Michael Shepherd | 20 Jul 2012 23:44
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getting fruit stains out of stone

All,
I foolishly left my cut stones outside underneath a neighbors flowering
crab apple tree. Some stupid tiny crab apple (I think its a crab apple
tree, some fruit tree of some sort) fell onto the stones and now there is a
huge stain on the stone. I tried sanding it down some, but its over 100F
outside and the stone was directly in the sun. When the fruit fell it
splattered and instantly cooked into the porous stone. Someone recommended
bleach, but I don't buy just trying a chemical approach first time out. I
am tempted to let it sit in the bathtub under water and scrub with a nylon
toothbrush etc. Any ideas how to remove this type of stain?

It's on a block on Indiana Limestone.

- Mike

 
Angela Treat Lyon | 21 Jul 2012 00:24

Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

actually, I've tried bleach on limestone before - here in Hawaii I get green mold on the piece in my garden -
and it works great. 

I'm really careful not to let any bleach go down to the ground or on the plants - it doesn't hurt the stone at all
and gets rid of stains and mold very well. 

you can even do 50-50 water/bleach and it will still work.

I've tried other stuff but nothing works as well.

aloha,
Angela

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Angela Treat Lyon

http://ArtbyLyon.com
http://Lyon-Art.com
http://PrintsbyLyon.com

http://AngelaTreatLyon.com
808-261-0940

--- michael.shepherd@... wrote:

From: Michael Shepherd <michael.shepherd@...>
To: stone@...
Subject: [stone] getting fruit stains out of stone
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:44:22 -0600
(Continue reading)

Martin Smith | 21 Jul 2012 00:39

Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

I'm no chemist, but one thing strikes me: limestone - alkaline (or base, as they call it these days); fruit
juice - acid: so there's a chemical reaction there? It's not just a question of washing it off? I claim no
expertise, but I'd guess the affected stone needs to be removed.

If this is wrong, I'd like to know.

Martin
On 20 Jul 2012, at 22:44, Michael Shepherd wrote:

> When the fruit fell it
> splattered and instantly cooked into the porous stone. Someone recommended
> bleach, but I don't buy just trying a chemical approach first time out. I
> am tempted to let it sit in the bathtub under water and scrub with a nylon
> toothbrush etc. 

Clive Murray-White | 21 Jul 2012 01:10
Favicon

Re: getting fruit stains out of stone


I use this, Finalit No. 1

http://www.hoskindiamond.com.au/prod3222.htm

I'm sure it's available in your part of the world - if this Finalit product
is not right for fruit stains talk/email the supplier for advice, because
this is a serious pro line of products you will get the correct advice from
the suppliers.

http://murray-white.blogspot.com.au/2011_03_01_archive.html

Here is a picture of it in use. Excellent product thoroughly recommended. 

Clive

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Smith [mailto:martin.a.smith@...] 
Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2012 8:39 AM
To: stone@...
Subject: [stone] Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

I'm no chemist, but one thing strikes me: limestone - alkaline (or base, as
they call it these days); fruit juice - acid: so there's a chemical reaction
there? It's not just a question of washing it off? I claim no expertise, but
I'd guess the affected stone needs to be removed.

If this is wrong, I'd like to know.

Martin
(Continue reading)

fshopen@gmail.com | 21 Jul 2012 02:04
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

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Clive Murray-White | 21 Jul 2012 02:41
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Very helpful!

-----Original Message-----
From: fshopen@...
[mailto:fshopen@...] 
Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2012 10:04 AM
To: stone@...
Subject: [stone] Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

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Jeff Watson | 21 Jul 2012 03:54
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Thanks Frank,
How to get stains out of your hieroglyphics I presume!
Or maybe a product to eliminate graffiti???
Jeff
On 2012-07-20, at 8:41 PM, Clive Murray-White wrote:

> Very helpful!
> 
> 
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鮇nr 2  " X  ^r  y Zv  y   ^  i '   m    k      {  
> 

Jeff ( Guv) Watson
150, bord de l'Eau Est,
Longueuil, Qc. J4H 1A1
jeff.watson@...
www.sculpturejeffwatson.com
(450) 674-6222 Phone
(514) 755-9428 Mobile

 
fshopen@gmail.com | 21 Jul 2012 05:19
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

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Joe Xuereb | 21 Jul 2012 10:03

Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Tough so far I had never experience of removing fruit stains yet I can
confirm whatever Angela has recommended that is about the use of normal
washing clothes bleach. Using it on very soft limestone,  the bleach can
remove easily any green or dry grey mould. I have tried it and it worked
wonderfully.

Joe Xuereb

Tel / Fax: (00356) 21553559

Email:  <mailto:info@...> info@...

Website:  <http://www.joexuereb.com> www.joexuereb.com

actually, I've tried bleach on limestone before - here in Hawaii I get green
mold on the piece in my garden - and it works great. 

I'm really careful not to let any bleach go down to the ground or on the
plants - it doesn't hurt the stone at all and gets rid of stains and mold
very well. 

you can even do 50-50 water/bleach and it will still work.

I've tried other stuff but nothing works as well.

aloha,

Angela

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(Continue reading)

GLENN E FREIDLINE | 23 Jul 2012 04:36
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Favicon

Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Michael,
There is a stain removal guide at this link:  http://www.ntc-stone.com/order.php?page!
Sorry that they charge for this now.  It is something that all stone people should be at least aware of.
I have the guide and it says do not use bleach on limestone because it contains sodium hypochlorite which is
an acid and can etch.  It might also lighten the stone.  
For apple stains, it says to clean the stains with soap and cold water.  A stone cleaner soap would be good.  If
that doesn't work then use a poultice with poultice powder and 20-50% hydrogen peroxide.  The above
website explains what a poltice is.  It seems like I remember that the hydrogen peroxide at that
concentration can be bought at beauty supply stores.

Glenn
 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:44:22 -0600
 Subject: [stone] getting fruit stains out of stone
From: michael.shepherd@...
 To: stone@...

 All,
I foolishly left my cut stones outside underneath a neighbors flowering
 crab apple tree. Some stupid tiny crab apple (I think its a crab apple
 tree, some fruit tree of some sort) fell onto the stones and now there is a
 huge stain on the stone. I tried sanding it down some, but its over 100F
 outside and the stone was directly in the sun. When the fruit fell it
 splattered and instantly cooked into the porous stone. Someone recommended
 bleach, but I don't buy just trying a chemical approach first time out. I
 am tempted to let it sit in the bathtub under water and scrub with a nylon
 toothbrush etc. Any ideas how to remove this type of stain?

 It's on a block on Indiana Limestone.

 - Mike
(Continue reading)

Michael Shepherd | 23 Jul 2012 06:20
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Glenn,
Thanks, I was able to get rid of about 60 to 70 percent of the the damage
with just water and a little sanding. I will try and get some stone stain
cleaner. I am uncertain exactly if this is an apple tree or what particular
berry fell on this stone. It has left a dark purple mark, that is for
certain, I will let you know how it goes with the stone soap or I will make
a poltice. Thanks for the link.

Thanks to all.

- Mike

 
leaper man | 23 Jul 2012 21:28
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Have you ever thought of incorporating the stain into what you planned to make it?
Just asking.
--- On Sun, 7/22/12, Michael Shepherd <michael.shepherd@...> wrote:

From: Michael Shepherd <michael.shepherd@...>
Subject: [stone] Re: getting fruit stains out of stone
To: stone@...
Date: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 9:20 PM

Glenn,
Thanks, I was able to get rid of about 60 to 70 percent of the the damage
with just water and a little sanding. I will try and get some stone stain
cleaner. I am uncertain exactly if this is an apple tree or what particular
berry fell on this stone. It has left a dark purple mark, that is for
certain, I will let you know how it goes with the stone soap or I will make
a poltice. Thanks for the link.

Thanks to all.

- Mike

 
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Michael Shepherd | 23 Jul 2012 21:53
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

In this particular case I don't believe it would work well at all. I
am making another arched widow where everything lines up perfectly
etc, and the stain is on one of the arch stones (voussiors) already
made. I'm not sure what a limestone window would look like with random
purple bloches all over, but it's not something I am willing to
explore, given the extreme amount of time invested thus far in cutting
all the pieces.

I am going to try one of the recommendations in the stain removal
guide, first, and see how it goes. I may need to apply it multiple
times, but it's worth a shot.

- Mike

Don Dougan | 24 Jul 2012 04:53
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Michael,
Fruit stains are acid and will etch to some degree as well as 'dying' the
stone if colors are present from berries, etc.  The color can be removed
most of the time by applying a poultice.  Most often I have used a poultice
made simply of baking soda and water into a paste, covering with plastic
wrap (Saran Wrap, etc.) so the poultice dries slowly and pulls-out the
discoloration.  May have to apply the poultice a couple of times.  The
acid-etched texture will not be removed except by re-sanding and (if
marble) repolishing.  For major staining on the surface I clean the stone
(limestones and marbles) with muriatic acid like you buy from swimming-pool
cleaner suppliers.  I usually use it full strength (20 percent solution in
the bottle) on a pre-dampened stone with a bristle brush and scrub the
surface.  This DOES etch the surface of the stone and WILL require
re-sanding/polishing/tooling of ALL areas it touches.  If you have cuts or
mosquito bites on your hands the acid will sting like the devil, but
rinsing in water will take care of it.  Always have the hose handy when
working with acid, and never do it in the rain (the vapors just sit in the
air and make it hard to breathe comfortably).  DO NOT store the acid
container indoors or all your steel tools will soon have a fine coating of
rust from the vapors that escape from even a tightly-closed acid bottle.

The depth of the stain will depend upon the porosity of the stone, and some
kinds of stains (like soil stains when in contact with the earth for an
extended period of time) will be nearly impossible to remove with a
poultice or even with muriatic acid.  I have pieces of white marble (Yule
and Carrara) and Indiana limestone which the soil stains are so deep it
takes literally re-grinding and sanding the surface away to over
half-an-inch depth to remove the discoloration.  When I use that old
soil-stained stone from my bonepile I just build that in to 'design' of
what waste needs to be removed.  And if working outdoors I always cover the
(Continue reading)

Michael Shepherd | 24 Jul 2012 06:44
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Don,
Thank you for the thoughtful reply, I appreciate it. The fruit was have had
a fairly mild acid, because there was virtually no etching, and most of it
has been sanded away. I was going to try a poultice to pull the stain out.
I might try your baking soda and water first before trying the flour and
hydrogen peroxide poultice that I was planning on applying. Should I
consider pre-wetting the stone? Here in the dry Colorado heat these stones
are dry through and through, no moisture trapped in the middle that is for
certain.

With what little sanding I have done, some of the stain has certainly come
out, I do not feel that the depth of the stain is so deep that it would
require significant reworking, moreover since it has already been cut there
isn't much room for any more cutting. I guess I will just try all the
poultices and if that doesn't work I guess I will either decide to recut
another stone, or just live with it.

Thanks,

Mike

>

 
Gary Grossman | 24 Jul 2012 14:23
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Greetings carvers, I can attest to Don's poultice technique. I carve
outside and my backyard has many trees including a fruiting mulberry that
birds flock to.  I had a piece of Yule marble that I was carving and a bird
pooped out a mulberries on it leafing a small circular stain that was
highly noticeable. Don's technique pulled the stain right out and with some
surface sanding it was completely gone.
-- 
Gary D. Grossman, PhD

Professor of Animal Ecology
Warnell School of Forestry & Natural Resources
University of Georgia
Athens, GA, USA 30602

Research & teaching web site -
http://grossman.myweb.uga.edu/<http://www.arches.uga.edu/%7Egrossman>

Board of Editors - Animal Biodiversity and Conservation
Editorial Board - Freshwater Biology
Editorial Board - Ecology Freshwater Fish

Sculpture by Gary D. Grossman
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gary-Grossmans-Sculpture-Portfolio/124819124227147<http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/album.php?aid=2002317&id=1348406658>

Hutson Gallery Provincetown, MA - www.hutsongallery.net/artists.html

My ukulele channel - www.youtube.com/user/garydg29

 
(Continue reading)

Don Dougan | 24 Jul 2012 15:12
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Hi Michael,
When I apply the poultice it is a wet paste, so wetting the stone first
shouldn't hurt.  I cover the applied paste with the plastic to slow the
drying, because it is the drying action that seems to draw the stain out.
I am not a chemist, but the way I see it the flour and hydrogen peroxide
would seem to have an equally effective potential to draw the stain.  The
liquid - be it water or hydrogen peroxide - provides a vehicle for the
'stain' to be dissolved-in so it can move out of the pores of the stone,
and the baking soda or flour provides the 'clean' place for it to move to.
The drying action in the paste or wet powder locks the materials that
make-up the stain into itself so the stone has less percentage of the
discoloring agents.  Keeping the poultice paste 'wet' longer just allows
more time for the stain to be mobile so it can move into the poultice.
Repeating the process a second or third time will have a less effect than
previous times because less of the staining agents are left in the stone
and able to 'move'.

Something to consider is both distance and time.  You see the stain right
now and it is very obvious while sitting on the worktable as an obvious
focal point in freshly-worked stone, but once installed In something like a
window - as part of an outdoor architectural structure - the stain or
discoloration will soon be less noticeable for a couple of reasons; first
as simply a matter of distance -- the viewers will be much farther away and
viewing the stone as part of a greater whole without focusing on slight
little discolorations, second as simply one among many -- as other 'stains'
will appear over time from airborne pollution in the form of dust,
waterborne acids in rain, and of course the organic stains from detritus
borne by the wind, flying creatures, or even crawling, web-spinning
critters.

(Continue reading)

Michael Shepherd | 27 Aug 2012 05:46
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Don,
     You my friend, are a genius. Your poultice trick worked much better
than I could have ever imagined. I have attached a photo of the part of the
arch that is finished and though it was taken at dusk there is no visible
stain, unless you are absolutely hunting for it, and I can barely tell.
That square is a six inch square for scale.

Thanks once again!

Mike

The link is to the photo which is on Facebook, if it does not show let me
know.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/486591_816437786178_310316309_n.jpg

 
Don Dougan | 28 Aug 2012 12:39
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Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Hi Mike,
Glad it worked as well as it did.  Not genius, just following advice
picked-up along the way... you'll do the same for someone in future.

I envy you your carving studio with the wonderful windows -- when you get
it done its gonna be one of the highest-class personal carving studios on
the planet. <grin>.

Cheers,
Don

Don Dougan
www.dondougan.com

 
FOSTER,MICHAEL | 29 Aug 2012 23:28

Re: getting fruit stains out of stone

Don ,

     I share your sentyiments Don, great work mike.

          Michael


Gmane