--- In BackpackingLight-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org, Segraves <andrews9000 <at> ...> wrote:
>
> This doesn't match my experience (at least not at a level at which I could detect any nasties) or my modest understanding of the relevant chemistry. Can you provide any additional info about source of this or relevant experience?

It's not a matter of chemistry, it's a matter of the physical properties of the bottles. PET bottles are created by press-forming the two halves then seam-welding the two halves together. The forms are quite smooth but they are metal, and metal has crystallization properties that mean they're never *perfectly* smooth. The end result is tiny nooks and crannies that can hold some of the contents after you drain and rinse it, which you can tell the first time you re-use it if your sense of taste is good because the water tastes very slightly of the former contents.

Whether that is enough to allow nasties to grow... well. There's been some scientific studies on the subject and under certain circumstances, the answer is yes. But if the bottle has never held anything but water, like this "Arrowhead Mountain Spring Water" bottle on my desk that I've refilled from time to time from the tap but never had anything other than water in it, there's no question about whether those tiny little pores are a breeding place for nasties -- there's no "there" there.

Have I ever had a bottle grow green stuff? Well, no, but I had that happen to a hydration bladder once :). Ick!

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For what it's worth, I have never found it necessary to do anything more than give a good rinsing to a PET bottle that's previously held apple juice or grape juice. Even when I find a left-over bottle of water that's sat in my car for a few months after a trip, it's fresh and mold-free. Sugars are pretty easily removed from plastic surfaces by water alone. Proteins are not.

Cheers,

Bill

--- On Wed, 6/6/12, Cara Lin Bridgman <cara.lin-U+YyfaGa+JSWBW7kxKT9UA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I solve this problem with chlorine
> bleach.  Considering how
> environmentally destructive it is to produce chlorine, I
> probably use
> way too much.  About a teaspoon of bleach in a 600 ml
> water bottle
> filled full and capped.  I let it sit for a day or so,
> rolling the
> bottle every now and then because I can never get all the
> air-bubbles
> out.  I've been cycling through 6 water bottles for the
> past >6 years
> because I use them several times each day.  I've used
> the same caps for
> as long as 10 years.  When it begins to look like
> there's mold in
> there,  I bleach them.
>
> After a bleaching and a good rinsing (I dislike the flavor
> of bleach),
> the bottles will hold water almost indefinitely without a
> problem.  It's
> the sugar that really encourages that mold.  So, I take
> fresh-cleaned
> bottles when hiking.  If the trip is going to be longer
> than about 5
> days, I only put water in there.

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Nooks and crannies? Not enough to worry about for me. This is hilarious to me. Sort of like ignoring whatever else I happen to ingest while breathing, all those mold spores, bug dung, pollen from poisonous plants, and so on. There are a lot of opportunity for bugs in me. My body has an immune system that works. I am betting yours does too.

I have put water in my bottles for many years. I have dropped them, they do NOT break. I did manage to pop the top off one time.

Some of the older two liter bottles I keep are a couple years old. I would drink it if the water mains break again. (That happens about once per year.) Not to worry, water does NOT support bug growth...there simply isn't enough food for them. I think I know enough about microbiology to figure that one out. Mold? It has never happened in a water bottle and won't. IFF this is tried with koolaid or some other flavouring, possibly. But, generally water does not support bug growth.

BPA's? Well as Eric was saying, most plastics do not have it, only a few. PET does not.

I also use them for fuel, but I always test these. Various additives can affect the caps quicker than the bottle, so this is where I look. Seals from Pepsi bottles get a bit wrinkled after exposure to fuel, for example. The shape, like a soda, is not good. Gentle heating of the bottom, with a half inch of soda in the bottle will round out the bottom preventing setting it down open or grabbing it in error at night.

Bottles are blow molded, not welded. Any seam you see is from the form. A single bubble is placed in a two part form and expanded by air pressure.

Many plastics can be burned safely. Only chlorinated or fluorinated plastics are bad to burn (dioxin.) PET bottles for instance can be burned, or, milk bottles...depends on the plastic.

A good wood/charcoal fire can reach 1800-2000F, easily reaching the combustion temp needed for aluminum, or welding iron. How you build a good fire is a different subject. Throwing wood into a pile and lighting it is NOT hot enough except in places. Pick out your scraps when you extinguish the fire, therefore. Kindling temp for aluminum is about 1500F, btw, just looked it up. Aluminum burns to aluminum oxide, a naturally occurring mineral all over the planet. It is NOT a pollutant.
My thoughts only . . .
jdm
James D. Marco
302 Mary Lane
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-273-9132 (land), 607-220-9969(cell)

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--- In BackpackingLight-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org, Mark Liechty <news <at> ...> wrote:
> The knockoff plastic water bottles from whatever cheap source you get (wal-mart, costo, swag from tradeshows) are good for in town stuff but they just seem to crack and break more on the trail.

???

I've never had a plastic "disposable" water bottle (the PET kind that comes with water or soda in it from a grocery store) crack or break on the trail. They are ridiculously durable. I've even carried white gas in a plastic Coke bottle for my SVEA, no problem, didn't leak a drop, weighed under 1 ounce as compared to 5 ounces for a purpose-made aluminum bottle that held the same amount of fuel. (The plastic water bottles are just as durable, I used a soda bottle because it was a totally different shape from my water bottles and thus impossible for me to accidentally take a swig of white gas out of it if grabbing a bottle by feel).

These PET bottles are ridiculously durable considering that you can get'em for 50 cents apiece at any grocery store in the country (or $1.50 if at some convenience store or quick-mart type place). Their only real downside is that they *are* UV-sensitive, so I usually end up recycling them after several months of use once they start getting cloudy. Big effin' deal...

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