gmane.comp.windows.shells.litestep

GS and Rant

Tobbe sent me this, I felt I should reply to the list:

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 06:42:56 +1300, Tobbe Lundberg <tobbesweden@...m>  
wrote:

> Hi
>
> How are you doing? Was a long time ago I last saw you in #litestep...
>
> What is the current status of GS? Is it ready for prime time yet? I'm
> interested in adding it to the next version of losi if it's usable
> together with ots2 (or at least ots2 themes, I don't mind moving a few
> things around in the folder structure I create with the installer if
> needed).
>
> //Tobbe

GS, Global Schemes, at the moment will not work under OTS2.

You see, GS enabled themes must tell the OTS that it uses GS,
then the OTS can load the required evars and modules for the theme to use.

The other option is to always load the evars and modules regardless of  
wether or not the theme will use them.

When I was developing GS I felt it obvious that OTS2 themes would need to  
be re-written (updated)
to use GS anyway, so during that process updating to OTS3 would not seem  
so difficult (the addition of a file with a few lines in it, 2mins work,  
2mins)

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Tobbe Lundberg | 3 Jan 09:50

Re: GS and Rant

> GS, Global Schemes, at the moment will not work under OTS2.

Is there anyway to modify OTS2 to support GS, but still be able to use
old OTS2 themes?

> I do not think GS is such a popular idea
> ...
> I tried to bring a new era of togetherness, a collective effort to evolve
> LS (any direction is better that down), but the themers have spoken (or
> rather NOT spoken).
> ...
> Honestly, anybody could have made GS work by now, but I don't think
> anybody cares :D

I'm sorry to say I feel the same way. But I still think GS is a good
idea, just look at the Blackbox/Fluxbox/bb4win community. It's active,
and colors and some settings are the only thing they have to play
with. No fancy images.

I was hoping that including GS in the installer would make more ppl
aware of its existence and hopefully make more themers use it.

//Tobbe

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fractal.design | 4 Jan 02:34

Re: GS and Rant

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:50:06 +1300, Tobbe Lundberg
<tobbesweden@...>  
wrote:

>> GS, Global Schemes, at the moment will not work under OTS2.
>
> Is there anyway to modify OTS2 to support GS, but still be able to use
> old OTS2 themes?

That would be OTS3.
Right now, OTS3 works with GS enabled themes, and OTS2 themes, and OTS3  
themes (which are not much different from OTS2)

Talk to THC4k, or go to ls-themes.org and check out the latest version.

>
> I was hoping that including GS in the installer would make more ppl
> aware of its existence and hopefully make more themers use it.
>
> //Tobbe

Yeah, well, I dunno if thats realistic. I mean:
1. GS has been out for a while, I wrote news about it on all the main ls  
sites, and little/no interest has been shown.
2. I get the same feeling about your installer, and OTS3.

I hate to be so negative, but I dunno what else to do.
LiteStep is dying, either few people care, or this is how LS has been  
forever and I am just getting used to it.

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chris | 15 Jan 20:36

Re: GS and Rant

fractal.design wrote:
> Tobbe Lundberg wrote:
>> I was hoping that including GS in the installer would make more ppl
>> aware of its existence and hopefully make more themers use it.
> 
> Yeah, well, I dunno if thats realistic. I mean:
> 1. GS has been out for a while, I wrote news about it on all the main ls 
> sites, and little/no interest has been shown.
> 2. I get the same feeling about your installer, and OTS3.

Where is the well documented and presented specification? Where is the 
tutorial?  Where is the support forums?  I ask that rhetorically.  OTS2 
was well wrapped and supported from the get-go with an installer to move 
it to the masses.  It isn't that people don't have interest in OTS3 or 
Litestep or that it isn't superior, it's simply that we aren't packaging 
it and getting it out there.

Compare:

http://ls-themes.org/index.php?cat=article&show=ots3

to

http://o-t-s.sourceforge.net/

Is it really a wonder why OTS2 took off, and OTS3 hasn't?

chris

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Jochen Ritzel | 16 Jan 15:38

Re: Re: GS and Rant

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:36:56 +0100, chris <jugg@...> wrote:

> fractal.design wrote:
>> Tobbe Lundberg wrote:
>>> I was hoping that including GS in the installer would make more ppl
>>> aware of its existence and hopefully make more themers use it.
>>  Yeah, well, I dunno if thats realistic. I mean:
>> 1. GS has been out for a while, I wrote news about it on all the main  
>> ls sites, and little/no interest has been shown.
>> 2. I get the same feeling about your installer, and OTS3.
>
> Where is the well documented and presented specification? Where is the  
> tutorial?  Where is the support forums?  I ask that rhetorically.  OTS2  
> was well wrapped and supported from the get-go with an installer to move  
> it to the masses.  It isn't that people don't have interest in OTS3 or  
> Litestep or that it isn't superior, it's simply that we aren't packaging  
> it and getting it out there.
>
> Compare:
>
> http://ls-themes.org/index.php?cat=article&show=ots3
>
> to
>
> http://o-t-s.sourceforge.net/
>
> Is it really a wonder why OTS2 took off, and OTS3 hasn't?
>
> chris
>

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fractal.design | 16 Jan 21:12

Re: Re: GS and Rant

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:38:44 +1300, Jochen Ritzel <THC_rulez@...> wrote:

> my ots3 is pretty much at a point where someone else will actually have  
> to *do* stuff ... and there lies the real problem ^^

Hehehehe.
--

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chris | 21 Jan 01:04

Re: GS and Rant

Jochen Ritzel wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:36:56 +0100, chris
>> Is it really a wonder why OTS2 took off, and OTS3 hasn't?
> 
> I write that stuff because i want it to work for myself.  Therefore i
> hardly care if anything takes off as long as it works for me. So, 
> while i'm willing to work on stuff that hardly interests me just for 
> the good of the community, my ots3 is pretty much at a point where 
> someone else will actually have to *do* stuff ... and there lies the 
> real problem ^^

Apologies if what I wrote was taken in the context of finger pointing, 
or any sort of criticism of what was done.  I meant it purely as a 
bird's eye view response to fractal's comments on wondering why no one 
was switching to OTS3.

OTS2 was a one man show, but the one man apparently had the motivation 
to make something for the masses.  Most of us (myself included) tend to 
do what works for us in hopes someone else finds it useful.  From what 
you wrote, that is where your "OTS3 Proposal" is at.  I understand that, 
and in no way criticize that position.

chris

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Phil Varcoe | 15 Jan 20:44

RE: Re: GS and Rant

Hi all

Forgive me if these points have already been raised.

I think that we also have to consider that the user base now compared to 5
years ago, is likely a fraction of what it once was.

That compounded with the fact that for the average themer (is there such a
thing any more) OTS3 and GS are more complicated than OTS2, which was about
as complicated as many themers could handle.

Add that to Chris' reasons and we have to recognize that any new standards
will have real challenges to broad adoption or acceptance.

Having said that, I really like the new installer.

Phar0e

-----Original Message-----
From: chris [mailto:jugg@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:37 PM
To: litestep@...
Subject: [Litestep] Re: GS and Rant

fractal.design wrote:
> Tobbe Lundberg wrote:
>> I was hoping that including GS in the installer would make more ppl
>> aware of its existence and hopefully make more themers use it.
> 
> Yeah, well, I dunno if thats realistic. I mean:

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Hale, Paul | 15 Jan 20:56

RE: Re: GS and Rant

> From: Phil Varcoe [mailto:pvarcoe@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:48 PM
> To: litestep@...
> Subject: RE: [Litestep] Re: GS and Rant
> 
> Hi all
snip
> I think that we also have to consider that the user base now compared
to 5
> years ago, is likely a fraction of what it once was.
> 
snip
> Phar0e

Let us not forget the people who are not using Windows anymore. There
comes a time when you just can't stand using MS anymore. Then there also
is the reduced control over your PC at work that will not allow you to
use LS. 

I think there were a few other people that moved to linux about the same
time same time I did. 

Paul

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fractal.design | 16 Jan 04:44

Re: Re: GS and Rant

To chris:

Its all here, and has been for ages:  
http://www.fractaldesignz.orcon.net.nz/Litestep/GS/GSDocs.htm

I think most of the links are broken (its old)
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