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Arden Thomas | 26 Jul 2012 21:57
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Aragon Widgets

Dear VisualWorks developers;

Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.

Questions;

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features necessitate your using them.

Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!

Arden Thomas

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
 

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Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs | 26 Jul 2012 22:05
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Re: Aragon Widgets

Arden,

 

We use a few EnhancedActionButtons and NewDataSets in 7.8, but could make do without if they went away in 7.10 or 7.9.1. I’m assuming you’re only asking about Aragon Widgets, not any of the other handful of Aragon parcels.

 

HTH,

 

-Boris

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:57 PM
To: vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu; VWDEV list
Subject: [vwnc] Aragon Widgets

 

Dear VisualWorks developers;

 

Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.

 

Questions;

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features necessitate your using them.

 

Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!

 

            Arden Thomas

 

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

845 296 0686

 

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

 

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

 

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
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Ulli Wenk | 27 Jul 2012 15:00
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Re: Aragon Widgets

if it would disappear:

1) we have to change a large quantity of Dataset-Specs (we use NewDataSets )
2) we have to change some visibility functions (sort , read-only, which cell is selected first, tabbing, highlighting in case of failure input...)
3) we have to explain to our customers why the GUI of  "tables" is now so strange and dirty  (Aragon looks more native in Windows than all I have seen before from Cincom-Datasets)
4) we have to re-implement some extensions (icons, calendar, reference/links  in each cell) and functionalities (error handling, dynamically adding+removing columns by the user in his actual view, settings by the user which columns he personally wants to see each time he opens a certain "table")
...
Or we have to support yourself and make the migration the Aragon sources to every new VW version.

Instead of canceling it would be better to support the Aragon widgets.

regards, Ulli

27.07.2012 13:24, Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs:

Steven makes a good point. Unless Cincom had officially taken over support for these contributed parcels at some point, no one should really be surprised/upset if they break or disappear in 7.10 or even sooner. I have a sneaking suspicion they aren’t 100% functional in 7.8(.1) already if you start digging into things.

 

-Boris

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Kelly
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 7:16 AM
To: Arden Thomas
Cc: VWNC List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Aragon Widgets

 

Hi Arden,

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

No – we’ve considered them because of the problems with VW’s datasets and trees, but Aragon’s unsupported and unmaintained status made us stick to base VW widgets. We’ve tried to fix problems we encounter in VW’s widgets and pass those fixes on via support. At least with the base widgets there’s a hope of those improvements benefitting others, whereas with Aragon’s owner disappearing it sounds like most people have to keep their fixes and improvements to themselves, to avoid risking a) messing things up for others and b) effectively taking on the task of maintaining and supporting Aragon widgets for all VW users.

 

Thanks for asking!

Steve

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Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs | 27 Jul 2012 15:15
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Re: Aragon Widgets

Ulli,

 

I wasn’t saying it disappearing would be a welcome sight for all, I was simply pointing out the fact that Cincom bears no responsibility for maintaining third-party code in the first place, hence this thread being a bit of a surprise. Now that there is some evidence of it being actively used for reasons X, Y and Z, it may be a good idea for Cincom to focus on bringing X, Y and Z features into stock widgets and abandon Aragon.

 

-Boris

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Ulli Wenk
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 9:00 AM
Cc: vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu; Arden Thomas; VWDEV list
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Aragon Widgets

 

if it would disappear:

1) we have to change a large quantity of Dataset-Specs (we use NewDataSets )
2) we have to change some visibility functions (sort , read-only, which cell is selected first, tabbing, highlighting in case of failure input...)
3) we have to explain to our customers why the GUI of  "tables" is now so strange and dirty  (Aragon looks more native in Windows than all I have seen before from Cincom-Datasets)
4) we have to re-implement some extensions (icons, calendar, reference/links  in each cell) and functionalities (error handling, dynamically adding+removing columns by the user in his actual view, settings by the user which columns he personally wants to see each time he opens a certain "table")
...
Or we have to support yourself and make the migration the Aragon sources to every new VW version.

Instead of canceling it would be better to support the Aragon widgets.

regards, Ulli

27.07.2012 13:24, Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs:

Steven makes a good point. Unless Cincom had officially taken over support for these contributed parcels at some point, no one should really be surprised/upset if they break or disappear in 7.10 or even sooner. I have a sneaking suspicion they aren’t 100% functional in 7.8(.1) already if you start digging into things.

 

-Boris

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Kelly
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 7:16 AM
To: Arden Thomas
Cc: VWNC List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Aragon Widgets

 

Hi Arden,

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

No – we’ve considered them because of the problems with VW’s datasets and trees, but Aragon’s unsupported and unmaintained status made us stick to base VW widgets. We’ve tried to fix problems we encounter in VW’s widgets and pass those fixes on via support. At least with the base widgets there’s a hope of those improvements benefitting others, whereas with Aragon’s owner disappearing it sounds like most people have to keep their fixes and improvements to themselves, to avoid risking a) messing things up for others and b) effectively taking on the task of maintaining and supporting Aragon widgets for all VW users.

 

Thanks for asking!

Steve

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Terry Raymond | 26 Jul 2012 23:12

Re: Aragon Widgets

We use the Dataset widget. I am planning on evaluating the new Grid widget to

see if it will satisfy our needs.

 

Terry

 

===========================================================

Terry Raymond

Crafted Smalltalk

80 Lazywood Ln.

Tiverton, RI  02878

(401) 624-4517      traymond <at> craftedsmalltalk.com

===========================================================

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:57 PM
To: vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu; VWDEV list
Subject: [vwnc] Aragon Widgets

 

Dear VisualWorks developers;

 

Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.

 

Questions;

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features necessitate your using them.

 

Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!

 

          Arden Thomas

 

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

845 296 0686

 

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

 

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

 

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Rob Vens | 27 Jul 2012 10:23
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Re: Aragon Widgets

I definitely use the dataset widget, in all versions of VisualWorks (up to the last), including as Holger said, some tweaks which we probably should share amongst us if they are only to enhance the framework in general. Need to be able to embed a tree column in the dataset for example.
The Grid widget in the base product should replace this, but it was not up to standards last time I checked.


On 26 jul. 2012, at 21:57, Arden Thomas <ardencst <at> gmail.com> wrote:

Dear VisualWorks developers;

Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.

Questions;

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features necessitate your using them.

Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!

Arden Thomas

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

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Steven Kelly | 7 Nov 2012 16:28
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Tree column in dataset

Is there anything available for VW that supports a tree as the first column of a dataset/table? Today a client has presented us with a requirement that would need that kind of widget. As far as I can tell, this isn’t available in VW’s Table, Dataset or Grid, nor in Aragon’s Tree or Dataset widgets – but Rob mentioned below having something like that.

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Vens
Sent: 27 July 2012 11:24
To: Arden Thomas
Cc: vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu; VWDEV list
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Aragon Widgets

 

I definitely use the dataset widget, in all versions of VisualWorks (up to the last), including as Holger said, some tweaks which we probably should share amongst us if they are only to enhance the framework in general. Need to be able to embed a tree column in the dataset for example.

The Grid widget in the base product should replace this, but it was not up to standards last time I checked.

 

 

On 26 jul. 2012, at 21:57, Arden Thomas <ardencst <at> gmail.com> wrote:



Dear VisualWorks developers;

 

Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.

 

Questions;

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features necessitate your using them.

 

Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!

 

                    Arden Thomas

 

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

845 296 0686

 

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

 

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

 

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

 

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
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Steven Kelly | 7 Nov 2012 22:09
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Re: Tree column in dataset

To partially answer my own question: the Aragon Dataset does allow this, as shown in Aragon.Examples NdsFileBrowser. Oddly, this useful ability seems not to be mentioned in the documentation. Thanks to Terry Raymond for an old post that pointed this out.

 

Steve

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Kelly
Sent: 07 November 2012 17:29
To: Rob Vens; Arden Thomas
Cc: vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu; VWDEV list
Subject: [vwnc] Tree column in dataset

 

Is there anything available for VW that supports a tree as the first column of a dataset/table? Today a client has presented us with a requirement that would need that kind of widget. As far as I can tell, this isn’t available in VW’s Table, Dataset or Grid, nor in Aragon’s Tree or Dataset widgets – but Rob mentioned below having something like that.

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Vens
Sent: 27 July 2012 11:24
To: Arden Thomas
Cc: vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu; VWDEV list
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Aragon Widgets

 

I definitely use the dataset widget, in all versions of VisualWorks (up to the last), including as Holger said, some tweaks which we probably should share amongst us if they are only to enhance the framework in general. Need to be able to embed a tree column in the dataset for example.

The Grid widget in the base product should replace this, but it was not up to standards last time I checked.

 

 

On 26 jul. 2012, at 21:57, Arden Thomas <ardencst <at> gmail.com> wrote:

 

Dear VisualWorks developers;

 

Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.

 

Questions;

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features necessitate your using them.

 

Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!

 

                    Arden Thomas

 

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

845 296 0686

 

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

 

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

 

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

 

_______________________________________________
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Sean Glazier | 27 Jul 2012 11:07
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Re: Aragon Widgets

Hi,


I know that all the new dataset widgets and extensions are used at Soops and at 2 other clients I have worked for in the last few years. It is in all their production code. Soops however moved the widgets into their own packages and they maintain them and have done alot of extensions to them. SO they don't rely on Cincom to maintain them. Other customers rely on them and they also subclass their own widgets from them.

features that have been added are things like filtering columns as well as easier interface to color the cells and display other graphical objects in a particular cell including animating objects. 
 
Kind Regards
 
Sean Glazier
 
Light yourself on Fire with enthusiasm and people will come for miles to watch you burn!



On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Arden Thomas <ardencst <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Dear VisualWorks developers;

Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.

Questions;

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features necessitate your using them.

Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!

Arden Thomas

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci


_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc


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Steven Kelly | 27 Jul 2012 13:16
Favicon

Re: Aragon Widgets

Hi Arden,

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

No – we’ve considered them because of the problems with VW’s datasets and trees, but Aragon’s unsupported and unmaintained status made us stick to base VW widgets. We’ve tried to fix problems we encounter in VW’s widgets and pass those fixes on via support. At least with the base widgets there’s a hope of those improvements benefitting others, whereas with Aragon’s owner disappearing it sounds like most people have to keep their fixes and improvements to themselves, to avoid risking a) messing things up for others and b) effectively taking on the task of maintaining and supporting Aragon widgets for all VW users.

 

Thanks for asking!

Steve

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Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs | 27 Jul 2012 13:24
Gravatar

Re: Aragon Widgets

Steven makes a good point. Unless Cincom had officially taken over support for these contributed parcels at some point, no one should really be surprised/upset if they break or disappear in 7.10 or even sooner. I have a sneaking suspicion they aren’t 100% functional in 7.8(.1) already if you start digging into things.

 

-Boris

 

From: vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces <at> cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Kelly
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 7:16 AM
To: Arden Thomas
Cc: VWNC List
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Aragon Widgets

 

Hi Arden,

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

No – we’ve considered them because of the problems with VW’s datasets and trees, but Aragon’s unsupported and unmaintained status made us stick to base VW widgets. We’ve tried to fix problems we encounter in VW’s widgets and pass those fixes on via support. At least with the base widgets there’s a hope of those improvements benefitting others, whereas with Aragon’s owner disappearing it sounds like most people have to keep their fixes and improvements to themselves, to avoid risking a) messing things up for others and b) effectively taking on the task of maintaining and supporting Aragon widgets for all VW users.

 

Thanks for asking!

Steve

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James Robertson | 27 Jul 2012 15:33
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Re: Aragon Widgets

We are in the same place that Steve mentions.  We've heavily modified the existing dataset widget, so the Aragon set isn't a concern for us.    On the other hand, all the stuff we've done is - it would be nice if the better parts of the Aragon Dataset were integrated, so that we didn't have t maintain such a large number of tweaks.


On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:16 AM, Steven Kelly wrote:

Hi Arden,

 

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

 

No – we’ve considered them because of the problems with VW’s datasets and trees, but Aragon’s unsupported and unmaintained status made us stick to base VW widgets. We’ve tried to fix problems we encounter in VW’s widgets and pass those fixes on via support. At least with the base widgets there’s a hope of those improvements benefitting others, whereas with Aragon’s owner disappearing it sounds like most people have to keep their fixes and improvements to themselves, to avoid risking a) messing things up for others and b) effectively taking on the task of maintaining and supporting Aragon widgets for all VW users.

 

Thanks for asking!

Steve

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Josef Springer | 28 Jul 2012 10:27

Re: Aragon Widgets

Hello Thomas,

other point: We are using Aragon-ODBC in the BPM-Suite *OfficeTalk*. 
Unfortunatly Aragon-ODBC does not support UNICODE.

mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards,
Josef Springer
(Geschäftsleitung/Management)

Postal
	Address
	_Josef.Springer <at> joops.com_
	Orlando-di-Lasso Str. 2
	D-85640 Putzbrunn
Phone
	Office
	+49 (0)89 600 6920
	
	
Phone 	Fax
	+49 (0)89 600 69220
	
	
Web
	Web
	http://www.joops.com
	
	

JOOPS
	(HRB München 86239)

*-- the software company --*

Arden Thomas wrote:
> Dear VisualWorks developers;
>
> Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the 
> amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.
>
> Questions;
>
> Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?
>
> If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features 
> necessitate your using them.
>
> Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!
>
> Arden Thomas
>
> Arden Thomas
> Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
> athomas <at> cincom.com <mailto:athomas <at> cincom.com>
> 845 296 0686
>
> Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible
>
> "Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
>


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vwnc mailing list
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Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs | 28 Jul 2012 12:15
Gravatar

Re: Aragon Widgets

VisualWorks' own ODBC EXDI supports Unicode, by the way.

-Boris

On 2012-07-28, at 4:29, "Josef Springer" <Josef.Springer <at> joops.com> wrote:

Hello Thomas,

other point: We are using Aragon-ODBC in the BPM-Suite OfficeTalk. Unfortunatly Aragon-ODBC does not support UNICODE.
Signature

mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards,
Josef Springer
(Geschäftsleitung/Management)

<Postal.jpg>
Address
 Josef.Springer <at> joops.com
 Orlando-di-Lasso Str. 2
 D-85640 Putzbrunn
<Phone.jpg>
Office
 +49 (0)89 600 6920

<Phone.jpg> Fax
 +49 (0)89 600 69220

<Web.jpg>
Web
 http://www.joops.com

<Image120.jpg>
(HRB München 86239)

-- the software company --


Arden Thomas wrote:
Dear VisualWorks developers;

Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.

Questions;

Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?

If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features necessitate your using them.

Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!

Arden Thomas

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci



_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
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Josef Springer | 28 Jul 2012 13:03

Re: Aragon Widgets

Hello Boris,

but the Lens does not support ODBC EXDI

mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards,
Josef Springer
(Geschäftsleitung/Management)

Postal
	Address
	_Josef.Springer <at> joops.com_
	Orlando-di-Lasso Str. 2
	D-85640 Putzbrunn
Phone
	Office
	+49 (0)89 600 6920
	
	
Phone 	Fax
	+49 (0)89 600 69220
	
	
Web
	Web
	http://www.joops.com
	
	

JOOPS
	(HRB München 86239)

*-- the software company --*

Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs wrote:
> VisualWorks' own ODBC EXDI supports Unicode, by the way.
>
> -Boris
>
> On 2012-07-28, at 4:29, "Josef Springer" <Josef.Springer <at> joops.com 
> <mailto:Josef.Springer <at> joops.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Thomas,
>>
>> other point: We are using Aragon-ODBC in the BPM-Suite *OfficeTalk*. 
>> Unfortunatly Aragon-ODBC does not support UNICODE.
>>
>> mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards,
>> Josef Springer
>> (Geschäftsleitung/Management)
>>
>> <Postal.jpg>
>> 	Address
>> 	_Josef.Springer <at> joops.com_
>> 	Orlando-di-Lasso Str. 2
>> 	D-85640 Putzbrunn
>> <Phone.jpg>
>> 	Office
>> 	+49 (0)89 600 6920
>> 	
>> 	
>> <Phone.jpg> 	Fax
>> 	+49 (0)89 600 69220
>> 	
>> 	
>> <Web.jpg>
>> 	Web
>> 	http://www.joops.com
>> 	
>> 	
>>
>> <Image120.jpg>
>> 	(HRB München 86239)
>>
>> *-- the software company --*
>>
>>
>>
>> Arden Thomas wrote:
>>> Dear VisualWorks developers;
>>>
>>> Aragon widgets are an aging contributed item and I want to gauge the 
>>> amount of use and interest customers and developers have in them.
>>>
>>> Questions;
>>>
>>> Do you use Aragon widgets in a production application?
>>>
>>> If yes, what version of VisualWorks, what widgets, and what features 
>>> necessitate your using them.
>>>
>>> Please keep the conversation constructive.   Thanks!
>>>
>>> Arden Thomas
>>>
>>> Arden Thomas
>>> Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
>>> athomas <at> cincom.com <mailto:athomas <at> cincom.com>
>>> 845 296 0686
>>>
>>> Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible
>>>
>>> "Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu <mailto:vwnc <at> cs.uiuc.edu>
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