gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.smallwiki

Sean Allen | 20 Aug 14:50

the idiot's guide to pier

I'm feeling like I need one.

I've been playing around with Pier for a couple days and well... I  
don't feel much further along when than when I started.
Basic things like...

how you change the style, theme, layout whatever you want to call it  
are simply a mystery to me.

Is there a 'these are the must know basics' guide?

I went back to sometime last year in the archives, tried googling,  
read stuff on the wiki and off of Lukas's site
but still feel utterly lost.

I see there is a PRPierFrame that everything else is inside. Do I  
remove the children
from it, rearrange them? Write my own?

That is just one basic thing I'm not grasping..

Any links to getting started basics would be greatly appreciated. in  
the meantime, back
to trying to figure this out.

Thanks.
Sean

_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...

(Continue reading)

headers

cdrick | 20 Aug 15:06

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

Hi,

2008/8/20 Sean Allen <sean <at> monkeysnatchbanana.com>:
> I'm feeling like I need one.
>
> I've been playing around with Pier for a couple days and well... I
> don't feel much further along when than when I started.
> Basic things like...
>
> how you change the style, theme, layout whatever you want to call it
> are simply a mystery to me.

I think your concern is only the aspect of Pier.
Out of the box, it's done by a kind of template page called that can
be redefined.
There, once logged as Admin (admin:pier by default) I guess, you can
edit this page:
http://localhost:8888/seaside/pier/environment

In view mode, you should have displayed:
Environment
Unable to fully display recursive composition.

Once in edit mode, you'll see some html but only the div parts. It's
actually a classic Pier page, where you can add components like
heading, counter, blog archives, etc... But to structure it, you
should have div's composition, so a template that coupled with CSS
will give you the look you want.
It's not that easy to do but think of it as a classic wiki pages with
some inner html elements for layout. Mine looks like:

(Continue reading)

headers

stéphane ducasse | 20 Aug 16:43

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

you are not the only one :)

Stef

On Aug 20, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Sean Allen wrote:

> I'm feeling like I need one.
>
> I've been playing around with Pier for a couple days and well... I
> don't feel much further along when than when I started.
> Basic things like...
>
> how you change the style, theme, layout whatever you want to call it
> are simply a mystery to me.
>
> Is there a 'these are the must know basics' guide?
>
> I went back to sometime last year in the archives, tried googling,
> read stuff on the wiki and off of Lukas's site
> but still feel utterly lost.
>
> I see there is a PRPierFrame that everything else is inside. Do I
> remove the children
> from it, rearrange them? Write my own?
>
> That is just one basic thing I'm not grasping..
>
> Any links to getting started basics would be greatly appreciated. in
> the meantime, back
> to trying to figure this out.

(Continue reading)

headers

cdrick | 20 Aug 17:33

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

2008/8/20 stéphane ducasse <ducasse <at> iam.unibe.ch>:
> you are not the only one :)
>
> Stef
>

I find the difficulty of Pier is its... simplicity, uniformity... A
bit like Smalltalk. All is a structure (wich is meta-described
etc...). It's hard to have a user guide as Pier is more powerful than
a classic CMS or wiki. We could have some but it will inevitably
restricts the usage possibilities of Pier.  This said, I think we
could agree on some directions to bring help under the form of
tutorials etc..:

How-To use Pier (user)
1-wiki syntax

How-To use Pier (admin)
2-admin/user right management
3-admin content mamangment (rules)
4-edit versus settings (I think this is important)
5-How to integrate seaside component (easy for a counter, more
complicated when an apps that require its own session...)
6-How-to change the layout, eventually use template here but his is
not "out the box". I think Keith did some work in this area but I
didn't really used it

How-To Develop components for Pier
7-How to interact with Structure, persistency, logs
8-How to create structure (different of a seaside component...)

(Continue reading)

headers

David Zmick | 20 Aug 17:45

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

I'm working on moving some templates from http://andreasviklund.com/ over to pier, and I will make file libraries for them that you can add to your pier apps. I would really like to write a "idiots guide"(mind if I use that title if I ever get around to it?). I have lots of big ideas...

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM, cdrick <cdrick65 <at> gmail.com> wrote:

2008/8/20 stéphane ducasse <ducasse <at> iam.unibe.ch>:
> you are not the only one :)
>
> Stef
>

I find the difficulty of Pier is its... simplicity, uniformity... A
bit like Smalltalk. All is a structure (wich is meta-described
etc...). It's hard to have a user guide as Pier is more powerful than
a classic CMS or wiki. We could have some but it will inevitably
restricts the usage possibilities of Pier. This said, I think we
could agree on some directions to bring help under the form of
tutorials etc..:

How-To use Pier (user)
1-wiki syntax

How-To use Pier (admin)
2-admin/user right management
3-admin content mamangment (rules)
4-edit versus settings (I think this is important)
5-How to integrate seaside component (easy for a counter, more
complicated when an apps that require its own session...)
6-How-to change the layout, eventually use template here but his is
not "out the box". I think Keith did some work in this area but I
didn't really used it

How-To Develop components for Pier
7-How to interact with Structure, persistency, logs
8-How to create structure (different of a seaside component...)
...

This is just what I'll find useful as documentation... but no time to
help there right now.

Also, I think we need to have an admin page per defaut (that will ease
people management of the Pier site...) - System managements (user
group system update google analytics). Maybe I can find some time in
the next days to do such a page. I can evetually add a default blog
page (with its own environment to display blog related component).
What do you think Lukas ? This is kind of restricting, but that could
be a better default setup for newcomers ? Maybe there's a need for a
"Pier distribution" called... moor ;)

Cheers,

Cédrick

_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

--
David Zmick
/dz0004455\
http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
http://dz0004455.blogspot.com


_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

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Sean Allen | 20 Aug 18:09

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

Well, I think I can some this up as a 'wholly disheartening' thread.

I've tried using the small wiki archives but they arent exactly easy  
to use or find info in
and then when you do find something, it can be quite old and you arent  
sure if the information
is dated.

So what is the best way to get this kind of info?
Once I get it, what is best way to contribute it back so that FAQs and  
documentation are meaningful
to people approaching Pier?

I'm convinced given the direction we are taking our websites that Pier  
needs to be an integral
part, I'm just rather depressed that I'm going to have to expend a ton  
of energy to figure out things
like 'o the environment, go there and edit, that is how you can the  
layout.' I'm having mental nightmares
that even though the seaside integration is perfect for us that it  
will be lost in what appears
to be a massive learning curve. Any pier experts available for  
contract work, working through
initial setup w/ me? Doing remote teaching of the ins and outs?

_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

headers

David Zmick | 20 Aug 18:19

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

There isnt info, if you need help with anything specific, ask us, I ma working on documentation, because I recently had the same problem you are having, but, with the help of the community, I have gotten it figured out,, and I really like it! Just ask, answers will come :)

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Sean Allen <sean <at> monkeysnatchbanana.com> wrote:

Well, I think I can some this up as a 'wholly disheartening' thread.

I've tried using the small wiki archives but they arent exactly easy
to use or find info in
and then when you do find something, it can be quite old and you arent
sure if the information
is dated.

So what is the best way to get this kind of info?
Once I get it, what is best way to contribute it back so that FAQs and
documentation are meaningful
to people approaching Pier?

I'm convinced given the direction we are taking our websites that Pier
needs to be an integral
part, I'm just rather depressed that I'm going to have to expend a ton
of energy to figure out things
like 'o the environment, go there and edit, that is how you can the
layout.' I'm having mental nightmares
that even though the seaside integration is perfect for us that it
will be lost in what appears
to be a massive learning curve. Any pier experts available for
contract work, working through
initial setup w/ me? Doing remote teaching of the ins and outs?

_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

--
David Zmick
/dz0004455\
http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
http://dz0004455.blogspot.com


_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

headers

David Zmick | 20 Aug 18:29

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

Look at my site http://w337.uni.cc that I am working on right now, ask me how to do anything i did

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:19 AM, David Zmick <dz0004455 <at> gmail.com> wrote:

There isnt info, if you need help with anything specific, ask us, I ma working on documentation, because I recently had the same problem you are having, but, with the help of the community, I have gotten it figured out,, and I really like it! Just ask, answers will come :)

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Sean Allen <sean <at> monkeysnatchbanana.com> wrote:
Well, I think I can some this up as a 'wholly disheartening' thread.

I've tried using the small wiki archives but they arent exactly easy
to use or find info in
and then when you do find something, it can be quite old and you arent
sure if the information
is dated.

So what is the best way to get this kind of info?
Once I get it, what is best way to contribute it back so that FAQs and
documentation are meaningful
to people approaching Pier?

I'm convinced given the direction we are taking our websites that Pier
needs to be an integral
part, I'm just rather depressed that I'm going to have to expend a ton
of energy to figure out things
like 'o the environment, go there and edit, that is how you can the
layout.' I'm having mental nightmares
that even though the seaside integration is perfect for us that it
will be lost in what appears
to be a massive learning curve. Any pier experts available for
contract work, working through
initial setup w/ me? Doing remote teaching of the ins and outs?

_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

--
David Zmick
/dz0004455\
http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
http://dz0004455.blogspot.com

--
David Zmick
/dz0004455\
http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
http://dz0004455.blogspot.com


_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

headers

Tudor Girba | 20 Aug 19:09

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

Hi,

I will give a 1h tutorial next week at ESUG 2008 on how to use Pier.

The presentation will be publicly available (after I finish it :)) and  
I will also try to also provide some complementary material.

Cheers,
Doru

On Aug 20, 2008, at 6:29 PM, David Zmick wrote:

> Look at my site http://w337.uni.cc that I am working on right now,  
> ask me how to do anything i did
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:19 AM, David Zmick <dz0004455 <at> gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> There isnt info, if you need help with anything specific, ask us, I  
> ma working on documentation, because I recently had the same problem  
> you are having, but, with the help of the community, I have gotten  
> it figured out,, and I really like it!  Just ask, answers will come :)
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Sean Allen <sean <at> monkeysnatchbanana.com 
> > wrote:
> Well, I think I can some this up as a 'wholly disheartening' thread.
>
> I've tried using the small wiki archives but they arent exactly easy
> to use or find info in
> and then when you do find something, it can be quite old and you arent
> sure if the information
> is dated.
>
> So what is the best way to get this kind of info?
> Once I get it, what is best way to contribute it back so that FAQs and
> documentation are meaningful
> to people approaching Pier?
>
> I'm convinced given the direction we are taking our websites that Pier
> needs to be an integral
> part, I'm just rather depressed that I'm going to have to expend a ton
> of energy to figure out things
> like 'o the environment, go there and edit, that is how you can the
> layout.' I'm having mental nightmares
> that even though the seaside integration is perfect for us that it
> will be lost in what appears
> to be a massive learning curve. Any pier experts available for
> contract work, working through
> initial setup w/ me? Doing remote teaching of the ins and outs?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>
>
>
> -- 
> David Zmick
> /dz0004455\
> http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
> http://dz0004455.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> -- 
> David Zmick
> /dz0004455\
> http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
> http://dz0004455.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.tudorgirba.com/blog

"Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of  
problem understanding."

_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

headers

David Zmick | 20 Aug 19:12

Re: the idiot's guide to pier

I am working on something to make pier theming easier
http://w337.uni.cc/Projects/Pier/templates

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Tudor Girba <girba <at> iam.unibe.ch> wrote:

Hi,

I will give a 1h tutorial next week at ESUG 2008 on how to use Pier.

The presentation will be publicly available (after I finish it :)) and
I will also try to also provide some complementary material.

Cheers,
Doru

On Aug 20, 2008, at 6:29 PM, David Zmick wrote:

> Look at my site http://w337.uni.cc that I am working on right now,
> ask me how to do anything i did
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:19 AM, David Zmick <dz0004455 <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
> There isnt info, if you need help with anything specific, ask us, I
> ma working on documentation, because I recently had the same problem
> you are having, but, with the help of the community, I have gotten
> it figured out,, and I really like it! Just ask, answers will come :)
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Sean Allen <sean <at> monkeysnatchbanana.com
> > wrote:
> Well, I think I can some this up as a 'wholly disheartening' thread.
>
> I've tried using the small wiki archives but they arent exactly easy
> to use or find info in
> and then when you do find something, it can be quite old and you arent
> sure if the information
> is dated.
>
> So what is the best way to get this kind of info?
> Once I get it, what is best way to contribute it back so that FAQs and
> documentation are meaningful
> to people approaching Pier?
>
> I'm convinced given the direction we are taking our websites that Pier
> needs to be an integral
> part, I'm just rather depressed that I'm going to have to expend a ton
> of energy to figure out things
> like 'o the environment, go there and edit, that is how you can the
> layout.' I'm having mental nightmares
> that even though the seaside integration is perfect for us that it
> will be lost in what appears
> to be a massive learning curve. Any pier experts available for
> contract work, working through
> initial setup w/ me? Doing remote teaching of the ins and outs?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki
>
>
>
> --
> David Zmick
> /dz0004455\
> http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
> http://dz0004455.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> --
> David Zmick
> /dz0004455\
> http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
> http://dz0004455.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

--

www.tudorgirba.com
www.tudorgirba.com/blog

"Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of
problem understanding."

_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki

--
David Zmick
/dz0004455\
http://dz0004455.googlepages.com
http://dz0004455.blogspot.com


_______________________________________________
SmallWiki, Magritte, Pier and Related Tools ...
https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki