Primary mailing list for the programming language Lua

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Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez. | 25 Jun 2012 12:48

Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

Hello all.

I am pretty new to LUA.

I had heard of it over a year or so, but thought it was just for game development.

Now we are looking forward to develop some small software utilities for engineers to be used with a tablet.

We would like to run de apps in iPads and Android tablets (and probably windows 8 in the future).

Having the apps running under windows o linux would be great (in a traditional form, with keyboard and mouse).

As they are so radically different devices and development platforms, it makes sense to use a high level platform and scripting language like LUA (the apps won’t be power hungry).

I liked LUA language and its philosophy a lot.

But I don’t know which is the best widgets framework to use.

I have been reading about CORONA.

It can create apps for iOS and Android, and generate the packages to upload them to theapple market or google apps market.

But it seems too oriented to the game development, its widgets seem rudimentary, and it don’t let us run the program in windows/linux.

The LUA universe seems to have pretty nice packages like CD, IM and IUP to draw images and to have a good set of widgets platform independent.

But IUP seems to run in Linux and windows, but I don’t know if somebody port IUP for the iOS and Android platforms.

As it seems to be developed in C, it should be portable to iOS, but Apple seems like not being happy with having other development platforms for iOS other than its Objective –C/XCODE.

Android is mainly based in java, so I don’t know if porting IUP and other LUA libraries is possible at all without huge recoding.

Is anybody out there using standard LUA libraries like CD and IUP for tablet apps development?

Once developed, may you put them in a package that can be distributed the iPAD and Android markets?

I know there is an SDK from Google for language scripting which supports LUA, but it seems to be targeted to use google set of widgets, and then the apps won’t be compatible with other OSES.

Thank you for your advice, opinions and guidance.

Regards

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steve donovan | 25 Jun 2012 13:03

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
<ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
> I am pretty new to LUA.

It is called Lua, which is a word.

> I had heard of it over a year or so, but thought it was just for game
> development.

Oh no, people do really serious things with Lua!

It will be easier to pick a platform and work with that - e.g for iOS
there are ways to bridge Lua with Cocoa, and for Android there are
Java bindings like LuaJava.

Also, Mono has been getting popular (although not free? [1]) as a
portable platform, in which case there's LuaInterface.

steve d.

[1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7936066/mono-for-ios-android-open-or-closed-paid-or-free

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Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez. | 25 Jun 2012 22:37

RE: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

Thank you for your answer, Steve.
I know now that Lua is used for serious things. I have seen many of the screens in 3D in petroleum surveying ande things like that.
I am impressed.

I have been all the afternoon reading information about MonoDroid and MonoTouch.

I knew about Mono, but I had no idea that it could be used for developing under iOS or Android.

I fact I thought you could not develop in C# in iOS, but I see I was under a mistake.

We have expertize developing in C# and .NET (windows framework), so it would be more familiar to us at first.
Anywaw Lua seems a good way to implement part of the code, and let the user program some routines or functions for getting the software do what it exactly wants.
But as long as I know LuaInterface seems to work only in the Windows world and CLR.

The problem with Mono seems to be that you have to develop the interface for each target platform.
There is the WinForms classes developed in C#, but they seem not to be ported to the Android or iOS world.
The same with GTk# or wxWidgets.

It seems you have to develop the UI entirely to the native UI classes, but you can reuse other parts of the code.

I know that you cannot just develop a tablet app interface as if it were a desktop computer.
But I would like to have the same UI controls like lists, buttons, etc, eve if the frame classes are different or the input methods.

But it would be easier to develop for different targets using classes with a similar philosophy.

I don't expect to have a sophiticated interface in the first version, just somthing that works.
That were my expectations: something that let me have working interface with several displays that later could be evolve into something more elaborated.

In Lua it seems the problem is similar: if you use the ports of lua for the different platforms, you need to elaborate radically differente interfaces for each system (may be similar in look but completly different programming).

The only thing that seems to have a common base is Corona.
But it seems its widgets collection is too scarce. It seems more oriented for painting in the display, image reproduction, but not really a interface framework.

Am I wrong?

thanks
Fernando

> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:03:13 +0200
> From: steve.j.donovan <at> gmail.com
> To: lua-l <at> lists.lua.org
> Subject: Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
> <ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
> > I am pretty new to LUA.
>
> It is called Lua, which is a word.
>
> > I had heard of it over a year or so, but thought it was just for game
> > development.
>
> Oh no, people do really serious things with Lua!
>
> It will be easier to pick a platform and work with that - e.g for iOS
> there are ways to bridge Lua with Cocoa, and for Android there are
> Java bindings like LuaJava.
>
> Also, Mono has been getting popular (although not free? [1]) as a
> portable platform, in which case there's LuaInterface.
>
> steve d.
>
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7936066/mono-for-ios-android-open-or-closed-paid-or-free
>

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steve donovan | 26 Jun 2012 08:17

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
<ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
> I knew about Mono, but I had no idea that it could be used for developing
> under iOS or Android.

Yeah, I must say I prefer C# to Java.  It has long passed being a
'Java clone' and has been good in forcing Java to modernize.

> But as long as I know LuaInterface seems to work only in the Windows world
> and CLR.

We're working on it ;)

> It seems you have to develop the UI entirely to the native UI classes, but
> you can reuse other parts of the code.

That is probably a good way to organize an application, so that the
GUI part is relatively small and contains no 'business logic'.

steve d.

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Thomas Fletcher | 25 Jun 2012 13:35

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

From: "Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez." <ariznaf <at> ingdes.org>
Reply-To: Lua mailing list <lua-l <at> lists.lua.org>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:48:50 +0200
To: <lua-l <at> lists.lua.org>
Subject: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

Hello all.

I am pretty new to LUA.

I had heard of it over a year or so, but thought it was just for game development.

Now we are looking forward to develop some small software utilities for engineers to be used with a tablet.

We would like to run de apps in iPads and Android tablets (and probably windows 8 in the future).

Having the apps running under windows o linux would be great (in a traditional form, with keyboard and mouse).

[ Other general requirements for product development snipped ]

You might find Crank Software's Storyboard Suite to be of interest [1].

It supports most major embedded platforms including Android and Linux based platforms. It is designed specifically for

application UI development and supports a "direct from PSD" model for initial application import meaning that you

don't have to spend time mucking around trying to re-skin widgets to get the look and feel you want.

Of course relevant to your main question ... all of its glue logic and system integration is done using Lua!

Thomas

[1] http://www.cranksoftware.com/storyboard

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Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez. | 25 Jun 2012 22:52

RE: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:35:09 -0400
From: thomas <at> cranksoftware.com
To: lua-l <at> lists.lua.org
Subject: Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

I found the software quite interesting for embebed system development.

But it seems too advance and sophiticated for our modest intent.

We just try to make a "standard app" that could be run under several tablet platforms, no to develop a sophiticated embebded system.

And users should be able to download the app just as they do with other apps for their platform (iOS or Android).

Installing an embeded runtime for running the app is not an option (I could not understand if crank software installs its own runtime in the tablet target or compiles to the target).

But crank software has several products under storyboard umbrella, may be I am missing the point an there is really a product for what we want: develop the user interface using a RAD tool and program logic under Lua.

I am not asking for free software, but our budget is limited (we can not afford a 2000$ license fee, don¡t know the price of storyboard suite).

Thank you for your guidance, I would be gratefull if you can clarify some of my questions about storyboard.

Fernando

You might find Crank Software's Storyboard Suite to be of interest [1].

It supports most major embedded platforms including Android and Linux based platforms. It is designed specifically for

application UI development and supports a "direct from PSD" model for initial application import meaning that you

don't have to spend time mucking around trying to re-skin widgets to get the look and feel you want.

Of course relevant to your main question ... all of its glue logic and system integration is done using Lua!

Thomas

[1] http://www.cranksoftware.com/storyboard

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Thomas Fletcher | 26 Jun 2012 17:17

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

> From:  "Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez." <ariznaf <at> ingdes.org>
>________________________________________
>Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:35:09 -0400
>From: thomas <at> cranksoftware.com
>To: lua-l <at> lists.lua.org
>Subject: Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?
> 

 
>I found the software quite interesting for embebed system development.
>But it seems too advance and sophiticated for our modest intent.
>We just try to make a "standard app" that could be run under several
>tablet platforms, no to develop
>a sophiticated embebded system.
> And users should be able to download the app just as they do with other
>apps for their platform (iOS or Android).
> Installing an embeded runtime for running the app is not an option (I
>could not understand if crank software installs its > own runtime in the
>tablet target or compiles to the target).

> But crank software has several products under storyboard umbrella, may
>be I am missing the point an there is really a >
> product for what we want: develop the user interface using a RAD tool
>and program logic under Lua.

> I am not asking for free software, but our budget is limited (we can not
>afford a 2000$ license fee, don¡t know the price > of storyboard suite).

> Thank you for your guidance, I would be gratefull if you can clarify
>some of my questions about storyboard.

One of the embedded targets that Storyboard can generate a package for is
Android.  In this case what
Storyboard will generate will be an APK that can be dropped onto any phone
or tablet (or other Android
based device).

While Storyboard can certainly be used to develop sophisticated embedded
user interfaces, it can also be
used to quickly generate simple single screen applications.  If you
download the full evaluation (free)
then you will see just how quickly you can build an application if you
have some of the images from the
UI that you want to incorporate.  What you can do in 5 minutes with
Storyboard is typically a day or
more of work with most environments.

Of course as you mention, Storyboard is a commercial product so that may
hinder your ability to select
it, but I would certainly encourage you to give it a try.

Thanks,
 Thomas

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Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez. | 26 Jun 2012 23:28

RE: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

Thank you, Thomas.
I will put storyboard in the list then. It is important for us to be able to develop the app once and run in several targets without too much recoding (we will be very few people developing and want to develop several apps targeting different engineering tools, and would like to dedicate the time improving the engeneering solution and not fighting against several UI frameworks).

So, if Crank can run in Android, windows phone, windows and other platforms out of the box (without the burden of generating an embeded system), and develope the UI easily, it is a software we should give a try.

But Storyboard does no seem to run under iOS, does it?

I don't have iPad and Apple targets in great appreciation, but iPad is an initial requirement, as one of the guys in the team says it is a platform widely spread among the mining and civil engineers.

Thanks to your colaboration and to Steve and the ideas provided in these thread know I have more options and konwing of the limitations.

Simply put I see these solutions:

1- Crank storyboard. Easy to develope UI and multiplatform, Lua compatible and meets our requirements, except may be for the iOS compatibility, which may make it not an option (I have to discuss with the team if iOS is that important or not). Price may be another limitation (don't know license price, but I expect it not to be cheap).

2- Corona. It is easy to develop for iOS and Android, but its UI widgets are too limited, and it seems not easily extensible with libraries of any kind written in C or C++. Its price is reasonable.

3- Use the scripting SDK for Android and a Lua interpreter and iPhone wax in iOS generating a Lua interpreter in Objective-C with no modification. Code the application entirely in Lua but use the native UI widgets (wax to access the iOS interfaces and the google scripting sdk to access the native widgets of Android).
I think it won't be difficult to get the interpreters running (although we have no expertise with Objective-C at all, but we have coded in C++ and C).
The problem is that we have to learn the two native UI frameworks.
There is no license fees for the developing environment, but will take more time to get it running the first time (if we can do it).

4- An alternative that I don't know if is feasable is to generate a Lua interpreter containing the IUP and CD and IM C libraries. It seems Objective-C is able to compile code in C++ an C, and it should be posible to link a C library with it (I am not sure of this). Android and its NDK seem to be able to compile C code too.
Thus we would be able to generate the interface completly in Lua and UIP. To access tablet special functions like the GPS, accelerometer or gestures, we still will have to write some native code.
It should be posible, but don't know if we are going to be able to do it, as we have no expertize with objective-C or the Android NDK.
Do you think it is a real posibility? Is it that difficulto to compile IUP, CD and IM libraries to iOS and Android?

5-Use Mono and C# for most of the development (MonoTouch and MonoDroid). It seems entirely feasable, but we have to develop completly separate interfaces for Android and iOS, as in option 3.
If we want to integrate Lua to be able to run user scripts (not posible in iOS due to licensing limitaions) there is a Lua interpreter written in C# that we could integrate in the application.

These are the options I know off, each one with its pros and cons (may be I am a bit optimistic with option 4 ;) ).

If any of you or other have any comments about these options, any opinions will be wellcome.

Regards
Fernando

> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:17:00 -0400
> From: thomas <at> cranksoftware.com
> Subject: Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?
> To: ariznaf <at> uniovi.es; lua-l <at> lists.lua.org
>
> > From: "Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez." <ariznaf <at> ingdes.org>
> >________________________________________
> >Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:35:09 -0400
> >From: thomas <at> cranksoftware.com
> >To: lua-l <at> lists.lua.org
> >Subject: Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?
> >
>
>
> >I found the software quite interesting for embebed system development.
> >But it seems too advance and sophiticated for our modest intent.
> >We just try to make a "standard app" that could be run under several
> >tablet platforms, no to develop
> >a sophiticated embebded system.
> > And users should be able to download the app just as they do with other
> >apps for their platform (iOS or Android).
> > Installing an embeded runtime for running the app is not an option (I
> >could not understand if crank software installs its > own runtime in the
> >tablet target or compiles to the target).
>
> > But crank software has several products under storyboard umbrella, may
> >be I am missing the point an there is really a >
> > product for what we want: develop the user interface using a RAD tool
> >and program logic under Lua.
>
> > I am not asking for free software, but our budget is limited (we can not
> >afford a 2000$ license fee, don¡t know the price > of storyboard suite).
>
> > Thank you for your guidance, I would be gratefull if you can clarify
> >some of my questions about storyboard.
>
>
> One of the embedded targets that Storyboard can generate a package for is
> Android. In this case what
> Storyboard will generate will be an APK that can be dropped onto any phone
> or tablet (or other Android
> based device).
>
> While Storyboard can certainly be used to develop sophisticated embedded
> user interfaces, it can also be
> used to quickly generate simple single screen applications. If you
> download the full evaluation (free)
> then you will see just how quickly you can build an application if you
> have some of the images from the
> UI that you want to incorporate. What you can do in 5 minutes with
> Storyboard is typically a day or
> more of work with most environments.
>
> Of course as you mention, Storyboard is a commercial product so that may
> hinder your ability to select
> it, but I would certainly encourage you to give it a try.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
>
>
>

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Javier Guerra Giraldez | 26 Jun 2012 23:48

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
<ariznaf <at> uniovi.es> wrote:
> Do you think it is a real posibility? Is it that difficulto to compile IUP,
> CD and IM libraries to iOS and Android?

any GUI library is developed against a given graphic platform; android
and iOS are really different from win32 and Xlib.  'compiling' would
in fact mean 'porting' to a new platform.

on top of that, you really don't want a windowing GUI on a touch-based
device.  these are very different beasts.

--

-- 
Javier

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Michal Kottman | 26 Jun 2012 23:55

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

On 26 June 2012 23:48, Javier Guerra Giraldez <javier <at> guerrag.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
> <ariznaf <at> uniovi.es> wrote:
>> Do you think it is a real posibility? Is it that difficulto to compile IUP,
>> CD and IM libraries to iOS and Android?
>
> any GUI library is developed against a given graphic platform; android
> and iOS are really different from win32 and Xlib.  'compiling' would
> in fact mean 'porting' to a new platform.

Well, you can run Qt on Android [1], you can run Lua on Android, and
you can use Qt from Lua [2]. I'm not saying it will work, but in
theory, if someone has a lot of free time.... :)

> on top of that, you really don't want a windowing GUI on a touch-based
> device.  these are very different beasts.

Well, you can use Qt [1] and Mono [3] on Android, both of which are
primarily a "windowing GUI" framweworks. Qt is used a lot on embedded
devices (owned by Nokia).

[1] http://sourceforge.net/p/necessitas/home/necessitas/
[2] https://github.com/mkottman/lqt
[3] http://xamarin.com/monoforandroid

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Javier Guerra Giraldez | 27 Jun 2012 01:25

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Michal Kottman <k0mpjut0r <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> any GUI library is developed against a given graphic platform; android
>> and iOS are really different from win32 and Xlib.  'compiling' would
>> in fact mean 'porting' to a new platform.
>
> Well, you can run Qt on Android [1], you can run Lua on Android, and
> you can use Qt from Lua [2]. I'm not saying it will work, but in
> theory, if someone has a lot of free time.... :)

Qt, but not IUP

Qt is a _very_ well designed platform, with a long history on embedded
devices.  It has a non-windowing 'flavor' that predates smartphones by
many years.  it even runs on NaCL inside Chrome!

>> on top of that, you really don't want a windowing GUI on a touch-based
>> device.  these are very different beasts.
>
> Well, you can use Qt [1] and Mono [3] on Android, both of which are
> primarily a "windowing GUI" framweworks. Qt is used a lot on embedded
> devices (owned by Nokia).

I wouldn't call Qt a 'windowing GUI'.  QtCreator still has a symbian
target with a full cross-compiler.  I don't know how well it handles
touch events (which are not usual mouse events), but i know QtDesigner
behaves differently on such targets.

haven't checked mono what parts of mono run on smartphones and what
not; but i do know that monotouch and monodroid are separate
non-compatible efforts.  both are targetable by monodevelop, but it's
not a crossplatform environment.  you can't run windows apps there.

returning to your original question, it seems right now the best
options to use Lua as a cross-device platform are Corona and Gideros.
the first seem more mature, the latter less expensive (especially if
you want to add native plugins)

I'm just (re)checking the "Scripting Layer for Android (SL4A)", which
seems much more complete; but they simply expose most of the android
APIs to scripting languages, again it doesn't help with iOS.

--

-- 
Javier

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Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez. | 27 Jun 2012 09:18

RE: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

Thank you both for your answers.
I did not knew about Gideros, I will have a look at it.

Porting Qt by ourselves is not an option, as we have no experience with Qt nor the NDK or XCODE. It would be a long path to follow.

The original UI being a windowing system is not such a problem.

I don't expect to compile a windows or Linux program for Android or iOS and have it running smoothly.
And we are targeting tablets, not phones (with much more display capacity).

Every UI framework has some kind of basic frame or something like a fullscreen dialog that could evolve into a full screen page where you could drop your controls to make the UI.
What I would expect to be cross platform is the controls and is behaviour.
wxWidgets would be a great option, and there seems to be some ports of a subset for windows phones and alikes, but they are not in the Mono distribution for Android or iOS.

Qt# isn't either.

MonoTouch and MonoAndroid are not exactly a cross platform system developement, you are right. You can share almost all of your code except the user interface, as they just expose the underlying native frameworks in C# classes. No crossplatform development there.

As IUP is written in C and seems a self contained system (just depending in an underlying library for drawing basic primitives), I would have expected it to be easily ported to several platforms. But may be it is not all that easy, as nobody seems to have done it.

In our applications we don't need sophisticated input like multitouch or controlling it with de gyroscope or something like that. Just traditional sliders, keyborad input and using the touch screen like a mouse, to select menu options, touch buttons and things like those.

If you want to add multitouch events, gyroscope control or other sophisticated controls, it is evident that you have to use the native classes, meanwhile there is no such things in a multiplatform framework like wxWidgets.

Again it seems not to be a lightweight UI framework that could target iOS and Android at the same time.
There are ports for windows phones or nokia, but not for iOS or Android.

It seems the Android and iOS development is not mature enough for that, and Apple does not help with its licensing agreements and philosophy. Google imposes some problems too, restricting C/C++ development and forcing to use java in their system.

It seems tha MS is going to do much the same in Windows 8, forcing you to use C# or other CLR languages, and not letting you to compile C or C++ code.
There Mono and the win32 interface (written in C#) will be much more easy to port.

Not easy to decide what to use. I have to go deepder in Crank Storyboard.

Thank you all.

> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:25:47 -0500
> From: javier <at> guerrag.com
> To: lua-l <at> lists.lua.org
> Subject: Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Michal Kottman <k0mpjut0r <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> >> any GUI library is developed against a given graphic platform; android
> >> and iOS are really different from win32 and Xlib. 'compiling' would
> >> in fact mean 'porting' to a new platform.
> >
> > Well, you can run Qt on Android [1], you can run Lua on Android, and
> > you can use Qt from Lua [2]. I'm not saying it will work, but in
> > theory, if someone has a lot of free time.... :)
>
> Qt, but not IUP
>
> Qt is a _very_ well designed platform, with a long history on embedded
> devices. It has a non-windowing 'flavor' that predates smartphones by
> many years. it even runs on NaCL inside Chrome!
>
> >> on top of that, you really don't want a windowing GUI on a touch-based
> >> device. these are very different beasts.
> >
> > Well, you can use Qt [1] and Mono [3] on Android, both of which are
> > primarily a "windowing GUI" framweworks. Qt is used a lot on embedded
> > devices (owned by Nokia).
>
> I wouldn't call Qt a 'windowing GUI'. QtCreator still has a symbian
> target with a full cross-compiler. I don't know how well it handles
> touch events (which are not usual mouse events), but i know QtDesigner
> behaves differently on such targets.
>
> haven't checked mono what parts of mono run on smartphones and what
> not; but i do know that monotouch and monodroid are separate
> non-compatible efforts. both are targetable by monodevelop, but it's
> not a crossplatform environment. you can't run windows apps there.
>
>
> returning to your original question, it seems right now the best
> options to use Lua as a cross-device platform are Corona and Gideros.
> the first seem more mature, the latter less expensive (especially if
> you want to add native plugins)
>
> I'm just (re)checking the "Scripting Layer for Android (SL4A)", which
> seems much more complete; but they simply expose most of the android
> APIs to scripting languages, again it doesn't help with iOS.
>
>
> --
> Javier
>

headers

steve donovan | 27 Jun 2012 09:38

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
<ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
> As IUP is written in C and seems a self contained system (just depending in
> an underlying library for drawing basic primitives), I would have expected
> it to be easily ported to several platforms.

It's already a bitch to compile on a _supported_ platform, but I digress ;)

> It seems the Android and iOS development is not mature enough for that, and
> Apple does not help with its licensing agreements and philosophy.

Basically, they do not want you to download scripts. That would be
hard to control and verify, and (besides) would mess with the walled
garden model. They do not want you to sell gardening kits, they want
you to sell flowers. But iOS games can and do use Lua internally
(Apple had to backslide on that)

> Google imposes some problems too, restricting C/C++ development and forcing to use
> java in their system.

Ah, but you can use their equivalent of JNI to link in C code. That's
how LuaJava works, native Lua shared library with a Java wrapper.
Vadimi Peretokin has used this strategy very successfully.  The cool
thing about something like LuaJava is that the capabilities of the
platform are directly available via reflection - no explicit
'bindings' necessary.  (And that of course also applies to C#.)

In summary, nearly everything can be done in Lua, but the challenging
thing is to design a portability layer so that your GUI code does not
work directly with the underlying API.  I agree with Jay that being
dogmatic is foolish and degenerates into religion. But separation of
concerns remains one of our chief weapons against complexity.

steve d.

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Pierre-Yves Gérardy | 27 Jun 2012 15:53

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
<ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
> Thank you both for your answers.
> I did not knew about Gideros, I will have a look at it.

While you're at it, you may want to look at Moai as well then. I
didn't suggest it at first because you were looking for a general app
toolkit and Moai's primary focus is games, but, even though it doesn't
have builtin GUI capabilities, there are third party solutions like
this: https://github.com/derickd/moaigui. It is full themeable.

Moai supports the native iOS keyboard, and Android keyboard support is
in the works (it is functional, but needs to be refactored and
merged).

Moai is open source attributionware: free to use and modify as long as
you display proper attribution give back the modifications made to the
core engine. The license is not viral.

-- Pierre-Yves

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Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez. | 29 Jun 2012 08:49

RE: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

I have been reading about moai and Gideros.

MoaiGUI seems a good thing, although it is not completly developed.

But it seems a system completly game oriented.

The problem with that is that if we need some functions like sockets, database access or something like that, we won't find it in the game system, probably, and then you will have to recreate the interpreter and compile it under each platform (not all that easy for somebody with no expertize y XCODE or Android NDK development).
If we have to do that, we could use plain lua.

We will have to test several options and see what can be expected from them.

Now at least, we know of much more options thanks to the advice of this community.

Thank you all.
Fernando

> From: pygy79 <at> gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:53:29 +0200
> To: lua-l <at> lists.lua.org
> Subject: Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
> <ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
> > Thank you both for your answers.
> > I did not knew about Gideros, I will have a look at it.
>
> While you're at it, you may want to look at Moai as well then. I
> didn't suggest it at first because you were looking for a general app
> toolkit and Moai's primary focus is games, but, even though it doesn't
> have builtin GUI capabilities, there are third party solutions like
> this: https://github.com/derickd/moaigui. It is full themeable.
>
> Moai supports the native iOS keyboard, and Android keyboard support is
> in the works (it is functional, but needs to be refactored and
> merged).
>
> Moai is open source attributionware: free to use and modify as long as
> you display proper attribution give back the modifications made to the
> core engine. The license is not viral.
>
> -- Pierre-Yves
>

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Paul K | 29 Jun 2012 09:25

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

Hi Fernando,

> The problem with that is that if we need some functions like sockets,
> database access or something like that, we won't find it in the game system,
> probably, and then you will have to recreate the interpreter and compile it
> under each platform (not all that easy for somebody with no expertize y
> XCODE or Android NDK development).
> If we have to do that, we could use plain lua.

If you're looking for a general framework, I suggest you also look at
Mosync (http://mosync.com) and MobileLua that runs on top of it
(https://github.com/divineprog/mobilelua). It's a thin layer running
inside a Lua interpreter with Lua interface to mosync API that gives
you access to all device functions (including socket and db
interfaces). I've used it for both iOS and Android (with the same Lua
code running in both places) and they also claim support for
WindowsPhone, although I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I also
developed a debugger that supports remote debugging of applications
running on a mobile device (on top of mobileLua) from an ide running
on a desktop (https://github.com/pkulchenko/MobDebug).

Paul.

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
<ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
> I have been reading about moai and Gideros.
>
> MoaiGUI seems a good thing, although it is not completly developed.
>
> But it seems a system completly game oriented.
>
> The problem with that is that if we need some functions like sockets,
> database access or something like that, we won't find it in the game system,
> probably, and then you will have to recreate the interpreter and compile it
> under each platform (not all that easy for somebody with no expertize y
> XCODE or Android NDK development).
> If we have to do that, we could use plain lua.
>
> We will have to test several options and see what can be expected from them.
>
> Now at least, we know of much more options thanks to the advice of this
> community.
>
> Thank you all.
> Fernando
>
>> From: pygy79 <at> gmail.com
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 15:53:29 +0200
>
>> To: lua-l <at> lists.lua.org
>> Subject: Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
>> <ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
>> > Thank you both for your answers.
>> > I did not knew about Gideros, I will have a look at it.
>>
>> While you're at it, you may want to look at Moai as well then. I
>> didn't suggest it at first because you were looking for a general app
>> toolkit and Moai's primary focus is games, but, even though it doesn't
>> have builtin GUI capabilities, there are third party solutions like
>> this: https://github.com/derickd/moaigui. It is full themeable.
>>
>> Moai supports the native iOS keyboard, and Android keyboard support is
>> in the works (it is functional, but needs to be refactored and
>> merged).
>>
>> Moai is open source attributionware: free to use and modify as long as
>> you display proper attribution give back the modifications made to the
>> core engine. The license is not viral.
>>
>> -- Pierre-Yves
>>

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steve donovan | 29 Jun 2012 10:22

Re: Best framework to LUA developing in Tablets? Is it possible?

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez.
<ariznaf <at> ingdes.org> wrote:
> Now at least, we know of much more options thanks to the advice of this
> community.

It has been a most interesting thread, and it would be cool if some
kind soul would make a Lua Wiki page on MobileLua - at least capturing
the links.  Thereafter, people can add commentary.

I will also update the UFAQ entry, but that's not the place for details.

steve d.