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marty scholes | 27 Mar 2002 14:51

Re: Re: Re: XFt on Solaris

Jim,

Many thanks for the direction here.  I found a "solaris" build of the library on xfree86.org, but it was an x86
build, not sparc.  I did get the sources to xfree86 4.1 and did a make world.  I then installed the library on
LD_LIBRARY_PATH, only to discover that I had libXrender.so.1.1, while openoffice wanted libXrender.so.1.

I soft linked libXrender.so.1 to libXrender.so.1.1 to see what would happen.  Openoffice quit
complaining but the text was still ugly and marginally readable.

I wonder if I have a version problem or am missing other libraries, or maybe openoffice shouldn't be placed
into a production environment just yet.  I think I'll back off of this until things mature some.  A pity
though, my users were looking forward to better M$ filters.

Thanx again,
Marty

________________ Reply Header ________________
Subject:	Re: [Render] Re: XFt on Solaris
Author:	Jim Gettys <Jim.Gettys <at> compaq.com>
Date:		 Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:44:24 -0700

Yes, Xft is a client library, that uses the Xrender extension
available on your Linux machines.  You should have no particular
problems building either on Solaris for use across your network
from your Solaris system.  Just build XFree86 on Solaris, and you'll
get the client side support you need.

Xft2, which Keith will be releasing sometime soon, is also be able
to run against unmodified X servers that lack the render extension
(at lower performance, as it has to push the pixels  back and forth
(Continue reading)

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Marty Scholes | 25 Mar 2002 20:45

Re: XFt on Solaris

I have a comment/question on this old topic.  Please forgive me if it
has been previously covered; I could not find it in the archives.

We run a Sun (Solaris 7 with a pending Solaris 8 upgrade) with no
display and Linux boxes on everyone's desk as an X terminal.  All of the
X clients run on the Sun.

The other day I went to install openoffice on the Sun and it grumped
about missing libXrender.so and the fonts (an ugly fallback?) looked
awful.

Our Linux boxes are RENDER-ready, but despite searching high and low, I
cannot find the missing library for Solaris in a binary format.

Here's what I think is going on.  I think that the libXrender library is
a client-side library.  I also think that few (no) shops are trying to
run render in a mixed platform environment.  Most people run the client
and server both under Linux and all is well.  I am not blessed with that
situation.

I think I found the sources at Xfree86 and will attempt to compile them
and install the library on the Sun box and hopefully openoffice will run
ok.

Will this work?  Are there any other problems I will run into?

Thanx in advance.

Sincerely,
Marty
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Jim Gettys | 26 Mar 2002 02:44
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Re: Re: XFt on Solaris

Yes, Xft is a client library, that uses the Xrender extension
available on your Linux machines.  You should have no particular
problems building either on Solaris for use across your network
from your Solaris system.  Just build XFree86 on Solaris, and you'll
get the client side support you need.

Xft2, which Keith will be releasing sometime soon, is also be able
to run against unmodified X servers that lack the render extension
(at lower performance, as it has to push the pixels  back and forth
to do so).
--
Jim Gettys
Cambridge Research Laboratory
Compaq Computer Corporation
jg <at> pa.dec.com

> Sender: owner-render <at> XFree86.Org
> From: Marty Scholes <marty <at> outputservices.com>
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:45:54 -0700
> To: render <at> XFree86.Org
> Subject: [Render] Re: XFt on Solaris
> -----
> I have a comment/question on this old topic.  Please forgive me if it
> has been previously covered; I could not find it in the archives.
> 
> We run a Sun (Solaris 7 with a pending Solaris 8 upgrade) with no
> display and Linux boxes on everyone's desk as an X terminal.  All of the
> X clients run on the Sun.
> 
> The other day I went to install openoffice on the Sun and it grumped
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Jim Gettys | 27 Mar 2002 15:57
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Re: Re: XFt on Solaris

Uglyness of the fonts has nothing to do with how they are rendered...

You have two/three items left to get good rendering:

1) installing high quality fonts.  The TrueType Web fonts that Microsoft
distributes qualify there...  You'll need to configure your font
stuff to use them, and make sure OpenOffice is using the TrueType fonts.

2)  by default, Freetype (which does the font rendering) is often built 
without using the hint information in the font, due to a patent Apple 
holds (in the U.S.).  I get different reads on how valid that patent is. 
You need to ensure that the Freetype being used is built to use the hints.

I don't know if OpenOffice uses Freetype or not, or if it does, if Freetype
is built with hinting turned on.

3) to get the last mile, you need to configure Xft to use subpixel decimation
(for best results on flat panels; this isn't visible on monitors).

When I've run Open Office, (recent build), it looked like it may have 
been using a private copy of Freetype, Xft, or doing its own text rendering 
(not using the system version of Freetype, and I can't get it to perform 
subpixel decimation.  I haven't had time to investigate further.  So the 
quality I get (on Linux anyway), is good, but not as good as things that 
do "the whole banana".

			- Jim

> Sender: owner-render <at> XFree86.Org
> From: marty scholes <marty <at> outputservices.com>
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Juliusz Chroboczek | 18 Apr 2002 18:48
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Re: Re: XFt on Solaris

JG> 1) installing high quality fonts.  The TrueType Web fonts that
JG> Microsoft distributes qualify there...

Just to be pedantic: the Monotype fonts distributed by Microsoft have
excellent hinting, which is what Jim was speaking about.  This
assessment has nothing to do with their typographical quality, which
many find mediocre (especially for non-ASCII glyphs).

                                        Juliusz
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Torgeir Veimo | 18 Apr 2002 18:31
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Re: Re: XFt on Solaris

Jim Gettys wrote:

> 3) to get the last mile, you need to configure Xft to use subpixel decimation
> (for best results on flat panels; this isn't visible on monitors).
> 
> When I've run Open Office, (recent build), it looked like it may have 
> been using a private copy of Freetype, Xft, or doing its own text rendering 
> (not using the system version of Freetype, and I can't get it to perform 
> subpixel decimation. 

Jim, do you have some info on how mozilla does rendering currently? I've 
been unable to enable subpixel decimation with antialiased fonts under 
linux with mozilla.

--

-- 
-Torgeir
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Jim Gettys | 18 Apr 2002 19:24
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Re: Re: XFt on Solaris

Mozilla .9.9 OOB doesn't use Render, and is lame...

Chris Blizzard has a good version that does use Xft.  See:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/experimental/xft/Red_Hat_7x_RPMS/0.9.9/RPMS/i386/

Several caveats:
1) you want a version of freetype that does truetype hinting...
2) you have to define the subpixel order in the Xft config files.

Once that is done, you get georgeous results.

See: http://zap.crl.dec.com.
				- Jim

--
Jim Gettys
Cambridge Research Laboratory
Compaq Computer Corporation
jg <at> pa.dec.com
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Keith Packard | 18 Apr 2002 19:47
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Re: Re: XFt on Solaris


Around 18 o'clock on Apr 18, Torgeir Veimo wrote:

> Jim, do you have some info on how mozilla does rendering currently? I've 
> been unable to enable subpixel decimation with antialiased fonts under 
> linux with mozilla.

The "official" mozilla bits don't use Xft or the Render extension, nor do 
they support subpixel decimation.  Chris Blizzard occasionally builds
a version of Mozilla that does use Xft:

	ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/experimental/xft/

This doesn't use XftConfig as it's based on Xft2 -- it installs a private 
fonts.conf file (which you can link to the regular /etc/fonts/fonts.conf 
file).

Keith Packard        XFree86 Core Team        Compaq Cambridge Research Lab
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