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Guido van Rossum | 1 May 18:38
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Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Some of you may have seen a video recorded in November 2006 where I
showed off Mondrian, a code review tool that I was developing for
Google (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMql3Di4Kgc). I've always hoped
that I could release Mondrian as open source, but it was not to be:
due to its popularity inside Google, it became more and more tied to
proprietary Google infrastructure like Bigtable, and it remained
limited to Perforce, the commercial revision control system most used
at Google.

What I'm announcing now is the next best thing: an code review tool
for use with Subversion, inspired by Mondrian and (soon to be)
released as open source. Some of the code is even directly derived
from Mondrian. Most of the code is new though, written using Django
and running on Google App Engine.

I'm inviting the Python developer community to try out the tool on the
web for code reviews. I've added a few code reviews already, but I'm
hoping that more developers will upload at least one patch for review
and invite a reviewer to try it out.

To try it out, go here:

    http://codereview.appspot.com

Please use the Help link in the top right to read more on how to use
the app. Please sign in using your Google Account (either a Gmail
address or a non-Gmail address registered with Google) to interact
more with the app (you need to be signed in to create new issues and
to add comments to existing issues).
(Continue reading)

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Terry Reedy | 1 May 23:42

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

As I understood this,one needs a diff to comment on.
I can imagine wanting, or wanting others, to be able to comment on a file 
or lines of files without making a fake diff (of the file versus itself or 
a blank file). Then only one column would be needed.

I presume the current site is for trial purposes.  You obviously don't want 
hundreds of repositories listed.  Are you planning, for instance, to 
suggest that Google project hosting add a Review tab or link to the project 
pages?

And I followed the link to pages about Rietveld ;-)

tjr
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Guido van Rossum | 2 May 00:41
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy <at> udel.edu> wrote:
> As I understood this,one needs a diff to comment on.
>  I can imagine wanting, or wanting others, to be able to comment on a file
>  or lines of files without making a fake diff (of the file versus itself or
>  a blank file). Then only one column would be needed.

Yeah, this use case is not well supported. In my experience with the
internal tool at Google, I don't think that anybody has ever requested
that feature, so perhaps in practice it's not so common. I mean, who
wants to review a 5000-line file once it's checked in? :-) The right
point for such a review (certainly this is the case at Google) is when
it goes in.

>  I presume the current site is for trial purposes.

Actually I'm hoping to keep it alive forever, just evolving the
functionality based on feedback.

>  You obviously don't want
>  hundreds of repositories listed.

Repository management is a bit of an open problem. Fortunately, when
you use upload.py, you don't need to have a repository listed --
upload.py will specify the correct base URL, especially for
repositories hosted at Google. (I should probably figure out how to
support SourceForge as well...)

>  Are you planning, for instance, to
>  suggest that Google project hosting add a Review tab or link to the project
>  pages?
(Continue reading)

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Terry Reedy | 2 May 01:24

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool


"Guido van Rossum" <guido <at> python.org> wrote in message 
news:ca471dc20805011541y63dd132eo6e67310eaeea3ffa <at> mail.gmail.com...
| On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy <at> udel.edu> wrote:
| > As I understood this,one needs a diff to comment on.
| >  I can imagine wanting, or wanting others, to be able to comment on a 
file
| >  or lines of files without making a fake diff (of the file versus 
itself or
| >  a blank file). Then only one column would be needed.
|
| Yeah, this use case is not well supported. In my experience with the
| internal tool at Google, I don't think that anybody has ever requested
| that feature, so perhaps in practice it's not so common. I mean, who
| wants to review a 5000-line file once it's checked in? :-) The right
| point for such a review (certainly this is the case at Google) is when
| it goes in.

I am thinking of an entirely different scenario: a package of modules that 
are maybe a few hundred lines each and that accompany a book and are meant 
for human reading as much or more than for machine execution.

Or this: 15 minutes ago I was reading a PEP and discovered that a link did 
not work.  So I find the non-clickable author email at the top and notify 
the author with my email program.  But how much nicer to double click an 
adjacent line and stick the comment in place (and let your system do the 
emailing).  (I presume the sponsor of an item in your system can remove 
no-longer-needed comments.)  So I guess I am thinking of your system as one 
for collaborative online editing rather than just patch review.
(Continue reading)

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Guido van Rossum | 2 May 01:29
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:24 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy <at> udel.edu> wrote:
>
>  "Guido van Rossum" <guido <at> python.org> wrote in message
>  news:ca471dc20805011541y63dd132eo6e67310eaeea3ffa <at> mail.gmail.com...
>
> | On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy <at> udel.edu> wrote:
>  | > As I understood this,one needs a diff to comment on.
>  | >  I can imagine wanting, or wanting others, to be able to comment on a
>  file
>  | >  or lines of files without making a fake diff (of the file versus
>  itself or
>  | >  a blank file). Then only one column would be needed.
>  |
>  | Yeah, this use case is not well supported. In my experience with the
>  | internal tool at Google, I don't think that anybody has ever requested
>  | that feature, so perhaps in practice it's not so common. I mean, who
>  | wants to review a 5000-line file once it's checked in? :-) The right
>  | point for such a review (certainly this is the case at Google) is when
>  | it goes in.
>
>  I am thinking of an entirely different scenario: a package of modules that
>  are maybe a few hundred lines each and that accompany a book and are meant
>  for human reading as much or more than for machine execution.
>
>  Or this: 15 minutes ago I was reading a PEP and discovered that a link did
>  not work.  So I find the non-clickable author email at the top and notify
>  the author with my email program.  But how much nicer to double click an
>  adjacent line and stick the comment in place (and let your system do the
>  emailing).  (I presume the sponsor of an item in your system can remove
>  no-longer-needed comments.)  So I guess I am thinking of your system as one
(Continue reading)

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Neal Becker | 2 May 01:37

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

It would be really nice to see support for some other backends, such as Hg
or bzr (which are both written in python), in addition to svn.
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Guido van Rossum | 2 May 01:45
Favicon

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Neal Becker <ndbecker2 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> It would be really nice to see support for some other backends, such as Hg
>  or bzr (which are both written in python), in addition to svn.

Once it's open source feel free to add those!

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Stefan Behnel | 4 May 14:52

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Neal Becker <ndbecker2 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> It would be really nice to see support for some other backends, such as Hg
>>  or bzr (which are both written in python), in addition to svn.
> 
> Once it's open source feel free to add those!

trac supports a pretty wide set of VCSes.

http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/VersioningSystemBackend

Maybe your tools could integrate these backends somehow instead of
re-implementing yet another suite of VCS backend connectors.

Stefan

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Guido van Rossum | 4 May 18:38
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>  > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Neal Becker <ndbecker2 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>  >> It would be really nice to see support for some other backends, such as Hg
>  >>  or bzr (which are both written in python), in addition to svn.
>  >
>  > Once it's open source feel free to add those!
>
>  trac supports a pretty wide set of VCSes.
>
>  http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/VersioningSystemBackend
>
>  Maybe your tools could integrate these backends somehow instead of
>  re-implementing yet another suite of VCS backend connectors.

That depends. If it requires more than plain HTTP requests it
currently cannot be done on AppEngine.

Anyway, I will continue to say, I'm making it open source Monday and
then you can see for yourself how to add this. I don't want to be
writing all the code for this project; I want it to grow with user
contributions.

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Leif Walsh | 2 May 01:47

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Thu, 1 May 2008, Neal Becker wrote:
> It would be really nice to see support for some other backends, such as Hg
> or bzr (which are both written in python), in addition to svn.

/me starts the clamour for git

--

-- 
Cheers,
Leif
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Benjamin Peterson | 2 May 23:09
Gravatar

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
> Some of you may have seen a video recorded in November 2006 where I
>  showed off Mondrian, a code review tool that I was developing for
>  Google (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMql3Di4Kgc). I've always hoped
>  that I could release Mondrian as open source, but it was not to be:
>  due to its popularity inside Google, it became more and more tied to
>  proprietary Google infrastructure like Bigtable, and it remained
>  limited to Perforce, the commercial revision control system most used
>  at Google.

I was salivating over that video, so I'm really excited be able to try
out something like it now.

>  Don't hesitate to drop me a note with feedback -- note though that
>  there are a few known issues listed at the end of the Help page. The
>  Help page is really a wiki, so feel free to improve it!

My request at the moment is to let people use their real names for
display; my email address does not at all resemble my name.

--

-- 
Cheers,
Benjamin Peterson
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Guido van Rossum | 2 May 23:25
Favicon

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Benjamin Peterson
<musiccomposition <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
>  > Some of you may have seen a video recorded in November 2006 where I
>  >  showed off Mondrian, a code review tool that I was developing for
>  >  Google (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMql3Di4Kgc). I've always hoped
>  >  that I could release Mondrian as open source, but it was not to be:
>  >  due to its popularity inside Google, it became more and more tied to
>  >  proprietary Google infrastructure like Bigtable, and it remained
>  >  limited to Perforce, the commercial revision control system most used
>  >  at Google.
>
>  I was salivating over that video, so I'm really excited be able to try
>  out something like it now.
>
>
>  >  Don't hesitate to drop me a note with feedback -- note though that
>  >  there are a few known issues listed at the end of the Help page. The
>  >  Help page is really a wiki, so feel free to improve it!
>
>  My request at the moment is to let people use their real names for
>  display; my email address does not at all resemble my name.

I've noticed. Surely there's an interesting story there. :-)

The feature request is on my TODO list. The design is a bit involved,
since I'd have to ask people to register and maintain a userid ->
nickname mapping; the Google Account API we're piggybacking on only
gives you the email address. Once it's open sourced (Monday?) I'd love
to see contributions like this!
(Continue reading)

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Benjamin Peterson | 2 May 23:28
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Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
>  >  My request at the moment is to let people use their real names for
>  >  display; my email address does not at all resemble my name.
>
>  I've noticed. Surely there's an interesting story there. :-)

Maybe I tell you why next PyCon...

One more question: What's the number on the upper right hand corner by
my username?

--

-- 
Cheers,
Benjamin Peterson
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Guido van Rossum | 2 May 23:39
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Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Benjamin Peterson
<musiccomposition <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>  One more question: What's the number on the upper right hand corner by
>  my username?

It's a debugging counter. It gets reset each time a new service
instance is created.

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Stefan Behnel | 3 May 13:17

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> What I'm announcing now is the next best thing: an code review tool
> for use with Subversion, inspired by Mondrian and (soon to be)
> released as open source. Some of the code is even directly derived
> from Mondrian. Most of the code is new though, written using Django
> and running on Google App Engine.
> 
> To try it out, go here:
> 
>     http://codereview.appspot.com

Any chance to try it without signing contracts with Google?

Stefan

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Terry Reedy | 3 May 20:46

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool


"Stefan Behnel" <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote in message 
news:481C49E5.6080403 <at> behnel.de...
| Any chance to try it without signing contracts with Google?

Depends:

Yes.  You may read anything without an account.

No.  You may not write anything to a Google hosted service without a Google 
account, agreeing to standard Terms of Service, and signing in.  This will 
not change.

Maybe. You might someday be able to write without a Google account IF Guido 
can release as open source and IF someone adapts it to work on a different 
platform (Django with regular DB backend) and then hosts it elsewhere.  Of 
course, any such alternative would probably also require an account and 
Terms of Service agreement.

tjr

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Guido van Rossum | 3 May 21:24
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy <at> udel.edu> wrote:
>
>  "Stefan Behnel" <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote in message
>  news:481C49E5.6080403 <at> behnel.de...
>
> | Any chance to try it without signing contracts with Google?
>
>  Depends:
>
>  Yes.  You may read anything without an account.
>
>  No.  You may not write anything to a Google hosted service without a Google
>  account, agreeing to standard Terms of Service, and signing in.  This will
>  not change.

That's not true for apps hosted under AppEngine. Apps are not required
to request users to log in before they upload things. I chose to do
this for the review app because I don't like the idea of anonymous
comments and uploads (and the spam danger).

>  Maybe. You might someday be able to write without a Google account IF Guido
>  can release as open source

It will be released as open source (Apache 2) on Monday. I'm just
cleaning up the code a bit.

>  and IF someone adapts it to work on a different
>  platform (Django with regular DB backend) and then hosts it elsewhere.

No, that won't be necessary. If someone contributes an alternate
(Continue reading)

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Stefan Behnel | 4 May 11:58

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Hi,

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy <at> udel.edu> wrote:
>>  and IF someone adapts it to work on a different
>>  platform (Django with regular DB backend) and then hosts it elsewhere.
> 
> No, that won't be necessary. If someone contributes an alternate
> authentication system I'd be happy to adopt it.

Personally, I would consider the following sufficient:

1) people who have authenticated themselves against the underlying VCS (i.e.
project members) may post public comments and comment on other comments

2) anonymous users can post comments that won't become publicly visible until
an authenticated user acknowledges them or comments on them.

That should be enough to keep the system open to everybody and to keep spam away.

>>  Of
>>  course, any such alternative would probably also require an account and
>>  Terms of Service agreement.
> 
> You're seeing this to strictly. While developers hosting their app are
> held by an Google terms of service agreement, they are not required to
> hold their users to such an agreement.

I agree with that, it's about commensurability. People who use my service
shouldn't be bothered with the contracts I signed with my own service
(Continue reading)

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Guido van Rossum | 4 May 18:36
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote:
>  Personally, I would consider the following sufficient:
>
>  1) people who have authenticated themselves against the underlying VCS (i.e.
>  project members) may post public comments and comment on other comments

Tell me how to authenticate against a SVN project using HTTP only.

>  2) anonymous users can post comments that won't become publicly visible until
>  an authenticated user acknowledges them or comments on them.

Can you work out this design more? I don't understand how an
authenticated user can acknowledge an anonymous comment if it isn't
publicly visible. Also, AFAIK our bug tracker doesn't support
anonymous comments either, so I don't think this is an important use
case.

>  That should be enough to keep the system open to everybody and to keep spam away.

It's also more work to code. Once I've released the code I'll let
others decide whether they want to contribute such features.

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Stefan Behnel | 4 May 18:52

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote:
>>  Personally, I would consider the following sufficient:
>>
>>  1) people who have authenticated themselves against the underlying VCS (i.e.
>>  project members) may post public comments and comment on other comments
> 
> Tell me how to authenticate against a SVN project using HTTP only.

Good question. :)

>>  2) anonymous users can post comments that won't become publicly visible until
>>  an authenticated user acknowledges them or comments on them.
> 
> Can you work out this design more? I don't understand how an
> authenticated user can acknowledge an anonymous comment if it isn't
> publicly visible.

I was suggesting that you'd sign in as a project member and would then see all
comments. They just wouldn't show up on the public web sites without further
action. I think that matches the normal work flow. External users usually do
some kind of upstream talk anyway. It would be rare that no project member is
involved in a patch contribution. And new contributions would go through the
bug tracker first anway, right?

> Also, AFAIK our bug tracker doesn't support
> anonymous comments either, so I don't think this is an important use
> case.

>>  That should be enough to keep the system open to everybody and to keep spam away.
(Continue reading)

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Guido van Rossum | 4 May 19:01
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

[Stefan, can you please keep python-dev in the CC list?]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>  > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote:

>  >>  2) anonymous users can post comments that won't become publicly visible until
>  >>  an authenticated user acknowledges them or comments on them.
>  >
>  > Can you work out this design more? I don't understand how an
>  > authenticated user can acknowledge an anonymous comment if it isn't
>  > publicly visible.
>
>  I was suggesting that you'd sign in as a project member and would then see all
>  comments.

Hm. Since most users of the site are project members this means most
people would see the anonymous comments (= potential spam). However,
the anonymous user couldn't see their *own* comments back later (or be
allowed to edit them). Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

> They just wouldn't show up on the public web sites without further
>  action. I think that matches the normal work flow. External users usually do
>  some kind of upstream talk anyway. It would be rare that no project member is
>  involved in a patch contribution. And new contributions would go through the
>  bug tracker first anway, right?

Not necessarily.

Unless there's an uprising, I'll keep support for anonymous comments a
(Continue reading)

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Gregory P. Smith | 4 May 20:24
Favicon

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool



On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote:
>  Personally, I would consider the following sufficient:
>
>  1) people who have authenticated themselves against the underlying VCS (i.e.
>  project members) may post public comments and comment on other comments

Tell me how to authenticate against a SVN project using HTTP only.

>  2) anonymous users can post comments that won't become publicly visible until
>  an authenticated user acknowledges them or comments on them.

Can you work out this design more? I don't understand how an
authenticated user can acknowledge an anonymous comment if it isn't
publicly visible. Also, AFAIK our bug tracker doesn't support
anonymous comments either, so I don't think this is an important use
case.

Rather than svn authentication i suggest just piggybacking on top of the bug trackers authentication.  that is an integration i think we should aim for anyways and it should keep the no-google-account fear mongers happy.  code comments (as bug comments are today) should not require svn commit access.

anyways, i expect someone else may implement that once the code is out there.

-gps

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Guido van Rossum | 4 May 20:45
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Gregory P. Smith <greg <at> krypto.org> wrote:
> Rather than svn authentication i suggest just piggybacking on top of the bug
> trackers authentication.  that is an integration i think we should aim for
> anyways and it should keep the no-google-account fear mongers happy.  code
> comments (as bug comments are today) should not require svn commit access.

The problem with this is that I'd like to have a single codereview
webapp that serves many projects, as long as they use subversion. The
scalability of AppEngine should make this a very attractive solution.
Integrating with each separate bug tracker however would be a pain.

> anyways, i expect someone else may implement that once the code is out
> there.

I sure hope so. :-)

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Joe Smith | 5 May 17:27
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool


"Guido van Rossum" <guido <at> python.org> wrote in message 
news:ca471dc20805040936nf06de9dk77f37433254b0495 <at> mail.gmail.com...
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote:
>>  Personally, I would consider the following sufficient:
>>
>>  1) people who have authenticated themselves against the underlying VCS 
>> (i.e.
>>  project members) may post public comments and comment on other comments
>
> Tell me how to authenticate against a SVN project using HTTP only.
>

Hmm... Is there a good reason not to just migrate over to OpenID?
For one thing, surely an OpenID provider could exist that just authenticates 
a username against an SVN account. Then many people already have a Yahoo 
account or AOL screenname. On the downside, the OpenID system will likely 
not be terribly effective at avoiding spam in the long run, as spammers 
register accounts at providers (especially those without or with weak 
Captchas). On the otherhand, there are already reports of Spammers mass 
signing-up for Google accounts, so it may not be that different in the long 
run anyway. 

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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 18:28
Favicon

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

If you're asking for reasons not to do this:

- AppEngine has a built-in API for dealing with Google Accounts, but
not for OpenID

- Apparently OpenID requires some crypto that would be slow without
additional API support

- I'm not personally familiar with OpenID

None of these seem insurmountable, so now that it's open source, I'm
looking forward to contributions.

--Guido

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Joe Smith <unknown_kev_cat <at> hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  "Guido van Rossum" <guido <at> python.org> wrote in message
> news:ca471dc20805040936nf06de9dk77f37433254b0495 <at> mail.gmail.com...
>
>
> > On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml <at> behnel.de> wrote:
> >
> > >  Personally, I would consider the following sufficient:
> > >
> > >  1) people who have authenticated themselves against the underlying VCS
> (i.e.
> > >  project members) may post public comments and comment on other comments
> > >
> >
> > Tell me how to authenticate against a SVN project using HTTP only.
> >
> >
>
>  Hmm... Is there a good reason not to just migrate over to OpenID?
>  For one thing, surely an OpenID provider could exist that just
> authenticates a username against an SVN account. Then many people already
> have a Yahoo account or AOL screenname. On the downside, the OpenID system
> will likely not be terribly effective at avoiding spam in the long run, as
> spammers register accounts at providers (especially those without or with
> weak Captchas). On the otherhand, there are already reports of Spammers mass
> signing-up for Google accounts, so it may not be that different in the long
> run anyway.
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Python-Dev mailing list
>  Python-Dev <at> python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
>  Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org
>

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Raghuram Devarakonda | 5 May 18:49

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:

>  None of these seem insurmountable, so now that it's open source, I'm
>  looking forward to contributions.

Are there any mailing lists associated with this project? I looked at
google code page but couldn't find any.

Thanks,
Raghu
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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 19:25
Favicon

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Raghuram Devarakonda
<draghuram <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
>
>  >  None of these seem insurmountable, so now that it's open source, I'm
>  >  looking forward to contributions.
>
>  Are there any mailing lists associated with this project? I looked at
>  google code page but couldn't find any.

Not yet. Do you want me to create a Google group for it?

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Raghuram Devarakonda | 5 May 19:28

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

>  >  Are there any mailing lists associated with this project? I looked at
>  >  google code page but couldn't find any.
>
>  Not yet. Do you want me to create a Google group for it?

I think that will be very useful.
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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 19:36
Favicon

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Done. I've sent an invite to this list, but just in case it doesn't
make it, here's the group home page:

http://groups.google.com/group/codereview-discuss

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Raghuram Devarakonda
<draghuram <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> >  >  Are there any mailing lists associated with this project? I looked at
>  >  >  google code page but couldn't find any.
>  >
>  >  Not yet. Do you want me to create a Google group for it?
>
>  I think that will be very useful.
>

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven | 6 May 09:48
Gravatar

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

-On [20080505 18:28], Guido van Rossum (guido <at> python.org) wrote:
>- AppEngine has a built-in API for dealing with Google Accounts, but
>not for OpenID
>
>- Apparently OpenID requires some crypto that would be slow without
>additional API support
>
>- I'm not personally familiar with OpenID

Check out http://openid-provider.appspot.com/

Apparently it was created by your colleague Ryan Barrett. :)

--

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org> / asmodai
イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..?
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Guido van Rossum | 6 May 19:23
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote:
> -On [20080505 18:28], Guido van Rossum (guido <at> python.org) wrote:
>  >- AppEngine has a built-in API for dealing with Google Accounts, but
>  >not for OpenID
>  >
>  >- Apparently OpenID requires some crypto that would be slow without
>  >additional API support
>  >
>  >- I'm not personally familiar with OpenID
>
>  Check out http://openid-provider.appspot.com/
>
>  Apparently it was created by your colleague Ryan Barrett. :)

It solves the opposite problem -- using a Google Account to log in to
an app that requires OpenID. People are clamoring for the opposite
here.

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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"Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis=22?= | 7 May 07:10

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

>>  Check out http://openid-provider.appspot.com/
>>
>>  Apparently it was created by your colleague Ryan Barrett. :)

I found that to be of limited use. If I use my proper gmail account
(mvloewis <at> googlemail.com), I managed to log into the OpenID directory,
but not, say, into SourceForge (probably because SF doesn't accept
that specific provider - so it's not truly open, and probably shouldn't
be).

If I used it with the Google account associated with my regular email
address, I couldn't login anywhere at all.

In any case, this provider apparently didn't provide an email address
to the site. That makes it useless for most applications I can think
of, unless it's acceptable to go through a setup procedure again at
the new site that asks for all the user details (real name, email
address) again.

> It solves the opposite problem -- using a Google Account to log in to
> an app that requires OpenID. People are clamoring for the opposite
> here.

Apparently, this comes from the appengine samples,

http://code.google.com/p/google-app-engine-samples/

which also includes an OpenID consumer.

I'm fairly skeptical about this OpenID thing. I personally couldn't
remember any of my OpenIDs, because they are just too long; plus
I haven't actually seen this really work anywhere yet.

Regards,
Martin

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Gregory P. Smith | 3 May 22:20
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Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool



To try it out, go here:

   http://codereview.appspot.com

Please use the Help link in the top right to read more on how to use
the app. Please sign in using your Google Account (either a Gmail
address or a non-Gmail address registered with Google) to interact
more with the app (you need to be signed in to create new issues and
to add comments to existing issues).

Don't hesitate to drop me a note with feedback -- note though that
there are a few known issues listed at the end of the Help page. The
Help page is really a wiki, so feel free to improve it!

I'd be great to integrate this with the bug tracker so that all submitted patches automagically show up in codereview with links to one another.

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Brett Cannon | 3 May 23:28
Favicon

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Gregory P. Smith <greg <at> krypto.org> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > To try it out, go here:
> >
> >    http://codereview.appspot.com
> >
> > Please use the Help link in the top right to read more on how to use
> > the app. Please sign in using your Google Account (either a Gmail
> > address or a non-Gmail address registered with Google) to interact
> > more with the app (you need to be signed in to create new issues and
> > to add comments to existing issues).
> >
> > Don't hesitate to drop me a note with feedback -- note though that
> > there are a few known issues listed at the end of the Help page. The
> > Help page is really a wiki, so feel free to improve it!
>
> I'd be great to integrate this with the bug tracker so that all submitted
> patches automagically show up in codereview with links to one another.

Yeah, or a simple button to move it over there.  Either way some
integration would be cool.

Since this is being open-sourced we could probably have a python-dev
instance installed that has all this bonus functionality for us if we
can get an appspot account for the tracker team and there is some API
we can tap into in order to create new issues.

-Brett
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Alex Martelli | 3 May 23:35
Gravatar

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Brett Cannon <brett <at> python.org> wrote:
   ...
>  > I'd be great to integrate this with the bug tracker so that all submitted
>  > patches automagically show up in codereview with links to one another.
>
>  Yeah, or a simple button to move it over there.  Either way some
>  integration would be cool.
>
>  Since this is being open-sourced we could probably have a python-dev
>  instance installed that has all this bonus functionality for us if we
>  can get an appspot account for the tracker team and there is some API
>  we can tap into in order to create new issues.

Given the app engine model, I guess any "API" to an app engine-hosted
service would have to be of the RESTful kind, i.e., some URLs to which
client-code can POST appropriately.

Alex
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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 05:38
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

This code is now open source! Browse it here:

  http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse

--Guido

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
> Some of you may have seen a video recorded in November 2006 where I
>  showed off Mondrian, a code review tool that I was developing for
>  Google (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMql3Di4Kgc). I've always hoped
>  that I could release Mondrian as open source, but it was not to be:
>  due to its popularity inside Google, it became more and more tied to
>  proprietary Google infrastructure like Bigtable, and it remained
>  limited to Perforce, the commercial revision control system most used
>  at Google.
>
>  What I'm announcing now is the next best thing: an code review tool
>  for use with Subversion, inspired by Mondrian and (soon to be)
>  released as open source. Some of the code is even directly derived
>  from Mondrian. Most of the code is new though, written using Django
>  and running on Google App Engine.
>
>  I'm inviting the Python developer community to try out the tool on the
>  web for code reviews. I've added a few code reviews already, but I'm
>  hoping that more developers will upload at least one patch for review
>  and invite a reviewer to try it out.
>
>  To try it out, go here:
>
>     http://codereview.appspot.com
>
>  Please use the Help link in the top right to read more on how to use
>  the app. Please sign in using your Google Account (either a Gmail
>  address or a non-Gmail address registered with Google) to interact
>  more with the app (you need to be signed in to create new issues and
>  to add comments to existing issues).
>
>  Don't hesitate to drop me a note with feedback -- note though that
>  there are a few known issues listed at the end of the Help page. The
>  Help page is really a wiki, so feel free to improve it!
>
>  --
>  --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 05:42
Favicon

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

I forgot -- you need to link or copy the 'django' directory from
Django 0.97.pre into the app directory. Otherwise you'll be using the
Django 0.96.1 that's included with the AppEngine runtime, and the code
is not compatible with that version.

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
> This code is now open source! Browse it here:
>
>   http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
>
>  --Guido
>
>
>
>  On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
>  > Some of you may have seen a video recorded in November 2006 where I
>  >  showed off Mondrian, a code review tool that I was developing for
>  >  Google (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMql3Di4Kgc). I've always hoped
>  >  that I could release Mondrian as open source, but it was not to be:
>  >  due to its popularity inside Google, it became more and more tied to
>  >  proprietary Google infrastructure like Bigtable, and it remained
>  >  limited to Perforce, the commercial revision control system most used
>  >  at Google.
>  >
>  >  What I'm announcing now is the next best thing: an code review tool
>  >  for use with Subversion, inspired by Mondrian and (soon to be)
>  >  released as open source. Some of the code is even directly derived
>  >  from Mondrian. Most of the code is new though, written using Django
>  >  and running on Google App Engine.
>  >
>  >  I'm inviting the Python developer community to try out the tool on the
>  >  web for code reviews. I've added a few code reviews already, but I'm
>  >  hoping that more developers will upload at least one patch for review
>  >  and invite a reviewer to try it out.
>  >
>  >  To try it out, go here:
>  >
>  >     http://codereview.appspot.com
>  >
>  >  Please use the Help link in the top right to read more on how to use
>  >  the app. Please sign in using your Google Account (either a Gmail
>  >  address or a non-Gmail address registered with Google) to interact
>  >  more with the app (you need to be signed in to create new issues and
>  >  to add comments to existing issues).
>  >
>  >  Don't hesitate to drop me a note with feedback -- note though that
>  >  there are a few known issues listed at the end of the Help page. The
>  >  Help page is really a wiki, so feel free to improve it!
>  >
>  >  --
>  >  --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>  >
>
>
>
>  --
>  --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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"Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis=22?= | 5 May 18:46

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

> This code is now open source! Browse it here:
> 
>   http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse

Are you also going to call it Rietveld then? Sounds better
to me than "the open source code review tool".

Regards,
Martin
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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 19:24
Favicon

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <martin <at> v.loewis.de> wrote:
> > This code is now open source! Browse it here:
>  >
>  >   http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
>
>  Are you also going to call it Rietveld then? Sounds better
>  to me than "the open source code review tool".

I've been reluctant to use the Rietveld name too much since Americans
can't spell it. :-) But the open source project *is* called Rietveld,
so I suppose I should start using that name...

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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skip | 5 May 19:32
Favicon

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool


    Guido> I've been reluctant to use the Rietveld name too much since
    Guido> Americans can't spell it. :-) But the open source project *is*
    Guido> called Rietveld, so I suppose I should start using that name...

Which reminds me...  What's it mean?  All I saw was a Dutch city and
(maybe?) a Dutch architect by that name.

Skip
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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 19:33
Favicon

Re: [Python-Dev] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:32 AM,  <skip <at> pobox.com> wrote:
>
>     Guido> I've been reluctant to use the Rietveld name too much since
>     Guido> Americans can't spell it. :-) But the open source project *is*
>     Guido> called Rietveld, so I suppose I should start using that name...
>
>  Which reminds me...  What's it mean?  All I saw was a Dutch city and
>  (maybe?) a Dutch architect by that name.
>
>  Skip
>

http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/wiki/CodeReviewBackground

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Georg Brandl | 5 May 19:56
Gravatar

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Guido van Rossum schrieb:
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <martin <at> v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> > This code is now open source! Browse it here:
>>  >
>>  >   http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
>>
>>  Are you also going to call it Rietveld then? Sounds better
>>  to me than "the open source code review tool".
> 
> I've been reluctant to use the Rietveld name too much since Americans
> can't spell it. :-) But the open source project *is* called Rietveld,
> so I suppose I should start using that name...

BTW, Google code's Python highlighting is broken, look at
http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse/trunk/views.py line 205ff.

Where can this be reported?

Georg

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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 20:56
Favicon

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

That's a good question. I'll find out.

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Georg Brandl <g.brandl <at> gmx.net> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum schrieb:
>
>
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <martin <at> v.loewis.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > This code is now open source! Browse it here:
> > >  >
> > >  >   http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
> > >
> > >  Are you also going to call it Rietveld then? Sounds better
> > >  to me than "the open source code review tool".
> > >
> >
> > I've been reluctant to use the Rietveld name too much since Americans
> > can't spell it. :-) But the open source project *is* called Rietveld,
> > so I suppose I should start using that name...
> >
>
>  BTW, Google code's Python highlighting is broken, look at
>  http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse/trunk/views.py line 205ff.
>
>  Where can this be reported?
>
>  Georg
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Python-Dev mailing list
>  Python-Dev <at> python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
>  Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org
>

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Daniel Berlin | 5 May 21:21

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

There is a google code support project where google code issues are tracked.

http://code.google.com/p/support/

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
> That's a good question. I'll find out.
>
>
>
>  On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Georg Brandl <g.brandl <at> gmx.net> wrote:
>  > Guido van Rossum schrieb:
>  >
>  >
>  > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <martin <at> v.loewis.de>
>  > wrote:
>  > >
>  > > > > This code is now open source! Browse it here:
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  >   http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
>  > > >
>  > > >  Are you also going to call it Rietveld then? Sounds better
>  > > >  to me than "the open source code review tool".
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > > I've been reluctant to use the Rietveld name too much since Americans
>  > > can't spell it. :-) But the open source project *is* called Rietveld,
>  > > so I suppose I should start using that name...
>  > >
>  >
>  >  BTW, Google code's Python highlighting is broken, look at
>  >  http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse/trunk/views.py line 205ff.
>  >
>  >  Where can this be reported?
>  >
>  >  Georg
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
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>  >  Python-Dev <at> python.org
>  >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
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>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org
>
> >
>
>
>
>  --
>  --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>  _______________________________________________
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Guido van Rossum | 5 May 22:38
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Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open source code review tool

I reported this: http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/detail?id=1006

The tracker is here: http://code.google.com/p/support/issues

Thanks!

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Georg Brandl <g.brandl <at> gmx.net> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum schrieb:
>
>
> > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:46 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" <martin <at> v.loewis.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > This code is now open source! Browse it here:
> > >  >
> > >  >   http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
> > >
> > >  Are you also going to call it Rietveld then? Sounds better
> > >  to me than "the open source code review tool".
> > >
> >
> > I've been reluctant to use the Rietveld name too much since Americans
> > can't spell it. :-) But the open source project *is* called Rietveld,
> > so I suppose I should start using that name...
> >
>
>  BTW, Google code's Python highlighting is broken, look at
>  http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse/trunk/views.py line 205ff.
>
>  Where can this be reported?
>
>  Georg
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Python-Dev mailing list
>  Python-Dev <at> python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
>  Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/guido%40python.org
>

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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Terry Reedy | 5 May 20:43

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open sourcecode review tool


"Guido van Rossum" <guido <at> python.org> wrote in message 
news:ca471dc20805051024v4b88f28fvc0b713529dd08e68 <at> mail.gmail.com...
|I've been reluctant to use the Rietveld name too much since Americans
can't spell it. :-)

Well, it follows the i before e rule, so I think I will manage.
And it is a nice name, unlike Unix 'creat'.
In any case, American programmers are not 'average' Americans ;-).
So I say use it! 

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Greg Ewing | 6 May 03:05

Re: [Python-3000] Invitation to try out open sourcecode review tool

Terry Reedy wrote:

> In any case, American programmers are not 'average' Americans ;-).
> So I say use it!

Plus, think of all the millions of people who will have
their lives enriched by learning to spell 'Rietveld'
properly!

--

-- 
Greg
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Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven | 6 May 09:51
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

-On [20080505 05:38], Guido van Rossum (guido <at> python.org) wrote:
>  http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse

Is it a reference to Gerrit Rietveld (Dutch architect and furniture
designer)? I guess the architect part would make sense for a code review
tool. :)

--

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org> / asmodai
イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン
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If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..?
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Guido van Rossum | 6 May 19:26
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
<asmodai <at> in-nomine.org> wrote:
> -On [20080505 05:38], Guido van Rossum (guido <at> python.org) wrote:
>  >  http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
>
>  Is it a reference to Gerrit Rietveld (Dutch architect and furniture
>  designer)?

Yes, as I explain here:
http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/wiki/CodeReviewBackground

> I guess the architect part would make sense for a code review
>  tool. :)

That's purely a coincidence. My dad was an architect and took me on
trips of Rietveld's work. I also own some fairly original Zig Zag
chairs (much to my family's despair, as they aren't too comfortable.
:-)

--

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Alexander Michael | 6 May 19:41

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido <at> python.org> wrote:
> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
>  <asmodai <at> in-nomine.org> wrote:
>  > -On [20080505 05:38], Guido van Rossum (guido <at> python.org) wrote:
>  >  >  http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/source/browse
>  >
>  >  Is it a reference to Gerrit Rietveld (Dutch architect and furniture
>  >  designer)?
>
>  Yes, as I explain here:
>  http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/wiki/CodeReviewBackground
>
>
>  > I guess the architect part would make sense for a code review
>  >  tool. :)
>
>  That's purely a coincidence. My dad was an architect and took me on
>  trips of Rietveld's work. I also own some fairly original Zig Zag
>  chairs (much to my family's despair, as they aren't too comfortable.
>  :-)

Was it also a coincidence that Mondrian and Rietveld were both members
of the De Stijl movement? If so, a very nice one!
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Guido van Rossum | 6 May 19:50
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Alexander Michael <lxander.m <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>  Was it also a coincidence that Mondrian and Rietveld were both members
>  of the De Stijl movement? If so, a very nice one!

No, that's my naming scheme. :-)

--

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Terry Reedy | 6 May 22:22

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool


"Guido van Rossum" <guido <at> python.org> wrote in message 
news:ca471dc20805061050w55836effn4fefcca8a0a635ea <at> mail.gmail.com...
| On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Alexander Michael <lxander.m <at> gmail.com> 
wrote:
| >  Was it also a coincidence that Mondrian and Rietveld were both members
| >  of the De Stijl movement? If so, a very nice one!
|
| No, that's my naming scheme. :-)

Neat.  I think I see a few echoes of De Stijl esthetic in Python.

"Proponents of De Stijl sought to express a new utopian ideal of spiritual 
harmony and order. They advocated pure abstraction and universality by a 
reduction to the essentials of form and colour" from 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_stijl

The group was one of the best things to come out of the Great Stupid War.

I wonder who is next.  Van Doesburg, the group's BDFL?
(I know... wait ;-)

tjr 

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Greg Ewing | 7 May 00:16

Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote:

> Is it a reference to Gerrit Rietveld (Dutch architect and furniture
> designer)? I guess the architect part would make sense for a code review
> tool. :)

According to Wikipedia, he was also a friend of Mondrian
and incorporated some of Mondrian's ideas into his
designs.

--

-- 
Greg

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Andy Armstrong | 2 May 21:39
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

Hi Guido,

I'm afraid I've added a Perl based project (Test::Harness). I then  
went back and read your post and got to the bit where you specifically  
invited *Python* developers. Sorry about that. I'm not trying to  
colonise Pythonspace with Perl, honest :)

--

-- 
Andy Armstrong, Hexten
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Guido van Rossum | 6 May 19:19
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Re: Invitation to try out open source code review tool

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Andy Armstrong <andy <at> hexten.net> wrote:
> Hi Guido,
>
>  I'm afraid I've added a Perl based project (Test::Harness). I then went
> back and read your post and got to the bit where you specifically invited
> *Python* developers. Sorry about that. I'm not trying to colonise
> Pythonspace with Perl, honest :)

No problem! I didn't mean to be exclusive. You're more than welcome to
use Rietveld. We'll be making an announcement later today that opens
it up for everyone anyway, and any experiences you have to share are
welcome on the codereview-discuss Google group.

--

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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