Basic computer security

alain.karioty | 4 Jul 2012 10:52

Re: Re: mcafee DDOS solution

ISP can block volumetric DDoS attacks (layer 2/3).

When the attack is build with tools like LOIC, SLOW LORIS, HULK, Hping,... the ISP cannot do anything.

The ISP only count packets and look on traffic anomaly. All the tools used today for DDoS are working on layer
7 and have similar behaviour as a legitimate connection.

The right strategy is ISP service for volumetric attacks and on premise DDoS Defense solution for Layer 7
attacks, reflective attacks (spoofing), specially crafted packets attacks and other kind of attacks
which may be generated by internal hosts compromised.

Regards,

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Yannick Chanoine | 4 Jul 2012 11:30

RE: Re: mcafee DDOS solution

Hi,

You can act on DDoS on Layer 4 and apply policies to shape traffic : 

http://www.allot.com/Service_Protector.html (previously Esphion)

http://www.arbornetworks.com/arbor-pravail-availability-protection-system.ht
ml

Regards,

Yannick

-----Message d'origine-----
De : listbounce <at> securityfocus.com [mailto:listbounce <at> securityfocus.com] De
la part de alain.karioty <at> corero.com
Envoyé : mercredi 4 juillet 2012 10:52
À : security-basics <at> securityfocus.com
Objet : Re: Re: mcafee DDOS solution

ISP can block volumetric DDoS attacks (layer 2/3).

When the attack is build with tools like LOIC, SLOW LORIS, HULK, Hping,...
the ISP cannot do anything.

The ISP only count packets and look on traffic anomaly. All the tools used
today for DDoS are working on layer 7 and have similar behaviour as a
legitimate connection.

The right strategy is ISP service for volumetric attacks and on premise DDoS

(Continue reading)

headers

pentester | 4 Jul 2012 12:17

Re: mcafee DDOS solution

I'm sorry to say, but a company or individual can not protect against DDos on layer 4. Not even with an Allot
ServiceProtector. I'm sure the Allot ServiceProtector can detect a DDoS and drop packets after it is
determined they are malicious, but it can't prevent the packets are delivered to the Allot
ServiceProtector itself. And DoSsing the Allot ServiceProtector also means that all services
protected by it are DoSsed as well. 

Imagine this: a security guard is protecting the entrance of a supermarket and only allow entrance to real
customers (let's assume the guard can tell the difference between bad and good customers). Now a
football/soccer/baseball stadium full of people approach the supermarket. The entrance is blocked,
because the street can't handle that amount of simultaneous pedestrians. The security guard makes sure
the bad traffic is dropped (exits through a facility that can handle this enormous load. Now the good
traffic, all three of them, can't reach the entrance because 50.000 pieces of bad traffic is blocking it.
The supermarket is DoSsed, no matter how good the security guard does it's job.

The comparison is not completely valid. In real, a DoS in the internet world is even worse. Even if there is
some magic that reduces the effect of the DDoS, the attacker can always decide to saturate the victim's
access router, making even the Allot ServiceProtector inaccessible.

The Allot ServiceProtector would probably help to prevent that you DoS something 

Cor

On Jul 4, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Yannick Chanoine wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> You can act on DDoS on Layer 4 and apply policies to shape traffic : 
> 
> http://www.allot.com/Service_Protector.html (previously Esphion)
>

(Continue reading)

headers

Yannick Chanoine | 4 Jul 2012 13:39

RE: mcafee DDOS solution

These tools are proposed to companies in order to give information on botnet
propagation, outgoing spam or, as you say, outgoing DDoS
Regarding DDos the only approach (IMHO) is to filter or shape on the ISP's
backbones or peering points, where bandwidth is not a matter.
If you filter suspicious traffic in places where bandwidth is not a problem,
then you "solve" the problem.

Back to your example, you can avoid the traffic jam by : 
- filtering the hooligans right out the stadium (outgoing DDoS filtered at
the company or individual access point); --> financial and technical
problems will seriously limit this option
- filtering and shaping traffic on the highway (left lane for actual
customers, middle lane for neighborhood, right lane for tourists, toll for
hooligans...).

Regards,

Yannick 

-----Message d'origine-----
De : pentester [mailto:pentester <at> surfhier.nl] 
Envoyé : mercredi 4 juillet 2012 12:18
À : Yannick Chanoine
Cc : security-basics <at> securityfocus.com
Objet : Re: mcafee DDOS solution

I'm sorry to say, but a company or individual can not protect against DDos
on layer 4. Not even with an Allot ServiceProtector. I'm sure the Allot
ServiceProtector can detect a DDoS and drop packets after it is determined
they are malicious, but it can't prevent the packets are delivered to the

(Continue reading)