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Benjamin Nowack | 3 Feb 2009 13:57
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Re: [foaf-dev] foaf:accountAccesspage


I think I saw foaf-exporting sites use the profile pages as 
direct identifiers for accounts, e.g.

<foaf:OnlineAccount rdf:about="http://twitter.com/lespacedunmatin">
...

and IIRC, DanBri was suggesting (or questioning?) this approach
here and there recently.

I'm using this in my apps, too (deliberately ignoring the 
"can a URL denote a FOAF account?" metaphysics ;).

Best,
Benji

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Benjamin Nowack
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http://semsol.com/

On 03.02.2009 12:34:30, Olivier GENDRIN wrote:
>Hi list !
>
>Looking at Danny RDF version of the semwab twitter pack [1], I think
>that we may need a foaf:accountAccesspage in foaf:OnlineAccount, in
>order not to have to guess the account page URL just with
>foaf:accountServiceHomepage and foaf:accountName
>
>Because :
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Dan Brickley | 3 Feb 2009 14:06

Re: [foaf-dev] foaf:accountAccesspage

On 3/2/09 13:57, Benjamin Nowack wrote:
> I think I saw foaf-exporting sites use the profile pages as
> direct identifiers for accounts, e.g.
>
> <foaf:OnlineAccount rdf:about="http://twitter.com/lespacedunmatin">
> ...
>
> and IIRC, DanBri was suggesting (or questioning?) this approach
> here and there recently.
>
> I'm using this in my apps, too (deliberately ignoring the
> "can a URL denote a FOAF account?" metaphysics ;).

Yes. I am a bad person for not writing up a clear proposal for this.

FWIW I believe some use of sioc:User is also in this direction. And it 
is close to the deployment style of XFN and Google SGAPI.

Metaphysics aside, if we think of OnlineAccount as a kind of (informally 
speaking) semi-annotational "role" class, one that many kinds of thing 
can play, then I think it can work. Needs test cases at least though, 
very easy too get confused here. Just as many many kinds of thing are 
Buyable, and have prices, vendors etc., many many kinds of thing can be 
Log-in-able, ... and have usernames, service providers etc. The class 
OnlineAccount is a name for that class of thing. So ... what would a 
xyz:creation_date of http://some-online-account.example.com/ be? Well 
I'm not 100% sure. But note that we already have this problem with 
normal Web pages, due to content and language negotiation. It is often 
noted in SW circles, but rarely disasterous in practice...
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KANZAKI Masahide | 3 Feb 2009 15:56
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Re: [foaf-dev] foaf:accountAccesspage

+1 to use twitter page URI as OnlineAccount rdf:about.

btw, Hillary Clinton's embedded (commented) FOAF uses
<foaf:OnlineAccount rdf:about="http://www.twitter.com/hillaryclinton" />

see http://congressspacebook.com/profiles/Hillary_Clinton

;-)
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Dave Brondsema | 4 Feb 2009 22:40
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Re: [foaf-dev] foaf:accountAccesspage

-1 to use a URL document like a twitter page, in rdf:about.  See
http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-cooluris-20071217/#distinguishing and
http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/#howname

Why don't you just use the existing foaf:page property like this? (This
example is in turtle format)

<http://brondsema.net/dave#> foaf:holdsAccount [ a foaf:OnlineAccount ;
    foaf:accountServiceHomepage <http://geocaching.com/> ;
    foaf:accountName "brondsem" ;
    foaf:page
<http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=0e5d6fdc-ed15-4520-acf2-36e93ca30cd3>
;
].

KANZAKI Masahide wrote:
> +1 to use twitter page URI as OnlineAccount rdf:about.
> 
> btw, Hillary Clinton's embedded (commented) FOAF uses
> <foaf:OnlineAccount rdf:about="http://www.twitter.com/hillaryclinton" />
> 
> see http://congressspacebook.com/profiles/Hillary_Clinton
> 
> ;-)

--

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http://www.splike.com : programming
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Simon Reinhardt | 4 Feb 2009 23:38
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Re: [foaf-dev] foaf:accountAccesspage

Dave Brondsema wrote:
> -1 to use a URL document like a twitter page, in rdf:about.  See
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-cooluris-20071217/#distinguishing and
> http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/#howname

I agree, I think we're past the document vs. thing discussion now and have agreed that they should be separated.
Can all of an account's essential characteristics be conveyed in a message? I don't think so. -> No
information resource.
Besides, a profile is just *one* possible page about an account. There might be other pages describing
other parts of it, like a preferences page.

> Why don't you just use the existing foaf:page property like this? (This
> example is in turtle format)

The issue is actually documented in the FOAF wiki ([1] where foaf:accountHomepage is proposed) and has
been discussed in various places: [2], [3]. I thought there had been a more recent discussion on here which
I replied to but I can't seem to find that.
Anyway, foaf:accountProfilePage seems to be what many people use (including Henry Story: [4]). I still
disagree with that because in my eyes foaf:isPrimaryTopicOf [5] captures exactly what is needed here. So
if you really have to use yet another property just because it's used in a context where
foaf:isPrimaryTopicOf hasn't been used before (but is perfectly valid for), then go ahead, but at least
make it a sub-property of foaf:isPrimaryTopicOf. In my eyes it's an unnecessary duplication of
properties. More re-use! Makes data integration easier! :-)
foaf:homepage [6] seems to be too specific because a profile page is not really a homepage. And foaf:page is
too generic and doesn't have the nice feature of being an IFP.

Regards,
  Simon

[1] http://wiki.foaf-project.org/OnlineAccountHomepageIssue
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KANZAKI Masahide | 5 Feb 2009 02:45
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Re: [foaf-dev] foaf:accountAccesspage

Hi, maybe it's a metaphysics, but...

2009/2/5 Simon Reinhardt <simon.reinhardt@...>:
> Can all of an account's essential characteristics be conveyed in a message? I don't think so. -> No
information resource.

I guess all activities (or characteristics) of an account can be
conveyed via messages, by definition, because it's an "online"
account. A page is a representation of the resource "state", e.g.
recent posts, user profile etc.

> Besides, a profile is just *one* possible page about an account. There might be other pages describing
other parts of it, like a preferences page.

agreed that this is arguable. IMHO, twitter's user page can be
regarded to represent the current status of the account (recent posts,
follows, user description with an avatar image).

(I used to think that we needed foaf:accountProfilePage, but by
re-reading WebArch several times for some necessities, I become to
believe an OnlineAccount is an information resource)

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