoid the delay while loading the page, I guess it's better to do
this asynchronously on the client side.

Anyone cares to write this piece of javascript?

Roman

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Brandon Allbery | 5 Nov 15:14 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald <at> gmail.com> wrote:
honestly this is getting a bit over complex and silly! Should we also have google +1s and fb likes? What about # of blog posts? number of upvotes on on reddit? These are all great marketing metrics, but they dont help an end user understand which libs are *used*. 

github stars are not a measure of quality, but more of wow/coolness factor. 

lets try to stick to metrics that correspond to library usage and volume of developer activity

+1

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Ketil Malde | 6 Nov 09:34 2013

Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage


> lets try to stick to metrics that correspond to library usage and volume of
> developer activity

How about comments?  Using e.g. disqus, it's a minimal administrative
overhead, and provide user-contributed information without any
artificial limitations or ambiguity.

For instance, I recently updated a library to work with newer
compilers, and sent the patches to the previous maintainer.  He
suggested I just upload it to Hackage, but this is not allowed anymore,
and I haven't heard from him since.  If I could add a comment, I could
at least point to my repository with an updated library version until
this can be resolved.

-k
--

-- 
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
Carter Schonwald | 6 Nov 09:38 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

1) comments have spam

2) the new process for getting the ACLs to a package where you're taking over is to email the libraries list and have the prior maintainer say "yes, Ketil is now maintainer" and/or you tell the libraries list "i couldn't reach the maintainer and its been X time period" and they'll giveyou push powers.

email the libraries list and someone can help. or go on #hackage on IRC and ask


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:34 AM, Ketil Malde <ketil <at> malde.org> wrote:

> lets try to stick to metrics that correspond to library usage and volume of
> developer activity

How about comments?  Using e.g. disqus, it's a minimal administrative
overhead, and provide user-contributed information without any
artificial limitations or ambiguity.

For instance, I recently updated a library to work with newer
compilers, and sent the patches to the previous maintainer.  He
suggested I just upload it to Hackage, but this is not allowed anymore,
and I haven't heard from him since.  If I could add a comment, I could
at least point to my repository with an updated library version until
this can be resolved.

-k
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants

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Wvv | 7 Nov 19:16 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Comments are the good idea.

For example, at PHP online documentation  we see a lot of comments which
help to understand how to use features:
http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.php
http://www.php.net/manual/en/mcrypt.setup.php

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Ketil Malde | 11 Nov 14:19 2013

The participation threshold (was Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage)


Carter Schonwald <carter.schonwald <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 1) comments have spam
> 2) the new process for getting the ACLs to a package where you're 

On the face of it, this looks like two entirely different things.  But
in a sense, I think they're not.

As hackage is tightening up its administrative aspects, there are new
protocols and due process to accomplish various things.  However, one
must be acutely aware of the cost of even small hurdles.  I read
somewhere (but couldn't find it again) that for every extra action
required in a process, you lose a certain - fairly large - percentage of
people.

So when I fixed a few things in Data.Judy, I emailed the patch to Don S
(the maintainer), who suggested I just take it over.  I actually took the
trouble of figuring out the process for transferring maintainership
(which wasn't terribly obvious), and mailed him back.  And haven't heard
anything.

And I don't blame him, he's likely busy with real work, and doesn't have
any particular interest in an old orphaned library.

Now, sure, I can find the correct subscription process for libraries <at> ,
subscribe, wait for confirmation, send a message applying for
maintainership, wait for approval (or rejection, and appeal?), then
upload the new version to hackage.  Or I can install an IRC client, find
out which IRC server I should use, go to #hackage, send a message,
resend it at intervals, until somebody responds, wait for maintainership
to be transferred, upload a new package.

Well, guess what, this has little to no benefit to myself - and chances
are, I'll postpone it to some lazy day in the future - probably never.
After all, my version works for me.

Anyway, I'm not saying the processes and protocols are wrong, perhaps
the net benefit outweighs the costs.  I have previously uploaded new
versions to hackage after not getting a response from the maintainer for
a few days - this was much to the annoyance of said maintainer, so there
are clearly downsides to having a process that is too open.  I think the
important thing is that:

 a) we keep in mind that any hurdle, any restriction has a real and
 tangible cost, and thus the necessity of any restrictive feature should
 be very carefully considered

 b) if a restriction cannot be avoided, its impact should be made as
 small as possible (for instance, requests could be directed to a list
 that isn't subscribers only)

So in the case of comments, yes, there is a risk of spam (although I
do think disqus is doing a pretty good job of avoiding it).  But it is
also a very low-barrier way for users of sending feedback.  Must we
really sacrifice that?

-k

PS: I'd love user comments on anything I maintain, I wonder if I could
sneak in some code in the .cabal file that will render a disqus comment
field on hackage regardless?  :-)
--

-- 
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
Erik Hesselink | 11 Nov 16:03 2013
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Re: The participation threshold (was Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage)

>  b) if a restriction cannot be avoided, its impact should be made as
>  small as possible (for instance, requests could be directed to a list
>  that isn't subscribers only)

For hackage specifically, you can email admin <at> hackage.haskell.org to
get assistance for stuff like taking over a package if the maintainer
is unable/absent.

Erik
Ozgur Akgun | 6 Nov 16:01 2013
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Re: idea: ratings (or maybe comments) for packages in hackage

Hi.

On 6 November 2013 08:34, Ketil Malde <ketil <at> malde.org> wrote:
> lets try to stick to metrics that correspond to library usage and volume of
> developer activity

How about comments?  Using e.g. disqus, it's a minimal administrative
overhead, and provide user-contributed information without any
artificial limitations or ambiguity.

Does anyone remember this?

I had enabled the user script back then, and I still see disqus comments on hackage.
The comments are not useful at all though, because they practically do not exist. (Very few people used the user script anyway.)

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Ozgur Akgun
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