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Philip Hardy | 3 Aug 2012 06:53
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יהוה vs הבעל

Hello.
 My Name is Philip A. Hardy. I have noticed that in most instance in the King James Bible where The word BAAL is
or any english word(s) that derived from the same Hebrew word that BAAL derived from, namley בעל, the
original Hebrew almost always has "הבעל". This I believe is best conveyed or rendered in Enlish as
"the owner", "the husband", "the master", or "the lord". Now where is found היהוה only once and
possibly could be be tranlated "he the life", conversley is found הבעל thirty eight times. Now if
הבעל can be translated "the lord" and the name "יהוה" is not transliterated as is "בעל" but is
(mis)translated as "The Lord" and Certain persons choose not to "proclaim the name" or "Publish the name"
as the word says we should, then could it be that This is a fulfillment of the prophecy found in JER 23:26-27
"Jer 23:26 How long shall [this] be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, [they are]
prophets of the deceit of their own heart;Jer 23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their
dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
wherein BAAL is really הבעל "The Lord" or "...as their fathers have forgotten my name for "The Lord"."

Any insight, conveyed musings, or constructive criticisms would be welcome.

 Good Day
 Philip Hardy
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Pere Porta | 3 Aug 2012 07:37
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Re: יהוה vs הבעל

Remark, Philip, that היהוה, hyhwh, in Jr 8:19 is by no means "he the life".
The first letter heh is an interrogative particle, not article!

Pere Porta
(Barcelona, Catalonia, Northeastern Spain)

2012/8/3 Philip Hardy <technologist1 <at> gmx.us>

> Hello.
>  My Name is Philip A. Hardy. I have noticed that in most instance in the
> King James Bible where The word BAAL is or any english word(s) that derived
> from the same Hebrew word that BAAL derived from, namley בעל, the original
> Hebrew almost always has "הבעל". This I believe is best conveyed or
> rendered in Enlish as "the owner", "the husband", "the master", or "the
> lord". Now where is found היהוה only once and possibly could be be
> tranlated "he the life", conversley is found הבעל thirty eight times. Now
> if הבעל can be translated "the lord" and the name "יהוה" is not
> transliterated as is "בעל" but is (mis)translated as "The Lord" and Certain
> persons choose not to "proclaim the name" or "Publish the name" as the word
> says we should, then could it be that This is a fulfillment of the prophecy
> found in JER 23:26-27 "Jer 23:26 How long shall [this] be in the heart of
> the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, [they are] prophets of the deceit of
> their own heart;Jer 23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name
> by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their
> fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. wherein BAAL is really הבעל "The
> Lord" or "...as their fathers have forgotten my name for "The Lord"."
>
> Any insight, conveyed musings, or constructive criticisms would be welcome.
>
>  Good Day
(Continue reading)

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George Athas | 3 Aug 2012 07:23
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Re: יהוה vs הבעל

Philip,

The fulfilment of biblical prophecy and critique of people's beliefs/practices is not open for
discussion on B-Hebrew. On this forum, we want to keep discussion focused on the language and literature
of the Hebrew Bible in its ancient context. Religious beliefs/practices of those outside the literature
is not an appropriate subject for discussion here. You may find other forums where this would be a
permitted topic of conversation.


GEORGE ATHAS
Co-Moderator, B-Hebrew
Sydney, Australia

From: Philip Hardy <technologist1 <at> gmx.us<mailto:technologist1 <at> gmx.us>>
Date: Friday, 3 August 2012 2:53 PM
To: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew <at> lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:b-hebrew <at> lists.ibiblio.org>>
Subject: [b-hebrew] יהוה vs הבעל

Hello.
My Name is Philip A. Hardy. I have noticed that in most instance in the King James Bible where The word BAAL is
or any english word(s) that derived from the same Hebrew word that BAAL derived from, namley בעל, the
original Hebrew almost always has "הבעל". This I believe is best conveyed or rendered in Enlish as
"the owner", "the husband", "the master", or "the lord". Now where is found היהוה only once and
possibly could be be tranlated "he the life", conversley is found הבעל thirty eight times. Now if
הבעל can be translated "the lord" and the name "יהוה" is not transliterated as is "בעל" but is
(mis)translated as "The Lord" and Certain persons choose not to "proclaim the name" or "Publish the name"
as the word says we should, then could it be that This is a fulfillment of the prophecy found in JER 23:26-27
"Jer 23:26 How long shall [this] be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, [they are]
prophets of the deceit of their own heart;Jer 23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their
dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.
(Continue reading)

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Yigal Levin | 3 Aug 2012 11:12
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Re: יהוה vs הבעל

Dear Philip,

You are partially correct. As a common noun, "baal" simply means "lord", "master", "owner", "possessor",
and the like, and in the patriarchal society of the biblical world, also "husband". It is used as a common
noun dozens of times in the Bible. It is not really the name of any deity, but rather an epithet of the
Northwestern Semitic storm-god, often know by the name of Hadad (also Haddu, Adad and the like). "Baal"
was also used as a title for other deities with similar properties. In the Bible, it is sometimes used in the
construct, such as Baal-peor, Baal-gad, Baal-hermon etc., usually assumed to be local manifestations
of the deity, and sometimes becoming place-names. Because it is a title and not a proper name, in Hebrew, if
the deity is meant, it is usually preceded by the article, "Ha-Baal", "The Baal"m (proper names, such as
YHWH, Chemosh etc. do not receive the article). In English this is unnecessary because just the use of the
transliteration, especially with a capital initial letter, "Baal", makes it clear that this refers to
the deity, and not just to "a master". 

Hope that clarifies things.

Yigal Levin 

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces <at> lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces <at> lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf
Of Philip Hardy
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 7:54 AM
To: b-hebrew <at> lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [b-hebrew] יהוה vs הבעל

Hello.
 My Name is Philip A. Hardy. I have noticed that in most instance in the King James Bible where The word BAAL is
or any english word(s) that derived from the same Hebrew word that BAAL derived from, namley בעל, the
original Hebrew almost always has "הבעל". This I believe is best conveyed or rendered in Enlish as
"the owner", "the husband", "the master", or "the lord". Now where is found היהוה only once and
(Continue reading)

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Isaac Fried | 4 Aug 2012 01:43

Re: יהוה vs הבעל

KMO$ = KMO-E$, 'like fire'?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Aug 3, 2012, at 5:12 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

> "The Baal"m (proper names, such as YHWH, Chemosh etc. do not  
> receive the article).
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Isaac Fried | 3 Aug 2012 16:40

Re: יהוה vs הבעל

A Hebrew "personal" name need not, in my opinion, be a word. I think  
that the name BAAL is the composition BA-AL, where BA is 'be' ('come'  
in the existential sense), and where AL is 'up', as in our EL and  
ELOHIYM.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Aug 3, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Philip Hardy wrote:

> The word BAAL is or any english word(s) that derived from the same  
> Hebrew word that BAAL derived from, namley בעל, the original  
> Hebrew almost always has "הבעל". This I believe is best conveyed  
> or rendered in Enlish as "the owner", "the husband", "the master",  
> or "the lord".

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Steve Miller | 6 Aug 2012 02:49
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Re: יהוה vs הבעל

Philip,

If I understand you right, your proposed meaning of ha-baal is the exact opposite of the way the definite
article is used on a proper noun in Biblical Hebrew.  It seems you are saying that when "baal" has the
definite article, it is not a name, but "the husband".  In English that would be true, but in Hebrew it is the
opposite. Baal can be a word or a proper name. To refer to the name, Baal, rather than the word baal, in Hebrew
you put the definite article on it. So Ha-Baal means Baal the idol (unless the context might refer to a
previously-mentioned husband).  Baal without the definite article is usually the word baal, meaning
husband, etc.

I had asked a similar question on B-Hebrew in 2006 regarding place names, but the same applies to personal
names. Here's Yigal Levin's answer:
> Dear Steve,
>
> The general rule is that proper names don't need the article. However, 
> proper names that are understood as descriptive may receive the 
> article, since it's the article that makes them into proper names in 
> the first place.
> For example, "Mizpeh" means "lookout". For a "lookout" to be a proper name,
> it would have to be "The Lookout". This might eventually develop into 
> just "Lookout", if the place became so well-known that everyone would 
> know which
> lookout was meant. Of course, one problem that we have is that we 
> don't always know what the authors assumed that their readers would know.
>
> S. Noah Lee wrote an article on "The Use of the Definite Article in 
> the Developement of some Biblical Toponyms" in Vetus Testamentum 53 
> (2002), 334-349. I happen to have a photocopy. If you wish, contact me 
> off-list and
> I'll email you a copy.
(Continue reading)

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George Athas | 6 Aug 2012 02:58
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Re: יהוה vs הבעל

Steve, I'm not sure your reasoning works for this, though I see what you're getting at. As a common noun,
בעל may have the article or not. It all depends on its usage (definite or indefinite) within the
relevant clause, just like any other common noun. It happens to be a common noun that is used as a title, in
which case, again it may take the article or not, depending on usage. It's technically not a Proper Noun,
though as a title it often functions as one. So the analogy with the article on toponyms doesn't quite match
the issue here. The distinction between the common noun בעל and the derived title is not really
grammatical as such—it's a distinction of function within clause. In other words, you need to combine
semantics, syntax, and meaning to determine the use.


GEORGE ATHAS
Dean of Research,
Moore Theological College (moore.edu.au)
Sydney, Australia


From: Steve Miller <smille10 <at> sbcglobal.net<mailto:smille10 <at> sbcglobal.net>>
Reply-To: "steve <at> voiceInWilderness.info<mailto:steve <at> voiceInWilderness.info>" <steve <at> voiceInWilderness.info<mailto:steve <at> voiceInWilderness.info>>
Date: Monday, 6 August 2012 10:49 AM
To: 'Philip Hardy' <technologist1 <at> gmx.us<mailto:technologist1 <at> gmx.us>>
Cc: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew <at> lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:b-hebrew <at> lists.ibiblio.org>>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] יהוה vs הבעל

Philip,

If I understand you right, your proposed meaning of ha-baal is the exact opposite of the way the definite
article is used on a proper noun in Biblical Hebrew.  It seems you are saying that when "baal" has the
definite article, it is not a name, but "the husband".  In English that would be true, but in Hebrew it is the
opposite. Baal can be a word or a proper name. To refer to the name, Baal, rather than the word baal, in Hebrew
you put the definite article on it. So Ha-Baal means Baal the idol (unless the context might refer to a
(Continue reading)

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Isaac Fried | 6 Aug 2012 05:16

The root CPH

Its core meaning is 'lofty, towering', as in Song 7:4. The verb ZIPAH  
(which is like CABA, 'painted') is 'covered, put over, overlaid', as  
in Ex. 36:34 and in Is. 21:5. The ZOPEH, 'scout', raises himself or  
lifts his eyes to have a greater panoramic view.

The MIZPEH of Is. 21.8 may be a watchtower or a mere vantage point,  
like the SDE COPIYM of Nu. 23:14.

The act CAPAH is related to CAP, floated, swam', as in 2Ki 6:6, to  
CABAH, 'bloated', as in Nu 5:27,  and to CABA), 'multitude', as in  
Gen. 2:1.

It is also related to HI-CIYB, 'erected, raised', as in 1Ki. 16:34.

It is also related to $APAH, (also $APA with an ayin) 'wholesome,  
sound', as in Job 33:21, and the HAR NI-$PEH, 'lofty mountain', of  
Is. 13:2.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Aug 5, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Steve Miller wrote:

>> For example, "Mizpeh" means "lookout". For a "lookout" to be a  
>> proper name,
>> it would have to be "The Lookout".
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Gmane