Developer mailing list for the Trac Project

Ilias Lazaridis | 4 Dec 2006 02:57

[Trac-dev] POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


mgood has removed an addition to the TracTicketTriage completely, with
the comment:

"editing descriptions is limited to administrators and we're capable of
making that judgement on our own"

http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=29

-

My change relates to the following ticket:

"
I've noticed that ticket descriptions are changed.

Ticket descriptions are "original content", that should not be changed.
That's way comments are fore. Only the original author should change
his own wording.

If the team decides to not protect "original content", then it should
be possible to track the changes, thus anyone can verify who's written
what.

see #4297 for an example

(this should be clarified within the relevant project documentation)
"
http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4299

(Continue reading)

Ilias Lazaridis | 4 Dec 2006 08:45

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
> mgood has removed an addition to the TracTicketTriage completely, with
> the comment:
>
> "editing descriptions is limited to administrators and we're capable of
> making that judgement on our own"
>
> http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=29

I've just noticed that an alternative passage was added:

http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=30

http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4299#comment:8

Thank's a lot for the quick reaction and my apologies if I sounded
harsh (but I'm very sensitive in issues subject "rights" and "original
content").

Once again, thank's a lot!

.

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(Continue reading)

Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai | 4 Dec 2006 07:33

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"

-On [20061204 02:58], Ilias Lazaridis (ilias <at> lazaridis.com) wrote:
>I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.

You have shown in the past that you do not even honour the team's opinion and
answers, so I wonder what it should matter at this point all of a sudden. 

>Until then, you should refrain from altering any ticket descriptions,
>which is a *very* serious issue.

The team's service, their right to use and alter. I doubt you'll find that
intellectual property applies. And even then, it's a mix of different
countries, what might be illegal to do for one person due to his country's
laws might be totally ok for another.

>As for my personal ticket descriptions and comments:
>
>I do *not* give to anyone the permission to alter the descriptions
>within the tickets I've filed (my 'original content').

Given the fact you already asked one project to back out all your previous
patches I am personally very cautious touching anything that bears your name.
You are starting to show the exact same behaviour. You come preaching about
open source and saying you want to help out, but in the end you're just ending
up as a major disruption in any open source project I've seen your name appear
in.

--

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org> / asmodai
イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン

(Continue reading)

Ilias Lazaridis | 4 Dec 2006 08:33

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"

Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai wrote:
> -On [20061204 02:58], Ilias Lazaridis (ilias <at> lazaridis.com) wrote:
> >I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.
>
> You have shown in the past that you do not even honour the team's opinion and
> answers, so I wonder what it should matter at this point all of a sudden.

The policy does not subject me alone.

It is of general validity.

> >Until then, you should refrain from altering any ticket descriptions,
> >which is a *very* serious issue.
>
> The team's service, their right to use and alter. I doubt you'll find that
> intellectual property applies. And even then, it's a mix of different
> countries, what might be illegal to do for one person due to his country's
> laws might be totally ok for another.

You are wrong.

My (and any other writings) are protected by international law (to
which most countries comply).

But: leaving "original content" of persons intact (or at least provide
visible change-logs) is a matter of courtesy and ethically clean
behaviour.

An *this* is the point in this topic.

(Continue reading)

Erik Huelsmann | 4 Dec 2006 10:02

Picon

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


On 12/4/06, Ilias Lazaridis <ilias <at> lazaridis.com> wrote:
>
> Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai wrote:
> > -On [20061204 02:58], Ilias Lazaridis (ilias <at> lazaridis.com) wrote:
> > >I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.
> >
> > You have shown in the past that you do not even honour the team's opinion and
> > answers, so I wonder what it should matter at this point all of a sudden.
>
> The policy does not subject me alone.

That's right, but you're the only one bothered by it. Please stop
these 'you should do <something>' mails. We/they don't.

bye,

Erik.

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Ilias Lazaridis | 12 Dec 2006 13:56

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


Ο/Η Erik Huelsmann έγραψε:
> On 12/4/06, Ilias Lazaridis <ilias <at> lazaridis.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai wrote:
> > > -On [20061204 02:58], Ilias Lazaridis (ilias <at> lazaridis.com) wrote:
> > > >I ask the team to provide a policy for this topic.
> > >
> > > You have shown in the past that you do not even honour the team's opinion and
> > > answers, so I wonder what it should matter at this point all of a sudden.
> >
> > The policy does not subject me alone.
>
> That's right, but you're the only one bothered by it.

...which is enouth to require an action.

> Please stop these 'you should do <something>' mails. We/they don't.

As you've seen, 'they' had reacted in this case:

http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=30

why? - Because they had to react.

-

They had reacted in many other cases, too (although some times
'silently').

(Continue reading)

Brad Anderson | 4 Dec 2006 04:30

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
> mgood has removed an addition to the TracTicketTriage completely, with
> the comment:
> 
> "editing descriptions is limited to administrators and we're capable of
> making that judgement on our own"
> 
> http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracTicketTriage?action=diff&version=29
> 
> -
> 
> My change relates to the following ticket:
> 
> "
> I've noticed that ticket descriptions are changed.
> 
> Ticket descriptions are "original content", that should not be changed.
> That's way comments are fore. Only the original author should change
> his own wording.
> 
> If the team decides to not protect "original content", then it should
> be possible to track the changes, thus anyone can verify who's written
> what.
> 
> see #4297 for an example
> 
> (this should be clarified within the relevant project documentation)
> "
> http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4299

(Continue reading)

Ilias Lazaridis | 4 Dec 2006 04:48

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"

Brad Anderson wrote:
...
> Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
> things done to your satisfaction?  Isn't that time here now?

not exactly, I just said that I'll work 3 months intensive on track:

RFC - Simplify multiple installations with shared environments
http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/5a29018a024244a7

Due to the missing cooperation of the team (which has oviously a main
goal to delay the 0.11 release even more than the 0.10 release), I need
to work more autonomously, thus I'll not fulfill everything within 3
months.

But whatever happens, the 'base' project will go 'live' on 2007-01-01,
and it's main component will be trac 0.11dev.

http://dev.lazaridis.com/base

> BA
>
> [1] I have no link to back this up.  Merely wishful thinking.
>
> http://dev.lazaridis.com/base/getthefuckoutofhere

People like you make companies taking open source not that serious as
the could, keeping commercial interest and thus development resources
out of the projects.

(Continue reading)

Brad Anderson | 4 Dec 2006 04:59

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
> Brad Anderson wrote:
> ...
>> Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
>> things done to your satisfaction?  Isn't that time here now?
> 
> not exactly, I just said that I'll work 3 months intensive on track:
> 
> RFC - Simplify multiple installations with shared environments
> http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/5a29018a024244a7
> 
> Due to the missing cooperation of the team (which has oviously a main
> goal to delay the 0.11 release even more than the 0.10 release), I need
> to work more autonomously, thus I'll not fulfill everything within 3
> months.
> 
> But whatever happens, the 'base' project will go 'live' on 2007-01-01,
> and it's main component will be trac 0.11dev.

Can't wait for that.

>> http://dev.lazaridis.com/base/getthefuckoutofhere
> 
> People like you make companies taking open source not that serious as
> the could, keeping commercial interest and thus development resources
> out of the projects.

Interesting.  So I'm a FOSS hater.  Weird, because my company wouldn't be
where it is without FOSS.  We are avid users.  In addition, I might dare say

(Continue reading)

Manuzhai | 4 Dec 2006 11:34

Picon

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


On 12/4/06, Brad Anderson <brad <at> dsource.org> wrote:
> Can't wait for that.

Can Mr. Lazaridis just be banned, from mailing list and t.e.o? He's
undermining progress of the Trac project.

http://producingoss.com/html-chunk/difficult-people.html

Regards,

Manuzhai

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Ilias Lazaridis | 12 Dec 2006 12:45

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


Ο/Η Manuzhai έγραψε:
> On 12/4/06, Brad Anderson <brad <at> dsource.org> wrote:
> > Can't wait for that.
>
> Can Mr. Lazaridis just be banned, from mailing list and t.e.o?

of course.

 * Provide the relavant policies within the project.
 * Accuse me for violation of policies
 * Proove those violations
 * Say good by

> He's undermining progress of the Trac project.
>
> http://producingoss.com/html-chunk/difficult-people.html

Nice try!

.

--
http://dev.lazaridis.com/base

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(Continue reading)

Ilias Lazaridis | 4 Dec 2006 08:10

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


Brad Anderson wrote:
> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
> > Brad Anderson wrote:
> > ...
> >> Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
> >> things done to your satisfaction?  Isn't that time here now?
> >
> > not exactly, I just said that I'll work 3 months intensive on track:
> >
> > RFC - Simplify multiple installations with shared environments
> > http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/5a29018a024244a7
> >
> > Due to the missing cooperation of the team (which has oviously a main
> > goal to delay the 0.11 release even more than the 0.10 release), I need
> > to work more autonomously, thus I'll not fulfill everything within 3
> > months.
> >
> > But whatever happens, the 'base' project will go 'live' on 2007-01-01,
> > and it's main component will be trac 0.11dev.
>
> Can't wait for that.
>
> >> http://dev.lazaridis.com/base/getthefuckoutofhere
> >
> > People like you make companies taking open source not that serious as
> > the could, keeping commercial interest and thus development resources
> > out of the projects.
>
> Interesting.  So I'm a FOSS hater.  Weird, because my company wouldn't be

(Continue reading)

Ilias Lazaridis | 4 Dec 2006 04:52

[Trac-dev] Re: POLICY - Ticket Descriptions should be treated as "original content"


Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
> Brad Anderson wrote:
> ...
> > Dude, didn't you promise to leave in like three months [1] if you couldn't get
> > things done to your satisfaction?  Isn't that time here now?
>
> not exactly, I just said that I'll work 3 months intensive on track:
>
> RFC - Simplify multiple installations with shared environments
> http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/5a29018a024244a7

correct link:
http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/3cc829e38cc6047b

.

--
http://case.lazaridis.com/wiki/CoreLiveEval

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