Re: Monad-control rant
Mikhail Vorozhtsov <mikhail.vorozhtsov <at> gmail.com>
2012-01-17 11:29:12 GMT
On 01/17/2012 03:00 AM, Edward Z. Yang wrote:
>>> I don't think it makes too much sense have thing pick off a menu of
>>> Abort/Recover/Finally from a semantics perspective:
>>>> It's easy to imagine monads that have an instance of one of the classes but
>>>> not of the others....
>>> I'd like to see some examples. I hypothesize that most of such monads are
>>> incoherent, semantically speaking. For example, what does it mean to have a
>>> monad that can recover exceptions, but for which you can't throw exceptions?
>> Imagine a monad that disallows lifting of arbitrary IO actions, but can
>> receive asynchronous events (which would probably be /implemented/ on
>> top of asynchronous exceptions, but that's not important here) that
>> behave like runtime-inserted left zeros.
>> COMPUTATIONALLY_HEAVY_CODE `recover` \level →
> The vehicle of implementation here is kind of important. If they are implemented
> as asynchronous exceptions, I can in fact still throw in this universe: I just
> attempt to execute the equivalent of 'undefined :: m a'. Since asynchronous exceptions
> can always be thrown from pure code, I can /always/ do this, no matter how you
> lock down the types. Indeed, I think implementing this functionality on asynchronous
> exceptions is a good idea, because it lets you handle nonterminating pure code nicely,
> and allows you to bail out even when you're not doing monadic execution.
I don't like there this is going. Arguments like this destroy the whole
point of having abstract interfaces. I took liftBase from you and now
you are picking lock on my back door with raise#. I can deny this by
hiding the constructor of the asynchronous exception I use for passing
`lavel` in my implementation. But seriously. Next thing I know you will
be sneaking down my chimney with `unsafePerformIO` in your hands. It is
no question that the type system cannot protect us from all the tricks
RTS provides, but we still can rely on conventions of use.
Personally I'm not a fan of exceptions in pure code. If something can
fail it should be reflected in its type, otherwise I consider it a bug.
The only scenario I'm comfortable with is using asynchronous exceptions
to interrupt some number crunching.
> But, for the sake of argument, so let's suppose that they're not done as
> asynchronous exceptions; essentially, you define some 'safe points' which have
> the possibility to raise exceptions. In this case, I claim there will never be
> a *technical* difficulty against implementing manually thrown exceptions; the
> concern here is "you don't want the user to do that." With some sets of
> operations, this isn't a very strong injunction; if there is a deterministic
> set of operations that results in an error, the user can make a gadget which is
> semantically equivalent to a thrown exception. I don't think I can argue anything
> stronger here, so I concede the rest of the point.
> So, to summarize, such an interface (has recovery but not masking or throwing)
> always has a trivial throw instance unless you are not implementing it on top
> of asynchronous exceptions.
> Your example reminds me of what happens in pure code. In this context, we have
> the ability to throw errors and map over errors (although I'm not sure how people
> feel about that, semantically), but not to catch them or mask them. But I don't
> think we need another typeclass for that.
Hm, are you against splitting MonadPlus too?
>> The purpose of monad-abort-fd is to provide a generic API for handling errors
>> that have values attached to them and for guarding actions with finalizers
>> (as the notion of failure can include more things besides the errors).
> Here's the reason I'm so fixated on IO: There is a very, /very/ bright line
> between code that does IO, and pure code. You can have arbitrary stacks of
> monads, but at the end of the day, if IO is not at the end of the line, your
> code is pure.
> If your code is pure, you don't need finalizers. (Indeed, this is the point
> of pure code...) I can abort computations willy nilly. I can redo them willy
> nilly. You get a lot of bang for your buck if you're pure.
> I don't understand what the "too much IO" objection is about. If there is no
> IO (now, I don't mean a MonadIO instance, but I do mean, in order to interpret
> the monad), it seems to me that this API is not so useful.
You are forgetting about `ST`. For example, in `ErrorT SomeException ST`
finalizers /do/ make sense. It's not about having IO, it is about having
some sort of state(fulness).
>> No, you can't. MonadFinally instances must (I really should write
>> documentation) handle /all/ possible failures, not just exceptions. The
>> finally ∷ MonadRecover e μ ⇒ μ α → μ β → μ α
>> finally m f = do
>> a ← m `recover` \e → f>> abort e
>> void $ f
>> return a
>> wouldn't work in `MaybeT IO`, just consider `finally mzero f`.
> I think that's incoherent. To draw out your MaybeT IO example to its logical conclusion,
> you've just created two types of zeros, only one of which interacts with 'recover' but
> both of which interact with 'finally'. Down this inconsistency lies madness! Really,
> we'd like 'recover' to handle Nothing's: and actually we can: introduce a distinguished
> SomeException value that corresponds to nothings, and setup abort to transform that not
> into an IO exception but a pure Nothing value. Then 'finally' as written works.
I see no inconsistency here. I just give implementers an opportunity to
decide which failures are recoverable (with `recover`) and which are
not, without sacrificing proper resource/state management. You approach
rejects unrecoverable failures completely. Back to this particular case.
I implemented `MonadRecover e (MaybeT μ)` this way because that's how I
usually use `MaybeT IO`: `catch` for exceptions, `mplus` for `mzero`s.
BTW that is also how STM works: `catchSTM` for exceptions, `orElse` for
`retry`s. Ideally we should have different ways of recovering from
different kinds of failures (and some kinds should not be allowed to be
"thrown" by client code) in our abstract setting too. But I don't think
that's easily expressible in the type system we have today (at least
without confusing type inference). Injecting failures into exception
hierarchy is too value-level for me.
>>> What does it mean to have all of the above, but not to have a mask instance?
>>> One approach is to pretend asynchronous exceptions do not exist. As you do in your
>>> example, we can simply mask. I think this is a bit to give up, but I'll concede it.
>>> However, I don't think it's acceptable not to provide mask functionality, not mask
>>> your interpreter, and allow arbitrary IO. It's now impossible to properly implement
>>> many patterns without having subtle race conditions.
>> In my particular case I feel no need for asynchronous exceptions as I
>> have a concurrency primitive that is used for interrupting:
>> sh ← newOneShot
>> runAIOs s0
>> [ do
>> aioAwait sh
>> info "Service shutdown requested"
>> , ...
> Sure. And the point here is conceded, and accounted for later.
>> The problem with MonadCatchIO is that it has no proper `finally`, see my
>> `MaybeT IO` example.
> Addressed above.
>>> To contextualize this whole discussion, recall the insiduous problem that
>>> *motivated* the creation of monad-control. Suppose that we've done all of the
>>> hard work and lifted all of the Control.Exception functions to our new formula
>>> (maybe we also need uninterruptibleMask in our class, but no big matter.) Now
>>> a user comes along and asks for 'alloca :: Storable a => (Ptr a -> IO b) -> IO
>>> b'. Crap! We need to redefine alloca to work for our new monad. So in comes
>>> the class Alloca. But there are a billion, billion of these functions.
>> I don't think that's true. There is actually a limited set (induced
>> mainly by primops) of "difficult" functions that require new
>> abstractions. Alloca is a pain only because it implemented as a `IO $ \s
>> → PRIMOP_SPAGHETTI`. I don't know if the spaghetti can be twisted to
>> look something like:
>> .. = mask $ \restore → do
>> mbarr ← liftBase $ IO $ newAlignedPinnedByteArray# size align
>> finally (...) $ do
>> restore (action ptr)
>> It depends on the semantics of the primops involved. Fortunately, most
>> of IO control operations can be easily generalized just by changing the
>> type signature:
>> import qualified Control.Concurrent.MVar as MV
>> takeMVar ∷ MonadBase IO μ ⇒ MVar α → μ α
>> takeMVar = liftBase . MV.takeMVar
>> putMVar ∷ MonadBase IO μ ⇒ MVar α → α → μ α
>> putMVar v = liftBase . MV.putMVar v
>> withMVar ∷ MVar α → (α → IO β) → IO β
>> -- withMVar ∷ (MonadBase IO μ, MonadFinally μ, MonadMask m μ)
>> -- ⇒ MVar α → (α → μ β) → μ β
>> -- works too, /without changing the body/!
>> withMVar v f = mask $ \restore → do
>> a ← takeMVar v
>> restore (m a) `finally` putMVar v a
>> This `withMVar` would work as expected in IO, AIO, and transformer
>> stacks on top of them.
> OK, there are several points involved here.
> First, we might wonder, how many operations fundamentally are resistant
> to that treatment? Well, we can look at the primop list:
> So, using the method you describe, we may be able to get away with thirteen
> typeclasses. Ok... (Notice, by the way, that finally# is not on this list!
> So if /this/ was what you were thinking, I was probably thrown off by the fact
> that you included typeclasses for both primitive functions as well as
> derived ones.)
1. MonadRecover covers catch# and catchSTM#
2. MonadAbort covers raiseIO#
3. MonadMask covers maskAsyncExceptions# + maskUninterruptible# +
4. MonadPlus covers catchRetry#
5. Some class for fork# and forkOn# (capability type can be
abstracted the same way the mask type is abstracted in MonadMask)
Lifting atomically# is simple:
atomically ∷ MonadBase IO μ ⇒ STM α → μ α
atomically = liftBase . STM.atomically
check# and finalizeWeak# cannot be fully generalized because of their
semantics. Suppose we want to lift `mkWeak` to `StateT s IO` manually,
without relying on some generic mechanism. I just don't see any coherent
meaning of accessing/modifying state in the finalizer. I would start
with a partial generalization (leaving finalizer `IO ()`) and see if
someone comes up with a not-trivial (a trivial one would be ReaderT)
monad that actually properly implements the fully generalized version in
a meaningful way.
Regarding `finally`. I was certainly aware that it is not a primop,
that's why I wrote "induced /mainly/ by primops". The generalization of
`finally` is somewhat natural if you think about it. We start with IO,
there the set of reasons why control can escape is fixed, then we
proceed to MaybeT and a new "zero" pops up. Then we ask ourselves a
question "what if we had more, possibly unrecoverable, failures/zeros?".
In the end it boils down to changing `finally` documentation from
"computation to run afterward (even if an exception was raised)" to
"computation to run when control escapes".
> Second, we might wonder, how tractable is this approach? Certainly, it gives
> us another principled way of lifting all of the "hard" functions, assuming that
> all of the primops are taken care of. Of course, there are a lot of
> - It requires copy pasting code (and if upstream changes their implementation,
> so must we). I constrast this with the lifted-base method, which, while
> annoying and repetitive, does not involve copypasted code.
Notice that copy-pasting is only needed for control operations, which
are clearly a minority of the functions exported by `base`. All other
functions could be lifted the same way lifted-base does it, with liftBase.
> - Un-transforming primop'd code undos important performance optimizations
I think it would be wiser to invest time into improving GHC
specializer/optimizer than to try to sidestep the issue by choosing
> But I think there is a very important point to concede here, which is that
> without language support it may be impossible to implement 'generic' versions
> of these derived functions from the specialized ones automatically.
> lifted-base achieves the appearance of automatically lifting, but that's only
> because directly calling the original implementations is acceptable.
I think it is more about compiler/optimizer support than about
>> I hope you see that my approach is entirely different. I'm not
>> interested in lifting IO operations we have in `base` by some clever
>> ad-hoc machinery, I want to generalize (there possible) their types.
> And the logical conclusion of this is that, not only do you need to
> create a function for every function you want to generalize, you also
> need to steal all of the implementations. Which suggests that actually
> you want to be talking to the GHC team about this endeavour, since the
> situation is a bit less bad if base is maintaining the generalized versions
> as well as the specialized ones: the specialized versions can just be inlined
> versions of the generalized ones.
>> 1. Exception handling and finalizers are generic concepts that make
>> sense in many monads and therefore should not be tied to IO.
> I disagree, and submit the modification: "Exception handling and finalizers
> are generic concepts that make sense in many IO-based monads with
> alternative control flow or semantics, and therefore should not be tied to
> IO-based monads that must precisely implement IO control flow." Exception
> handling is well understood for pure code, and finalizers unnecessary.
See my note about `ErrorT SomeException ST` above. It could be IO, it
could be ST, it could be something you made in you garage this weekend.
As long as there is something stateful involved, finalizers do have a
>> 2. Regular IO functions can be generalized just by prefixing them
>> with `liftBase $`. This will make them work in any `MonadBase IO μ`.
> I disagree, and submit the modification: "Regular IO functions can be lifted
> without respect to control flow by prefixing them with liftBase. This will
> make them work in any `MonadBase IO mu'." Just because I can lift a function,
> doesn't mean it's been generalized; in particular, any more primitive functions
> it calls continue to be the original, and not generalized versions.
>> 3. Most IO control operations can be generalized just by changing
>> their type signatures to use MonadAbort/Recover/Finally/Mask (without
>> changing the body; maybe with just a few `liftBase`s here and there).
>> This will make them work at least in IO, AIO, and transformer stacks on
>> top of them.
> I agree, but submit that of the MonadAbort/Recover/Finally/Mask quartet
> Finally should be dropped and Abort/Recover/Mask unified into one typeclass.
I disagree. MonadFinally is important for having unrecoverable failures
and MonadAbort/MonadRecover split is exactly the same as
If you really want to merge MonadMask, I recommend
class (MonadRecover SomeException μ, Ord m, Bounded m)
⇒ MonadCatch m μ | μ → m where
-- `h` /must/ be masked with `minBound ∷ m` by implementation.
-- Notice that `recover m (mask_ . h)` won't do in general, as an
-- asynchronous exception can arrive just before `mask_`.
catch ∷ Exception e ⇒ μ α → (e → μ α) → μ α
catch m h = recover m $ \e → maybe (throw e) h (fromException e)
getMaskingState ∷ μ m
getMaskingState = return minBound
setMaskingState ∷ m → μ α → μ α
setMaskingState = const id
>> 4. IO control operations that rely on passing IO actions to a primop
>> (like, presumably, `alloca`) should be generalized the monad-control way
>> (which is OK, I don't see how I can lift it to AIO anyway, even if I try
>> to do it manually). Partial generalizations like `alloca' ∷ (Storable α,
>> MonadBase IO μ) ⇒ (Ptr α → IO β) → μ β` might also be useful.
> I (surprisingly) disagree, and submit that they /can/ be generalized the
> copy pasting way, and if such a change is coordinated with the base teams,
> could be the preferred mechanism.
> 1. The only known semantics of asynchronous exceptions involves the
> primitives abort, recover and mask, and this semantics can be converted
> into one that is synchronous if we supply a no-op definition for mask and
> require the semantics stay the same. It seems poor for this semantics to
> grow to include finally or for this semantics to contract to have abort
> without recover, or recover without abort. But this is not a fundamental
> point, and while there are lots of different exception handling semantics,
> it's possible specialized applications could make sense with limited
> combinators: however, *show me the semantics.*
> 2. Finalizer handling is not necessary in pure code.
Hopefully I addressed both (1) and (2).
> 3. A way of cleaning up the IO sin bin would be to generalize appropriate
> primitive functions over appropriate type classes, and then copy pasting
> the source for all derived definitions. I submit that doing so as a third
> party is a bad idea. I submit that we can do this incrementally, and that
> it's not that bad of an idea if you can convince the GHC team it's a good
> idea. Exception handling might be a good place to start. (An issue to
> consider: what about the interaction of orthogonal features?)
I wouldn't be too optimistic about convincing GHC HQ. Even making
Applicative a superclass of Monad can make Haskell98 nazis come after
you in ninja suits.
Regarding orthogonal features. What exactly do you have in mind?
> 4. (3) is the only way of getting an appropriate behavior for models of IO
> with weird control flow. So, I agree with you, monad-control is no good
> for AIO, and your essential idea is necessary. (Though, Anders claims that
> at some point he figured out how to fix the ContT problem for monad-peel; I
> should poke him again on this point.)
This is interesting.
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