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Ondrej Certik | 19 Jul 21:44

confirm exit 0 the default?

Hi,

I find that I am always setting the confirm exit to 0 in my
.ipython/ipythonrc each time I install ipython.

What does the majority of users prefer? confirm exit 0 or 1 by default?

I found in docs/attic/ChangeLog

2002-11-02  Fernando Perez  <fperez <at> colorado.edu>

    * IPython/UserConfig/ipythonrc.py: Made confirm_exit 1 by
    default. Now that the default at the confirmation prompt is yes,
    it's not so intrusive. François' argument that ipython sessions
    tend to be complex enough not to lose them from an accidental C-d,
    is a valid one.

So I guess I won't convince you, but nevertheless I find it quite
annoying that ipython asks me -- do you really want to do what you
want to do?
For example Sage sessions can also be very valuable, but it doesn't
ask you if you really want to exit.

Ondrej
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Ryan Krauss | 20 Jul 05:21

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

I just think of the close keyboard binding as Ctrl-D-return, accepting
the default Yes with the return (leaving my confirm exit setting to
1).

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Ondrej Certik <ondrej <at> certik.cz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I find that I am always setting the confirm exit to 0 in my
> .ipython/ipythonrc each time I install ipython.
>
> What does the majority of users prefer? confirm exit 0 or 1 by default?
>
> I found in docs/attic/ChangeLog
>
> 2002-11-02  Fernando Perez  <fperez <at> colorado.edu>
>
>    * IPython/UserConfig/ipythonrc.py: Made confirm_exit 1 by
>    default. Now that the default at the confirmation prompt is yes,
>    it's not so intrusive. François' argument that ipython sessions
>    tend to be complex enough not to lose them from an accidental C-d,
>    is a valid one.
>
>
> So I guess I won't convince you, but nevertheless I find it quite
> annoying that ipython asks me -- do you really want to do what you
> want to do?
> For example Sage sessions can also be very valuable, but it doesn't
> ask you if you really want to exit.
>
>
(Continue reading)

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Fernando Perez | 22 Jul 10:18

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Ondrej Certik <ondrej <at> certik.cz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I find that I am always setting the confirm exit to 0 in my
> .ipython/ipythonrc each time I install ipython.
>
> What does the majority of users prefer? confirm exit 0 or 1 by default?
>
> I found in docs/attic/ChangeLog
>
> 2002-11-02  Fernando Perez  <fperez <at> colorado.edu>
>
>    * IPython/UserConfig/ipythonrc.py: Made confirm_exit 1 by
>    default. Now that the default at the confirmation prompt is yes,
>    it's not so intrusive. François' argument that ipython sessions
>    tend to be complex enough not to lose them from an accidental C-d,
>    is a valid one.
>
>
> So I guess I won't convince you, but nevertheless I find it quite
> annoying that ipython asks me -- do you really want to do what you
> want to do?
> For example Sage sessions can also be very valuable, but it doesn't
> ask you if you really want to exit.

Well, I also hate it and immediately disable it :)  But I do worry
that Ctrl-D is pretty easy to hit accidentally and would rather not
kill unsuspecting users' sessions.

Keep in mind that %Exit/%Quit is *always* an unconditional exit
(Continue reading)

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Ondrej Certik | 22 Jul 11:04

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

> Well, I also hate it and immediately disable it :)  But I do worry
> that Ctrl-D is pretty easy to hit accidentally and would rather not
> kill unsuspecting users' sessions.
>
> Keep in mind that %Exit/%Quit is *always* an unconditional exit
> (though it is more typing...)
>
> This is one of those cases where  we're likely to always have someone
> be unhappy.  But I'd actually be willing to change the default if most
> users would prefer it that way, I honestly don't care much.

I do, because the default is the thing that most people including me
use. I work on many computers and I am lazy to setup each program, so
I prefer the default to be the way I want (obviously:). Another
argument against the change is simply that every change is bad,
because people are used to it and they know how to workaround it. But
still, I'd be at least interested what majority prefers.

We need much more input for this, from everyone: what do you prefer,
confirm yes or no?

Ondrej
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Angus McMorland | 22 Jul 14:00

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

2008/7/22 Ondrej Certik <ondrej <at> certik.cz>:
We need much more input for this, from everyone: what do you prefer,
confirm yes or no?

I'm with Ryan on this one - Ctrl-D-return works well as a quick quit sequence, and gives that extra level of confidence over just a two-key sequence, although I don't think I often accidentally type it anyway. I'd say a further argument for keeping the confirmation on by default is that new users won't so easily know it's an option to switch on, since they'll see nothing, but people who want to disable the feature can probably guess that a switch exists somewhere to do this.

Angus.
--
AJC McMorland, PhD candidate
Physiology, University of Auckland

(Nearly) post-doctoral research fellow
Neurobiology, University of Pittsburgh 
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Ole Trenner | 22 Jul 15:04
Favicon

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

Ondrej Certik wrote:
> We need much more input for this, from everyone: what do you prefer,
> confirm yes or no?

Frankly, I think the confirmation question is annoying. It is very 
Windows-like, where it's more common to ask the user if he really wants 
to do what he is about to do.
In my experience such a confirmation question doesn't help at all in 
preventing accidental actions, because users get used to clicking the 
confirm button (or typing 'Y') without thinking.
So, I'm all in favor of quitting ipython with a simple CTRL-D.

Cheers,
Ole.

--

-- 
Ole Trenner
<ole <at> jayotee.de>
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Robin | 22 Jul 15:18

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Ondrej Certik <ondrej <at> certik.cz> wrote:
> We need much more input for this, from everyone: what do you prefer,
> confirm yes or no?

For what it's worth I'd rather it stay as it is now (ask for
confirmation). If ctrl-D was only for ipython I would agree it wasn't
necessary but since I use ctrl-D all the time for closing terminals,
logging out of ssh sessions etc. I think it is better to keep it.
Accidently logging out of ssh or closing a terminal isn't usually a
problem because the only state there is the current directory -
whereas an ipython session usually has a lot of state that can be a
pain to recreate. A couple of times the confirmation has saved me when
I've been ctrl-d'ing a load of remote sessions away at the end of work
and focus switched to an ipython I had forgotten about.

As someone earlier mentioned when you really do want to quit ipython
it is almost as automatic for me to type ctrl-d return now. Also the
point that people might look to turn it off if it bothers them more
than people might look to turn it on if it's absent seems a valid one.

Cheers

Robin

PS - I'd also like the list mailer to have reply set 'correctly' to
the list so I don't always accidently send it only to the original
poster... but I think discussions happened before.
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Rafael Barreto | 22 Jul 20:05

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

how about just put

execute __IP.magic_q = __IP.magic_Exit

in your ipythonrc file?

So, you could exit just pressing "q".

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Robin <robince <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Ondrej Certik <ondrej <at> certik.cz> wrote:
>> We need much more input for this, from everyone: what do you prefer,
>> confirm yes or no?
>
> For what it's worth I'd rather it stay as it is now (ask for
> confirmation). If ctrl-D was only for ipython I would agree it wasn't
> necessary but since I use ctrl-D all the time for closing terminals,
> logging out of ssh sessions etc. I think it is better to keep it.
> Accidently logging out of ssh or closing a terminal isn't usually a
> problem because the only state there is the current directory -
> whereas an ipython session usually has a lot of state that can be a
> pain to recreate. A couple of times the confirmation has saved me when
> I've been ctrl-d'ing a load of remote sessions away at the end of work
> and focus switched to an ipython I had forgotten about.
>
> As someone earlier mentioned when you really do want to quit ipython
> it is almost as automatic for me to type ctrl-d return now. Also the
> point that people might look to turn it off if it bothers them more
> than people might look to turn it on if it's absent seems a valid one.
>
> Cheers
>
> Robin
>
> PS - I'd also like the list mailer to have reply set 'correctly' to
> the list so I don't always accidently send it only to the original
> poster... but I think discussions happened before.
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-user mailing list
> IPython-user <at> scipy.org
> http://lists.ipython.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-user
>
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Fernando Perez | 24 Jul 00:01

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

Well, given all the feedback, it seems Ondrej that there's enough
pushback from people who do want the out of the box behavior to err on
the side of  safety.  Given how you can use:

- Exit/Quit
- the  magic_q trick
- the ipythonrc setting

to quickly exit, we should probably let this one rest as is.

Sound OK?

f
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Ondrej Certik | 24 Jul 00:42

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, given all the feedback, it seems Ondrej that there's enough
> pushback from people who do want the out of the box behavior to err on
> the side of  safety.  Given how you can use:
>
> - Exit/Quit
> - the  magic_q trick
> - the ipythonrc setting
>
> to quickly exit, we should probably let this one rest as is.

Yep. I just talked about this with Mateusz (one sympy developer) who
is at my place now and he actually likes the confirm yes.
It's interesting, because it never happened to me to pres ctrl-d
accidentaly. But he said it sometimes happen to him.

So, seems like I am in minority here.

>
> Sound OK?

Ok. Thanks for the discussion and sharing your views.

Ondrej
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Fernando Perez | 24 Jul 00:48

Re: confirm exit 0 the default?

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Ondrej Certik <ondrej <at> certik.cz> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> It's interesting, because it never happened to me to pres ctrl-d
> accidentaly. But he said it sometimes happen to him.

Most of us mere mortals do make the occasional  mistake, oh mighty Ondrej ;)

> Ok. Thanks for the discussion and sharing your views.

No worries, thanks for being gracious about it!

Take care,

f
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