headers
Amy Ostrom | 12 Dec 17:00

Laundry list for NGC (long post)

Dear NGC4Libbers:

I have not been able to keep up with all the posts, but it seems no one will just create a substantial list - too much theory and questioning/doubt behind everything.  I don't know about anyone else, but I am myself an end user, and I have a LOT of things I would love to see.  I don't care if it is done in collaboration with Amazon, or Worldcat, or any organization, but this is what I want.  I hope this proves beneficial.  (Apologies in advance for a long post.)

*I want it all in one place with option to see more or less (if it's on a booklist let me know, if it has reviews let me see them, put it all in the same place; if the library has it in audio and book format, put it in the same record!, seriously, if one type isn't in, I'll take another format - I don't want to click on 15 records just to find something; I also want to be able to hide some stuff if it is too cluttered)

*I want descriptions, dangit!  And why does no software exist for integrating series information in the catalog??  I want to know what the next book is!  (nothing like clicking on something you think you know what it is, and then it really isn't.  I HATE that for something I might be interested in, I have to go to Amazon first to find anything)

*I want to see related/similar materials (I want a smarter version of http://www.literature-map.com/, either to graphically display the closeness of the book/author, or to at least list what others think are close)

*I want to make wishlists and my own booklists (heck, if I read an awesome series, I want to let others see these books if they share similar tastes; also I may not have time to read right now, but doesn't mean I want to forget a book I found that might be worth reading later)

*I want pictures!  (I am visual, I'll know it's the right book if I can see it first; I want to see a sample of of the content as well, but would settle for a description)

*I want suggested searches and ways to narrow or broaden the search I made (if I can't remember the name or misspell it, I want it to act like Amazon and pull up suggested spellings or related searches, also broken down by category)

*I want the search to pull up the RIGHT materials (rank by popularity would work better than what item was last cataloged; Amazon is very good with its algorithm, it's not that hard to replicate - we can record how many times a record was viewed and how many times it was checked out, we know its publication date, we know its format, why can't we organize the search better?)

*I want an RSS feed for new items based on a search query (heck yeah I want to know what just came in without going to the catalog every day so I can get my hold on it ASAP, but I don't want to know EVERY item that is purchased, only what I am looking for; great for current awareness as well)

*I want to see the newly available items, especially in DVDs, CDs, and games (not just an RSS feed out, but actually on the site!)

*I want to know how long the wait list is, in days and or queue location (if it's too long, I'll just go buy the item)

*I want permalinks, so I can link to a book from my blog to the catalog instead of to amazon or remember easily how to get back to it without running the search again (I am all about promoting the library, but Amazon is better than the library could ever be with marketing and promoting, let's take their example!)

*It would be awesome to create my custom display, so I see what I want in the color I like (okay, it's a stretch, but it's all about customizing and personalizing these days)

*I want a map to show me the general shelf I might find my item (so many times an item was pulled out of the general collection and I pull my hair out in frustration)

*I want a library where I only have to sign in once, ONCE! (in my library catalog, every time I place a hold I have to enter my information; I log on, and I get signed out after maybe ten minutes of idleness - I'm probably surfing Amazon to find the RIGHT book...)

*I want to be able to turn on alerts for things like service outages, due dates, and overdues with quick access to renew, let alone modify my account profile and add password hints... (people are very forgetful)


So, from these wants, here is a basic (non-comprehensive) list of features we need to build a better catalog:

1.  XML format
2.  More (and better) content
3.  More pictures
4.  Smarter search engine
5.  RSS on the fly
6.  Commenting!!  Commenting!!
7.  User accounts
8.  Single sign-in
9.  User created lists/content
10. Permalinks
11. FRBR 2.0
12. Highly customizable interface
13. Highly user-friendly account settings/options
14. Smart spell-check aka related spelling/search terms
15. Organizable search results

So for those who aren't very technical and are kind of freaking out about the grocery list, the basic configurations should still be in tact with ability to enable the customization tools.  I am tired of code that is falling apart, personally, and I would love to have a "skin" collection similar to MySpace, where you can pick or share your theme (with small customizations for name, etc), so the smaller libraries can also have a pretty catalog.  Or even being able to share the customized configuration files without loss of security?  Seems like the world, but aren't we paying a fortune for these systems?

--

In peace,

Amy M Ostrom
Web Interface Designer
amostrom <at> gmail.com

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Gail Richardson | 12 Dec 18:09

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post)


Thank you for your awesome list. I think it is safe to say that this is what we all want - as users, and *for* our users. And it should all be possible, shouldn't it? Whether we will ever find all of this, or even most of it, through a vendor product, I don't know. I don't suspect so. So how can we do this for ourselves, do it right, and be consistent? I hate that each library does whatever slightly differently. I think it would be great if I could just go to one giant libary site, search and discover, then finally link to my local library where I can place a hold and pick it up.  I'm circulating this list to our staff - and putting it under the organizational Christmas Tree. Cheers - Gail

Gail Richardson - Ext. 5062
E-Services Coordinator
Oakville Public Library
120 Navy Street
(corner of Lakeshore Road and Navy Street)
Oakville, Ontario L6J 2Z4
Telephone: 905-815-2042
Fax: 905-815-2024



Amy Ostrom <amostrom <at> GMAIL.COM>
Sent by: Next generation catalogs for libraries <NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu>

12/12/2006 11:00 AM

Please respond to
Next generation catalogs for libraries <NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu>
To
 NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu
cc
Subject
 [NGC4LIB] Laundry list for NGC (long post)





Dear NGC4Libbers:

I have not been able to keep up with all the posts, but it seems no one will just create a substantial list - too much theory and questioning/doubt behind everything.  I don't know about anyone else, but I am myself an end user, and I have a LOT of things I would love to see.  I don't care if it is done in collaboration with Amazon, or Worldcat, or any organization, but this is what I want.  I hope this proves beneficial.  (Apologies in advance for a long post.)

*I want it all in one place with option to see more or less (if it's on a booklist let me know, if it has reviews let me see them, put it all in the same place; if the library has it in audio and book format, put it in the same record!, seriously, if one type isn't in, I'll take another format - I don't want to click on 15 records just to find something; I also want to be able to hide some stuff if it is too cluttered)

*I want descriptions, dangit!  And why does no software exist for integrating series information in the catalog??  I want to know what the next book is!  (nothing like clicking on something you think you know what it is, and then it really isn't.  I HATE that for something I might be interested in, I have to go to Amazon first to find anything)

*I want to see related/similar materials (I want a smarter version of http://www.literature-map.com/, either to graphically display the closeness of the book/author, or to at least list what others think are close)

*I want to make wishlists and my own booklists (heck, if I read an awesome series, I want to let others see these books if they share similar tastes; also I may not have time to read right now, but doesn't mean I want to forget a book I found that might be worth reading later)

*I want pictures!  (I am visual, I'll know it's the right book if I can see it first; I want to see a sample of of the content as well, but would settle for a description)

*I want suggested searches and ways to narrow or broaden the search I made (if I can't remember the name or misspell it, I want it to act like Amazon and pull up suggested spellings or related searches, also broken down by category)

*I want the search to pull up the RIGHT materials (rank by popularity would work better than what item was last cataloged; Amazon is very good with its algorithm, it's not that hard to replicate - we can record how many times a record was viewed and how many times it was checked out, we know its publication date, we know its format, why can't we organize the search better?)

*I want an RSS feed for new items based on a search query (heck yeah I want to know what just came in without going to the catalog every day so I can get my hold on it ASAP, but I don't want to know EVERY item that is purchased, only what I am looking for; great for current awareness as well)

*I want to see the newly available items, especially in DVDs, CDs, and games (not just an RSS feed out, but actually on the site!)

*I want to know how long the wait list is, in days and or queue location (if it's too long, I'll just go buy the item)

*I want permalinks, so I can link to a book from my blog to the catalog instead of to amazon or remember easily how to get back to it without running the search again (I am all about promoting the library, but Amazon is better than the library could ever be with marketing and promoting, let's take their example!)

*It would be awesome to create my custom display, so I see what I want in the color I like (okay, it's a stretch, but it's all about customizing and personalizing these days)

*I want a map to show me the general shelf I might find my item (so many times an item was pulled out of the general collection and I pull my hair out in frustration)

*I want a library where I only have to sign in once, ONCE! (in my library catalog, every time I place a hold I have to enter my information; I log on, and I get signed out after maybe ten minutes of idleness - I'm probably surfing Amazon to find the RIGHT book...)

*I want to be able to turn on alerts for things like service outages, due dates, and overdues with quick access to renew, let alone modify my account profile and add password hints... (people are very forgetful)


So, from these wants, here is a basic (non-comprehensive) list of features we need to build a better catalog:

1.  XML format
2.  More (and better) content
3.  More pictures
4.  Smarter search engine
5.  RSS on the fly
6.  Commenting!!  Commenting!!
7.  User accounts
8.  Single sign-in
9.  User created lists/content
10. Permalinks
11. FRBR 2.0
12. Highly customizable interface
13. Highly user-friendly account settings/options
14. Smart spell-check aka related spelling/search terms
15. Organizable search results

So for those who aren't very technical and are kind of freaking out about the grocery list, the basic configurations should still be in tact with ability to enable the customization tools.  I am tired of code that is falling apart, personally, and I would love to have a "skin" collection similar to MySpace, where you can pick or share your theme (with small customizations for name, etc), so the smaller libraries can also have a pretty catalog.  Or even being able to share the customized configuration files without loss of security?  Seems like the world, but aren't we paying a fortune for these systems?

--

In peace,

Amy M Ostrom
Web Interface Designer
amostrom <at> gmail.com
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Karen Coyle | 12 Dec 18:49

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post)

And I'm adding it to futurelib.pbwiki.com  (password: dewey76 -- all
welcome to add and edit) - kc

Gail Richardson wrote:
>
> Thank you for your awesome list. I think it is safe to say that this
> is what we all want - as users, and *for* our users. And it should all
> be possible, shouldn't it? Whether we will ever find all of this, or
> even most of it, through a vendor product, I don't know. I don't
> suspect so. So how can we do this for ourselves, do it right, and be
> consistent? I hate that each library does whatever slightly
> differently. I think it would be great if I could just go to one giant
> libary site, search and discover, then finally link to my local
> library where I can place a hold and pick it up.  I'm circulating this
> list to our staff - and putting it under the organizational Christmas
> Tree. Cheers - Gail
>
> Gail Richardson - Ext. 5062
> E-Services Coordinator
> Oakville Public Library
> 120 Navy Street
> (corner of Lakeshore Road and Navy Street)
> Oakville, Ontario L6J 2Z4
> Telephone: 905-815-2042
> Fax: 905-815-2024
>
>
>
> *Amy Ostrom <amostrom <at> GMAIL.COM>*
> Sent by: Next generation catalogs for libraries <NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu>
>
> 12/12/2006 11:00 AM
> Please respond to
> Next generation catalogs for libraries <NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu>
>
>
>
> To
>       NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu
> cc
>
> Subject
>       [NGC4LIB] Laundry list for NGC (long post)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear NGC4Libbers:
>
> I have not been able to keep up with all the posts, but it seems no
> one will just create a substantial list - too much theory and
> questioning/doubt behind everything.  I don't know about anyone else,
> but I am myself an end user, and I have a LOT of things I would love
> to see.  I don't care if it is done in collaboration with Amazon, or
> Worldcat, or any organization, but this is what I want.  I hope this
> proves beneficial.  (Apologies in advance for a long post.)
>
> *I want it all in one place with option to see more or less (if it's
> on a booklist let me know, if it has reviews let me see them, put it
> all in the same place; if the library has it in audio and book format,
> put it in the same record!, seriously, if one type isn't in, I'll take
> another format - I don't want to click on 15 records just to find
> something; I also want to be able to hide some stuff if it is too
> cluttered)
>
> *I want descriptions, dangit!  And why does no software exist for
> integrating series information in the catalog??  I want to know what
> the next book is!  (nothing like clicking on something you think you
> know what it is, and then it really isn't.  I HATE that for something
> I might be interested in, I have to go to Amazon first to find anything)
>
> *I want to see related/similar materials (I want a smarter version of
> _http://www.literature-map.com/_, either to graphically display the
> closeness of the book/author, or to at least list what others think
> are close)
>
> *I want to make wishlists and my own booklists (heck, if I read an
> awesome series, I want to let others see these books if they share
> similar tastes; also I may not have time to read right now, but
> doesn't mean I want to forget a book I found that might be worth
> reading later)
>
> *I want pictures!  (I am visual, I'll know it's the right book if I
> can see it first; I want to see a sample of of the content as well,
> but would settle for a description)
>
> *I want suggested searches and ways to narrow or broaden the search I
> made (if I can't remember the name or misspell it, I want it to act
> like Amazon and pull up suggested spellings or related searches, also
> broken down by category)
>
> *I want the search to pull up the RIGHT materials (rank by popularity
> would work better than what item was last cataloged; Amazon is very
> good with its algorithm, it's not that hard to replicate - we can
> record how many times a record was viewed and how many times it was
> checked out, we know its publication date, we know its format, why
> can't we organize the search better?)
>
> *I want an RSS feed for new items based on a search query (heck yeah I
> want to know what just came in without going to the catalog every day
> so I can get my hold on it ASAP, but I don't want to know EVERY item
> that is purchased, only what I am looking for; great for current
> awareness as well)
>
> *I want to see the newly available items, especially in DVDs, CDs, and
> games (not just an RSS feed out, but actually on the site!)
>
> *I want to know how long the wait list is, in days and or queue
> location (if it's too long, I'll just go buy the item)
>
> *I want permalinks, so I can link to a book from my blog to the
> catalog instead of to amazon or remember easily how to get back to it
> without running the search again (I am all about promoting the
> library, but Amazon is better than the library could ever be with
> marketing and promoting, let's take their example!)
>
> *It would be awesome to create my custom display, so I see what I want
> in the color I like (okay, it's a stretch, but it's all about
> customizing and personalizing these days)
>
> *I want a map to show me the general shelf I might find my item (so
> many times an item was pulled out of the general collection and I pull
> my hair out in frustration)
>
> *I want a library where I only have to sign in once, ONCE! (in my
> library catalog, every time I place a hold I have to enter my
> information; I log on, and I get signed out after maybe ten minutes of
> idleness - I'm probably surfing Amazon to find the RIGHT book...)
>
> *I want to be able to turn on alerts for things like service outages,
> due dates, and overdues with quick access to renew, let alone modify
> my account profile and add password hints... (people are very forgetful)
>
>
> So, from these wants, here is a basic (non-comprehensive) list of
> features we need to build a better catalog:
>
> 1.  XML format
> 2.  More (and better) content
> 3.  More pictures
> 4.  Smarter search engine
> 5.  RSS on the fly
> 6.  Commenting!!  Commenting!!
> 7.  User accounts
> 8.  Single sign-in
> 9.  User created lists/content
> 10. Permalinks
> 11. FRBR 2.0
> 12. Highly customizable interface
> 13. Highly user-friendly account settings/options
> 14. Smart spell-check aka related spelling/search terms
> 15. Organizable search results
>
> So for those who aren't very technical and are kind of freaking out
> about the grocery list, the basic configurations should still be in
> tact with ability to enable the customization tools.  I am tired of
> code that is falling apart, personally, and I would love to have a
> "skin" collection similar to MySpace, where you can pick or share your
> theme (with small customizations for name, etc), so the smaller
> libraries can also have a pretty catalog.  Or even being able to share
> the customized configuration files without loss of security?  Seems
> like the world, but aren't we paying a fortune for these systems?
>
> --
>
> In peace,
>
> Amy M Ostrom
> Web Interface Designer_
> __amostrom <at> gmail.com_ <mailto:amostrom <at> gmail.com>

--
-----------------------------------
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234
------------------------------------
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Rob Styles | 12 Dec 18:46

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post)

Gail,

I agree that Amy's list is a great contribution to this discussion. I wanted to pick up on one line in your
mail, though.

> I think it would be great if I could just go to one giant libary site,
> search and discover, then finally link to my local library where I can
> place a hold and pick it up.

Here at Talis we have a service called Source (http://www.talis.com/source/blog/) for ILL Librarians
that is free to contribute to and free to discover holdings on. The platform services that power this are
also powering the freely available Cenote (http://cenote.talis.com/). Cenote links through to
libraries wherever we have the information to and we've based that on an open directory that anyone can use
and help maintain (http://directory.talis.com/ui/). These things aren't just possible; there are
some folks here who want to help you do it.

Source is a UK service, but given today's technologies, the web and other advancements there is absolutely
no reason you shouldn't get what you want globally. We just have to change the way we think about this stuff;
open up, stop pretending we can "own" the data that everyone needs to share and, above all, build on a cost
model more like the one Google started with.

rob

Rob Styles
Technical Lead, Talis
tel: +44 (0)870 400 5000
fax: +44 (0)870 400 5001
direct: +44 (0)870 400 5004
mobile: +44 (0)7971 475 257
msn: mmmmmrob <at> yahoo.com
irc: irc.freenode.net/mmmmmrob,isnick

________________________________________
From: Next generation catalogs for libraries [mailto:NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Gail Richardson
Sent: 12 December 2006 17:10
To: NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Laundry list for NGC (long post)

Thank you for your awesome list. I think it is safe to say that this is what we all want - as users, and *for* our
users. And it should all be possible, shouldn't it? Whether we will ever find all of this, or even most of it,
through a vendor product, I don't know. I don't suspect so. So how can we do this for ourselves, do it right,
and be consistent? I hate that each library does whatever slightly differently. I think it would be great
if I could just go to one giant libary site, search and discover, then finally link to my local library where
I can place a hold and pick it up.  I'm circulating this list to our staff - and putting it under the
organizational Christmas Tree. Cheers - Gail

Gail Richardson - Ext. 5062
E-Services Coordinator
Oakville Public Library
120 Navy Street
(corner of Lakeshore Road and Navy Street)
Oakville, Ontario L6J 2Z4
Telephone: 905-815-2042
Fax: 905-815-2024

Amy Ostrom <amostrom <at> GMAIL.COM>
Sent by: Next generation catalogs for libraries <NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu>
12/12/2006 11:00 AM
Please respond to
Next generation catalogs for libraries <NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu>

To
NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu
cc

Subject
[NGC4LIB] Laundry list for NGC (long post)

Dear NGC4Libbers:

I have not been able to keep up with all the posts, but it seems no one will just create a substantial list - too
much theory and questioning/doubt behind everything.  I don't know about anyone else, but I am myself an
end user, and I have a LOT of things I would love to see.  I don't care if it is done in collaboration with
Amazon, or Worldcat, or any organization, but this is what I want.  I hope this proves beneficial. 
(Apologies in advance for a long post.)

*I want it all in one place with option to see more or less (if it's on a booklist let me know, if it has reviews
let me see them, put it all in the same place; if the library has it in audio and book format, put it in the same
record!, seriously, if one type isn't in, I'll take another format - I don't want to click on 15 records just
to find something; I also want to be able to hide some stuff if it is too cluttered)

*I want descriptions, dangit!  And why does no software exist for integrating series information in the
catalog??  I want to know what the next book is!  (nothing like clicking on something you think you know what
it is, and then it really isn't.  I HATE that for something I might be interested in, I have to go to Amazon
first to find anything)

*I want to see related/similar materials (I want a smarter version of http://www.literature-map.com/,
either to graphically display the closeness of the book/author, or to at least list what others think are close)

*I want to make wishlists and my own booklists (heck, if I read an awesome series, I want to let others see
these books if they share similar tastes; also I may not have time to read right now, but doesn't mean I want
to forget a book I found that might be worth reading later)

*I want pictures!  (I am visual, I'll know it's the right book if I can see it first; I want to see a sample of of
the content as well, but would settle for a description)

*I want suggested searches and ways to narrow or broaden the search I made (if I can't remember the name or
misspell it, I want it to act like Amazon and pull up suggested spellings or related searches, also broken
down by category)

*I want the search to pull up the RIGHT materials (rank by popularity would work better than what item was
last cataloged; Amazon is very good with its algorithm, it's not that hard to replicate - we can record how
many times a record was viewed and how many times it was checked out, we know its publication date, we know
its format, why can't we organize the search better?)

*I want an RSS feed for new items based on a search query (heck yeah I want to know what just came in without
going to the catalog every day so I can get my hold on it ASAP, but I don't want to know EVERY item that is
purchased, only what I am looking for; great for current awareness as well)

*I want to see the newly available items, especially in DVDs, CDs, and games (not just an RSS feed out, but
actually on the site!)

*I want to know how long the wait list is, in days and or queue location (if it's too long, I'll just go buy the item)

*I want permalinks, so I can link to a book from my blog to the catalog instead of to amazon or remember easily
how to get back to it without running the search again (I am all about promoting the library, but Amazon is
better than the library could ever be with marketing and promoting, let's take their example!)

*It would be awesome to create my custom display, so I see what I want in the color I like (okay, it's a stretch,
but it's all about customizing and personalizing these days)

*I want a map to show me the general shelf I might find my item (so many times an item was pulled out of the
general collection and I pull my hair out in frustration)

*I want a library where I only have to sign in once, ONCE! (in my library catalog, every time I place a hold I
have to enter my information; I log on, and I get signed out after maybe ten minutes of idleness - I'm
probably surfing Amazon to find the RIGHT book...)

*I want to be able to turn on alerts for things like service outages, due dates, and overdues with quick
access to renew, let alone modify my account profile and add password hints... (people are very forgetful)

So, from these wants, here is a basic (non-comprehensive) list of features we need to build a better catalog:

1.  XML format
2.  More (and better) content
3.  More pictures
4.  Smarter search engine
5.  RSS on the fly
6.  Commenting!!  Commenting!!
7.  User accounts
8.  Single sign-in
9.  User created lists/content
10. Permalinks
11. FRBR 2.0
12. Highly customizable interface
13. Highly user-friendly account settings/options
14. Smart spell-check aka related spelling/search terms
15. Organizable search results

So for those who aren't very technical and are kind of freaking out about the grocery list, the basic
configurations should still be in tact with ability to enable the customization tools.  I am tired of code
that is falling apart, personally, and I would love to have a "skin" collection similar to MySpace, where
you can pick or share your theme (with small customizations for name, etc), so the smaller libraries can
also have a pretty catalog.  Or even being able to share the customized configuration files without loss of
security?  Seems like the world, but aren't we paying a fortune for these systems?

--

In peace,

Amy M Ostrom
Web Interface Designer
amostrom <at> gmail.com

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Joshua Ferraro | 12 Dec 21:28

Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

Amy,

Thanks for such a great list. Out of curiosity I compared the
functionality you describe to the some of the current functionality of
Koha ZOOM's new search engine (Koha was the first open-source ILS). Here's what
I came up with:

On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 10:00:54AM -0600, Amy Ostrom wrote:
>    *I want it all in one place with option to see more or less (if it's on a
>    booklist let me know, if it has reviews let me see them, put it all in the
>    same place; if the library has it in audio and book format, put it in the
>    same record!, seriously, if one type isn't in, I'll take another format -
>    I don't want to click on 15 records just to find something; I also want to
>    be able to hide some stuff if it is too cluttered)
Right, so this is a biggie. Koha's had a concept of a 'metarecord' since
version 1.0. Give this a shot:

http://www.library.org.nz.
Search on "harry potter and the chamber of secrets"

The item record:
http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=35551
contains several material types: Video, DVD, Fiction, Talking Book, etc.

When you go to place a reserve, it'll ask you whether you care about the
material type or not ... if you don't it'll just pull the next avaialble
one.

>    *I want descriptions, dangit!  And why does no software exist for
>    integrating series information in the catalog??  I want to know what the
>    next book is!  (nothing like clicking on something you think you know what
>    it is, and then it really isn't.  I HATE that for something I might be
>    interested in, I have to go to Amazon first to find anything)
So ... how about having Amazon.com descriptions in your catalog ... and
how about having them downloaded in real time as you pull up the record?
Amazon licenses this material for free under its Associates and
Developer programs.

Here's what that looks like using Koha ZOOM's Amazon module:

http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/bib/158735

Heck, why limit yourself to descriptions, take a look at the ratings and
reviews as well. And while you're at it, might as well click on the
image which takes you directly to the book itself so you can read it
online.

>    *I want to see related/similar materials (I want a smarter version of
>    http://www.literature-map.com/, either to graphically display the
>    closeness of the book/author, or to at least list what others think are
>    close)
Very cool idea. How about this implementation:
http://library.neu.edu.tr/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl

Do a search on 'harry potter' and then click on any of the links in the 'Shelf'
column -- you should get a popup with a map and even some little
animated arrows to show you how to get to the shelf.

>    *I want to make wishlists and my own booklists (heck, if I read an awesome
>    series, I want to let others see these books if they share similar tastes;
>    also I may not have time to read right now, but doesn't mean I want to
>    forget a book I found that might be worth reading later)
Right, so in Koha this is done with a feature called 'virtual shelves'.
You can add as many shelves to your account as you want, and can make
them visible to others or keep them to yourself. Librarians can also
make lists that everyone can see. Have a look:

http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/cgi-bin/koha/opac-shelves.pl

Of course, to create your own you'd have to log in, etc ...

>    *I want pictures!  (I am visual, I'll know it's the right book if I can
>    see it first; I want to see a sample of of the content as well, but would
>    settle for a description)
http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search?q=harry+potter

The images are pulled from Amazon.com under the same agreement as
mentioned above.

>    *I want suggested searches and ways to narrow or broaden the search I made
>    (if I can't remember the name or misspell it, I want it to act like Amazon
>    and pull up suggested spellings or related searches, also broken down by
>    category)
So ... notice the faceted results in the above query. You can use them
to refine your search.

There is also a link at the top 'limit to currently available items'.

Also, check out the re-sort options on the right-hand top of the results
page, you can even resort by popularity!

Spellchecking ... the system automatically incorporates a fuzzy operator
into every query so that catches most spelling errors. There's a backup
spellcheck in case the fuzzy operator didn't catch anything, here's what
that looks like:

http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search?q=neeel+stephenson

>    *I want the search to pull up the RIGHT materials (rank by popularity
>    would work better than what item was last cataloged; Amazon is very good
>    with its algorithm, it's not that hard to replicate - we can record how
>    many times a record was viewed and how many times it was checked out, we
>    know its publication date, we know its format, why can't we organize the
>    search better?)
Yea, this is a biggie. Koha ZOOM's results algorithm has been fine-tuned
based on library specifications. This means we actually sat down with a
bunch of librarians and did walked through some searches to see how they
wanted the system to behave. Here are some examples:

Single word titles:
http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search?q=it
http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search?q=the

Series titles:
http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search?q=the+baroque+cycle

In the case of Athens County, they didn't want popularity to be included
in the rank, but they did want it to be available as a re-sort option.
But ultimately, how the search should work is up to the library.

>    *I want an RSS feed for new items based on a search query (heck yeah I
>    want to know what just came in without going to the catalog every day so I
>    can get my hold on it ASAP, but I don't want to know EVERY item that is
>    purchased, only what I am looking for; great for current awareness as
>    well)
So what you want is RSS feeds on search criteria. Hmmm ... well that's
pretty simple, Koha uses OpenSearch for that. Have a look:

http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search?q=neal+stephenson

(look for the little RSS icon after 'currently available items' ... it's
an RSS feed of whatever search you just did ...) So you could do a
search on say, the latest DVDs, then copy that RSS feed link into your
RSS reader and it would track if anything on that list changed.

There's a separate RSS feature unrelated to OpenSearch that just tracks
the latest items added to the collection. The Northland College uses
this here: https://libcat.nbbc.edu/ (check the 'RSS Feed of Recently
Acquired Items' link at the bottom of the page).

>    *I want to see the newly available items, especially in DVDs, CDs, and
>    games (not just an RSS feed out, but actually on the site!)
How about a sort based on date acquired that you can turn into a link to
put on your website:

http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us (look for the link on the
right-hand side 'See Our Newest DVDs')

>    *I want to know how long the wait list is, in days and or queue location
>    (if it's too long, I'll just go buy the item)
Very cool idea. Koha ZOOM does tell you where you are in the queue and
when the item is due back ... but I suppose it would require a bit of
trickiness to calculate how long you'd have to wait if you weren't the
next in the list ... hmmm, I'll give that some thought.

>    *I want permalinks, so I can link to a book from my blog to the catalog
>    instead of to amazon or remember easily how to get back to it without
>    running the search again (I am all about promoting the library, but Amazon
>    is better than the library could ever be with marketing and promoting,
>    let's take their example!)
How about permalinks by record ID or ISBN:

http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/bib/16595
http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/isbn/0375502246

>    *It would be awesome to create my custom display, so I see what I want in
>    the color I like (okay, it's a stretch, but it's all about customizing and
>    personalizing these days)
Hehe ... yea, stay tuned for this one. We're implementing a stylesheet
switcher that will allow you to change the color on the fly ...

What would be really slick is to re-implement the OPAC using one of the
available UI libraries (like Yahoo's maybe), that would allow the user
to actually move items around on the screen, etc. ... I'll give that
some thought as well.

>    *I want a map to show me the general shelf I might find my item (so many
>    times an item was pulled out of the general collection and I pull my hair
>    out in frustration)
See the link I posted above about the shelf location map ...

>    *I want a library where I only have to sign in once, ONCE! (in my library
>    catalog, every time I place a hold I have to enter my information; I log
>    on, and I get signed out after maybe ten minutes of idleness - I'm
>    probably surfing Amazon to find the RIGHT book...)
Koha's session management takes care of that. You sign in once, it remembers
who you are. It even has the amazon-style 'click here if you're not So
and So'.

>    *I want to be able to turn on alerts for things like service outages, due
>    dates, and overdues with quick access to renew, let alone modify my
>    account profile and add password hints... (people are very forgetful)
Libraries can turn these on globally. Off the top of my head we've got:

  * overdue notices via email or RSS
  * hold request status via email or RSS
  * due dates warnings via email or RSS

You can also (of course) place holds, renew items online, check your
account balance (and soon you'll be able to pay it with paypal).

It would be really slick to allow a patron to turn on alerts, etc on their account.

>    So, from these wants, here is a basic (non-comprehensive) list of features
>    we need to build a better catalog:
>
>    1.  XML format
>    2.  More (and better) content
>    3.  More pictures
>    4.  Smarter search engine
>    5.  RSS on the fly
>    6.  Commenting!!  Commenting!!
>    7.  User accounts
>    8.  Single sign-in
>    9.  User created lists/content
>    10. Permalinks
>    11. FRBR 2.0
>    12. Highly customizable interface
>    13. Highly user-friendly account settings/options
>    14. Smart spell-check aka related spelling/search terms
>    15. Organizable search results
>
>    So for those who aren't very technical and are kind of freaking out about
>    the grocery list, the basic configurations should still be in tact with
>    ability to enable the customization tools.  I am tired of code that is
>    falling apart, personally, and I would love to have a "skin" collection
>    similar to MySpace, where you can pick or share your theme (with small
>    customizations for name, etc), so the smaller libraries can also have a
>    pretty catalog.  Or even being able to share the customized configuration
>    files without loss of security?  Seems like the world, but aren't we
>    paying a fortune for these systems?
The skin idea is fantastic. I'd love to explore that with Koha ...

Since you brought up payment, I'll just take this opportunity to say
that all of the features I've reviewed above were sponsored by libraries
who, at one point or another, had the same idea you did. Most of the
libraries I've cited don't even have a tech staff implementing these
features, they hired Koha companies to create the features and contribute
them back to the community.

I should also mention that Koha's search engine is built on top of Zebra
(http://indexdata.dk/zebra), an open-source indexing engine, and that in
addition to the amazing flexibility in terms of search options, it can
easily scale to tens of millions of records with no performance loss.

Anyway, thanks for the list, it was fun filling in the answers ;-).
There's a lot more functionality in Koha ZOOM but that's probably best
saved for another email.

Cheers,

--
Joshua Ferraro                       SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE
President, Technology       migration, training, maintenance, support
LibLime                                Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS
jmf <at> liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
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Casey Durfee | 12 Dec 22:08

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

How are you doing the amazon content without violating their terms of service?  They limit you to 1 request/IP address/second and put strict limits on how long you can cache their information for.  You're not loading the Amazon content on the client side with JSON or something, so the Koha server is doing the requests for data from Amazon.  How is Koha getting around that limitation?
 
--Casey
 
>>> Joshua Ferraro jmf <at> liblime.com> 12/12/2006 12:28 PM >>


>    *I want descriptions, dangit!  And why does no software exist for
>    integrating series information in the catalog??  I want to know what the
>    next book is!  (nothing like clicking on something you think you know what
>    it is, and then it really isn't.  I HATE that for something I might be
>    interested in, I have to go to Amazon first to find anything)
So ... how about having Amazon.com descriptions in your catalog ... and
how about having them downloaded in real time as you pull up the record?
Amazon licenses this material for free under its Associates and
Developer programs.

Here's what that looks like using Koha ZOOM's Amazon module:

http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/bib/158735

Heck, why limit yourself to descriptions, take a look at the ratings and
reviews as well. And while you're at it, might as well click on the
image which takes you directly to the book itself so you can read it
online.
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Tim Spalding | 12 Dec 23:21

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

Amazon licenses for free, but you have to link back to them wherever
you use their data. How many libraries want to become an Amazon sales
channel?

Tim

On 12/12/06, Casey Durfee <Casey.Durfee <at> spl.org> wrote:
>
>
> How are you doing the amazon content without violating their terms of
> service?  They limit you to 1 request/IP address/second and put strict
> limits on how long you can cache their information for.  You're not loading
> the Amazon content on the client side with JSON or something, so the Koha
> server is doing the requests for data from Amazon.  How is Koha getting
> around that limitation?
>
> --Casey
>
> >>> Joshua Ferraro jmf <at> liblime.com> 12/12/2006 12:28 PM >>
>
>
> >    *I want descriptions, dangit!  And why does no software exist for
> >    integrating series information in the catalog??  I want to know what
> the
> >    next book is!  (nothing like clicking on something you think you know
> what
> >    it is, and then it really isn't.  I HATE that for something I might be
> >    interested in, I have to go to Amazon first to find anything)
> So ... how about having Amazon.com descriptions in your catalog ... and
> how about having them downloaded in real time as you pull up the record?
> Amazon licenses this material for free under its Associates and
> Developer programs.
>
> Here's what that looks like using Koha ZOOM's Amazon module:
>
> http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/bib/158735
>
> Heck, why limit yourself to descriptions, take a look at the ratings and
> reviews as well. And while you're at it, might as well click on the
> image which takes you directly to the book itself so you can read it
> online.
>
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Chris Cormack | 12 Dec 23:37

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?



On 12/13/06, Tim Spalding <tim <at> librarything.com> wrote:
Amazon licenses for free, but you have to link back to them wherever
you use their data. How many libraries want to become an Amazon sales
channel?

Thats the beautiful thing with Open Source and Koha in particular, if you dont want to use the feature, go into the system preferences and turn it off. Voila :)

Having said that, plenty of libraries seem to be just fine with it. I figure, let them choose.

Chris


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Jonathan Rochkind | 12 Dec 23:49

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

Somehow Koha seems to be using their data without linking back to them,
which I don't understand how they can get away with that either. Maybe
they are linking back to them, just so subtly I'm not noticing or
something.

Jonathan

Tim Spalding wrote:
> Amazon licenses for free, but you have to link back to them wherever
> you use their data. How many libraries want to become an Amazon sales
> channel?
>
> Tim
>
> On 12/12/06, Casey Durfee <Casey.Durfee <at> spl.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> How are you doing the amazon content without violating their terms of
>> service?  They limit you to 1 request/IP address/second and put strict
>> limits on how long you can cache their information for.  You're not
>> loading
>> the Amazon content on the client side with JSON or something, so the
>> Koha
>> server is doing the requests for data from Amazon.  How is Koha getting
>> around that limitation?
>>
>> --Casey
>>
>> >>> Joshua Ferraro jmf <at> liblime.com> 12/12/2006 12:28 PM >>
>>
>>
>> >    *I want descriptions, dangit!  And why does no software exist for
>> >    integrating series information in the catalog??  I want to know
>> what
>> the
>> >    next book is!  (nothing like clicking on something you think you
>> know
>> what
>> >    it is, and then it really isn't.  I HATE that for something I
>> might be
>> >    interested in, I have to go to Amazon first to find anything)
>> So ... how about having Amazon.com descriptions in your catalog ... and
>> how about having them downloaded in real time as you pull up the record?
>> Amazon licenses this material for free under its Associates and
>> Developer programs.
>>
>> Here's what that looks like using Koha ZOOM's Amazon module:
>>
>> http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/bib/158735
>>
>> Heck, why limit yourself to descriptions, take a look at the ratings and
>> reviews as well. And while you're at it, might as well click on the
>> image which takes you directly to the book itself so you can read it
>> online.
>>
>

--
Jonathan Rochkind
Sr. Programmer/Analyst
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886
rochkind (at) jhu.edu
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Chris Cormack | 12 Dec 23:53

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?



On 12/13/06, Jonathan Rochkind <rochkind <at> jhu.edu> wrote:
Somehow Koha seems to be using their data without linking back to them,
which I don't understand how they can get away with that either. Maybe
they are linking back to them, just so subtly I'm not noticing or
something.


The book cover links back.

Chris


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Tim Spalding | 13 Dec 01:11

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

If the library world is looking for a simple open-source project,
setting up a big cover database would be tops on my list.

Amazon, Syndetics and so forth don't "own" the covers they provide.
They just did the work of getting them—99% from publishers—and since
they provide them, they can put them under a license if they want.*

All someone needs to do is set up a website, accept covers that come
in and particularly, make it easy to get feeds from publishers.
Publishers are eager to help. LibraryThing, for example, was granted
access to covers of all the Random House and much of Harper Collins,
without going to much trouble over it. Publishers want their data out
there, and are indeed annoyed that others resell what they made.

Anyone interested in doing this? Anyone interested in doing it with
LibraryThing? You provide the programming, we'll give it servers and
bandwidth...

Tim

*Amazon serves the files even if you've never agreed to anything, but
we'll leave that off. In my understanding, covers retain their
original (publisher) copyright but displaying them as a product shot
is always legal. (Taking the cover out of context and using it to make
some other work of art would not be.)

On 12/12/06, Chris Cormack <chris <at> bigballofwax.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> On 12/13/06, Jonathan Rochkind <rochkind <at> jhu.edu> wrote:
> > Somehow Koha seems to be using their data without linking back to them,
> > which I don't understand how they can get away with that either. Maybe
> > they are linking back to them, just so subtly I'm not noticing or
> > something.
>
>
> The book cover links back.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
Permalink | Reply |
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Chris Cormack | 13 Dec 01:59

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?



On 12/13/06, Tim Spalding <tim <at> librarything.com > wrote:
If the library world is looking for a simple open-source project,
setting up a big cover database would be tops on my list.

Amazon, Syndetics and so forth don't "own" the covers they provide.
They just did the work of getting them—99% from publishers—and since
they provide them, they can put them under a license if they want.*

All someone needs to do is set up a website, accept covers that come
in and particularly, make it easy to get feeds from publishers.
Publishers are eager to help. LibraryThing, for example, was granted
access to covers of all the Random House and much of Harper Collins,
without going to much trouble over it. Publishers want their data out
there, and are indeed annoyed that others resell what they made.

That sounds  like a great project to get content and put it under a
creative commons type license. With the buy in from the publishers of course.
And if we did it, such that it was general enough (the application that is not the content) such that it could be used by others for other purposes. It would perhaps be a useful Open Source project.

I reckon with ruby on rails something could be whacked up pretty fast to do what you describe. If I didnt have a 3 week old son and more work than you can shake a stick at. Id certainly volunteer. Its a great idea, open content is as least as important as open source.

Chris

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Karen Coyle | 13 Dec 02:14

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

Chris Cormack wrote:
> That sounds  like a great project to get content and put it under a
> creative commons type license. With the buy in from the publishers of
> course.
> And if we did it, such that it was general enough (the application
> that is not the content) such that it could be used by others for
> other purposes. It would perhaps be a useful Open Source project.
>
>
Yes, great idea! So, what would be the best link between the library
catalogs and the covers? Is the ISBN enough? If we don't have a
paperback cover, could we link to the cover for the hardback? etc. I'm
game to throw in my bib-metadata knowledge if needed. We would have to
get the publishers to agree on a CC license, and we'd need to get the
license image or link embedded in the cover image or linked to it in
some way.

OK, I'm jumping ahead myself now. Need to go take a few deep breaths.

kc

--
-----------------------------------
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234
------------------------------------
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Tim Spalding | 13 Dec 03:12

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

Karen (et al.),

So, I'm hasty. Let's do it. I really want to help and indeed for
LibraryThing to take the lead on this—with everything being fully
downloadable and open source, of course, so LibraryThing doesn't have
any real power over it. I whacked together the first LibraryThing in a
month. This is a weekend job, I think.

Caveat: The very real beauty of Ruby notwithstanding, I'm not going to
help unless it's in PHP. (I'm limited, and PHP is the most widely
shared hacker language.)

Some initial thoughts/responses:

1. Code should be CC.
2. There's a lot of PHP code from LibraryThing we'd be glad to release
in the CC. Image downsampling, ISBN checking, etc.
3. Covers can't actually be CC. In my understanding, covers retain
their copyright, it's just that showing them in our contexts is
automatic fair use. If every bookstore needed to get permission to
show a book cover—or a poster or etc.—in an advertisement, chaos would
ensue! That's how covers work. But you can't take a piece of a cover
and use it for some other purpose. For starters, many covers show
copyrighted, permissioned art.
4. The data should be freely available for putting on other servers,
but if LibraryThing hosts the first copy, we obviously reserve the
right not to provide ten terabytes/day to one IP. We just paid for
another tube, though, so we've got bandwidth to spare. It's not like
we're talking video here.
5. I'd love to hear what you think, but I propose going as minimal as
possible with the bibliographic data. The primary access should be by
a URL, e.g., http://www.coverthing.com/small/006076550X (yes, I just
bought that domain, and bookdatathing.com for good measure <grin>).
That would return either a cover or a 1x1 transparent pixel, just like
Amazon. Consequently, if there's an ISBN, it should be by ISBN (10 and
13 handled equally). If not, I think it's by LCCN, if there is one. If
not, we can come up with a unique key and provide a way to search for
it, but its unlikely to be found.
6. Starter interface is a simple form—as simple as possible. ISBN,
type (cover is default) and the upload itself. It should be easy as
pie to upload images. There are, for example, thousands of Amazon
users who gave Amazon their "customer images" just because it felt
good—many have given hundreds of them. And LibraryThing is
*constantly* sent cover art by authors, who don't know that we can't
used it.
7. I propose we adopt some standard sizes. They would be downsampled
from what you start from, which would always be retained.
8. I'd also like to push for some optional variants, like (a) cover
image (b) back cover (c) spine image (d) other user image.
LibraryThing users want spines, I know.
9. I can contribute a mess of data. In theory, LibraryThing can
contribute its 230,213 (!!) user-provided covers. (I need to read up
more on some legal issues involved before I stake the company on it.)
And, although I'd like to check with the publishers just to make sure,
we can contribute the ONIX feed covers too. (I don't know the number,
but it's big, albeit focused on two publishers).

Okay, breathe, breathe.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net>
Date: Dec 12, 2006 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?
To: NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu

Chris Cormack wrote:
> That sounds  like a great project to get content and put it under a
> creative commons type license. With the buy in from the publishers of
> course.
> And if we did it, such that it was general enough (the application
> that is not the content) such that it could be used by others for
> other purposes. It would perhaps be a useful Open Source project.
>
>
Yes, great idea! So, what would be the best link between the library
catalogs and the covers? Is the ISBN enough? If we don't have a
paperback cover, could we link to the cover for the hardback? etc. I'm
game to throw in my bib-metadata knowledge if needed. We would have to
get the publishers to agree on a CC license, and we'd need to get the
license image or link embedded in the cover image or linked to it in
some way.

OK, I'm jumping ahead myself now. Need to go take a few deep breaths.

kc

--
-----------------------------------
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234
------------------------------------
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Jonathan Rochkind | 13 Dec 20:27

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

Wait a second, if you already have all those covers in LibraryThing
(200k?!).... and you are willing to host the diskspace/bandwidth...
maybe LibraryThing already _is_ the service we want?

What if you just provided a "provide an isbn, get some URLs to book
covers" web service into the LibraryThing database?  If people want to
add book covers, they can do it via the existing LibraryThing interface.
It wouldn't give you the spines and the other advanced features, but
it'd be a pretty good start.

Don't get me wrong, the overall service you suggest would be BETTER (not
least becuase we really could use an independent cooperative service
that is NOT part of LibraryThing or any other commercial service, and I
really appreciate you offering to provide the infrastructure for such),
and really not THAT much work. But it still hasn't got done yet.  An API
"give an ISBN, get a book cover" into LibraryThing would be a lot better
than nothing. Am I missing something?

--Jonathan

Tim Spalding wrote:
> Karen (et al.),
>
> So, I'm hasty. Let's do it. I really want to help and indeed for
> LibraryThing to take the lead on this—with everything being fully
> downloadable and open source, of course, so LibraryThing doesn't have
> any real power over it. I whacked together the first LibraryThing in a
> month. This is a weekend job, I think.
>
> Caveat: The very real beauty of Ruby notwithstanding, I'm not going to
> help unless it's in PHP. (I'm limited, and PHP is the most widely
> shared hacker language.)
>
> Some initial thoughts/responses:
>
> 1. Code should be CC.
> 2. There's a lot of PHP code from LibraryThing we'd be glad to release
> in the CC. Image downsampling, ISBN checking, etc.
> 3. Covers can't actually be CC. In my understanding, covers retain
> their copyright, it's just that showing them in our contexts is
> automatic fair use. If every bookstore needed to get permission to
> show a book cover—or a poster or etc.—in an advertisement, chaos would
> ensue! That's how covers work. But you can't take a piece of a cover
> and use it for some other purpose. For starters, many covers show
> copyrighted, permissioned art.
> 4. The data should be freely available for putting on other servers,
> but if LibraryThing hosts the first copy, we obviously reserve the
> right not to provide ten terabytes/day to one IP. We just paid for
> another tube, though, so we've got bandwidth to spare. It's not like
> we're talking video here.
> 5. I'd love to hear what you think, but I propose going as minimal as
> possible with the bibliographic data. The primary access should be by
> a URL, e.g., http://www.coverthing.com/small/006076550X (yes, I just
> bought that domain, and bookdatathing.com for good measure <grin>).
> That would return either a cover or a 1x1 transparent pixel, just like
> Amazon. Consequently, if there's an ISBN, it should be by ISBN (10 and
> 13 handled equally). If not, I think it's by LCCN, if there is one. If
> not, we can come up with a unique key and provide a way to search for
> it, but its unlikely to be found.
> 6. Starter interface is a simple form—as simple as possible. ISBN,
> type (cover is default) and the upload itself. It should be easy as
> pie to upload images. There are, for example, thousands of Amazon
> users who gave Amazon their "customer images" just because it felt
> good—many have given hundreds of them. And LibraryThing is
> *constantly* sent cover art by authors, who don't know that we can't
> used it.
> 7. I propose we adopt some standard sizes. They would be downsampled
> from what you start from, which would always be retained.
> 8. I'd also like to push for some optional variants, like (a) cover
> image (b) back cover (c) spine image (d) other user image.
> LibraryThing users want spines, I know.
> 9. I can contribute a mess of data. In theory, LibraryThing can
> contribute its 230,213 (!!) user-provided covers. (I need to read up
> more on some legal issues involved before I stake the company on it.)
> And, although I'd like to check with the publishers just to make sure,
> we can contribute the ONIX feed covers too. (I don't know the number,
> but it's big, albeit focused on two publishers).
>
> Okay, breathe, breathe.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net>
> Date: Dec 12, 2006 8:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure
> up?
> To: NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu
>
> Chris Cormack wrote:
>> That sounds  like a great project to get content and put it under a
>> creative commons type license. With the buy in from the publishers of
>> course.
>> And if we did it, such that it was general enough (the application
>> that is not the content) such that it could be used by others for
>> other purposes. It would perhaps be a useful Open Source project.
>>
>>
> Yes, great idea! So, what would be the best link between the library
> catalogs and the covers? Is the ISBN enough? If we don't have a
> paperback cover, could we link to the cover for the hardback? etc. I'm
> game to throw in my bib-metadata knowledge if needed. We would have to
> get the publishers to agree on a CC license, and we'd need to get the
> license image or link embedded in the cover image or linked to it in
> some way.
>
> OK, I'm jumping ahead myself now. Need to go take a few deep breaths.
>
> kc
>
> --
> -----------------------------------
> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
> ph.: 510-540-7596
> fx.: 510-848-3913
> mo.: 510-435-8234
> ------------------------------------
>

--
Jonathan Rochkind
Sr. Programmer/Analyst
The Sheridan Libraries
Johns Hopkins University
410.516.8886
rochkind (at) jhu.edu
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headers
Lynn Reynish | 13 Dec 06:40

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

Tim,

This does sound like a great project. However, I will note that ISBN is
probably not enough if you want to include CDs and DVDs - most of which
don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these items but I'm not sure if
there are any widespread standard numbers in use for CDs or DVDs outside
of mainstream Western classical/pop/rock music (which often has a music
number). ISBNs have their own problems of course - but at least they exist
for a lot of items.

Lynn

> Chris Cormack wrote:
>> That sounds  like a great project to get content and put it under a
>> creative commons type license. With the buy in from the publishers of
>> course.
>> And if we did it, such that it was general enough (the application
>> that is not the content) such that it could be used by others for
>> other purposes. It would perhaps be a useful Open Source project.
>>
>>
> Yes, great idea! So, what would be the best link between the library
> catalogs and the covers? Is the ISBN enough? If we don't have a
> paperback cover, could we link to the cover for the hardback? etc. I'm
> game to throw in my bib-metadata knowledge if needed. We would have to
> get the publishers to agree on a CC license, and we'd need to get the
> license image or link embedded in the cover image or linked to it in
> some way.
>
> OK, I'm jumping ahead myself now. Need to go take a few deep breaths.
>
> kc
>
> --
> -----------------------------------
> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
> ph.: 510-540-7596
> fx.: 510-848-3913
> mo.: 510-435-8234
> ------------------------------------
>

--
Lynn Reynish
ILS Librarian
Regina Public Library
lreynish <at> reginalibrary.ca
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Anders Ringnér | 13 Dec 12:30

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
> This does sound like a great project. However, I will note that ISBN is
> probably not enough if you want to include CDs and DVDs - most of which
> don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these items but I'm not sure if
> there are any widespread standard numbers in use for CDs or DVDs outside
> of mainstream Western classical/pop/rock music (which often has a music
> number). ISBNs have their own problems of course - but at least they exist
> for a lot of items.

Would using the UPC/EAN-code be an alternative? If we then converted all
ISBN-10 to ISBN-13, which in fact is identical to the EAN, we'd end up with
the same style of numbers for all objects, regardless of format (book, CD,
DVD and so on). All pictures would be stored by their EAN-code.

/Anders
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Lynn Reynish | 14 Dec 15:21

Re: Laundry list for NGC (long post) -- How does Koha measure up?

Hmmmm.... UPC/EAN-code may indeed be an alternative. It would certainly
be no worse than an ISBN.

Lynn

Anders Ringnér wrote:
> From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
>> This does sound like a great project. However, I will note that ISBN is
>> probably not enough if you want to include CDs and DVDs - most of which
>> don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these items but I'm not
>> sure if
>> there are any widespread standard numbers in use for CDs or DVDs outside
>> of mainstream Western classical/pop/rock music (which often has a music
>> number). ISBNs have their own problems of course - but at least they
>> exist
>> for a lot of items.
>
> Would using the UPC/EAN-code be an alternative? If we then converted all
> ISBN-10 to ISBN-13, which in fact is identical to the EAN, we'd end up
> with
> the same style of numbers for all objects, regardless of format (book,
> CD,
> DVD and so on). All pictures would be stored by their EAN-code.
>
> /Anders

--
Lynn Reynish
ILS Librarian
Regina Public Library
lreynish <at> reginalibrary.ca
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Karen Coyle | 14 Dec 15:57

Re: Laundry list for NGC

Except for the ISBN, the UPC/EAN code isn't always stored in
bibliographic records created in the US. The numbers that are stored for
CDs are the publisher numbers ("Philips 422 416-2") and they are not
entered in a consistent format, unfortunately. UPC/EANs do seem to be
showing up on newer CD records. So getting a link to CDs is going to
take some thought. (I looked on Amazon, and CDs seem to be identified
only by the ASIN, which Amazon assigns when there isn't another reliable
identifier.)

I imagine that DVDs will be equally difficult.

kc

Lynn Reynish wrote:
> Hmmmm.... UPC/EAN-code may indeed be an alternative. It would certainly
> be no worse than an ISBN.
>
> Lynn
>
> Anders Ringnér wrote:
>> From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
>>> This does sound like a great project. However, I will note that ISBN is
>>> probably not enough if you want to include CDs and DVDs - most of which
>>> don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these items but I'm not
>>> sure if
>>> there are any widespread standard numbers in use for CDs or DVDs
>>> outside
>>> of mainstream Western classical/pop/rock music (which often has a music
>>> number). ISBNs have their own problems of course - but at least they
>>> exist
>>> for a lot of items.
>>
>> Would using the UPC/EAN-code be an alternative? If we then converted all
>> ISBN-10 to ISBN-13, which in fact is identical to the EAN, we'd end up
>> with
>> the same style of numbers for all objects, regardless of format (book,
>> CD,
>> DVD and so on). All pictures would be stored by their EAN-code.
>>
>> /Anders
>
> --
> Lynn Reynish
> ILS Librarian
> Regina Public Library
> lreynish <at> reginalibrary.ca
>
>

--
-----------------------------------
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234
------------------------------------
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Tim Spalding | 14 Dec 16:41

Re: Laundry list for NGC

I think CDs and DVDs might be biting off too much. So long as there's
no deep problem with adding them later, what's lost if we start with
books? What's new and interesting here is the idea of community
participation and open data. Karen's post—new info to me,
thanks!—shows there might be problems matching CD and DVD covers to
library data. Can't we explore what's new with books alone?

Tim

On 12/14/06, Karen Coyle <kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net> wrote:
> Except for the ISBN, the UPC/EAN code isn't always stored in
> bibliographic records created in the US. The numbers that are stored for
> CDs are the publisher numbers ("Philips 422 416-2") and they are not
> entered in a consistent format, unfortunately. UPC/EANs do seem to be
> showing up on newer CD records. So getting a link to CDs is going to
> take some thought. (I looked on Amazon, and CDs seem to be identified
> only by the ASIN, which Amazon assigns when there isn't another reliable
> identifier.)
>
> I imagine that DVDs will be equally difficult.
>
> kc
>
> Lynn Reynish wrote:
> > Hmmmm.... UPC/EAN-code may indeed be an alternative. It would certainly
> > be no worse than an ISBN.
> >
> > Lynn
> >
> > Anders Ringnér wrote:
> >> From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
> >>> This does sound like a great project. However, I will note that ISBN is
> >>> probably not enough if you want to include CDs and DVDs - most of which
> >>> don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these items but I'm not
> >>> sure if
> >>> there are any widespread standard numbers in use for CDs or DVDs
> >>> outside
> >>> of mainstream Western classical/pop/rock music (which often has a music
> >>> number). ISBNs have their own problems of course - but at least they
> >>> exist
> >>> for a lot of items.
> >>
> >> Would using the UPC/EAN-code be an alternative? If we then converted all
> >> ISBN-10 to ISBN-13, which in fact is identical to the EAN, we'd end up
> >> with
> >> the same style of numbers for all objects, regardless of format (book,
> >> CD,
> >> DVD and so on). All pictures would be stored by their EAN-code.
> >>
> >> /Anders
> >
> > --
> > Lynn Reynish
> > ILS Librarian
> > Regina Public Library
> > lreynish <at> reginalibrary.ca
> >
> >
>
> --
> -----------------------------------
> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
> ph.: 510-540-7596
> fx.: 510-848-3913
> mo.: 510-435-8234
> ------------------------------------
>
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Paul Miller | 14 Dec 16:54

Re: Laundry list for NGC

Agreed.  An open pool of cover data is a big enough - and important enough -
job to be going on with.

Let's not bite off more than we can chew... But keep an open mind about
cracking the CD/DVD identification issues down the line and adding them in
then.  There *are* various IS*N codes that would apply to these media... but
none are so widely deployed (yet) as the ISBN.

On 14/12/06 15:41, Tim Spalding wrote:

> I think CDs and DVDs might be biting off too much. So long as there's
> no deep problem with adding them later, what's lost if we start with
> books? What's new and interesting here is the idea of community
> participation and open data. Karen's post<new info to me,
> thanks!<shows there might be problems matching CD and DVD covers to
> library data. Can't we explore what's new with books alone?
>
> Tim
>
> On 12/14/06, Karen Coyle <kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net> wrote:
>> Except for the ISBN, the UPC/EAN code isn't always stored in
>> bibliographic records created in the US. The numbers that are stored for
>> CDs are the publisher numbers ("Philips 422 416-2") and they are not
>> entered in a consistent format, unfortunately. UPC/EANs do seem to be
>> showing up on newer CD records. So getting a link to CDs is going to
>> take some thought. (I looked on Amazon, and CDs seem to be identified
>> only by the ASIN, which Amazon assigns when there isn't another reliable
>> identifier.)
>>
>> I imagine that DVDs will be equally difficult.
>>
>> kc
>>
>> Lynn Reynish wrote:
>>> Hmmmm.... UPC/EAN-code may indeed be an alternative. It would certainly
>>> be no worse than an ISBN.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> Anders Ringnér wrote:
>>>> From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
>>>>> This does sound like a great project. However, I will note that ISBN is
>>>>> probably not enough if you want to include CDs and DVDs - most of which
>>>>> don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these items but I'm not
>>>>> sure if
>>>>> there are any widespread standard numbers in use for CDs or DVDs
>>>>> outside
>>>>> of mainstream Western classical/pop/rock music (which often has a music
>>>>> number). ISBNs have their own problems of course - but at least they
>>>>> exist
>>>>> for a lot of items.
>>>>
>>>> Would using the UPC/EAN-code be an alternative? If we then converted all
>>>> ISBN-10 to ISBN-13, which in fact is identical to the EAN, we'd end up
>>>> with
>>>> the same style of numbers for all objects, regardless of format (book,
>>>> CD,
>>>> DVD and so on). All pictures would be stored by their EAN-code.
>>>>
>>>> /Anders
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lynn Reynish
>>> ILS Librarian
>>> Regina Public Library
>>> lreynish <at> reginalibrary.ca
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> -----------------------------------
>> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
>> kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
>> ph.: 510-540-7596
>> fx.: 510-848-3913
>> mo.: 510-435-8234
>> ------------------------------------
>>

--
Dr Paul Miller
Senior Manager & Technology Evangelist, Talis
w: www.talis.com/       m: +44 (7769) 740083
im: talis_paul <at> mac.com [AIM, MSN and iChat]
skype: napm1971
--

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Dobbs, Aaron | 14 Dec 23:13

Re: Laundry list for NGC

Tis better to do what needs to be done and ask for forgiveness later than to ask permission and not get 'r dun.

(The first part is from Admiral Grace Hopper, the last part is a paraphrase because I don't remember how she
said it to my graduating HS class several decades ago)

-Aaron
:-)'

PS Go, Tim, Go!

-----Original Message-----
From: Next generation catalogs for libraries [mailto:NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Tim Spalding
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:41 AM
To: NGC4LIB <at> listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Laundry list for NGC

I think CDs and DVDs might be biting off too much. So long as there's no deep problem with adding them later,
what's lost if we start with books? What's new and interesting here is the idea of community participation
and open data. Karen's post-new info to me, thanks!-shows there might be problems matching CD and DVD
covers to library data. Can't we explore what's new with books alone?

Tim

On 12/14/06, Karen Coyle <kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net> wrote:
> Except for the ISBN, the UPC/EAN code isn't always stored in
> bibliographic records created in the US. The numbers that are stored
> for CDs are the publisher numbers ("Philips 422 416-2") and they are
> not entered in a consistent format, unfortunately. UPC/EANs do seem to
> be showing up on newer CD records. So getting a link to CDs is going
> to take some thought. (I looked on Amazon, and CDs seem to be
> identified only by the ASIN, which Amazon assigns when there isn't
> another reliable
> identifier.)
>
> I imagine that DVDs will be equally difficult.
>
> kc
>
> Lynn Reynish wrote:
> > Hmmmm.... UPC/EAN-code may indeed be an alternative. It would
> > certainly be no worse than an ISBN.
> >
> > Lynn
> >
> > Anders Ringnér wrote:
> >> From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
> >>> This does sound like a great project. However, I will note that
> >>> ISBN is probably not enough if you want to include CDs and DVDs -
> >>> most of which don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these
> >>> items but I'm not sure if there are any widespread standard
> >>> numbers in use for CDs or DVDs outside of mainstream Western
> >>> classical/pop/rock music (which often has a music number). ISBNs
> >>> have their own problems of course - but at least they exist for a
> >>> lot of items.
> >>
> >> Would using the UPC/EAN-code be an alternative? If we then
> >> converted all ISBN-10 to ISBN-13, which in fact is identical to the
> >> EAN, we'd end up with the same style of numbers for all objects,
> >> regardless of format (book, CD, DVD and so on). All pictures would
> >> be stored by their EAN-code.
> >>
> >> /Anders
> >
> > --
> > Lynn Reynish
> > ILS Librarian
> > Regina Public Library
> > lreynish <at> reginalibrary.ca
> >
> >
>
> --
> -----------------------------------
> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net
> http://www.kcoyle.net
> ph.: 510-540-7596
> fx.: 510-848-3913
> mo.: 510-435-8234
> ------------------------------------
>
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Anders Ringnér | 14 Dec 16:45

SV: Re: [NGC4LIB] Laundry list for NGC

I agree with Karen. Concistency is of great importance.
Publisher numbers are problematic in that way.

I don't know how finicky OCLC are, but if they allow
records to be upgraded with EAN/UPC, that would be the best
solution. If not, one could, using a bar code scanner,
easily upgrade local records with EAN/UPC.

The most important point is that EAN/UPC will be exactly
the same as the ISBN from January 1st. Then we could use
the same identifier for (almost) all new media.

--- Karen Coyle <kcoyle <at> KCOYLE.NET> skrev:

> Except for the ISBN, the UPC/EAN code isn't always stored
> in
> bibliographic records created in the US. The numbers that
> are stored for
> CDs are the publisher numbers ("Philips 422 416-2") and
> they are not
> entered in a consistent format, unfortunately. UPC/EANs
> do seem to be
> showing up on newer CD records. So getting a link to CDs
> is going to
> take some thought. (I looked on Amazon, and CDs seem to
> be identified
> only by the ASIN, which Amazon assigns when there isn't
> another reliable
> identifier.)
>
> I imagine that DVDs will be equally difficult.
>
> kc
>
> Lynn Reynish wrote:
> > Hmmmm.... UPC/EAN-code may indeed be an alternative. It
> would certainly
> > be no worse than an ISBN.
> >
> > Lynn
> >
> > Anders Ringnér wrote:
> >> From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
> >>> This does sound like a great project. However, I will
> note that ISBN is
> >>> probably not enough if you want to include CDs and
> DVDs - most of which
> >>> don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these items
> but I'm not
> >>> sure if
> >>> there are any widespread standard numbers in use for
> CDs or DVDs
> >>> outside
> >>> of mainstream Western classical/pop/rock music (which
> often has a music
> >>> number). ISBNs have their own problems of course -
> but at least they
> >>> exist
> >>> for a lot of items.
> >>
> >> Would using the UPC/EAN-code be an alternative? If we
> then converted all
> >> ISBN-10 to ISBN-13, which in fact is identical to the
> EAN, we'd end up
> >> with
> >> the same style of numbers for all objects, regardless
> of format (book,
> >> CD,
> >> DVD and so on). All pictures would be stored by their
> EAN-code.
> >>
> >> /Anders
> >
> > --
> > Lynn Reynish
> > ILS Librarian
> > Regina Public Library
> > lreynish <at> reginalibrary.ca
> >
> >
>
> --
> -----------------------------------
> Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
> ph.: 510-540-7596
> fx.: 510-848-3913
> mo.: 510-435-8234
> ------------------------------------
>

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Tim Spalding | 14 Dec 16:55

Re: Laundry list for NGC

Well, EAN/UPCs are already the same as ISBNs on a mathematical
level—you can transform in either direction without loss.

Does anyone know the rules about EAN/UPC changes? The problem with
ISBNs is that you don't need to change the ISBN when you change the
cover. It's about the inside of the book. So you get one ISBN with 2
or more covers. How does it work with video and DVDs?

On 12/14/06, Anders Ringnér <ringner <at> yahoo.se> wrote:
> I agree with Karen. Concistency is of great importance.
> Publisher numbers are problematic in that way.
>
> I don't know how finicky OCLC are, but if they allow
> records to be upgraded with EAN/UPC, that would be the best
> solution. If not, one could, using a bar code scanner,
> easily upgrade local records with EAN/UPC.
>
> The most important point is that EAN/UPC will be exactly
> the same as the ISBN from January 1st. Then we could use
> the same identifier for (almost) all new media.
>
> --- Karen Coyle <kcoyle <at> KCOYLE.NET> skrev:
>
> > Except for the ISBN, the UPC/EAN code isn't always stored
> > in
> > bibliographic records created in the US. The numbers that
> > are stored for
> > CDs are the publisher numbers ("Philips 422 416-2") and
> > they are not
> > entered in a consistent format, unfortunately. UPC/EANs
> > do seem to be
> > showing up on newer CD records. So getting a link to CDs
> > is going to
> > take some thought. (I looked on Amazon, and CDs seem to
> > be identified
> > only by the ASIN, which Amazon assigns when there isn't
> > another reliable
> > identifier.)
> >
> > I imagine that DVDs will be equally difficult.
> >
> > kc
> >
> > Lynn Reynish wrote:
> > > Hmmmm.... UPC/EAN-code may indeed be an alternative. It
> > would certainly
> > > be no worse than an ISBN.
> > >
> > > Lynn
> > >
> > > Anders Ringnér wrote:
> > >> From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
> > >>> This does sound like a great project. However, I will
> > note that ISBN is
> > >>> probably not enough if you want to include CDs and
> > DVDs - most of which
> > >>> don't have ISBNs. Amazon uses an ASIN for these items
> > but I'm not
> > >>> sure if
> > >>> there are any widespread standard numbers in use for
> > CDs or DVDs
> > >>> outside
> > >>> of mainstream Western classical/pop/rock music (which
> > often has a music
> > >>> number). ISBNs have their own problems of course -
> > but at least they
> > >>> exist
> > >>> for a lot of items.
> > >>
> > >> Would using the UPC/EAN-code be an alternative? If we
> > then converted all
> > >> ISBN-10 to ISBN-13, which in fact is identical to the
> > EAN, we'd end up
> > >> with
> > >> the same style of numbers for all objects, regardless
> > of format (book,
> > >> CD,
> > >> DVD and so on). All pictures would be stored by their
> > EAN-code.
> > >>
> > >> /Anders
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lynn Reynish
> > > ILS Librarian
> > > Regina Public Library
> > > lreynish <at> reginalibrary.ca
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > -----------------------------------
> > Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
> > kcoyle <at> kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net
> > ph.: 510-540-7596
> > fx.: 510-848-3913
> > mo.: 510-435-8234
> > ------------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
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Diane I. Hillmann | 15 Dec 01:32

Re: Laundry list for NGC

I think this exchange points up the fallacy that
we'll be able to specify an "ideal" identifier.
My suspicion is that instead we'll have to come
up with a multi-pronged approach whereby whatever
identifying numbers we have available are used,
and the identification systems themselves are
part of the deal and specified unambiguously.  So
I think we might stop searching for something
that is the all encompassing "standard" and
settle for a number with it's numbering system
identified. It's likely that we'll be dealing
with "de facto" standards for a long time to come.

Diane

>Except for the ISBN, the UPC/EAN code isn't always stored in
>bibliographic records created in the US. The numbers that are stored for
>CDs are the publisher numbers ("Philips 422 416-2") and they are not
>entered in a consistent format, unfortunately. UPC/EANs do seem to be
>showing up on newer CD records. So getting a link to CDs is going to
>take some thought. (I looked on Amazon, and CDs seem to be identified
>only by the ASIN, which Amazon assigns when there isn't another reliable
>identifier.)
>
>I imagine that DVDs will be equally difficult.
>
>kc
>
>Lynn Reynish wrote:
>>Hmmmm.... UPC/EAN-code may indeed be an alternative. It would certainly
>>be no worse than an ISBN.
>>
>>Lynn
>>
>>Anders Ringnér wrote:
>>>From: "Lynn Reynish" <lreynish <at> RPL.REGINA.SK.CA>
>>>>This does sound like a great project. However, I will note that ISBN is
>>>>probably not enough if you want to include