Roger Smith | 5 Jun 04:06 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-rent ebooks

The other part of the equation is the rare book dealers and ebay which allow one to find the books that we read
as kids, that are no longer in print.
Roger

At 5/30/2002 10:14 AM, you wrote:

>>Why would I need a book rental shop when I've got my local library?
>
>Libraries and bookstores complement each other.
>
>VIDEOS: Videostores rent the newest Hollywood stuff. Though videostores
>have some documentaries, classics, Masterpiece Theater stuff, libraries
>usually have more.
>
>BOOKS: Bookstores usually have enough of the newest stuff so everyone who
>must have a copy can buy one.
>At libraries the newest, most popular books are available, but there is a
>waiting list for the few copies the library has purchased.
>Libraries have lots of out-of-print stuff. If you discover an author your
>really like and want to read everything that author has written, the
>library is the place to go. If that specific library doesn't have it, they
>can borrow it from another library using interlibrary loan.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chris Rippel
>Central Kansas Library System
>1409 Wiliams
>Great Bend, Kansas 67530
>620-792-4865 (voice)
(Continue reading)

Michael Hart | 5 Jun 16:26 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING


On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Roger Smith wrote:

> The other part of the equation is the rare book dealers and ebay which allow
> one to find the books that we read as kids, that are no longer in print.
> Roger

I worry that 100 years from now that 99% of foods will be GMO's [Genetically
Manipulated/Manufactured Organisms] and hence under copyright. . .and this
will enforce a copyright-powered hunger/starvation/malnutrition of the body
just as current copyright extensions are powering such for the mind.

The goal of WIPO is that EVERYTHING should HAVE to be paid for, plus a
royalty for the intellectual property. . .at a time when everyone COULD
have everything pretty much free of charge from replicator technology.

100 years ago the atom-powered Nautilus and atomic bomb were fiction,
only 50 years later the Nautilus was being built, and it sailed into
my own home town and their crew came to my school. . . .

Do you REALLY think it won't be even more different in the future?

But WIPO still wants to charge hugely for replicated food, just as
it does for replicated books.

Thank you!

So nice to hear from you!

Michael S. Hart
(Continue reading)

Ghost Cat | 5 Jun 19:24 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

Science came to the end of its power. Think of it as a saturation or an
equilibrium. The further progress will require too much energy. There will
be no replicators and "beam me up Scotty". Ask any physicist and he will
tell you that they see no more room for progress. Thermonuclear power
station are as far from being reality as they were 25 years ago. From now on
the only materialistic way of progress is to improve the efficiency.

Farmers get 2.5 cents a pound and you pay 50 cents a pound in the store.
Thus the efficiency of current distribution system is 5%.

It all comes from desire to control everything. Plus in the modern world the
cost of living is not dictated by food but rather by comfort and
entertainment. Farmers are forced to compete with the industrial income
levels. To buy a TV one must produce at least a ten thousand pounds of
potato-enough to feed all your family including distant relatives and
probably all friends for a year. Then another ten thousand pounds to pay
property taxes. A few more to pay utility bills. Then comes car, clothing
etc. Health insurance weights a few truckloads of potato. Just think of it,
to make $40K a year one must produce 1,600,000 pounds of potato. One and a
half million pounds which is enough to feed a small village of few hundred
families must be produced by one family!

And that's gross profit, before all business expenses. That means minimum
100 acres at average yield. That's enough work for a big family from the
dawn until dusk.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hart" <hart@...>
To: <ebook-community@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:26 AM
(Continue reading)

Michael Hart | 9 Jun 18:05 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING


On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Ghost Cat wrote:

> Science came to the end of its power. Think of it as a saturation or an
> equilibrium. The further progress will require too much energy. There will
> be no replicators and "beam me up Scotty". Ask any physicist and he will
> tell you that they see no more room for progress. Thermonuclear power
> station are as far from being reality as they were 25 years ago. From now on
> the only materialistic way of progress is to improve the efficiency.

Remember when "Our Friend The Atom" told us there would be:

"Electricity Too Cheap To Meter?"

However, solar, wind and tide power can be used for all the power we want,
THEY just don't want to promote it because it's too much like:

"Electricity Too Cheap To Meter"

There is a true conspiracy to make sure EVERYTHING we consumed is metered,
billed, taxed, etc. . . .

THEY fear nothing more than people who don't NEED what THEY sell. . . !

> Farmers get 2.5 cents a pound and you pay 50 cents a pound in the store.
> Thus the efficiency of current distribution system is 5%.

The speculators at the Mercantile Exchange, etc., make far more per train
car load than the farmers do. . .so do the grocers, even though they only
mark up things an average of 11%. . .so I was told by a trusted friend
(Continue reading)

Ghost Cat | 10 Jun 18:47 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

I don't think that there is a big need in copyright protection in order to
control food production. The institute of land ownership does it just fine
for centuries. Those people who die from hunger mostly die not because of
the bad land but because they have no land at all. Or because the guys with
the guns came and took away all food.

On another hand it is possible that the modern governments are looking for
more efficient ways to collect their share. After all it was proved that the
slave labor is not the most productive.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hart" <hart@...>

> When foods are invented that will grow in terrible land, terrible weather,
> among ferocious insects, etc., they will be illegal to copy for the very
> people that need them the most. . . .
>
> Virtually every one of those people will be dead before it is legal. . . .
>
> And I have a feeling their countries will be bought with the profits. . .
.
>
>
>
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(Continue reading)

Roger Smith | 6 Jun 02:36 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

I asked to physicists I know that work at a local University. They both got a good chuckle from your comment
below. They both said that "they do see room for progress". In fact one said, "incredible" progress. So I
think your statement may be a wee bit off base.
Roger

At 6/5/2002 12:24 PM, you wrote:
>Science came to the end of its power. Think of it as a saturation or an
>equilibrium. The further progress will require too much energy. There will
>be no replicators and "beam me up Scotty". Ask any physicist and he will
>tell you that they see no more room for progress.

Roger Smith - "The Map is not the Territory" 

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Ghost Cat | 6 Jun 02:58 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

I see a room for miracles.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Smith" <rogersmith@...>
To: <ebook-community@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ebook-community] Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

> I asked to physicists I know that work at a local University. They both
got a good chuckle from your comment below. They both said that "they do see
room for progress". In fact one said, "incredible" progress. So I think your
statement may be a wee bit off base.
> Roger
>
> At 6/5/2002 12:24 PM, you wrote:
> >Science came to the end of its power. Think of it as a saturation or an
> >equilibrium. The further progress will require too much energy. There
will
> >be no replicators and "beam me up Scotty". Ask any physicist and he will
> >tell you that they see no more room for progress.
>
> Roger Smith - "The Map is not the Territory"
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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(Continue reading)

Michael Hart | 6 Jun 16:20 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING


100 years ago splitting the atom was science fiction,
and Einstein was writing relativity equations that no
one would believe until a solar eclipse proved to the
non-eggheads that he was nearly exactly on target.

50 years ago we were just moving from fission to fusion.

A decade or two ago AT&T and IBM built their logos out
of individually placed atoms. . .the first "nanotechnology"
at the single atom level.

Today the average power bill is for enough power for whole
neighborhoods of 100 years ago.

Anyone who thinks progress is going to stop right here,
right now, may as well be out on the street with the sign:

"THE END IS NEAR!"

Because that's the only thing that's going to keep all
this from happening. . . .

Heck, even just a couple years ago no one believed me
when I said there would be add-on Terabytes for PCs
that were under $10,000. . . .

Heck, with 100g drives approaching $100, my prediction
now looks like it should never have raised an eyebrow.

(Continue reading)

Ghost Cat | 6 Jun 20:29 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

5 years ago it took me 14 sec to run 100 yards. 4 years ago - 12 sec. 3
years ago 11 sec. 2 years ago - 10.5 sec. 1 year ago -10.3 sec, today - 10.2
sec. My progress slowed down as you can see. I have personal limits. The
same goes for the society and the nature in general.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hart" <hart@...>
To: <ebook-community@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ebook-community] Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

>
> 100 years ago splitting the atom was science fiction,
> and Einstein was writing relativity equations that no
> one would believe until a solar eclipse proved to the
> non-eggheads that he was nearly exactly on target.
>
> 50 years ago we were just moving from fission to fusion.
>
> A decade or two ago AT&T and IBM built their logos out
> of individually placed atoms. . .the first "nanotechnology"
> at the single atom level.
>
> Today the average power bill is for enough power for whole
> neighborhoods of 100 years ago.
>
> Anyone who thinks progress is going to stop right here,
> right now, may as well be out on the street with the sign:
>
> "THE END IS NEAR!"
(Continue reading)

Cameron Dorey | 6 Jun 20:58 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

Ghost Cat wrote:
> 
> 5 years ago it took me 14 sec to run 100 yards. 4 years ago - 12 sec. 3
> years ago 11 sec. 2 years ago - 10.5 sec. 1 year ago -10.3 sec, today - 10.2
> sec. My progress slowed down as you can see. I have personal limits. The
> same goes for the society and the nature in general.

Hell, no, it's not. Have you ever heard of Moore's Law for computer
processor speed/power/number of transistors on a chip (of course you
have)? He predicted that things will double about every 2 years (later
modified to every 18 months). And that's been a pretty good estimate,
maybe a little conservative. This is known as an exponential curve.
Perhaps it will break down someday, but scientists are still making
advances which seem to always be pushing out the achievable limits 10
years or so.

Most (if not all) of science is like this, the amount of knowledge and
technological innovation is increasing exponentially, and there is no
end in sight. If you were to plot graphs of numbers of papers published,
say by the American Chemical Society, by year, there is no indication at
all of a rollover. And that's *not* because what is getting published
now is any less significant than what was published earlier. This is
only one example of many.

There is no reason why the science fiction of today will not become the
science of tomorrow. Just because we don't know how to do it yet,
doesn't mean we will never know how to do it. And this doesn't apply
only to science, but to every aspect of our lives. And just becasue you
don't believe it, doesn't mean that it's not true.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4105247,00.html
(Continue reading)

Ghost Cat | 6 Jun 22:10 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

Today's world reminds me a hi-end publishing house with the equipments that
is constantly improving and can print millions of pages a day. Only there is
nothing to print except of the printing equipment service manuals and the
printing technology research papers. All resources are being spent on
technological improvement - faster, cheaper and crispier printing. 3D
holographic printing is on the horizon, the whole printing press will fit a
shirt pocket but still... nobody even stops for a minute to think of what
exactly we are going to print and why.

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ksaundby | 7 Jun 01:38 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

Ghost Cat" <yahoo@...> wrote:
> Today's world reminds me a hi-end publishing house with the equipments
that
> is constantly improving and can print millions of pages a day. Only there
is
> nothing to print except of the printing equipment service manuals and the
> printing technology research papers. All resources are being spent on
> technological improvement - faster, cheaper and crispier printing. 3D
> holographic printing is on the horizon, the whole printing press will fit
a
> shirt pocket but still... nobody even stops for a minute to think of what
> exactly we are going to print and why.
________________________

Most independently published e-authors would give you an argument there.

Wasn't it Solomon who said, "Of the making of books, there is no end."? Or
words to that effect.

Freddie aka Kate Saundby
shippard@...
http://www.realmofnublis.com
http://double-dragon-ebooks.com/

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(Continue reading)

Ghost Cat | 7 Jun 01:43 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

I was not talking about books literally.

----- Original Message -----
From: "ksaundby" <shippard@...>
To: <ebook-community@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ebook-community] Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

> Ghost Cat" <yahoo@...> wrote:
> > Today's world reminds me a hi-end publishing house with the equipments
> that
> > is constantly improving and can print millions of pages a day. Only
there
> is
> > nothing to print except of the printing equipment service manuals and
the
> > printing technology research papers. All resources are being spent on
> > technological improvement - faster, cheaper and crispier printing. 3D
> > holographic printing is on the horizon, the whole printing press will
fit
> a
> > shirt pocket but still... nobody even stops for a minute to think of
what
> > exactly we are going to print and why.
> ________________________
>
> Most independently published e-authors would give you an argument there.
>
> Wasn't it Solomon who said, "Of the making of books, there is no end."? Or
> words to that effect.
(Continue reading)

Michael Hart | 9 Jun 17:42 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING


> Ghost Cat" <yahoo@...> wrote:
> > Today's world reminds me a hi-end publishing house with the equipments
> that
> > is constantly improving and can print millions of pages a day. Only there
> is
> > nothing to print except of the printing equipment service manuals and the
> > printing technology research papers. All resources are being spent on
> > technological improvement - faster, cheaper and crispier printing. 3D
> > holographic printing is on the horizon, the whole printing press will fit
> a
> > shirt pocket but still... nobody even stops for a minute to think of what
> > exactly we are going to print and why.

The changes of a century ago, with the steam and electric powered presses
were just as intense to the residents of that era as this will be whenever.

Books literally FLEW of these new presses, and the response was to double
copyright periods to eliminate the THREAT of these new presses being used
outside Ye Olde Boye Networke. . . .

Expect that to be tried again, unless the US Supreme Court decides to
overturn Bono in Eldred v. Ashcroft this Fall. . . .

Let's face it, until the government declares such copyrigt extensions
to be illegal, they are going to continue to the point where literally
nothing is in the public domain, percentagewise, and perhaps nothing at
all that isn't a century or two old. . . .

A TRUE Dark Age. . . .
(Continue reading)

Jim Drew | 10 Jun 01:20 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

From: Michael Hart <hart@...>

>Books literally FLEW of these new presses, [...]

I always love ridiculous phrasings like that!  They had wings?  Nifty 
presses, those!  <grin>
--

-- 

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Jim Drew		    Seattle, WA		       ciaopubs@...

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Trabar | 10 Jun 01:51 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

Hey, I've had books practically jump off the shelves when the
Universe decides I'm supposed to read them but none have
"flown" at me -- might be a fun experience (huge grin here).

Judith
Free eBooks & so much more!
http://www.agoodread.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Drew" <ciaopubs@...>
To: <ebook-community@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ebook-community] Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

From: Michael Hart <hart@...>

>Books literally FLEW of these new presses, [...]

I always love ridiculous phrasings like that!  They had wings?
Nifty
presses, those!  <grin>
--

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mtrskater | 10 Jun 03:00 2002

Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

--- In ebook-community@..., Jim Drew <ciaopubs <at> e...> wrote:
> From: Michael Hart <hart@...>
> 
> >Books literally FLEW of these new presses, [...]
> 
> I always love ridiculous phrasings like that!  They had wings?  
Nifty 
> presses, those!  <grin>

Naa, was probably just a misadjustment in the piston which 
pushed the finished book out of the binding machine.  Think 
trapeze, not bird :-)

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Michael Hart | 10 Jun 18:44 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING


On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, mtrskater wrote:

> --- In ebook-community@..., Jim Drew <ciaopubs <at> e...> wrote:
> > From: Michael Hart <hart@...>
> >
> > >Books literally FLEW of these new presses, [...]
> >
> > I always love ridiculous phrasings like that!  They had wings?
> Nifty
> > presses, those!  <grin>
>
> Naa, was probably just a misadjustment in the piston which
> pushed the finished book out of the binding machine.  Think
> trapeze, not bird :-)

As I recall, these new power sources were literally so much
more powerful than the previous waterwheel [and lesser] power
supplies that care actually had to be taken that the books
didn't actually fly like a bird. . . .

Michael

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Ghost Cat | 6 Jun 22:36 2002

Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

I also heard about Newton and Einstein. And about Bell curve. The very
beginning of the Bell curve looks just like an exponential curve but then
thing change. I am going to tell my grandchildren to invest in bicycle
manufacturing. There will be very big demand on bicycles in about 25-30
years. Probably they won't listen. Thanks God, I live in Kentucky. We don't
need no stinking bicycles. We have horses.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Dorey" <camerond@...>
To: <ebook-community@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ebook-community] Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING

> Ghost Cat wrote:
> >
> > 5 years ago it took me 14 sec to run 100 yards. 4 years ago - 12 sec. 3
> > years ago 11 sec. 2 years ago - 10.5 sec. 1 year ago -10.3 sec, today -
10.2
> > sec. My progress slowed down as you can see. I have personal limits. The
> > same goes for the society and the nature in general.
>
> Hell, no, it's not. Have you ever heard of Moore's Law for computer
> processor speed/power/number of transistors on a chip (of course you
> have)? He predicted that things will double about every 2 years (later
> modified to every 18 months). And that's been a pretty good estimate,
> maybe a little conservative. This is known as an exponential curve.
> Perhaps it will break down someday, but scientists are still making
> advances which seem to always be pushing out the achievable limits 10
> years or so.
>
(Continue reading)

Michael Hart | 6 Jun 23:06 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING


On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Ghost Cat wrote:

> I also heard about Newton and Einstein. And about Bell curve. The very
> beginning of the Bell curve looks just like an exponential curve but then
> thing change. I am going to tell my grandchildren to invest in bicycle
> manufacturing. There will be very big demand on bicycles in about 25-30
> years. Probably they won't listen. Thanks God, I live in Kentucky. We don't
> need no stinking bicycles. We have horses.

Hayburners. . .Greenhouse Gases. . . .

The only real curve to worry about is the population bomb. . . .

The first time I looked at the population there were only 2.x billion.

Now 6.x

They say it will never get to 10.x. . . .

However, as for inventions. . .I subscribe to no such limits. . . .

Prepare to send subspace messages. . . .

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Michael Hart | 6 Jun 22:28 2002
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Re: Re: Pay-to-Use EVERYTHING


> Ghost Cat wrote:
> >
> > 5 years ago it took me 14 sec to run 100 yards. 4 years ago - 12 sec. 3
> > years ago 11 sec. 2 years ago - 10.5 sec. 1 year ago -10.3 sec, today - 10.2
> > sec. My progress slowed down as you can see. I have personal limits. The
> > same goes for the society and the nature in general.

Have you considred that Ghost Cat may just be another one of those wannabe
apprentice baiters. . . ?

Not to mention that society replenishes itslef with yourger more vibrant minds
on a daily basis, and those minds don't know that it can't be done. . . .

A people cannot hope to be both ignorant & free.
Thomas Jefferson

The person who says it cannot be done
Should not interrupt the person doing it.
Ancient Chinese Proverb

The person who says something can't be done,
is often interrupted by someone doing it.

If we all did the things we are capable of doing,
we would literally astound ourselves.  Thomas Edison

"Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's
original, you will have to ram it down their throats."
Howard Aiken
(Continue reading)


Gmane