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SGD | 6 Sep 2004 00:40

RE: Re: game design techniques

HI Josh,
IMO, Game Programming Gems are great books to have on hand or just to
read through. I have volumes 1-3 and was pretty happy with the info
contained in them. I keep hearing volume 4 has some nice stuff in it but
I haven't read it or looked through it yet. They are highly recommended
books, but not really py related.

I don't really have any link to resources for your other questions on
hand but I know there are many out there (mostly c/c++ releated). But If
I remember correctly there are quite a few pygame example games out
there that cover what you're asking but I don't think many come with
tuts, just code.

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pygame-users@... [mailto:owner-pygame-users@...]
On Behalf Of Josh Close
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:29 PM
To: PYGAME
Subject: [pygame] Re: game design techniques

Has anyone read the "game programming gems" book series? Would these be
helpful?

Any help would be appreciated!

-Josh

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 01:23:37 -0500, Josh Close <narshe@...> wrote:
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Josh Close | 7 Sep 2004 15:45
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Re: Re: game design techniques

Are the game programming gems books all similar? Or are they different
and it would be good to get them all? Is the first book more basic
than the others and progress from there?

-Josh

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:40:51 -0400, SGD <vibrations@...> wrote:
> HI Josh,
> IMO, Game Programming Gems are great books to have on hand or just to
> read through. I have volumes 1-3 and was pretty happy with the info
> contained in them. I keep hearing volume 4 has some nice stuff in it but
> I haven't read it or looked through it yet. They are highly recommended
> books, but not really py related.
> 
> I don't really have any link to resources for your other questions on
> hand but I know there are many out there (mostly c/c++ releated). But If
> I remember correctly there are quite a few pygame example games out
> there that cover what you're asking but I don't think many come with
> tuts, just code.
> 
> Steven
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pygame-users@... [mailto:owner-pygame-users@...]
> On Behalf Of Josh Close
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:29 PM
> To: PYGAME
> Subject: [pygame] Re: game design techniques
(Continue reading)

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Pete Shinners | 7 Sep 2004 16:33
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Re: Re: game design techniques

Josh Close wrote:
> Are the game programming gems books all similar? Or are they different
> and it would be good to get them all? Is the first book more basic
> than the others and progress from there?

Josh, I'd hold off on the Game Gems for now, they mainly cover more 
advanced topics, and it sounds like you're still just beginning. The 
books won't help you with the original questions.

> How do you organize things? How do you get objects to move smoothly?
> How do you get objects to move at different speeds? How do you get
> objects to not go past, say, a wall?

Of these questions, 'organization' is the hardest to answer. It really 
depends on the type of game and the specific roles for your different 
game objects.

As far as movement goes, your best place to start is with some of the 
pygame tutorials, examples, and gamelets. Find something that looks 
interesting, then grab the code and see how it is done.
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Josh Close | 7 Sep 2004 16:49
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Re: Re: game design techniques

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 07:33:04 -0700, Pete Shinners <pete@...> wrote:
> Josh Close wrote:
> > Are the game programming gems books all similar? Or are they different
> > and it would be good to get them all? Is the first book more basic
> > than the others and progress from there?
> 
> Josh, I'd hold off on the Game Gems for now, they mainly cover more
> advanced topics, and it sounds like you're still just beginning. The
> books won't help you with the original questions.
> 

What about game programming in python? Would this be good? Or would it
be reinventing the wheel, since I think that's probably what pygame is
doing.

I suppose I just have to look through a lot of source code to get a
good start, then ask more specific questions when they arise.

-Josh

> 
> > How do you organize things? How do you get objects to move smoothly?
> > How do you get objects to move at different speeds? How do you get
> > objects to not go past, say, a wall?
> 
> Of these questions, 'organization' is the hardest to answer. It really
> depends on the type of game and the specific roles for your different
> game objects.
> 
> As far as movement goes, your best place to start is with some of the
(Continue reading)

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Pat Johnson | 7 Sep 2004 17:21

Re: Re: game design techniques

>> Josh, I'd hold off on the Game Gems for now, they mainly cover
>> more advanced topics, and it sounds like you're still just
>> beginning. The books won't help you with the original questions.

I'll second that. The Game Programming Gems books are more tips and techniques for those who already know
the basics (or even far more than the basics). A lot of the tips are quite specialized.

> What about game programming in python? Would this be good? Or would
> it be reinventing the wheel, since I think that's probably what
> pygame is doing.

Pygame is Python friendly interface and extension to SDL. Think of Pygame as a service provider and
translator that talks to a bunch of specialists (SDL). You ask Pygame to draw something on the screen and
Pygame asks the specialists to do it using their own dialect.

Game Programming in Python adds another layer on top of Pygame and OpenGL. It teaches about the very things
you've been asking about such as organizing code into systems, collision detection (with interpolated
checking), and more. It's a good book that teaches some of the modern concepts of game design like treating
the system as a simulation.

> I suppose I just have to look through a lot of source code to get a
> good start, then ask more specific questions when they arise.

Reading code is something that can help you learn quickly. There are lots of Pygame games and gamelets that
provide full source so you can learn how the author does things. Just keep in mind that there are *many* ways
to create program structure and you'll see lots of good ways, and lots of bad ways. Eventually you'll learn
to discern the good from the bad but it takes time.

Many people learn faster if they just try something and then build on it. I've learned so much writing my game
over the past year that it has been re-written three times so far. As it got bigger I would find flaws and
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Josh Close | 7 Sep 2004 17:45
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Re: Re: game design techniques

Thanks, those links should be very helpful. I guess that was my
concern, bad code. That's why I asked about some sort of development
"standards". Hopefully I'll be able to pick up on bad code design
fairly quickly.

Sounds like the python game book might be useful. I'll have to check it out.

Thanks.

-Josh

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 08:21:23 -0700, Pat Johnson <pat@...> wrote:
> >> Josh, I'd hold off on the Game Gems for now, they mainly cover
> >> more advanced topics, and it sounds like you're still just
> >> beginning. The books won't help you with the original questions.
> 
> I'll second that. The Game Programming Gems books are more tips and techniques for those who already know
the basics (or even far more than the basics). A lot of the tips are quite specialized.
> 
> > What about game programming in python? Would this be good? Or would
> > it be reinventing the wheel, since I think that's probably what
> > pygame is doing.
> 
> Pygame is Python friendly interface and extension to SDL. Think of Pygame as a service provider and
translator that talks to a bunch of specialists (SDL). You ask Pygame to draw something on the screen and
Pygame asks the specialists to do it using their own dialect.
> 
> Game Programming in Python adds another layer on top of Pygame and OpenGL. It teaches about the very things
you've been asking about such as organizing code into systems, collision detection (with interpolated
checking), and more. It's a good book that teaches some of the modern concepts of game design like treating
(Continue reading)

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