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Hans van Staveren | 4 Jul 2012 15:52
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Movement description files for calculating software

Not really for directors, but you might know your national guru.

 

I am in the process of making some software to manipulate movements. One of the things needed for that is some sort of agreed upon format for the files.
I was wondering if there is some sort of international standard for that, or at least what other countries do.

To give you an idea what I am talking about at the end of this message are two files describing a 7 round, 21 player individual and a 27 round barometer howell.

 

Any input welcome,

 

Hans

 

21 5 7 7 1

   7  14   8  10 A   4  15  12  13 B  11   3   6  18 C  21   5   9  20 D  16  19  17   2 E

   1   8   9  11 B   5  16  13  14 C  12   4   7  19 D  15   6  10  21 E  17  20  18   3 F

   2   9  10  12 C   6  17  14   8 D  13   5   1  20 E  16   7  11  15 F  18  21  19   4 G

   3  10  11  13 D   7  18   8   9 E  14   6   2  21 F  17   1  12  16 G  19  15  20   5 A

   4  11  12  14 E   1  19   9  10 F   8   7   3  15 G  18   2  13  17 A  20  16  21   6 B

   5  12  13   8 F   2  20  10  11 G   9   1   4  16 A  19   3  14  18 B  21  17  15   7 C

   6  13  14   9 G   3  21  11  12 A  10   2   5  17 B  20   4   8  19 C  15  18  16   1 D

 

28 14 27 27 0 g

  28   1  1  27   2  1  26   3  1  25   4  1  24   5  1  23   6  1  22   7  1  21   8  1  20   9  1  19  10  1  18  11  1  17  12  1  16  13  1  15  14  1

  28   2  2   1   3  2  27   4  2  26   5  2  25   6  2  24   7  2  23   8  2  22   9  2  21  10  2  20  11  2  19  12  2  18  13  2  17  14  2  16  15  2

  28   3  3   2   4  3   1   5  3  27   6  3  26   7  3  25   8  3  24   9  3  23  10  3  22  11  3  21  12  3  20  13  3  19  14  3  18  15  3  17  16  3

  28   4  4   3   5  4   2   6  4   1   7  4  27   8  4  26   9  4  25  10  4  24  11  4  23  12  4  22  13  4  21  14  4  20  15  4  19  16  4  18  17  4

  28   5  5   4   6  5   3   7  5   2   8  5   1   9  5  27  10  5  26  11  5  25  12  5  24  13  5  23  14  5  22  15  5  21  16  5  20  17  5  19  18  5

  28   6  6   5   7  6   4   8  6   3   9  6   2  10  6   1  11  6  27  12  6  26  13  6  25  14  6  24  15  6  23  16  6  22  17  6  21  18  6  20  19  6

  28   7  7   6   8  7   5   9  7   4  10  7   3  11  7   2  12  7   1  13  7  27  14  7  26  15  7  25  16  7  24  17  7  23  18  7  22  19  7  21  20  7

  28   8  8   7   9  8   6  10  8   5  11  8   4  12  8   3  13  8   2  14  8   1  15  8  27  16  8  26  17  8  25  18  8  24  19  8  23  20  8  22  21  8

  28   9  9   8  10  9   7  11  9   6  12  9   5  13  9   4  14  9   3  15  9   2  16  9   1  17  9  27  18  9  26  19  9  25  20  9  24  21  9  23  22  9

  28  10 10   9  11 10   8  12 10   7  13 10   6  14 10   5  15 10   4  16 10   3  17 10   2  18 10   1  19 10  27  20 10  26  21 10  25  22 10  24  23 10

  28  11 11  10  12 11   9  13 11   8  14 11   7  15 11   6  16 11   5  17 11   4  18 11   3  19 11   2  20 11   1  21 11  27  22 11  26  23 11  25  24 11

  28  12 12  11  13 12  10  14 12   9  15 12   8  16 12   7  17 12   6  18 12   5  19 12   4  20 12   3  21 12   2  22 12   1  23 12  27  24 12  26  25 12

  28  13 13  12  14 13  11  15 13  10  16 13   9  17 13   8  18 13   7  19 13   6  20 13   5  21 13   4  22 13   3  23 13   2  24 13   1  25 13  27  26 13

  28  14 14  13  15 14  12  16 14  11  17 14  10  18 14   9  19 14   8  20 14   7  21 14   6  22 14   5  23 14   4  24 14   3  25 14   2  26 14   1  27 14

  28  15 15  14  16 15  13  17 15  12  18 15  11  19 15  10  20 15   9  21 15   8  22 15   7  23 15   6  24 15   5  25 15   4  26 15   3  27 15   2   1 15

  28  16 16  15  17 16  14  18 16  13  19 16  12  20 16  11  21 16  10  22 16   9  23 16   8  24 16   7  25 16   6  26 16   5  27 16   4   1 16   3   2 16

  28  17 17  16  18 17  15  19 17  14  20 17  13  21 17  12  22 17  11  23 17  10  24 17   9  25 17   8  26 17   7  27 17   6   1 17   5   2 17   4   3 17

  28  18 18  17  19 18  16  20 18  15  21 18  14  22 18  13  23 18  12  24 18  11  25 18  10  26 18   9  27 18   8   1 18   7   2 18   6   3 18   5   4 18

  28  19 19  18  20 19  17  21 19  16  22 19  15  23 19  14  24 19  13  25 19  12  26 19  11  27 19  10   1 19   9   2 19   8   3 19   7   4 19   6   5 19

  28  20 20  19  21 20  18  22 20  17  23 20  16  24 20  15  25 20  14  26 20  13  27 20  12   1 20  11   2 20  10   3 20   9   4 20   8   5 20   7   6 20

  28  21 21  20  22 21  19  23 21  18  24 21  17  25 21  16  26 21  15  27 21  14   1 21  13   2 21  12   3 21  11   4 21  10   5 21   9   6 21   8   7 21

  28  22 22  21  23 22  20  24 22  19  25 22  18  26 22  17  27 22  16   1 22  15   2 22  14   3 22  13   4 22  12   5 22  11   6 22  10   7 22   9   8 22

  28  23 23  22  24 23  21  25 23  20  26 23  19  27 23  18   1 23  17   2 23  16   3 23  15   4 23  14   5 23  13   6 23  12   7 23  11   8 23  10   9 23

  28  24 24  23  25 24  22  26 24  21  27 24  20   1 24  19   2 24  18   3 24  17   4 24  16   5 24  15   6 24  14   7 24  13   8 24  12   9 24  11  10 24

  28  25 25  24  26 25  23  27 25  22   1 25  21   2 25  20   3 25  19   4 25  18   5 25  17   6 25  16   7 25  15   8 25  14   9 25  13  10 25  12  11 25

  28  26 26  25  27 26  24   1 26  23   2 26  22   3 26  21   4 26  20   5 26  19   6 26  18   7 26  17   8 26  16   9 26  15  10 26  14  11 26  13  12 26

  28  27 27  26   1 27  25   2 27  24   3 27  23   4 27  22   5 27  21   6 27  20   7 27  19   8 27  18   9 27  17  10 27  16  11 27  15  12 27  14  13 27

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Gordon Rainsford | 4 Jul 2012 18:14

Re: Movement description files for calculating software

The EBU Manual of Duplicate Bridge Movements, by JR Manning, for which a new edition is about to be published, uses the notation 1A1 2B2 3C3 where each group is NS pair number followed by Boardset (alphabetical) and then EW pair number. Each line is a round, so there are as many lines as rounds. An example is at http://www.ebu.co.uk/documents/16T13Rwebmovement.pdf

This same format is used by Scorebridge, the scoring program that is issued to EBU affiliated clubs, and I've used that same format when making Excel VBA files that create Web Movements, adjust the boardsets for existing movements, and add Rovers to existing Movements.

The other scoring program(s) used by the EBU, Jeff Smith's, uses a different format which is rather like a transposed version of your format. It has numerical boardsets and puts each table on one line. I show an example of it below. I also have an Excel file that converts Scorebridge format to Jeff Smith format.

Gordon Rainsford

Web Mitchell
1,16,26,2,13,0
1,1,1,1,16,2,1,15,3,1,14,4,1,13,5,1,12,6,1,11,7,1,10,8,1,9,9,1,8,10,1,7,11,1,6,12,1,5,13
2,2,2,2,1,3,2,16,4,2,15,5,2,14,6,2,13,7,2,12,8,2,11,9,2,10,10,2,9,11,2,8,12,2,7,13,2,6,1
3,3,3,3,2,4,3,1,5,3,16,6,3,15,7,3,14,8,3,13,9,3,12,10,3,11,11,3,10,12,3,9,13,3,8,1,3,7,2
4,4,4,4,3,5,4,2,6,4,1,7,4,16,8,4,15,9,4,14,10,4,13,11,4,12,12,4,11,13,4,10,1,4,9,2,4,8,3
5,5,5,5,4,6,5,3,7,5,2,8,5,1,9,5,16,10,5,15,11,5,14,12,5,13,13,5,12,1,5,11,2,5,10,3,5,9,4
6,6,6,6,5,7,6,4,8,6,3,9,6,2,10,6,1,11,6,16,12,6,15,13,6,14,1,6,13,2,6,12,3,6,11,4,6,10,5
7,7,7,7,6,8,7,5,9,7,4,10,7,3,11,7,2,12,7,1,13,7,16,1,7,15,2,7,14,3,7,13,4,7,12,5,7,11,6
8,8,8,8,7,9,8,6,10,8,5,11,8,4,12,8,3,13,8,2,1,8,1,2,8,16,3,8,15,4,8,14,5,8,13,6,8,12,7
9,9,7,9,8,6,9,7,5,9,6,4,9,5,3,9,4,2,9,3,1,9,2,13,9,1,12,9,16,11,9,15,10,9,14,9,9,13,8
10,10,6,10,9,5,10,8,4,10,7,3,10,6,2,10,5,1,10,4,13,10,3,12,10,2,11,10,1,10,10,16,9,10,15,8,10,14,7
11,11,5,11,10,4,11,9,3,11,8,2,11,7,1,11,6,13,11,5,12,11,4,11,11,3,10,11,2,9,11,1,8,11,16,7,11,15,6
12,12,4,12,11,3,12,10,2,12,9,1,12,8,13,12,7,12,12,6,11,12,5,10,12,4,9,12,3,8,12,2,7,12,1,6,12,16,5
13,13,3,13,12,2,13,11,1,13,10,13,13,9,12,13,8,11,13,7,10,13,6,9,13,5,8,13,4,7,13,3,6,13,2,5,13,1,4
14,14,2,14,13,1,14,12,13,14,11,12,14,10,11,14,9,10,14,8,9,14,7,8,14,6,7,14,5,6,14,4,5,14,3,4,14,2,3
15,15,1,15,14,13,15,13,12,15,12,11,15,11,10,15,10,9,15,9,8,15,8,7,15,7,6,15,6,5,15,5,4,15,4,3,15,3,2
16,16,13,16,15,12,16,14,11,16,13,10,16,12,9,16,11,8,16,10,7,16,9,6,16,8,5,16,7,4,16,6,3,16,5,2,16,4,1

On 04/07/2012 14:52, Hans van Staveren wrote:

Not really for directors, but you might know your national guru.

 

I am in the process of making some software to manipulate movements. One of the things needed for that is some sort of agreed upon format for the files.
I was wondering if there is some sort of international standard for that, or at least what other countries do.

To give you an idea what I am talking about at the end of this message are two files describing a 7 round, 21 player individual and a 27 round barometer howell.

 

Any input welcome,

 

Hans

 

21 5 7 7 1

   7  14   8  10 A   4  15  12  13 B  11   3   6  18 C  21   5   9  20 D  16  19  17   2 E

   1   8   9  11 B   5  16  13  14 C  12   4   7  19 D  15   6  10  21 E  17  20  18   3 F

   2   9  10  12 C   6  17  14   8 D  13   5   1  20 E  16   7  11  15 F  18  21  19   4 G

   3  10  11  13 D   7  18   8   9 E  14   6   2  21 F  17   1  12  16 G  19  15  20   5 A

   4  11  12  14 E   1  19   9  10 F   8   7   3  15 G  18   2  13  17 A  20  16  21   6 B

   5  12  13   8 F   2  20  10  11 G   9   1   4  16 A  19   3  14  18 B  21  17  15   7 C

   6  13  14   9 G   3  21  11  12 A  10   2   5  17 B  20   4   8  19 C  15  18  16   1 D

 

28 14 27 27 0 g

  28   1  1  27   2  1  26   3  1  25   4  1  24   5  1  23   6  1  22   7  1  21   8  1  20   9  1  19  10  1  18  11  1  17  12  1  16  13  1  15  14  1

  28   2  2   1   3  2  27   4  2  26   5  2  25   6  2  24   7  2  23   8  2  22   9  2  21  10  2  20  11  2  19  12  2  18  13  2  17  14  2  16  15  2

  28   3  3   2   4  3   1   5  3  27   6  3  26   7  3  25   8  3  24   9  3  23  10  3  22  11  3  21  12  3  20  13  3  19  14  3  18  15  3  17  16  3

  28   4  4   3   5  4   2   6  4   1   7  4  27   8  4  26   9  4  25  10  4  24  11  4  23  12  4  22  13  4  21  14  4  20  15  4  19  16  4  18  17  4

  28   5  5   4   6  5   3   7  5   2   8  5   1   9  5  27  10  5  26  11  5  25  12  5  24  13  5  23  14  5  22  15  5  21  16  5  20  17  5  19  18  5

  28   6  6   5   7  6   4   8  6   3   9  6   2  10  6   1  11  6  27  12  6  26  13  6  25  14  6  24  15  6  23  16  6  22  17  6  21  18  6  20  19  6

  28   7  7   6   8  7   5   9  7   4  10  7   3  11  7   2  12  7   1  13  7  27  14  7  26  15  7  25  16  7  24  17  7  23  18  7  22  19  7  21  20  7

  28   8  8   7   9  8   6  10  8   5  11  8   4  12  8   3  13  8   2  14  8   1  15  8  27  16  8  26  17  8  25  18  8  24  19  8  23  20  8  22  21  8

  28   9  9   8  10  9   7  11  9   6  12  9   5  13  9   4  14  9   3  15  9   2  16  9   1  17  9  27  18  9  26  19  9  25  20  9  24  21  9  23  22  9

  28  10 10   9  11 10   8  12 10   7  13 10   6  14 10   5  15 10   4  16 10   3  17 10   2  18 10   1  19 10  27  20 10  26  21 10  25  22 10  24  23 10

  28  11 11  10  12 11   9  13 11   8  14 11   7  15 11   6  16 11   5  17 11   4  18 11   3  19 11   2  20 11   1  21 11  27  22 11  26  23 11  25  24 11

  28  12 12  11  13 12  10  14 12   9  15 12   8  16 12   7  17 12   6  18 12   5  19 12   4  20 12   3  21 12   2  22 12   1  23 12  27  24 12  26  25 12

  28  13 13  12  14 13  11  15 13  10  16 13   9  17 13   8  18 13   7  19 13   6  20 13   5  21 13   4  22 13   3  23 13   2  24 13   1  25 13  27  26 13

  28  14 14  13  15 14  12  16 14  11  17 14  10  18 14   9  19 14   8  20 14   7  21 14   6  22 14   5  23 14   4  24 14   3  25 14   2  26 14   1  27 14

  28  15 15  14  16 15  13  17 15  12  18 15  11  19 15  10  20 15   9  21 15   8  22 15   7  23 15   6  24 15   5  25 15   4  26 15   3  27 15   2   1 15

  28  16 16  15  17 16  14  18 16  13  19 16  12  20 16  11  21 16  10  22 16   9  23 16   8  24 16   7  25 16   6  26 16   5  27 16   4   1 16   3   2 16

  28  17 17  16  18 17  15  19 17  14  20 17  13  21 17  12  22 17  11  23 17  10  24 17   9  25 17   8  26 17   7  27 17   6   1 17   5   2 17   4   3 17

  28  18 18  17  19 18  16  20 18  15  21 18  14  22 18  13  23 18  12  24 18  11  25 18  10  26 18   9  27 18   8   1 18   7   2 18   6   3 18   5   4 18

  28  19 19  18  20 19  17  21 19  16  22 19  15  23 19  14  24 19  13  25 19  12  26 19  11  27 19  10   1 19   9   2 19   8   3 19   7   4 19   6   5 19

  28  20 20  19  21 20  18  22 20  17  23 20  16  24 20  15  25 20  14  26 20  13  27 20  12   1 20  11   2 20  10   3 20   9   4 20   8   5 20   7   6 20

  28  21 21  20  22 21  19  23 21  18  24 21  17  25 21  16  26 21  15  27 21  14   1 21  13   2 21  12   3 21  11   4 21  10   5 21   9   6 21   8   7 21

  28  22 22  21  23 22  20  24 22  19  25 22  18  26 22  17  27 22  16   1 22  15   2 22  14   3 22  13   4 22  12   5 22  11   6 22  10   7 22   9   8 22

  28  23 23  22  24 23  21  25 23  20  26 23  19  27 23  18   1 23  17   2 23  16   3 23  15   4 23  14   5 23  13   6 23  12   7 23  11   8 23  10   9 23

  28  24 24  23  25 24  22  26 24  21  27 24  20   1 24  19   2 24  18   3 24  17   4 24  16   5 24  15   6 24  14   7 24  13   8 24  12   9 24  11  10 24

  28  25 25  24  26 25  23  27 25  22   1 25  21   2 25  20   3 25  19   4 25  18   5 25  17   6 25  16   7 25  15   8 25  14   9 25  13  10 25  12  11 25

  28  26 26  25  27 26  24   1 26  23   2 26  22   3 26  21   4 26  20   5 26  19   6 26  18   7 26  17   8 26  16   9 26  15  10 26  14  11 26  13  12 26

  28  27 27  26   1 27  25   2 27  24   3 27  23   4 27  22   5 27  21   6 27  20   7 27  19   8 27  18   9 27  17  10 27  16  11 27  15  12 27  14  13 27



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Gordon Rainsford | 4 Jul 2012 18:29

Re: Movement description files for calculating software

Actually the Scorebridge implementation of this uses leading zeros, as shown in this example from when an event is started with two-board rounds and then a third board is added to each boardset:

9 table Mitchell Irregular Boardsets
"M",2
01 01A01 02C02 03E03 04G04 05I05 06K06 07M07 08O08 09Y09
02 01B01 02D02 03F03 04H04 05J05 06L06 07N07 08P08 09Z09
03 01Q01 02R02 03S03 04T04 05U05 06V06 07W07 08X08 09a09
04 01C09 02E01 03G02 04I03 05K04 06M05 07O06 08Y07 09A08
05 01D09 02F01 03H02 04J03 05L04 06N05 07P06 08Z07 09B08
06 01R09 02S01 03T02 04U03 05V04 06W05 07X06 08a07 09Q08
07 01E08 02G09 03I01 04K02 05M03 06O04 07Y05 08A06 09C07
08 01F08 02H09 03J01 04L02 05N03 06P04 07Z05 08B06 09D07
09 01S08 02T09 03U01 04V02 05W03 06X04 07a05 08Q06 09R07
10 01G07 02I08 03K09 04M01 05O02 06Y03 07A04 08C05 09E06
11 01H07 02J08 03L09 04N01 05P02 06Z03 07B04 08D05 09F06
12 01T07 02U08 03V09 04W01 05X02 06a03 07Q04 08R05 09S06
13 01I06 02K07 03M08 04O09 05Y01 06A02 07C03 08E04 09G05
14 01J06 02L07 03N08 04P09 05Z01 06B02 07D03 08F04 09H05
15 01U06 02V07 03W08 04X09 05a01 06Q02 07R03 08S04 09T05
16 01K05 02M06 03O07 04Y08 05A09 06C01 07E02 08G03 09I04
17 01L05 02N06 03P07 04Z08 05B09 06D01 07F02 08H03 09J04
18 01V05 02W06 03X07 04a08 05Q09 06R01 07S02 08T03 09U04
19 01M04 02O05 03Y06 04A07 05C08 06E09 07G01 08I02 09K03
20 01N04 02P05 03Z06 04B07 05D08 06F09 07H01 08J02 09L03
21 01W04 02X05 03a06 04Q07 05R08 06S09 07T01 08U02 09V03
22 01O03 02Y04 03A05 04C06 05E07 06G08 07I09 08K01 09M02
23 01P03 02Z04 03B05 04D06 05F07 06H08 07J09 08L01 09N02
24 01X03 02a04 03Q05 04R06 05S07 06T08 07U09 08V01 09W02
25 01Y02 02A03 03C04 04E05 05G06 06I07 07K08 08M09 09O01
26 01Z02 02B03 03D04 04F05 05H06 06J07 07L08 08N09 09P01
27 01a02 02Q03 03R04 04S05 05T06 06U07 07V08 08W09 09X01

Gordon Rainsforfd

On 04/07/2012 17:14, Gordon Rainsford wrote:
The EBU Manual of Duplicate Bridge Movements, by JR Manning, for which a new edition is about to be published, uses the notation 1A1 2B2 3C3 where each group is NS pair number followed by Boardset (alphabetical) and then EW pair number. Each line is a round, so there are as many lines as rounds. An example is at http://www.ebu.co.uk/documents/16T13Rwebmovement.pdf

This same format is used by Scorebridge, the scoring program that is issued to EBU affiliated clubs, and I've used that same format when making Excel VBA files that create Web Movements, adjust the boardsets for existing movements, and add Rovers to existing Movements.  
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Hans van Staveren | 4 Jul 2012 21:38
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

Thanks. I’ll have a look.

But how do you encode arrow-switches if NS and EW have the same numbers?

 

Hans

 

From: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Rainsford
Sent: woensdag 4 juli 2012 18:29
To: Bridge Laws Mailing List
Subject: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 

Actually the Scorebridge implementation of this uses leading zeros, as shown in this example from when an event is started with two-board rounds and then a third board is added to each boardset:

9 table Mitchell Irregular Boardsets
"M",2
01 01A01 02C02 03E03 04G04 05I05 06K06 07M07 08O08 09Y09
02 01B01 02D02 03F03 04H04 05J05 06L06 07N07 08P08 09Z09
03 01Q01 02R02 03S03 04T04 05U05 06V06 07W07 08X08 09a09
04 01C09 02E01 03G02 04I03 05K04 06M05 07O06 08Y07 09A08
05 01D09 02F01 03H02 04J03 05L04 06N05 07P06 08Z07 09B08
06 01R09 02S01 03T02 04U03 05V04 06W05 07X06 08a07 09Q08
07 01E08 02G09 03I01 04K02 05M03 06O04 07Y05 08A06 09C07
08 01F08 02H09 03J01 04L02 05N03 06P04 07Z05 08B06 09D07
09 01S08 02T09 03U01 04V02 05W03 06X04 07a05 08Q06 09R07
10 01G07 02I08 03K09 04M01 05O02 06Y03 07A04 08C05 09E06
11 01H07 02J08 03L09 04N01 05P02 06Z03 07B04 08D05 09F06
12 01T07 02U08 03V09 04W01 05X02 06a03 07Q04 08R05 09S06
13 01I06 02K07 03M08 04O09 05Y01 06A02 07C03 08E04 09G05
14 01J06 02L07 03N08 04P09 05Z01 06B02 07D03 08F04 09H05
15 01U06 02V07 03W08 04X09 05a01 06Q02 07R03 08S04 09T05
16 01K05 02M06 03O07 04Y08 05A09 06C01 07E02 08G03 09I04
17 01L05 02N06 03P07 04Z08 05B09 06D01 07F02 08H03 09J04
18 01V05 02W06 03X07 04a08 05Q09 06R01 07S02 08T03 09U04
19 01M04 02O05 03Y06 04A07 05C08 06E09 07G01 08I02 09K03
20 01N04 02P05 03Z06 04B07 05D08 06F09 07H01 08J02 09L03
21 01W04 02X05 03a06 04Q07 05R08 06S09 07T01 08U02 09V03
22 01O03 02Y04 03A05 04C06 05E07 06G08 07I09 08K01 09M02
23 01P03 02Z04 03B05 04D06 05F07 06H08 07J09 08L01 09N02
24 01X03 02a04 03Q05 04R06 05S07 06T08 07U09 08V01 09W02
25 01Y02 02A03 03C04 04E05 05G06 06I07 07K08 08M09 09O01
26 01Z02 02B03 03D04 04F05 05H06 06J07 07L08 08N09 09P01
27 01a02 02Q03 03R04 04S05 05T06 06U07 07V08 08W09 09X01

Gordon Rainsforfd

On 04/07/2012 17:14, Gordon Rainsford wrote:

The EBU Manual of Duplicate Bridge Movements, by JR Manning, for which a new edition is about to be published, uses the notation 1A1 2B2 3C3 where each group is NS pair number followed by Boardset (alphabetical) and then EW pair number. Each line is a round, so there are as many lines as rounds. An example is at http://www.ebu.co.uk/documents/16T13Rwebmovement.pdf

This same format is used by Scorebridge, the scoring program that is issued to EBU affiliated clubs, and I've used that same format when making Excel VBA files that create Web Movements, adjust the boardsets for existing movements, and add Rovers to existing Movements. 

 

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Gordon Rainsford | 4 Jul 2012 22:27

Re: Movement description files for calculating software

In both of those programs arrow-switching is a run-time setting, as is the EW table number-offset. However, if you did want to fix the arrow-switches, you could offset the EW pair numbers in the movement by the number of tables. 

Gordon Rainsford 

On 4 Jul 2012, at 20:38, "Hans van Staveren" <sater <at> xs4all.nl> wrote:

Thanks. I’ll have a look.

But how do you encode arrow-switches if NS and EW have the same numbers?

 

Hans


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Ed Reppert | 5 Jul 2012 01:31
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software


On Jul 4, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Hans van Staveren wrote:

Thanks. I’ll have a look.

But how do you encode arrow-switches if NS and EW have the same numbers?


I'm not sure how I'd answer this, although Gordon's suggestion may work. I think you have to cater, as you say, for the possibility that NS and EW will have the same numbers (or call them, perhaps Nx and Ex?)

In general, you might want to consider the data as a starting position (number of tables, number of board sets, number of boards per set, pairs at each table, board sets at each table) and a set of instructions for later moves, for example "boards down one, pairs up one", for a Mitchell, or "boards down one, moving pairs follow the next lower number pair" for a Howell. Other movements may, of course, be more complicated, and you'd have to deal with getting the boards from the lowest numbered table to the highest, and with phantom or rover pairs. I wonder if any of the authors of "Movements: A Fair Approach" have any thoughts on this - one of them is a mathematician, as I recall. 

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Sven Pran | 4 Jul 2012 18:39
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

I believe PBN is a standard that can cater for this purpose as well?

 

Fra: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] På vegne av Hans van Staveren
Sendt: 4. juli 2012 15:53
Til: 'Bridge Laws Mailing List'
Emne: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 

Not really for directors, but you might know your national guru.

 

I am in the process of making some software to manipulate movements. One of the things needed for that is some sort of agreed upon format for the files.
I was wondering if there is some sort of international standard for that, or at least what other countries do.

To give you an idea what I am talking about at the end of this message are two files describing a 7 round, 21 player individual and a 27 round barometer howell.

 

Any input welcome,

 

Hans

 

21 5 7 7 1

   7  14   8  10 A   4  15  12  13 B  11   3   6  18 C  21   5   9  20 D  16  19  17   2 E

   1   8   9  11 B   5  16  13  14 C  12   4   7  19 D  15   6  10  21 E  17  20  18   3 F

   2   9  10  12 C   6  17  14   8 D  13   5   1  20 E  16   7  11  15 F  18  21  19   4 G

   3  10  11  13 D   7  18   8   9 E  14   6   2  21 F  17   1  12  16 G  19  15  20   5 A

   4  11  12  14 E   1  19   9  10 F   8   7   3  15 G  18   2  13  17 A  20  16  21   6 B

   5  12  13   8 F   2  20  10  11 G   9   1   4  16 A  19   3  14  18 B  21  17  15   7 C

   6  13  14   9 G   3  21  11  12 A  10   2   5  17 B  20   4   8  19 C  15  18  16   1 D

 

28 14 27 27 0 g

  28   1  1  27   2  1  26   3  1  25   4  1  24   5  1  23   6  1  22   7  1  21   8  1  20   9  1  19  10  1  18  11  1  17  12  1  16  13  1  15  14  1

  28   2  2   1   3  2  27   4  2  26   5  2  25   6  2  24   7  2  23   8  2  22   9  2  21  10  2  20  11  2  19  12  2  18  13  2  17  14  2  16  15  2

  28   3  3   2   4  3   1   5  3  27   6  3  26   7  3  25   8  3  24   9  3  23  10  3  22  11  3  21  12  3  20  13  3  19  14  3  18  15  3  17  16  3

  28   4  4   3   5  4   2   6  4   1   7  4  27   8  4  26   9  4  25  10  4  24  11  4  23  12  4  22  13  4  21  14  4  20  15  4  19  16  4  18  17  4

  28   5  5   4   6  5   3   7  5   2   8  5   1   9  5  27  10  5  26  11  5  25  12  5  24  13  5  23  14  5  22  15  5  21  16  5  20  17  5  19  18  5

  28   6  6   5   7  6   4   8  6   3   9  6   2  10  6   1  11  6  27  12  6  26  13  6  25  14  6  24  15  6  23  16  6  22  17  6  21  18  6  20  19  6

  28   7  7   6   8  7   5   9  7   4  10  7   3  11  7   2  12  7   1  13  7  27  14  7  26  15  7  25  16  7  24  17  7  23  18  7  22  19  7  21  20  7

  28   8  8   7   9  8   6  10  8   5  11  8   4  12  8   3  13  8   2  14  8   1  15  8  27  16  8  26  17  8  25  18  8  24  19  8  23  20  8  22  21  8

  28   9  9   8  10  9   7  11  9   6  12  9   5  13  9   4  14  9   3  15  9   2  16  9   1  17  9  27  18  9  26  19  9  25  20  9  24  21  9  23  22  9

  28  10 10   9  11 10   8  12 10   7  13 10   6  14 10   5  15 10   4  16 10   3  17 10   2  18 10   1  19 10  27  20 10  26  21 10  25  22 10  24  23 10

  28  11 11  10  12 11   9  13 11   8  14 11   7  15 11   6  16 11   5  17 11   4  18 11   3  19 11   2  20 11   1  21 11  27  22 11  26  23 11  25  24 11

  28  12 12  11  13 12  10  14 12   9  15 12   8  16 12   7  17 12   6  18 12   5  19 12   4  20 12   3  21 12   2  22 12   1  23 12  27  24 12  26  25 12

  28  13 13  12  14 13  11  15 13  10  16 13   9  17 13   8  18 13   7  19 13   6  20 13   5  21 13   4  22 13   3  23 13   2  24 13   1  25 13  27  26 13

  28  14 14  13  15 14  12  16 14  11  17 14  10  18 14   9  19 14   8  20 14   7  21 14   6  22 14   5  23 14   4  24 14   3  25 14   2  26 14   1  27 14

  28  15 15  14  16 15  13  17 15  12  18 15  11  19 15  10  20 15   9  21 15   8  22 15   7  23 15   6  24 15   5  25 15   4  26 15   3  27 15   2   1 15

  28  16 16  15  17 16  14  18 16  13  19 16  12  20 16  11  21 16  10  22 16   9  23 16   8  24 16   7  25 16   6  26 16   5  27 16   4   1 16   3   2 16

  28  17 17  16  18 17  15  19 17  14  20 17  13  21 17  12  22 17  11  23 17  10  24 17   9  25 17   8  26 17   7  27 17   6   1 17   5   2 17   4   3 17

  28  18 18  17  19 18  16  20 18  15  21 18  14  22 18  13  23 18  12  24 18  11  25 18  10  26 18   9  27 18   8   1 18   7   2 18   6   3 18   5   4 18

  28  19 19  18  20 19  17  21 19  16  22 19  15  23 19  14  24 19  13  25 19  12  26 19  11  27 19  10   1 19   9   2 19   8   3 19   7   4 19   6   5 19

  28  20 20  19  21 20  18  22 20  17  23 20  16  24 20  15  25 20  14  26 20  13  27 20  12   1 20  11   2 20  10   3 20   9   4 20   8   5 20   7   6 20

  28  21 21  20  22 21  19  23 21  18  24 21  17  25 21  16  26 21  15  27 21  14   1 21  13   2 21  12   3 21  11   4 21  10   5 21   9   6 21   8   7 21

  28  22 22  21  23 22  20  24 22  19  25 22  18  26 22  17  27 22  16   1 22  15   2 22  14   3 22  13   4 22  12   5 22  11   6 22  10   7 22   9   8 22

  28  23 23  22  24 23  21  25 23  20  26 23  19  27 23  18   1 23  17   2 23  16   3 23  15   4 23  14   5 23  13   6 23  12   7 23  11   8 23  10   9 23

  28  24 24  23  25 24  22  26 24  21  27 24  20   1 24  19   2 24  18   3 24  17   4 24  16   5 24  15   6 24  14   7 24  13   8 24  12   9 24  11  10 24

  28  25 25  24  26 25  23  27 25  22   1 25  21   2 25  20   3 25  19   4 25  18   5 25  17   6 25  16   7 25  15   8 25  14   9 25  13  10 25  12  11 25

  28  26 26  25  27 26  24   1 26  23   2 26  22   3 26  21   4 26  20   5 26  19   6 26  18   7 26  17   8 26  16   9 26  15  10 26  14  11 26  13  12 26

  28  27 27  26   1 27  25   2 27  24   3 27  23   4 27  22   5 27  21   6 27  20   7 27  19   8 27  18   9 27  17  10 27  16  11 27  15  12 27  14  13 27

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Ed Reppert | 5 Jul 2012 01:17
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software


On Jul 4, 2012, at 12:39 PM, Sven Pran wrote:

I believe PBN is a standard that can cater for this purpose as well?

You may also want to look at Richard Pavlicek's RBN format <http://www.rpbridge.net/7a12.htm> and Thomas Andrews' article on the BridgeML project (based on XML) at <http://bridge.thomasoandrews.com/xml/>.

The July ACBL Bulletin has an article announcing that there is a complete re-write of ACBLScore in progress. There's a website with information about the project (I haven't looked at it in depth yet): <http://www.acblscoreplus.com/>
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Gordon Rainsford | 5 Jul 2012 01:32

Re: Movement description files for calculating software

I wonder if I'm missing something - neither of those formats seems to be aimed at doing what Hans is talking about.

Gordon Rainsford

On 05/07/2012 00:17, Ed Reppert wrote:

On Jul 4, 2012, at 12:39 PM, Sven Pran wrote:

I believe PBN is a standard that can cater for this purpose as well?

You may also want to look at Richard Pavlicek's RBN format <http://www.rpbridge.net/7a12.htm> and Thomas Andrews' article on the BridgeML project (based on XML) at <http://bridge.thomasoandrews.com/xml/>.

The July ACBL Bulletin has an article announcing that there is a complete re-write of ACBLScore in progress. There's a website with information about the project (I haven't looked at it in depth yet): <http://www.acblscoreplus.com/>


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Ed Reppert | 5 Jul 2012 02:16
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software


On Jul 4, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Gordon Rainsford wrote:

I wonder if I'm missing something - neither of those formats seems to be aimed at doing what Hans is talking about.

Not specifically, no, but they may be extensible. Frankly, it looks to me like the ACBLscore+ project may be the best place to find what Hans needs. Or maybe not, it seems to be still in the early stages. They've put up a number of bulletin boards on various "pieces" of the problem, including one for xml, which has a brief history of file formats. <http://xml.acblscoreplus.com/xml_phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6> It mentions PBN, LIN, CBF (don't know anything about that one), and USEBIO, an xml format used by the EBU <http://www.ebu.co.uk/usebio/usebio.pdf>. T hey also mention that part of the intent of this project is that other NBOs might be persuaded to use it, if it will suit their needs.
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Hans van Staveren | 5 Jul 2012 08:53
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

Most of these formats are for transferring bridge results. This is far removed from movement data.

The EBU stuff does contain one chapter about movements, but apart from being far from simple to parse it contains start and end board numbers.

This is normally not included in movements. You should be able to use the same movement for 2 board rounds or 3 board rounds(or 4 board as is the custom in my strange country).

 

Hans

 

From: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] On Behalf Of Ed Reppert
Sent: donderdag 5 juli 2012 2:17
To: Bridge Laws Mailing List
Subject: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 

 

On Jul 4, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Gordon Rainsford wrote:



I wonder if I'm missing something - neither of those formats seems to be aimed at doing what Hans is talking about.

 

Not specifically, no, but they may be extensible. Frankly, it looks to me like the ACBLscore+ project may be the best place to find what Hans needs. Or maybe not, it seems to be still in the early stages. They've put up a number of bulletin boards on various "pieces" of the problem, including one for xml, which has a brief history of file formats. <http://xml.acblscoreplus.com/xml_phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6> It mentions PBN, LIN, CBF (don't know anything about that one), and USEBIO, an xml format used by the EBU <http://www.ebu.co.uk/usebio/usebio.pdf>. They also mention that part of the intent of this project is that other NBOs might be persuaded to use it, if it will suit their needs.

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Gordon Rainsford | 5 Jul 2012 10:07

Re: Movement description files for calculating software



On 05/07/2012 07:53, Hans van Staveren wrote:

Most of these formats are for transferring bridge results. This is far removed from movement data.

Indeed.

The EBU stuff does contain one chapter about movements, but apart from being far from simple to parse it contains start and end board numbers.

The EBU book and Scorebridge just contain alphabetical sets that can be of any size.

This is normally not included in movements. You should be able to use the same movement for 2 board rounds or 3 board rounds(or 4 board as is the custom in my strange country).

The Jeff Smith format includes boardset sizes so as to make the full movement close to 24 boards as a default, but this can be easily over-ridden when setting up the movement. The individual cells just contain numeric sets in exactly the same way as the example you gave, Hans.

Do the programs you use not allow for decisions about arrow-switching, board-set size, and EW numbering to be made when setting up the event?

Gordon Rainsford
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Hans van Staveren | 5 Jul 2012 13:59
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

There is a debate possible where arrow-switches for balance must be done.

One possibility is to let the scoring program insert them, but it would be a miraculous scoring program indeed if it could do it right for all movements. My guess is that this approach is historical, and comes from the fact that you basically only played Mitchells without arrow-switches, until someone came up with the idea, and it was hacked into the scoring program.

 

Our approach is to do all the balancing stuff when you design the movement, and the scoring program should just obey.

That is why in this approach it is imperative that all contestants in a movement have separate numbers, else you would never know who is who.

 

Hans

 

From: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Rainsford
Sent: donderdag 5 juli 2012 10:07
To: Bridge Laws Mailing List
Subject: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 



On 05/07/2012 07:53, Hans van Staveren wrote:

Most of these formats are for transferring bridge results. This is far removed from movement data.

Indeed.

The EBU stuff does contain one chapter about movements, but apart from being far from simple to parse it contains start and end board numbers.

The EBU book and Scorebridge just contain alphabetical sets that can be of any size.

This is normally not included in movements. You should be able to use the same movement for 2 board rounds or 3 board rounds(or 4 board as is the custom in my strange country).

The Jeff Smith format includes boardset sizes so as to make the full movement close to 24 boards as a default, but this can be easily over-ridden when setting up the movement. The individual cells just contain numeric sets in exactly the same way as the example you gave, Hans.

Do the programs you use not allow for decisions about arrow-switching, board-set size, and EW numbering to be made when setting up the event?

Gordon Rainsford

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Gordon Rainsford | 5 Jul 2012 18:29

Re: Movement description files for calculating software

It seems as though you are getting a bit bogged down in a side issue, Hans. If you want EW pairs to have unique numbers, give them unique numbers as you would for a Howell or Hesitation Mitchell. Those who prefer to use two-winner type Mitchells (with or without an arrow-switch) can do so. 

None of this impacts on the rounds/tables, spaces/commas and alphabetical/numerical decisions. Personally I like boardsets to be alphabetical, but maybe that's just what I'm used to. 

Gordon Rainsford

On 5 Jul 2012, at 12:59, "Hans van Staveren" <sater <at> xs4all.nl> wrote:

There is a debate possible where arrow-switches for balance must be done.

One possibility is to let the scoring program insert them, but it would be a miraculous scoring program indeed if it could do it right for all movements. My guess is that this approach is historical, and comes from the fact that you basically only played Mitchells without arrow-switches, until someone came up with the idea, and it was hacked into the scoring program.

 

Our approach is to do all the balancing stuff when you design the movement, and the scoring program should just obey.

That is why in this approach it is imperative that all contestants in a movement have separate numbers, else you would never know who is who.

 

Hans

 

From: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Rainsford
Sent: donderdag 5 juli 2012 10:07
To: Bridge Laws Mailing List
Subject: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 



On 05/07/2012 07:53, Hans van Staveren wrote:

Most of these formats are for transferring bridge results. This is far removed from movement data.

Indeed.

The EBU stuff does contain one chapter about movements, but apart from being far from simple to parse it contains start and end board numbers.

The EBU book and Scorebridge just contain alphabetical sets that can be of any size.

This is normally not included in movements. You should be able to use the same movement for 2 board rounds or 3 board rounds(or 4 board as is the custom in my strange country).

The Jeff Smith format includes boardset sizes so as to make the full movement close to 24 boards as a default, but this can be easily over-ridden when setting up the movement. The individual cells just contain numeric sets in exactly the same way as the example you gave, Hans.

Do the programs you use not allow for decisions about arrow-switching, board-set size, and EW numbering to be made when setting up the event?

Gordon Rainsford

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Hans van Staveren | 5 Jul 2012 19:14
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

The format is a side issue, but if there is a standard I want to use it. Actually I do not think there is a standard.

But using the same number for NS and EW is not a side issue. It makes it impossible to know for sure who sits where in general and restricts you in the sort of movements you can express.

 

Let’s see, 9 vs 9, I wonder which 9 sits NS…..

 

I currently support both alphabetic and numeric boards, by default I write alphabetical for movements up to 26 board sets.

 

By the way, the contestant numbers in the movements are of course not necessarily what the players would see. There can, and often will, be another round of renumbering in the scoring program.

 

Hans

 

From: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Rainsford
Sent: donderdag 5 juli 2012 18:30
To: Bridge Laws Mailing List
Subject: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 

It seems as though you are getting a bit bogged down in a side issue, Hans. If you want EW pairs to have unique numbers, give them unique numbers as you would for a Howell or Hesitation Mitchell. Those who prefer to use two-winner type Mitchells (with or without an arrow-switch) can do so. 

 

None of this impacts on the rounds/tables, spaces/commas and alphabetical/numerical decisions. Personally I like boardsets to be alphabetical, but maybe that's just what I'm used to. 

Gordon Rainsford


On 5 Jul 2012, at 12:59, "Hans van Staveren" <sater <at> xs4all.nl> wrote:

There is a debate possible where arrow-switches for balance must be done.

One possibility is to let the scoring program insert them, but it would be a miraculous scoring program indeed if it could do it right for all movements. My guess is that this approach is historical, and comes from the fact that you basically only played Mitchells without arrow-switches, until someone came up with the idea, and it was hacked into the scoring program.

 

Our approach is to do all the balancing stuff when you design the movement, and the scoring program should just obey.

That is why in this approach it is imperative that all contestants in a movement have separate numbers, else you would never know who is who.

 

Hans

 

From: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] On Behalf Of Gordon Rainsford
Sent: donderdag 5 juli 2012 10:07
To: Bridge Laws Mailing List
Subject: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 



On 05/07/2012 07:53, Hans van Staveren wrote:

Most of these formats are for transferring bridge results. This is far removed from movement data.

Indeed.


The EBU stuff does contain one chapter about movements, but apart from being far from simple to parse it contains start and end board numbers.

The EBU book and Scorebridge just contain alphabetical sets that can be of any size.


This is normally not included in movements. You should be able to use the same movement for 2 board rounds or 3 board rounds(or 4 board as is the custom in my strange country).

The Jeff Smith format includes boardset sizes so as to make the full movement close to 24 boards as a default, but this can be easily over-ridden when setting up the movement. The individual cells just contain numeric sets in exactly the same way as the example you gave, Hans.

Do the programs you use not allow for decisions about arrow-switching, board-set size, and EW numbering to be made when setting up the event?

Gordon Rainsford

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Steve Willner | 5 Jul 2012 21:01
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

On 2012-07-05 1:14 PM, Hans van Staveren wrote:
> Actually I do not think there is a standard.

Seems likely to me.  A zip file discussing web movements is at
http://web.mit.edu/mitdlbc/www/manager/Web_movements.zip

It contains (in addition to text in a pdf file) .mov files for 
ACBLscore.  They're in some binary format, so probably not directly helpful.

As Barry wrote earlier, the ACBL is in the midst of a major revision of 
ACBLscore.  No telling whether the file format will change.  If it does, 
I hope someone will provide a tool to translate old files to the new format.
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Ed Reppert | 5 Jul 2012 23:55
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software


On Jul 5, 2012, at 3:01 PM, Steve Willner wrote:

> As Barry wrote earlier, the ACBL is in the midst of a major revision of 
> ACBLscore.  No telling whether the file format will change.  If it does, 
> I hope someone will provide a tool to translate old files to the new format.

Barry who? :-)

The file format *will* change, because they're going to use XML. As I read the information available, the
developers (and ACBL HQ) are greatly concerned that the transition be easy and that all necessary tools be
available. I didn't see anything specific about converting old file formats to new, but I imagine they'll
get to it. You can voice this concern to them, if you like, on the acblscore+ website, which I believe I
linked upthread.

Not Barry.
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Sven Pran | 6 Jul 2012 00:42
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

In case anybody is interested here is how movements are described internally
with Bridgemate:
(.bws table "RoundData")

"RoundData"  contains one record for each table/Round and has the following
fields:

Section
Table
Round
NSPair
EWPair
LowBoard
HighBoard 
CustomBoards

For a Mitchell event the first few records might be as follows:
1 1 1 1 101 1 3
1 1 2 1 102 4 6
1 1 3 1 103 7 9

Showing that pair 1 remains seated NS and that pairs 101 through 103 play EW
at table 1 during the first three rounds, the boards played are 1-3, 4-6 and
7-9 respectively.

(The field CustomBoards is only used as an alternative to LowBoard and
HighBoard when each boardnumber must be specified separately. Either this
field or both fields LowBoard and HighBoard are left blank.) 

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Sven Pran | 5 Jul 2012 10:45
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

Have you looked at: http://www.tistis.nl/pbn/ ?

 

Although primarily designed for reporting complete events PBN obviously includes standards for describing movements, schedules etc.

 

Fra: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] På vegne av Gordon Rainsford
Sendt: 5. juli 2012 01:33
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Emne: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 

I wonder if I'm missing something - neither of those formats seems to be aimed at doing what Hans is talking about.

Gordon Rainsford

On 05/07/2012 00:17, Ed Reppert wrote:

 

On Jul 4, 2012, at 12:39 PM, Sven Pran wrote:



I believe PBN is a standard that can cater for this purpose as well?

 

You may also want to look at Richard Pavlicek's RBN format <http://www.rpbridge.net/7a12.htm> and Thomas Andrews' article on the BridgeML project (based on XML) at <http://bridge.thomasoandrews.com/xml/>.

 

The July ACBL Bulletin has an article announcing that there is a complete re-write of ACBLScore in progress. There's a website with information about the project (I haven't looked at it in depth yet): <http://www.acblscoreplus.com/>




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Gordon Rainsford | 5 Jul 2012 11:01

Re: Movement description files for calculating software



On 05/07/2012 09:45, Sven Pran wrote:

Have you looked at: http://www.tistis.nl/pbn/ ?

Yes, I had. It says " It can be used in every bridge program for dealing, bidding, playing, and/or teaching. " No mention of movements.

 

Although primarily designed for reporting complete events PBN obviously includes standards for describing movements, schedules etc.

I must have missed the bit where it describes movements. Can you point me to that part?

Gordon Rainsford
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Sven Pran | 5 Jul 2012 11:45
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

No, pbn is apparently not primarily designed for describing movements, but the actual movements are implicitly described with the other information in a pbn file.

 

So one can use pbn and simply just skip(ignore) everything that is not relevant for movements and schedules.

 

The advantage of pbn is that it is already an established standard.

 

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Sendt: 5. juli 2012 11:02
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Emne: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 



On 05/07/2012 09:45, Sven Pran wrote:

Have you looked at: http://www.tistis.nl/pbn/ ?

Yes, I had. It says " It can be used in every bridge program for dealing, bidding, playing, and/or teaching. " No mention of movements.

 

Although primarily designed for reporting complete events PBN obviously includes standards for describing movements, schedules etc.

I must have missed the bit where it describes movements. Can you point me to that part?

Gordon Rainsford

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Gordon Rainsford | 5 Jul 2012 12:30

Re: Movement description files for calculating software

It seems to me that pbn does not in any way do what was being asked. 

Gordon Rainsford 

On 5 Jul 2012, at 10:45, "Sven Pran" <svenpran <at> online.no> wrote:

No, pbn is apparently not primarily designed for describing movements, but the actual movements are implicitly described with the other information in a pbn file.

 

So one can use pbn and simply just skip(ignore) everything that is not relevant for movements and schedules.

 

The advantage of pbn is that it is already an established standard.

 

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Sendt: 5. juli 2012 11:02
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Emne: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 



On 05/07/2012 09:45, Sven Pran wrote:

Have you looked at: http://www.tistis.nl/pbn/ ?

Yes, I had. It says " It can be used in every bridge program for dealing, bidding, playing, and/or teaching. " No mention of movements.

 

Although primarily designed for reporting complete events PBN obviously includes standards for describing movements, schedules etc.

I must have missed the bit where it describes movements. Can you point me to that part?

Gordon Rainsford

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Jose Miguel Martínez García-Ciudad | 5 Jul 2012 14:25
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software


El 05/07/2012, a las 11:45, Sven Pran escribió:

No, pbn is apparently not primarily designed for describing movements, but the actual movements are implicitly described with the other information in a pbn file.

 

So one can use pbn and simply just skip(ignore) everything that is not relevant for movements and schedules.

 

The advantage of pbn is that it is already an established standard.

 

Fra: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] På vegne av Gordon Rainsford
Sendt: 5. juli 2012 11:02
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Emne: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 



On 05/07/2012 09:45, Sven Pran wrote:

Have you looked at: http://www.tistis.nl/pbn/ ?

Yes, I had. It says " It can be used in every bridge program for dealing, bidding, playing, and/or teaching. " No mention of movements.

 

Although primarily designed for reporting complete events PBN obviously includes standards for describing movements, schedules etc.

I must have missed the bit where it describes movements. Can you point me to that part?

Gordon Rainsford

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Nigel Guthrie | 5 Jul 2012 15:08

Re: Movement description files for calculating software

Neither PBN nor RBN seem to cut the mustard. Gordon suggests three EBU ways of describing movements.  The ACBL persist in doing their own thing .  Doubtless, other local groups are feverishly working on other incompatible “standards”.  Yet another illustration of the stupidity of local regulation. What a waste of time and effort! The WBF could simply co-ordinate a Sourceforge Open-source project for all aspects of scoring. 
 
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Hans van Staveren | 5 Jul 2012 17:54
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Re: Movement description files for calculating software

Standards are never set by committees. They are set when someone does it right, makes it known, and others follow.

TCP/IP vs OSI.

 

I intend to get it right, but if someone else already did I want to know, and follow.

 

Hans

 

From: blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org [mailto:blml-bounces <at> rtflb.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Guthrie
Sent: donderdag 5 juli 2012 15:09
To: Bridge Laws Mailing List
Subject: Re: [BLML] Movement description files for calculating software

 

Neither PBN nor RBN seem to cut the mustard. Gordon suggests three EBU ways of describing movements.  The ACBL persist in doing their own thing .  Doubtless, other local groups are feverishly working on other incompatible “standards”.  Yet another illustration of the stupidity of local regulation. What a waste of time and effort! The WBF could simply co-ordinate a Sourceforge Open-source project for all aspects of scoring. 

 

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Nigel Guthrie | 5 Jul 2012 20:14

Re: Movement description files for calculating software

[Hans van Staveren]
Standards are never set by committees. They are set when someone does it 
right, makes it known, and others follow.
TCP/IP vs OSI.

[Nigel]
Duplicate Bridge has had half a dozen decades to get this right. Gordon 
indicates that there are many good candidates on which to base standards for 
movements and scoring.

Not all standards are invented by committees but most but are set by 
committees.

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