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Xah | 1 Aug 2008 05:34
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Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode?

On Jul 31, 12:07 pm, Ted Zlatanov <t... <at> lifelogs.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:20:35 -0700 (PDT)Xah<xah... <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> In that case I suggest you start by making your change suggestion
> >> through the proper channels, not in this newsgroup.  I don't feel like
> >> explaining to you basic facts about man-hours, volunteer labor, and the
> >> hundreds of thousands of Emacs users that would deal with that change.
> >> Again, I'm not being rude, just unwilling to spend my time explaining
> >> all this when you don't appear to have any experience writing manuals,
> >> software, or doing user support.
>
> X> Can you keep to topic instead giving me extraneous advice?
>
> Above I listed the things I don't want to explain to you (but, with a
> little brain activity, you could understand for yourself) that make your
> 4 man-hours estimate to implement your proposed change extremely
> unrealistic.  This is very much on-topic.  It's frustrating that you
> simply ignore reasonable answers when they don't suit you.

One thing about argument, especially among newsgroup tech geekers, is
that reasoning and critical thinking is wanting, but lots huff and
puff and sneer. In this thread, i think Eli Zaretskii took the Gold
for huffy-puffy.

Your first post, is very good i think. It has solid technical info, on
topic, and helpful to new emacs users.

> X> For example, i suggest you more books about philosophy, critical
> X> thinking. I don't mean to be rude, but really, reading those books
> X> will help you discuss more fruitfully, even if you don't have real
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Harry Putnam | 7 Aug 2008 00:42
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Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode?

Xah <xahlee <at> gmail.com> writes:

>. . . . . . .  In this thread, i think Eli Zaretskii took the Gold
> for huffy-puffy.

I've wanted to jump into this debate a few times but realized I had
nothing to add that hadn't been said.  But now I feel I must reply to
this comment.  Even though my comments are quite a ways off the
subject. 

I'm not a developer, only a semi-longtime user.  And in fact one of
those semi-dunce users who often has a hard time learning about emacs.

I can tell you that you are way off base in taking up a sort of feisty
attitude to Eli.  I can say first hand that over a period of years,
probably at least 8 yrs, I've been getting answers to my questions
from Eli.  He has always been very professional.  Sometimes Eli would
state a fact that made it obvious that I hadn't thought very much
before asking my question  and sometimes that would make me want to
respond in some off-hand feisty manner,

But on reflection I'd invariably find that I was clearly off base and
all Eli had done was force me to see that.

So for your information and something to think about before you
continue to argue, Eli has answered my (often dumb) questions
patiently and at length for years... questions probably numbering in
the several hundreds by now...  That is not the act of someone who
likes to huff and puff.
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Ted Zlatanov | 1 Aug 2008 17:17
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Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode?

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Xah <xahlee <at> gmail.com> wrote: 

>> Above I listed the things I don't want to explain to you (but, with a
>> little brain activity, you could understand for yourself) that make your
>> 4 man-hours estimate to implement your proposed change extremely
>> unrealistic.  This is very much on-topic.  It's frustrating that you
>> simply ignore reasonable answers when they don't suit you.

X> One thing about argument, especially among newsgroup tech geekers, is
X> that reasoning and critical thinking is wanting, but lots huff and
X> puff and sneer.

<colbert>I accept your apology.</colbert>

X> In this thread, i think Eli Zaretskii took the Gold for huffy-puffy.

You're diverting the discussion and getting off the topic.  Please
don't.  Acknowledge your 4-hour estimate was unrealistic and let's move
on.

Your bug submission was the right way to raise the issue, and although
the manual will not be changed (unless I've misunderstood the messages),
people seem to be in favor of providing alternatives in the menus.  This
is similar in spirit to what I suggested to you about adding "Meta is
accessible via the Alt key" footnotes to your messages.  Meta will stay,
but new Emacs users will be helped to understand that it's bound to the
Alt key on most modern keyboards.

Ted
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Nikolaj Schumacher | 1 Aug 2008 10:12
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Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode?

Xah <xahlee <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Yesterday i filed a bug report on this issue.

That's great.  I'm also glad you reported a single issue and didn't mix
all your other concerns in.  Hopefully it'll be a more focused discussion than
the monstrosity going on here.

> PS To all, there's a emacs group in Second Life.

Is there a major mode for that? ;)

regards,
Nikolaj Schumacher
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Eli Zaretskii | 1 Aug 2008 09:18
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Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode?

> From: Xah <xahlee <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:34:16 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> On Jul 31, 12:07 pm, Ted Zlatanov <t... <at> lifelogs.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:20:35 -0700 (PDT)Xah<xah... <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> In that case I suggest you start by making your change suggestion
> > >> through the proper channels, not in this newsgroup.  I don't feel like
> > >> explaining to you basic facts about man-hours, volunteer labor, and the
> > >> hundreds of thousands of Emacs users that would deal with that change.
> > >> Again, I'm not being rude, just unwilling to spend my time explaining
> > >> all this when you don't appear to have any experience writing manuals,
> > >> software, or doing user support.
> >
> > X> Can you keep to topic instead giving me extraneous advice?
> >
> > Above I listed the things I don't want to explain to you (but, with a
> > little brain activity, you could understand for yourself) that make your
> > 4 man-hours estimate to implement your proposed change extremely
> > unrealistic.  This is very much on-topic.  It's frustrating that you
> > simply ignore reasonable answers when they don't suit you.
> 
> One thing about argument, especially among newsgroup tech geekers, is
> that reasoning and critical thinking is wanting, but lots huff and
> puff and sneer. In this thread, i think Eli Zaretskii took the Gold
> for huffy-puffy.

Look who's talking.  Your technique of taking something Ted wrote and
saying that I'm responsible for that in some way of course sets a fine
example of civilized argument about technical issues.  It's in no way
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