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mark florisson | 28 May 2012 14:49
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On 25 May 2012 21:53, Frédéric Bastien <nouiz <at> nouiz.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> Sorry for the delay, I had some schedule change.
>
> thanks for adding me. Should I subscribe to cython-dev? How much email
> daily there is? I didn't found this on the archives. Fell free to add
> me in CC again when you think it is appropriate.

There is usually not so much traffic on cython-dev, unless something
comes up that is debated to the death :)

> I'll reply here to all email at the same time. Do you prefer that I
> reply to each email individually if this happen again? I'll try to
> reply faster next time.

No worries, either way works fine, don't worry too much about protocol
(the only thing to note is that we do bottom posting).

> - About pickling theano, we currently can't pick Theano function. It
> could be made to work in some cases, but not for all cases as there is
> hardware dependent optimization in the Theano function. Currently it
> is mostly CPU vs GPU operation. So if we stay on the CPU, we could do
> some pickling, but we should make sure that the compiled c code into
> python module are still there when we unpickle or recompile them.
>
> - I think it make sense to make a theano graph from cython ast,
> optimize and redo a cython ast from the optimized graph. This would
> allow using Theano optimizations.
(Continue reading)

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mark florisson | 28 May 2012 14:52
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On 28 May 2012 13:49, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On 25 May 2012 21:53, Frédéric Bastien <nouiz <at> nouiz.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Sorry for the delay, I had some schedule change.
>>
>> thanks for adding me. Should I subscribe to cython-dev? How much email
>> daily there is? I didn't found this on the archives. Fell free to add
>> me in CC again when you think it is appropriate.
>
> There is usually not so much traffic on cython-dev, unless something
> comes up that is debated to the death :)
>
>> I'll reply here to all email at the same time. Do you prefer that I
>> reply to each email individually if this happen again? I'll try to
>> reply faster next time.
>
> No worries, either way works fine, don't worry too much about protocol
> (the only thing to note is that we do bottom posting).
>
>> - About pickling theano, we currently can't pick Theano function. It
>> could be made to work in some cases, but not for all cases as there is
>> hardware dependent optimization in the Theano function. Currently it
>> is mostly CPU vs GPU operation. So if we stay on the CPU, we could do
>> some pickling, but we should make sure that the compiled c code into
>> python module are still there when we unpickle or recompile them.
>>
>> - I think it make sense to make a theano graph from cython ast,
>> optimize and redo a cython ast from the optimized graph. This would
(Continue reading)

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mark florisson | 28 May 2012 14:54
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On 28 May 2012 13:52, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On 28 May 2012 13:49, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 25 May 2012 21:53, Frédéric Bastien <nouiz <at> nouiz.org> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry for the delay, I had some schedule change.
>>>
>>> thanks for adding me. Should I subscribe to cython-dev? How much email
>>> daily there is? I didn't found this on the archives. Fell free to add
>>> me in CC again when you think it is appropriate.
>>
>> There is usually not so much traffic on cython-dev, unless something
>> comes up that is debated to the death :)
>>
>>> I'll reply here to all email at the same time. Do you prefer that I
>>> reply to each email individually if this happen again? I'll try to
>>> reply faster next time.
>>
>> No worries, either way works fine, don't worry too much about protocol
>> (the only thing to note is that we do bottom posting).
>>
>>> - About pickling theano, we currently can't pick Theano function. It
>>> could be made to work in some cases, but not for all cases as there is
>>> hardware dependent optimization in the Theano function. Currently it
>>> is mostly CPU vs GPU operation. So if we stay on the CPU, we could do
>>> some pickling, but we should make sure that the compiled c code into
>>> python module are still there when we unpickle or recompile them.
>>>
>>> - I think it make sense to make a theano graph from cython ast,
(Continue reading)

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Robert Bradshaw | 29 May 2012 23:26
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 5:54 AM, mark florisson
<markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On 28 May 2012 13:52, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 28 May 2012 13:49, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 25 May 2012 21:53, Frédéric Bastien <nouiz <at> nouiz.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the delay, I had some schedule change.
>>>>
>>>> thanks for adding me. Should I subscribe to cython-dev? How much email
>>>> daily there is? I didn't found this on the archives. Fell free to add
>>>> me in CC again when you think it is appropriate.
>>>
>>> There is usually not so much traffic on cython-dev, unless something
>>> comes up that is debated to the death :)
>>>
>>>> I'll reply here to all email at the same time. Do you prefer that I
>>>> reply to each email individually if this happen again? I'll try to
>>>> reply faster next time.
>>>
>>> No worries, either way works fine, don't worry too much about protocol
>>> (the only thing to note is that we do bottom posting).
>>>
>>>> - About pickling theano, we currently can't pick Theano function. It
>>>> could be made to work in some cases, but not for all cases as there is
>>>> hardware dependent optimization in the Theano function. Currently it
>>>> is mostly CPU vs GPU operation. So if we stay on the CPU, we could do
>>>> some pickling, but we should make sure that the compiled c code into
>>>> python module are still there when we unpickle or recompile them.
(Continue reading)

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mark florisson | 30 May 2012 00:22
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On 29 May 2012 22:26, Robert Bradshaw <robertwb <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 5:54 AM, mark florisson
> <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 28 May 2012 13:52, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 28 May 2012 13:49, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 25 May 2012 21:53, Frédéric Bastien <nouiz <at> nouiz.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the delay, I had some schedule change.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for adding me. Should I subscribe to cython-dev? How much email
>>>>> daily there is? I didn't found this on the archives. Fell free to add
>>>>> me in CC again when you think it is appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> There is usually not so much traffic on cython-dev, unless something
>>>> comes up that is debated to the death :)
>>>>
>>>>> I'll reply here to all email at the same time. Do you prefer that I
>>>>> reply to each email individually if this happen again? I'll try to
>>>>> reply faster next time.
>>>>
>>>> No worries, either way works fine, don't worry too much about protocol
>>>> (the only thing to note is that we do bottom posting).
>>>>
>>>>> - About pickling theano, we currently can't pick Theano function. It
>>>>> could be made to work in some cases, but not for all cases as there is
>>>>> hardware dependent optimization in the Theano function. Currently it
>>>>> is mostly CPU vs GPU operation. So if we stay on the CPU, we could do
>>>>> some pickling, but we should make sure that the compiled c code into
(Continue reading)

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mark florisson | 30 May 2012 00:23
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On 29 May 2012 23:22, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On 29 May 2012 22:26, Robert Bradshaw <robertwb <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 5:54 AM, mark florisson
>> <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 28 May 2012 13:52, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 28 May 2012 13:49, mark florisson <markflorisson88 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 25 May 2012 21:53, Frédéric Bastien <nouiz <at> nouiz.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for the delay, I had some schedule change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for adding me. Should I subscribe to cython-dev? How much email
>>>>>> daily there is? I didn't found this on the archives. Fell free to add
>>>>>> me in CC again when you think it is appropriate.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is usually not so much traffic on cython-dev, unless something
>>>>> comes up that is debated to the death :)
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll reply here to all email at the same time. Do you prefer that I
>>>>>> reply to each email individually if this happen again? I'll try to
>>>>>> reply faster next time.
>>>>>
>>>>> No worries, either way works fine, don't worry too much about protocol
>>>>> (the only thing to note is that we do bottom posting).
>>>>>
>>>>>> - About pickling theano, we currently can't pick Theano function. It
>>>>>> could be made to work in some cases, but not for all cases as there is
>>>>>> hardware dependent optimization in the Theano function. Currently it
>>>>>> is mostly CPU vs GPU operation. So if we stay on the CPU, we could do
(Continue reading)

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Robert Bradshaw | 30 May 2012 00:29
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 3:22 PM, mark florisson
<markflorisson88@...> wrote:
>>>>> I started a new project, https://github.com/markflorisson88/minivect ,
>>>>> which currently features a simple C code generator. The specializer
>>>>> and astbuilder do most of the work of creating the right AST, so the
>>>>> code generator only has to implement code generation functions for
>>>>> simple expressions. Depending on how it progresses I will look at
>>>>> incorporating Theano's optimizations into it and having Theano use it
>>>>> as a C backend for compatible expressions.
>>>>
>>>> I forgot to mention, it's still pretty basic, but it works for simple
>>>> arithmetic expressions with non-overlapping (shifted) memory from
>>>> Cython: https://github.com/markflorisson88/cython/commit/2c316abdbc1228597bbdf480f737a59213ee9532#L4R1
>>>
>>> So basically, this project is to be used as a git submodule in Cython,
>>> and to be shipped directly in the source distribution. Is there any
>>> objection to that?
>>
>> I'm not sure this is the best long-term solution (the alternative
>> would be making it part of Cython or adding a dependency) but I think
>> that's fine for now. I'm assuming there that the end user doesn't
>> explicitly reference it, right? It's just an optimization if present.
>>
>> - Robert
>
> The only gotcha is that when you checkout Cython from github you will
> need to update the submodule.

Manually, right? How badly do things go wrong if you forget to?
(Continue reading)

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mark florisson | 30 May 2012 00:32
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On 29 May 2012 23:29, Robert Bradshaw <robertwb@...> wrote:
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 3:22 PM, mark florisson
> <markflorisson88@...> wrote:
>>>>>> I started a new project, https://github.com/markflorisson88/minivect ,
>>>>>> which currently features a simple C code generator. The specializer
>>>>>> and astbuilder do most of the work of creating the right AST, so the
>>>>>> code generator only has to implement code generation functions for
>>>>>> simple expressions. Depending on how it progresses I will look at
>>>>>> incorporating Theano's optimizations into it and having Theano use it
>>>>>> as a C backend for compatible expressions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I forgot to mention, it's still pretty basic, but it works for simple
>>>>> arithmetic expressions with non-overlapping (shifted) memory from
>>>>> Cython: https://github.com/markflorisson88/cython/commit/2c316abdbc1228597bbdf480f737a59213ee9532#L4R1
>>>>
>>>> So basically, this project is to be used as a git submodule in Cython,
>>>> and to be shipped directly in the source distribution. Is there any
>>>> objection to that?
>>>
>>> I'm not sure this is the best long-term solution (the alternative
>>> would be making it part of Cython or adding a dependency) but I think
>>> that's fine for now. I'm assuming there that the end user doesn't
>>> explicitly reference it, right? It's just an optimization if present.
>>>
>>> - Robert
>>
>> The only gotcha is that when you checkout Cython from github you will
>> need to update the submodule.
>
> Manually, right? How badly do things go wrong if you forget to?
(Continue reading)

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Robert Bradshaw | 30 May 2012 00:43
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 3:32 PM, mark florisson
<markflorisson88@...> wrote:
> On 29 May 2012 23:29, Robert Bradshaw <robertwb@...> wrote:
>> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 3:22 PM, mark florisson
>> <markflorisson88@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> I started a new project, https://github.com/markflorisson88/minivect ,
>>>>>>> which currently features a simple C code generator. The specializer
>>>>>>> and astbuilder do most of the work of creating the right AST, so the
>>>>>>> code generator only has to implement code generation functions for
>>>>>>> simple expressions. Depending on how it progresses I will look at
>>>>>>> incorporating Theano's optimizations into it and having Theano use it
>>>>>>> as a C backend for compatible expressions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I forgot to mention, it's still pretty basic, but it works for simple
>>>>>> arithmetic expressions with non-overlapping (shifted) memory from
>>>>>> Cython: https://github.com/markflorisson88/cython/commit/2c316abdbc1228597bbdf480f737a59213ee9532#L4R1
>>>>>
>>>>> So basically, this project is to be used as a git submodule in Cython,
>>>>> and to be shipped directly in the source distribution. Is there any
>>>>> objection to that?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure this is the best long-term solution (the alternative
>>>> would be making it part of Cython or adding a dependency) but I think
>>>> that's fine for now. I'm assuming there that the end user doesn't
>>>> explicitly reference it, right? It's just an optimization if present.
>>>>
>>>> - Robert
>>>
>>> The only gotcha is that when you checkout Cython from github you will
>>> need to update the submodule.
(Continue reading)

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Frédéric Bastien | 30 May 2012 17:27
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Re: [Cython] gsoc: array expressions

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 8:49 AM, mark florisson
<markflorisson88@...> wrote:
> On 25 May 2012 21:53, Frédéric Bastien <nouiz@...> wrote:
>> - About pickling theano, we currently can't pick Theano function. It
>> could be made to work in some cases, but not for all cases as there is
>> hardware dependent optimization in the Theano function. Currently it
>> is mostly CPU vs GPU operation. So if we stay on the CPU, we could do
>> some pickling, but we should make sure that the compiled c code into
>> python module are still there when we unpickle or recompile them.
>>
>> - I think it make sense to make a theano graph from cython ast,
>> optimize and redo a cython ast from the optimized graph. This would
>> allow using Theano optimizations.
>
> Ok, the important thing is that the graph can be pickled, it should be
> pretty straightforward to generate code to build the function again
> from the loaded graph.

We can pickle not compiled graph. So no problem here.

>> - It also make sense to do the code generation in Theano and reuse it
>> in Cython. But this would make the Theano dependency much stronger.
>> I'm not sure you want this.
>>
>>
>> - Another point not raised, theano need to know at compile time is the
>> dtype, number of dimensions and witch dimensions are broadcastable for
>> each variable. I think that the last one could cause problem, but if
>> you use specialization for the dtype, the same can be done for the
>> broadcsatability of a dimensions.
(Continue reading)

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