List for discussions between the maintainers of database abstraction layers written in PHP ()

[phpdba] my 2 cent

Hi,

I've read lots of messages now about lots of themes, actually the 2 big 
ones: Database Schema and Database Abstraction API. Actually both are 
stuff that is not needed by anyone. I dont think you cant force the 
people to anything, so that discussion level is in my eyes very useless. 
I will never implement any Database Schema/Generation Stuff to DB_DO2, 
probably DB_DO3 or as Extra Stuff, because i see no deeper sense in it, 
because the database is always developed at work, and there are hundreds 
of cases that could happens (how do we need an update of a field, does 
it have a specific value, that is calculated out of the other fields, 
does the description kills old fields too). And the API.... i mean what 
is the reason that there are so many ORMs? Cause there are so many ways 
of doing that API. A standard would just block individual advantages. So 
i would like to open a discussion about the stuff that is clear for 
all.... i mean stuff that never blocks out anything. And i guess there 
are not so many points ;) We just can try to "animate" each other for 
new ideas.

My 2 Cent.... Thank you :)

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Lukas Kahwe Smith | 15 Mar 09:58

Re: [phpdba] my 2 cent

Torsten Raudssus wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've read lots of messages now about lots of themes, actually the 2 big 
> ones: Database Schema and Database Abstraction API. Actually both are 
> stuff that is not needed by anyone. I dont think you cant force the 
> people to anything, so that discussion level is in my eyes very useless. 
> I will never implement any Database Schema/Generation Stuff to DB_DO2, 
> probably DB_DO3 or as Extra Stuff, because i see no deeper sense in it, 
> because the database is always developed at work, and there are hundreds 
> of cases that could happens (how do we need an update of a field, does 
> it have a specific value, that is calculated out of the other fields, 
> does the description kills old fields too). And the API.... i mean what 
> is the reason that there are so many ORMs? Cause there are so many ways 
> of doing that API. A standard would just block individual advantages. So 
> i would like to open a discussion about the stuff that is clear for 
> all.... i mean stuff that never blocks out anything. And i guess there 
> are not so many points ;) We just can try to "animate" each other for 
> new ideas.

I do not see the situation that bleak on the schema management front. 
The key is to find a solution that is open to allow people to "hack" 
stuff not yet covered while still being able to leverage the things we 
can handle well.

So one solution would be to at least make people able to store 
callback's along with the rest of the information. Obviously at that 
point they are no longer language independent, but at least they can get 
on with their lifes.

(Continue reading)

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Torsten Raudssus | 15 Mar 16:18

Re: [phpdba] my 2 cent

Hiho,
>
> I do not see the situation that bleak on the schema management front. 
> The key is to find a solution that is open to allow people to "hack" 
> stuff not yet covered while still being able to leverage the things we 
> can handle well.
>
> So one solution would be to at least make people able to store 
> callback's along with the rest of the information. Obviously at that 
> point they are no longer language independent, but at least they can 
> get on with their lifes.
>
> However since they are still using a standard format, they can benefit 
> from third parties tools. Like DBDesigner has export support for the 
> Metabase format. Thats the beauty of a standard, you get all these 
> tools that work with it without extra work.
So i heard here in the discussion lots of points which would brake that. 
Of course it would be awesome to have a description language that is 
used by lots of apps, but when do you think that is used? 3-4 years? 
Actually my point is more to get results in short time that are useable. 
Advancing ORMs to have all features in all ORMs for example.... but ok, 
i will follow that discussion about the Description Language.

Bye!

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Lukas Kahwe Smith | 15 Mar 16:21

Re: [phpdba] my 2 cent

Torsten Raudssus wrote:

> So i heard here in the discussion lots of points which would brake that. 
> Of course it would be awesome to have a description language that is 
> used by lots of apps, but when do you think that is used? 3-4 years? 
> Actually my point is more to get results in short time that are useable. 
> Advancing ORMs to have all features in all ORMs for example.... but ok, 
> i will follow that discussion about the Description Language.

I think we have have multiple  discussions in parallel. I would still 
appreciate some discussion on charset support .. MDB2 also needs to beef 
up its FK support .. maybe someone has some solid code to rip for FK 
schema management ..

regards,
Lukas