John M Camara | 4 Nov 13:55 2006
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Re: Next Trac (0.10.1 or 0.11) with Genshi as only new feature


Christian Boos wrote:
> Now, we just asked everybody to switch to 0.10 a few weeks ago, and a
> lot are still using 0.9.x. The major motivation for upgrade here is
> probably the SpamFilter and possibly the enhancements to the version
> control subsystem (?).
> I can imagine it would be hard to sell the upgrade 0.11 for the sake of
> "internal" changes.  Our users have a (hopefully!) working version and
> they probably don't want to upgrade /just/ for having a new template
> engine. What a lot of people would like to have in the next version are
> some major new features like the new WorkFlow enhancement, so I think
> that we should have at least that one in the list of "user visible changes".
>
> -- Christian

Once setuptools is integrated it would be a good time to release 0.11
as this would likely get more users to upgrade as setuptools reduces
some of the burden of upgrading.  It also makes it much easier for new
users to start using Trac.

John

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Alec Thomas | 5 Nov 10:42 2006

Re: Next Trac (0.10.1 or 0.11) with Genshi as only new feature


On Sat, Nov 04, 2006 at 04:55:04AM -0800, John M Camara wrote:
> Once setuptools is integrated it would be a good time to release 0.11
> as this would likely get more users to upgrade as setuptools reduces
> some of the burden of upgrading.  It also makes it much easier for new
> users to start using Trac.

This is debatable IMO. setuptools is great, but its dependency tracking
only seems to work if everything is installed with setuptools. Unless
I'm wrong and am just missing something?

I'm expecting lots of support mails/tickets in the form "Plugin XXX says
it needs package YYY, but I've already installed it with apt-get YYY.
What gives?"

It won't be obvious to new users that they need to install packages
using easy_install.

--

-- 
Evolution: Taking care of those too stupid to take care of themselves.

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John M Camara | 5 Nov 13:44 2006
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Re: Next Trac (0.10.1 or 0.11) with Genshi as only new feature


Alec Thomas wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 04, 2006 at 04:55:04AM -0800, John M Camara wrote:
> > Once setuptools is integrated it would be a good time to release 0.11
> > as this would likely get more users to upgrade as setuptools reduces
> > some of the burden of upgrading.  It also makes it much easier for new
> > users to start using Trac.
>
> This is debatable IMO. setuptools is great, but its dependency tracking
> only seems to work if everything is installed with setuptools. Unless
> I'm wrong and am just missing something?
>

Well the last time I installed Trac was about 6 months ago (1st about a
year ago) and it was on Windows.  Now if you never installed Trac on
Windows take a look at http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracOnWindows to
see the set of instructions.  It's huge and IMO would send all, but
those you already know how good Trac is, running away.  Now I realize
that most people who use Trac are on Linux so I just took a look at the
instructions for different Linux distributions and most of them are
quite small.

So if you are running on Linux you will not see the benefits as you
already have a fairly easy way to install Trac.  I did notice that some
work has been done to simplify the installation on Windows but I still
feel that using setuptools for the install would be good for everyone
involved.  Even if for Linux distros it only makes it easier to keep
them up to date.

TurboGears is an application that has been built similar to Trac (made
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Alec Thomas | 6 Nov 01:41 2006

Re: Next Trac (0.10.1 or 0.11) with Genshi as only new feature


On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 04:44:44AM -0800, John M Camara wrote:
> TurboGears is an application that has been built similar to Trac (made
> from many pieces).  It would not have had the success it has today if
> they didn't recognized they needed a better way to handle
> installations.  They too are mostly Linux users and I don't hear anyone
> complaining of the use of setuptools or at least the choice of using
> it.

TurboGears and Trac have different target audiences. TG is aimed at
*Python* developers who presumably know how to identify and debug
problems of this type. Trac on the other hand, targets developers from a
very wide range of backgrounds, some of whom have very little Linux or
Python knowledge.

> It would be obvious from the TracGuide wiki pages.

You'd think that, but as many questions to the users ML, IRC and tickets
will attest, people often don't read the documentation, or even the FAQ.

Still, that being said, setuptools is way better than nothing, and it's
not like we have a choice.

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Gmane