Extreme Programming

Ray Tayek | 15 Jul 2012 19:57

New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/07/14/1242237/new-analyst-report-calls-agile-a-scam-says-its-an-easy-out-for-lazy-devs

Posted by <mailto:soulskill <at> slashdot.org>Soulskill on Saturday July 
14,  <at> 10:30AM
from the but-i-just-revamped-my-entire-lexicon dept.
msmoriarty writes "We recently got a copy of a new Voke analyst 
<http://www.vokeinc.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=136&Itemid=206>report 
on Agile, and the firm basically 
<http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/07/13/report-says-agile-a-scam.aspx>blasts 
the movement from top to bottom. Some highlights: 'The Agile movement 
is designed to sell services. ... Out of over 200 survey 
participants, we received only four detailed comments describing 
success with Agile.' 'Survey participants report that developers use 
the guise of Agile to avoid planning and to avoid creating 
documentation required for future maintenance. ... Be aware that the 
Agile movement might very well just be either a developer rebellion 
against unwanted tasks and schedules or just an opportunity to sell 
Agile services including certification and training.' So did the 
analysts just talk to the wrong 200 people?"

---
co-chair http://ocjug.org/

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RonJeffries | 15 Jul 2012 21:04

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

So they gave a survey to who knows whom, no one came, and therefore Agile doesn't work.
How that turns into an easy out for lazy devs escapes me entirely.
About par for slashdot.
R
On Jul 15, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Ray Tayek wrote:

> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/07/14/1242237/new-analyst-report-calls-agile-a-scam-says-its-an-easy-out-for-lazy-devs

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
I know we always like to say it'll be easier to do it now than it
will be to do it later. Not likely. I plan to be smarter later than
I am now, so I think it'll be just as easy later, maybe even easier.
Why pay now when we can pay later?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Adam Sroka | 15 Jul 2012 21:51

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

I think that much of what is being sold as Agile is a way for lazy people,
many of whom are middle managers or bureaucrats (Which is what many
programmers have been forced to become in large organizations,) to
implement mindlessly what only works as a mindful process. So, I think the
analysis isn't too far off.

The problem isn't with the Agile community per se, it's with the notion
that large corporations can adopt Agile in a cookie cutter way. Many people
are buying that and so many people are selling it to them. It is snake oil.

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 12:04 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries <at> acm.org> wrote:

> **
>
>
> So they gave a survey to who knows whom, no one came, and therefore Agile
> doesn't work.
> How that turns into an easy out for lazy devs escapes me entirely.
> About par for slashdot.
> R
> On Jul 15, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Ray Tayek wrote:
>
> >
> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/07/14/1242237/new-analyst-report-calls-agile-a-scam-says-its-an-easy-out-for-lazy-devs
>
> Ron Jeffries
> www.XProgramming.com
> I know we always like to say it'll be easier to do it now than it
> will be to do it later. Not likely. I plan to be smarter later than
> I am now, so I think it'll be just as easy later, maybe even easier.

(Continue reading)

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Theresa Jayne Forster | 15 Jul 2012 23:14

RE: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Actually it sounds about right, but only in large organisations, 

1) Agile means that the developer becomes again an Analyst as they develop
the software based on a specification 
2) most large companies have a "senior Developer" or "Systems Analyst" who
is the person who is designing the software based on the specification and
giving small "parcels" of information to the developers so that they cannot
know the whole plan and duplicate it outside the company (nasty these
developers taking their knowledge with them) 
3) It is these companies that try to shoehorn the Agile methodology into the
mix and it is to them seeming like a waste of space, ie What are we paying
these Architects to produce if the developers ignore it and design it all
again their way...

So it is not a failure of Agile, more a failure of business to actually
realise that they can implement Agile and make it inclusive in the design
and development stage across the whole project and not have to employ a
Contractor or Architect to design their software before letting those really
useless developers touch it, they don't have the brains to work out how to
add two numbers....

And yes the Sarcasm is dripping out of there, Agile to me is the way to
allow the developers to shine and show what they can do, rather than code
monkeys to produce what an architect or systems analyst is too important to
code (for that read - can't code) 

Theresa.

-----Original Message-----
From: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com

(Continue reading)

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RonJeffries | 16 Jul 2012 01:29

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

I don't see how it is an out for lazy DEVS at all.
R
On Jul 15, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:

> I think that much of what is being sold as Agile is a way for lazy people,
> many of whom are middle managers or bureaucrats (Which is what many
> programmers have been forced to become in large organizations,) to
> implement mindlessly what only works as a mindful process. So, I think the
> analysis isn't too far off.
> 
> The problem isn't with the Agile community per se, it's with the notion
> that large corporations can adopt Agile in a cookie cutter way. Many people
> are buying that and so many people are selling it to them. It is snake oil.

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and low.
Inside I am screaming and have a machine gun.
Yin and Yang I figure.
  -- Tom Jeffries

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Adam Sroka | 16 Jul 2012 01:39

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

I agree. The Slashdot post was flippant. They usually are.

But the two links were both interesting. I think that from an outsiders
perspective if you don't know who's who it does look like "Agile is
designed to sell services." There are a lot of people charging a lot of
money and a lot of what they are selling is crap.

The only question is, which thing is actually "Agile?" The thing you and I
both know works? Or the thing those people are selling? Do we know the
answer to that? How would an outsider tell?

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 4:29 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries <at> acm.org> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I don't see how it is an out for lazy DEVS at all.
> R
>
> On Jul 15, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:
>
> > I think that much of what is being sold as Agile is a way for lazy
> people,
> > many of whom are middle managers or bureaucrats (Which is what many
> > programmers have been forced to become in large organizations,) to
> > implement mindlessly what only works as a mindful process. So, I think
> the
> > analysis isn't too far off.
> >
> > The problem isn't with the Agile community per se, it's with the notion

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RonJeffries | 16 Jul 2012 01:46

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

I think it's time for a new revolution ...
R
On Jul 15, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:

> I agree. The Slashdot post was flippant. They usually are.
> 
> But the two links were both interesting. I think that from an outsiders
> perspective if you don't know who's who it does look like "Agile is
> designed to sell services." There are a lot of people charging a lot of
> money and a lot of what they are selling is crap.
> 
> The only question is, which thing is actually "Agile?" The thing you and I
> both know works? Or the thing those people are selling? Do we know the
> answer to that? How would an outsider tell?

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
I'm really pissed off by what people are passing off as "agile" these days.
You may have a red car, but that does not make it a Ferrari.
  -- Steve Hayes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Dave Rooney | 16 Jul 2012 04:14

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

On 12-07-15 7:46 PM, RonJeffries wrote:
>
> I think it's time for a new revolution ...
>

+?

Dave...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Charlie Poole | 16 Jul 2012 04:42

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Hi Ron,

Maybe we should all stop talking about "Agile." Folks I respect generally
do XP, or Scrum or some other agile methodology. They don't "Do Agile."

Yet even on this list, folks keep talking about agile as if it were a
methodology. No wonder outsiders are confused.

Charlie

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 4:46 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries <at> acm.org> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I think it's time for a new revolution ...
> R
>
> On Jul 15, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:
>
> > I agree. The Slashdot post was flippant. They usually are.
> >
> > But the two links were both interesting. I think that from an outsiders
> > perspective if you don't know who's who it does look like "Agile is
> > designed to sell services." There are a lot of people charging a lot of
> > money and a lot of what they are selling is crap.
> >
> > The only question is, which thing is actually "Agile?" The thing you and
> I
> > both know works? Or the thing those people are selling? Do we know the

(Continue reading)

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Adam Sroka | 16 Jul 2012 05:37

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

I don't think the words are the problem this time. The $$$ are the
problem. Corporations have lots of money to throw at things but the
one thing they can't seem to do well is get out of their own way.
Agile is precisely about getting out of our own way. When you run into
a joint spreading money all over the place people have a hard time
telling you that you can't have what you want (And in my experience
they don't listen even when you tell them.)

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Charlie Poole <charliepoole <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
> Maybe we should all stop talking about "Agile." Folks I respect generally
> do XP, or Scrum or some other agile methodology. They don't "Do Agile."
>
> Yet even on this list, folks keep talking about agile as if it were a
> methodology. No wonder outsiders are confused.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 4:46 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries <at> acm.org> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I think it's time for a new revolution ...
>> R
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:
>>
>> > I agree. The Slashdot post was flippant. They usually are.

(Continue reading)

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Tim Ottinger | 20 Jul 2012 21:23

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Gallwey's equation: p = P - i

Agile is a way to increase P and reduce I.
It's not the only way, but it is a major factor in Agile working.
 
Tim Ottinger
tottinge <at> industriallogic.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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JeffGrigg | 22 Jul 2012 11:16

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

I had to look it up:
"Performance equals Potential minus Interference."

Original source:
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=MRqxwG76bn0C&pg=PT38&lpg=PT38&dq=Gallwey+equation+Performance+equals+Potential+minus+Interference&source=bl&ots=E8DtzhHApa&sig=xtbWItkB-GqLoZwm6ljNZvKVV3I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GsQLUMOIK_CXiAe69Lm0DQ&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Gallwey%20equation%20Performance%20equals%20Potential%20minus%20Interference&f=false
or http://tinyurl.com/cd8qpwd

[Commentary...]
http://alison-maxwell.blogspot.co.nz/2012/03/interference.html
http://www.naturalawakeningsmag.com/Natural-Awakenings/July-2012/Play-the-Inner-Game/

--- Tim Ottinger <linux_tim <at> ...> wrote:
> Gallwey's equation: p = P - i
> 
> Agile is a way to increase P and reduce I.
> It's not the only way, but it is a major factor in Agile working.

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Kevin | 22 Jul 2012 23:42

Re: Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

so frustrating as existing skeptics read rubbish like this report and feel it backs their
misunderstandings! imo even applying some of the basic agile techniques/disciplines is better than
conventional predictive (head in sand) management practices..the lack of credibility of this analysts
should make the headlines..

--  
Kevin
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)

On Sunday, 22 July 2012 at 10:16, JeffGrigg wrote:

>    
> I had to look it up:
> "Performance equals Potential minus Interference."
>  
> Original source:
> http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=MRqxwG76bn0C&pg=PT38&lpg=PT38&dq=Gallwey+equation+Performance+equals+Potential+minus+Interference&source=bl&ots=E8DtzhHApa&sig=xtbWItkB-GqLoZwm6ljNZvKVV3I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GsQLUMOIK_CXiAe69Lm0DQ&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Gallwey%20equation%20Performance%20equals%20Potential%20minus%20Interference&f=false
> or http://tinyurl.com/cd8qpwd
>  
> [Commentary...]
> http://alison-maxwell.blogspot.co.nz/2012/03/interference.html
> http://www.naturalawakeningsmag.com/Natural-Awakenings/July-2012/Play-the-Inner-Game/
>  
> --- Tim Ottinger <linux_tim <at> ...> wrote:
> > Gallwey's equation: p = P - i
> >  
> > Agile is a way to increase P and reduce I.
> > It's not the only way, but it is a major factor in Agile working.
>  
>

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wyatt | 25 Jul 2012 21:51

simulink unit testing framework

Greetings.

Do any of you have experience unit testing in a matlab/simulink
environment sans cppUnit on the generated C code?

I'm working with a couple of teams ready to take on TDD, and they use
simulink exclusively to create their models and components. They run
system test scenarios and the auto tests take hours to run, and currently
it's difficult locating the issues unless we peel the onion model by
model.

Google returns a number of framework links. Before trying them out I
thought I'd reach out to the community.

Any Simulink TDD pointers greatly appreciated, especially
been-there-tried-it, do-this-don't-do-this experiences.

In advance, thank you.
-wyatt

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Giorgio Sironi | 26 Jul 2012 21:58

Re: simulink unit testing framework

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 9:51 PM, <wyatt <at> yellowcello.com> wrote:
>
>  Do any of you have experience unit testing in a matlab/simulink
> environment sans cppUnit on the generated C code?
>
I do not know much of this specific environment, but it's possible to do
TDD in Matlab. This project is a fully-tested object-oriented application
written in Matlab:
https://github.com/giorgiosironi/sign-manipulations-detector
Hope that helps a bit.

--

-- 
Giorgio Sironi ( <at> giorgiosironi)
http://giorgiosironi.com <http://giorgiosironi.blogspot.com/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Soledad Juárez | 30 Jul 2012 01:09

Re: simulink unit testing framework

Hello Dear Sironi:

It is a good reference, I find it very useful.
Thank you very much.

Best regards!
 
Soledad J. Smithers
soledad_jj <at> yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Adam Sroka | 16 Jul 2012 07:29

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Keep it short of actual shooting and I've got your back 

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 4:46 PM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries <at> acm.org> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I think it's time for a new revolution ...
> R
>
> On Jul 15, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:
>
> > I agree. The Slashdot post was flippant. They usually are.
> >
> > But the two links were both interesting. I think that from an outsiders
> > perspective if you don't know who's who it does look like "Agile is
> > designed to sell services." There are a lot of people charging a lot of
> > money and a lot of what they are selling is crap.
> >
> > The only question is, which thing is actually "Agile?" The thing you and
> I
> > both know works? Or the thing those people are selling? Do we know the
> > answer to that? How would an outsider tell?
>
> Ron Jeffries
> www.XProgramming.com
> I'm really pissed off by what people are passing off as "agile" these days.
> You may have a red car, but that does not make it a Ferrari.
> -- Steve Hayes
>

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Dave Rooney | 16 Jul 2012 13:00

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

At Agile Coach Camp Canada last month, I posted a session called "I'm 
*so* done with Agile!".  My basis for the session is essentially what 
has been said in this thread already, and I was pleasantly surprised at 
the number of people who showed up and discussed how they felt the same way.

With our tongues placed somewhat in our cheeks, we created the "23rd of 
June Movement" complete with a Google Group here: 
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/the-23rd-of-june-movement . Please 
feel free to join up, or create your own version of the Judean People's 
Front... or was it the People's Front of Judea... :)

During our founding discussions, carefully disguised as a bunch of 
people griping about the current state of things, I made the comment 
that if the Agile Manifesto represented the Ten Commandments (OK, so it 
was 4+12), then we now needed the Beatitudes.  Sue Davis made the 
comment that she "didn't want to burn the temple down, but just wanted 
to kick out all the vendors"!  Religious stuff aside, there was a common 
thread that the promise of 10-15 years ago has been watered down to the 
point of being so ineffective that it's almost not worth the effort 
required to change.

Anyway, without complaining any more, you can rest assured that there 
are a good number of people out there who feel the same way.

¡Viva la revolucion!

Dave...

On 12-07-16 1:29 AM, Adam Sroka wrote:
> Keep it short of actual shooting and I've got your back

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James Grenning | 16 Jul 2012 17:17

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Ron

are you humming along with "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" 

James

On Jul 15, 2012, at 6:46 PM, RonJeffries wrote:

> I think it's time for a new revolution ...
> R
> On Jul 15, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Adam Sroka wrote:
> 
> > I agree. The Slashdot post was flippant. They usually are.
> > 
> > But the two links were both interesting. I think that from an outsiders
> > perspective if you don't know who's who it does look like "Agile is
> > designed to sell services." There are a lot of people charging a lot of
> > money and a lot of what they are selling is crap.
> > 
> > The only question is, which thing is actually "Agile?" The thing you and I
> > both know works? Or the thing those people are selling? Do we know the
> > answer to that? How would an outsider tell?
> 
> Ron Jeffries
> www.XProgramming.com
> I'm really pissed off by what people are passing off as "agile" these days.
> You may have a red car, but that does not make it a Ferrari.
> -- Steve Hayes
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(Continue reading)

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John Galvin | 16 Jul 2012 17:29

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

So, an unknown analyst firm produces an expensive report that accuses
people of pushing something just to sell services?? ironic, n'est pa?

I'd bet they'll sell more than if they'd produced a report that basically
said "it works but it's hard work" - you can always find people willing to
spend money to reinforce their biases.

On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Ray Tayek <rtayek <at> ca.rr.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/07/14/1242237/new-analyst-report-calls-agile-a-scam-says-its-an-easy-out-for-lazy-devs
>
> Posted by <mailto:soulskill <at> slashdot.org>Soulskill on Saturday July
> 14,  <at> 10:30AM
> from the but-i-just-revamped-my-entire-lexicon dept.
> msmoriarty writes "We recently got a copy of a new Voke analyst
> <
> http://www.vokeinc.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=136&Itemid=206>report
>
> on Agile, and the firm basically
> <http://adtmag.com/articles/2012/07/13/report-says-agile-a-scam.aspx>blasts
>
> the movement from top to bottom. Some highlights: 'The Agile movement
> is designed to sell services. ... Out of over 200 survey
> participants, we received only four detailed comments describing
> success with Agile.' 'Survey participants report that developers use
> the guise of Agile to avoid planning and to avoid creating

(Continue reading)

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Kay A Pentecost | 16 Jul 2012 22:14

RE: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Galvin
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:30 AM
> To: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [XP] New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy
> Out For Lazy Devs
> 
> So, an unknown analyst firm produces an expensive report that accuses
> people of pushing something just to sell services?? ironic, n'est pa?

Yes.  It's projection.  People who do work just for the money, and not for
the love of creating something excellent will always assume others act from
motives identical to theirs.  Lazy people always perceive laziness in
others' acts; scammers always assume scamming...

Kay Pentecost

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Ram Srinivasan | 16 Jul 2012 23:57

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

"The Agile movement shifts the broad, inter-departmental process of
software engineering to one that is focused on software development to the
exclusion of QA and operations," says the report in an "assumption."

"In spite of the specialization of resources which limits the scope of the
work of developers, the Agile movement might inspire and encourage
developers to push back on processes, tools, documentation, and following
plans," the report says.

The survey results include the following (verbatim from the report):

   - *Sixty-four percent (64%) of survey participants found the transition
   to Agile confusing, hard, or slow. Twenty-eight percent (28%) report
   success with Agile.*
   - *Out of over 200 survey participants, we received only four detailed
   comments describing success with Agile.*
   - *Overwhelmingly, 40% of participants that use Agile did not identify a
   benefit.*
   - *The primary benefits identified were faster releases (14%) and more
   feedback (13%). Some participants (7%) also noted that Agile developers
   were happy due to less future planning and less documentation.*
   - *Survey participants report that developers use the guise of Agile to
   avoid planning and to avoid creating documentation required for future
   maintenance.*
   - *We received some unprecedented scathing and shocking comments about
   the level of competence, professionalism, and attitudes of some members of
   the Agile movement.*
   - *Be aware that the Agile movement might very well just be either a
   developer rebellion against unwanted tasks and schedules or just an
   opportunity to sell Agile services including certification and training.*

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Steven Gordon | 17 Jul 2012 01:18

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Surveys are an easy out for lazy researchers!

Who did they survey? Who did they not survey?  Who declined to fill in
the survey, and why did they decline?

Surveys gather opinions, not facts no matter how the questions are
phrased.  When people report something they think is a fact, they are
really reporting what they perceive as a fact, which is quite often
just an assumption or rationalization.

Anonymous, promiscuous web-based surveys are even worse, because there
is no way to account for the many possible biases, especially those
related to who were given the survey (and who were not) and who chose
to fill in the survey (and who chose not to).

Please, be wary of any analysis based on survey results even when they
do happen to align with what you perceive to be the truth.

Steven Gordon, PhD.

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Ram Srinivasan <vasan.ram <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> "The Agile movement shifts the broad, inter-departmental process of
> software engineering to one that is focused on software development to the
> exclusion of QA and operations," says the report in an "assumption."
>
> "In spite of the specialization of resources which limits the scope of the
> work of developers, the Agile movement might inspire and encourage
> developers to push back on processes, tools, documentation, and following
> plans," the report says.
>

(Continue reading)

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Curtis Cooley | 17 Jul 2012 17:15

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Steven Gordon <sgordonphd <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Surveys are an easy out for lazy researchers!
>
> Who did they survey? Who did they not survey? Who declined to fill in
> the survey, and why did they decline?
>
> Surveys gather opinions, not facts no matter how the questions are
> phrased. When people report something they think is a fact, they are
> really reporting what they perceive as a fact, which is quite often
> just an assumption or rationalization.
>
> Anonymous, promiscuous web-based surveys are even worse, because there
> is no way to account for the many possible biases, especially those
> related to who were given the survey (and who were not) and who chose
> to fill in the survey (and who chose not to).
>
> Please, be wary of any analysis based on survey results even when they
> do happen to align with what you perceive to be the truth.
>
> Which is precisely why lean startups do experiments instead of surveys.
When it's your capital on the line, never trust a survey. All sorts of
people will say "sure, I'd buy x for y" until you actually starting making
x's. Yes, customer development includes customer interviews, but those are
one on one, face to face, and focus on problems the potential customer
wants solved not on what the potential customer will buy or pay for.
--

--

(Continue reading)

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Kay A Pentecost | 17 Jul 2012 02:05

RE: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

First off, David Ramel from Application Development News, about whom I know
nothing, writes:

" The July 11 Market Snapshot Report, titled "Agile Realities," is authored
by Lisa Dronzek and Theresa Lanowitz, who from June 2011 to February 2012
asked more than 200 participants about their use of Agile software
development and the results of that use."

In almost a year they could find only 200 participants??  There's over 9600
people on the XP list.  Did they ask any of us?  Who exactly were these
"participants"?? Developers?  Managers? C-level people? Top Chefs? American
Idols? Janitors?? 

Why are these supposedly knowledgeable persons supposed to know about
"Agile"?   Why do they not identify the pool these participants come from?

Now for the "verbatim quotes":

> 
>    - *Sixty-four percent (64%) of survey participants found the transition
>    to Agile confusing, hard, or slow. 

How many of the 64% of the survey participants had actually transitioned to
Agile?

How many thought the transition confusing?  Who guided the transition? 
Were they easily confused?  If a transition to "Agile" is confusing, does
that say something about "Agile" or something about those leading the
transition?

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Amir Kolsky | 17 Jul 2012 02:25

RE: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Wait,

Let's face it. Agile transitions can go horribly wrong if they are not done
properly.

Going agile is like removing the speed limitation on a car but without
upgrading the breaks and tires. Yes, you can crash and burn.

Based on the comments that you've quoted, it appears that most of these
answers came from above the developer's circles. If they quoted middle
management, then we know that they are notoriously against agility as it
plays against the fiefdom aspirations, they do not understand it, and they
do not understand what needs to be done to do it properly.

I've been to a company recently, huge company, that decided that all
development should now be scrum. The training was a pamphlet sent to
developers about roles and practices.

What?

Where's the guidance? Where's the feedback? WHY SCRUM? 

This decision was made by pointy haired, and the teams hate it. Scrum is
just the wrong process for them. They need a more flow based model. If you
were to interview the team - they hate agile - it does not work. 

Incidentally - they do not do any of the XP practices, which are the
enabling factors for the success of agile. They still have silos.

I was like "HUH? Why Scrum?" All I got back was a shrug.

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Amir Kolsky | 17 Jul 2012 02:40

RE: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Just a clarification - let's clarify the car speed analogy, using another
one J

What I meant was that if you upgrade a car, say by replacing the engine -
you have to deal with a lot of other things too - the electrical, breaks,
tires, suspension, etc.

A lot of people think that if they have a standup meeting then they are
doing agile. We have sprint planning, ergo we do agile. An agile process is
a finely tuned machine - you can't haphazardly choose elements that you
think that you like and drop the rest because you're going to, more likely
than not, fail.

Amir

www.sustainableTDD.com

From: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com
[mailto:extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amir Kolsky
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 5:26 PM
To: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [XP] New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy
Out For Lazy Devs

Wait,

Let's face it. Agile transitions can go horribly wrong if they are not done
properly.

Going agile is like removing the speed limitation on a car but without

(Continue reading)

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Laurent Bossavit | 17 Jul 2012 09:49

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

> The training was a pamphlet sent to developers about roles and practices.

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2007-11-26/

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Amir Kolsky | 17 Jul 2012 15:09

RE: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

We now know who was interviewed for the report. Brilliant detective work
Laurent, or shall I say - Tin tin?

From: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com
[mailto:extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurent Bossavit
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:49 AM
To: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [XP] New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy
Out For Lazy Devs

> The training was a pamphlet sent to developers about roles and practices.

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2007-11-26/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Michael Hill | 17 Jul 2012 02:31

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

honestly, i never look at these kind of articles or the threads they spawn
on xp groups.

http://xkcd.com/386/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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George Dinwiddie | 17 Jul 2012 03:12

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Hill,

On 7/16/12 8:31 PM, Michael Hill wrote:
> honestly, i never look at these kind of articles or the threads they spawn
> on xp groups.
>
> http://xkcd.com/386/

You know, I always wondered something about that cartoon. Why the use of 
the singular instead of plural?

  - George

--

-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   * George Dinwiddie *                      http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
   Software Development                    http://www.idiacomputing.com
   Consultant and Coach                    http://www.agilemaryland.org
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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James Grenning | 17 Jul 2012 04:24

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

Thanks for the clarifying moment and the xkcd comic!

> http://xkcd.com/386/
> 

 When a survey finds common sense, its a good survey.  Otherwise, its a survey with an agenda.  You decide.

James

> honestly, i never look at these kind of articles or the threads they spawn
> on xp groups.
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Steven Gordon | 17 Jul 2012 05:35

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 7:24 PM, James Grenning <
james <at> renaissancesoftware.net> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thanks for the clarifying moment and the xkcd comic!
>
> > http://xkcd.com/386/
> >
>
> When a survey finds common sense, its a good survey. Otherwise, its a
> survey with an agenda. You decide.
>

I could not disagree more.  All surveys have an agenda.

Steve

>
> James
>
>
> > honestly, i never look at these kind of articles or the threads they
> spawn
> > on xp groups.
> >
> >
> >
>

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Kay A Pentecost | 17 Jul 2012 05:47

RE: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs


I agree with Steve.  Questions (usually) determine the answer you get.

In fact, there's a couple of books out there that suggest you can change
your *life* by changing the questions you ask yourself.  

And an agenda isn't necessarily bad... 

Kay Pentecost

> -----Original Message-----
> From: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Gordon
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:36 PM
> To: extremeprogramming <at> yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [XP] New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy
> Out For Lazy Devs
> 
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 7:24 PM, James Grenning <
> james <at> renaissancesoftware.net> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the clarifying moment and the xkcd comic!
> >
> > > http://xkcd.com/386/
> > >
> >
> > When a survey finds common sense, its a good survey. Otherwise, its a

(Continue reading)

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Alexander Kriegisch | 19 Jul 2012 11:57

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

I have not really read the full thread, but I *need to* comment on the
stupid "lazy devs" statement those people seem to have made: If anyone
is lazy out there, it is managements in their stubborn resistance to
change. I have lectured on conferences for years about Scrum Anti
Patterns (something I nicknamed "Frankenstein Scrum") in order to arouse
awareness for how bad most Scrum implementations really are because they
lack management support, discipline and understanding of Agile Values -
not to speak of money for long-term external coaching support. People
out there really still seem to believe that you can "buy" Scrum with a
two-day certification course, as if any change management process was
ever that easy. There still is also this misconception of Scrum not
requiring any discipline, even though the exact opposite is true.
Obviously there is no magic potion against human stupidity.

Sorry guys, I needed to get this off my chest.
--

-- 
Alexander Kriegisch
http://scrum-master.de

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Tim Ottinger | 20 Jul 2012 21:18

Re: New Analyst Report Calls Agile a Scam, Says It's An Easy Out For Lazy Devs

My very first thought? I'd just read this: 
http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2012/07/stephen_r_covey_taught_me_not.html

Specifically, I thought of this:

In his speech "Citizenship in a Republic," Theodore Roosevelt famously said: "It is not the critic who
counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done
them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and
sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no
effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great
enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that
his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

 
Having read the short writeup, I my only addition is abusus non tollit usum -- the abuse is not it's use.

I would argue against all of the same things they called out in the short-form writeup, but I wouldn't call
those things Agile.

Tim Ottinger
tottinge <at> industriallogic.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]