Discussion about Crokinole board game.

Eric Shultz | 17 Feb 2005 21:43

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Re: Re: Sawdust Jim


I got a Sawdust Jim board, and I've played on some
nicer boards. I would recommend his boards for a
beginner.  The differences are mostly cosmetic. 

Negative differences:

The posts are ever so slightly angled on mine. The
lines are drawn with a sharpie, and they are a little
fuzzy in spots. The outer wood of the rail and ditch
have a more "homemade" look than the others. All of
these are cosmetic and don't really affect gameplay.
Perhaps one could argue that a post leaning in a half
a millimeter would, but they'd be pretty uptight.

The one thing that did affect gameplay was that the
surface finish was not uniformly smooth at first. Some
polish or powder fixes this. I don't know if an Eagle
comes out of the box with an absolutely perfect finish
either. If there's anyone with one that has never
needed powder or polish for theirs, they could speak
to that.

Positives:

It's a real crokinole board that is well constructed.
It's at least $150 cheaper than the next step up. I've
never had a moment where I felt it didn't play well.

Summary:

(Continue reading)

J C Lawrence | 18 Feb 2005 03:29

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Re: Re: Sawdust Jim


On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:43:29 -0800 (PST) 
Eric Shultz <swift_4 <at> yahoo.com> wrote:

> It's at least $150 cheaper than the next step up. 

As the next price step up is arguably the Hilinski boards at ~$150 all
told (~30% comparative premium), is there something unsaid here?

--

-- 
J C Lawrence
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw <at> kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

Eric Shultz | 18 Feb 2005 12:40

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Re: Re: Sawdust Jim

--- J C Lawrence <claw <at> kanga.nu> wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:43:29 -0800 (PST) 
> Eric Shultz <swift_4 <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > It's at least $150 cheaper than the next step up. 
> 
> As the next price step up is arguably the Hilinski
> boards at ~$150 all
> told (~30% comparative premium), is there something
> unsaid here?

Nothing unsaid. Actually, I thought the Hilinski
boards were more expensive, and I hadn't thought about
them. Whenever the "which board" discussion comes
around, people tend to start with whatever cheaper
board they are discussing and jump up to Gray
Owl/Eagle. 

But I've since been informed that there are two others
in between (price wise) a Sawdust Jim and an Eagle.
The Heirloom and a Hilinski are not much more in terms
of dollars. I've also played Phil's Mount Doom once,
and I believe my opinion matched JC's (but don't tell
anyone else I said that).

Eric

__________________________________________________

(Continue reading)

J C Lawrence | 18 Feb 2005 13:35

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Re: Re: Sawdust Jim


On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:40:48 -0800 (PST) 
Eric Shultz <swift_4 <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- J C Lawrence <claw <at> kanga.nu> wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:43:29 -0800 (PST) Eric Shultz
>> <swift_4 <at> yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> It's at least $150 cheaper than the next step up.

>> As the next price step up is arguably the Hilinski boards at ~$150
>> all told (~30% comparative premium), is there something unsaid here?

> Nothing unsaid. 

Cool.

> Actually, I thought the Hilinski boards were more expensive...

Well, their new utterly stunning "Ses of Temptation" board is a wee bit
more expensive:

  http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/crokinole_gallery/Sea_of_temptation.jpg
  http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/inventory/index.html

Oh boy am I tempted.  If only I didn't have a leaking kitchen ceiling
and a host of other unsize-able money sumps going on right now!

> ... and I hadn't thought about them. Whenever the "which board"
> discussion comes around, people tend to start with whatever cheaper
> board they are discussing and jump up to Gray Owl/Eagle.

(Continue reading)

Joe Casadonte | 18 Feb 2005 18:31

Re: Re: Sawdust Jim


On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, J. C. Lawrence wrote:

> Well, their new utterly stunning "Ses of Temptation" board is a wee
> bit more expensive:
>
>   http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/crokinole_gallery/Sea_of_temptation.jpg
>   http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/inventory/index.html

Oh my.  Oh.  Oh.....oh....that's utterly beautiful.  I hope someone
buys that before I convince myself I need to....

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Stan Hilinski wrote:

> It's even harder for us because we are often trying something new,
> and that often opens up all kinds of new cans of worms. (Ask my
> brother Carl about his "burlap board." Ha.)

Whatever happened to that?  I remember hearing about it, or the
attempt at least.

--
Regards,

joe
Joe Casadonte
jcasadonte <at> northbound-train.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Llama Fresh Farms => http://www.northbound-train.com

(Continue reading)

J C Lawrence | 18 Feb 2005 22:41

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Re: Re: Sawdust Jim


On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:31:31 -0500
Joe Casadonte <jcasadonte <at> northbound-train.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, J. C. Lawrence wrote:

>> Well, their new utterly stunning "Ses of Temptation" board is a wee
>> bit more expensive:

>> http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/crokinole_gallery/Sea_of_temptation.jpg
>> http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/inventory/index.html

> Oh my.  Oh.  Oh.....oh....that's utterly beautiful.  I hope someone
> buys that before I convince myself I need to....

If you charged membership in that club my admission fee would be on its
way to you right now.

--
J C Lawrence
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw <at> kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

David Fair | 18 Feb 2005 22:58

Re: Re: Sawdust Jim


J C Lawrence from <claw <at> kanga.nu> writes:

> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:31:31 -0500
> Joe Casadonte <jcasadonte <at> northbound-train.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, J. C. Lawrence wrote:
> 
>>> Well, their new utterly stunning "Ses of Temptation" board is a wee
>>> bit more expensive:
> 
>>> http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/crokinole_gallery/Sea_of_temptation.jpg
>>> http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/inventory/index.html
> 
>> Oh my.  Oh.  Oh.....oh....that's utterly beautiful.  I hope someone
>> buys that before I convince myself I need to....
> 
> If you charged membership in that club my admission fee would be on its
> way to you right now.

Joe owns their Northstar board. I'm tempted to buy Sea of Temptation so he
can drool over my board as much as I do over his. :)

Thanks,
Dave
--

-- 
David Fair          dafair <at> bellatlantic.net
    "Guts win more games than ability." - Bob Zuppke

(Continue reading)

Tony Maniscalco | 19 Feb 2005 09:40

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Re: Re: Sawdust Jim

Though I haven't seen it in person or played on it, I have to say that based on the pictures, the Northstar
board is my absolute favorite board, bar none.  It is stunning!

David Fair <dafair <at> bellatlantic.net> wrote:J C Lawrence from <claw <at> kanga.nu> writes:

> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:31:31 -0500
> Joe Casadonte <jcasadonte <at> northbound-train.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, J. C. Lawrence wrote:
> 
>>> Well, their new utterly stunning "Ses of Temptation" board is a wee
>>> bit more expensive:
> 
>>> http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/crokinole_gallery/Sea_of_temptation.jpg
>>> http://www.hilinski.net/woodgames/inventory/index.html
> 
>> Oh my.  Oh.  Oh.....oh....that's utterly beautiful.  I hope someone
>> buys that before I convince myself I need to....
> 
> If you charged membership in that club my admission fee would be on its
> way to you right now.

Joe owns their Northstar board. I'm tempted to buy Sea of Temptation so he
can drool over my board as much as I do over his. :)

Thanks,
Dave
--

-- 
David Fair          dafair <at> bellatlantic.net
    "Guts win more games than ability." - Bob Zuppke

(Continue reading)

carlhilinski | 18 Feb 2005 21:02

Re: Sawdust Jim


You want to know about the burlap board, huh? Well, it was one of
those things that just didn't work out right. It sits under one of my
benches, and it occasionally sees use as a table on which things are
painted, sprayed, etc.

The plan was to put down some burlap on the playing surface and then
cover that with casting resin and then finish. The thought was that
this could lead to a "line" of boards that were built over cloth
designs (like quilt squares). It did not work. The burlap absorbed the
casting resin and the weave of the material clogged up. In the end, it
was a failed experiment. I don't think I will take that path again.

David Fair | 18 Feb 2005 13:56

Re: Re: Sawdust Jim

J C Lawrence from <claw <at> kanga.nu> writes:

> I'm increasingly
> coming to suspect that my observations of apparent unevenness in the
> surface finish of Phil A's Mt Doom and Dave Boyd's Ronin may not have
> been the Hilinski's fault.  Both Phil A and the Hilinski's have publicly
> stated that the Mt Doom board was sent out before it had been polished
> and finished to the Hilinski's satisfaction (I believe on Phil's
> insistence as he wanted to bring it to Unity Games #8(?)).  I also
> noticed that Dave Boyd's Ronin played much more evenly and smoothly
> after he gave it a vigorous burnishing/cleaning with a cloth -- which
> suggests that it may have been as simple as skin oil and other gunk
> collecting on the board over time and not any actual surface variation
> from the Hilinskis.  (I'll add a footnote to the blog entry on these
> points for when I get around to hitting publish).

I am the owner of the Hilinski's "Mercy" board, and I can state that I have
never had any trouble with any unevenness or other problems with the playing
surface. After we got it home, I used a thick terry hand towel and gave the
surface a rub down, and it was had wonderful action ever since.

We applied our first mespi application about 2 months later, and usually
reapply about a quarter teaspoon every couple months. I use a small
paintbrush to get it evenly on the surface. I prefer the board without the
rubber post columns, so they are off the wood posts.

All of the imperfections that you mention noticing in other Hilinski boards
are there in mine, however, they are what give the board it's distinctively
beautiful appearance. It is an individually made piece of art, not a

(Continue reading)

J C Lawrence | 18 Feb 2005 22:54

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Re: Re: Sawdust Jim

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:56:40 -0500
David Fair <dafair <at> bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> J C Lawrence from <claw <at> kanga.nu> writes:

> All of the imperfections that you mention noticing in other Hilinski
> boards are there in mine, however, they are what give the board it's
> distinctively beautiful appearance. It is an individually made piece
> of art, not a mass-produced utilitarian board.

Yup, this is why I comparatively described the Gray Owls as "a machine
excrescence" and "without any sense of being either an organic product
or of having been the product of humans".

One point which bears mentioning in this discussion which I know you
know, and is probably quite obvious but hasn't been explicitly stated,
is that due to crokinole being an intimately physical game, aesthetics
tend to take a larger role in the evaluations of boards than might be
expected.  In some ways I think of crokinole as a performance art rather
than a simple game of skill.

--
J C Lawrence
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw <at> kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

Tom Mechler | 18 Feb 2005 04:24

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Re: Sawdust Jim

Well,

  One thing I'm sure of is that you are a bunch of very good people
here in this group. I'm impressed by the response that I've gotten. I
want to get a board for my soon to be 13 year old (and the rest of the
family) for his birthday. I'm not quite sure yet which way I'll go but
I'll be sure to post a full review of my results here.

Thanks for all your help

Tom 

--- In Crokinole <at> yahoogroups.com, J C Lawrence <claw <at> k...> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:43:29 -0800 (PST) 
> Eric Shultz <swift_4 <at> y...> wrote:
> 
> > It's at least $150 cheaper than the next step up. 
> 
> As the next price step up is arguably the Hilinski boards at ~$150 all
> told (~30% comparative premium), is there something unsaid here?
> 
> -- 
> J C Lawrence
> ---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
> claw <at> k...               He lived as a devil, eh?
> http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

(Continue reading)

J C Lawrence | 18 Feb 2005 05:20

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Re: Re: Sawdust Jim

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:24:34 -0000
Tom Mechler <shekbo <at> yahoo.com> wrote:

> One thing I'm sure of is that you are a bunch of very good people here
> in this group. I'm impressed by the response that I've gotten. I want
> to get a board for my soon to be 13 year old (and the rest of the
> family) for his birthday. I'm not quite sure yet which way I'll go but
> I'll be sure to post a full review of my results here.

Here follows two unpublished blog entries I made last year to help bring
clarity to my own views as I was (am) thinking about getting a board.
Possibly, they may help inform your decision.  Do note that I didn't
intend them to ba an objective survey, but rather a set of mostly
personal notes of subjective impressions.  Also, please excuse the
missing links for several terms that are in fact links to external sites
in their original blog form.  I can provide the original URLs on request
if needed.

--<cut>--
Crokinole board kvetching

I've been thinking of getting a crokinole board. If you are unfamiliar
with the game, you can play online or read the rules.

There are several North American suppliers of note:

    - Mr Crokinole , most famous for his Gray Owl boards (now called
    "Eagle" due to odd confusions) which are frequently estimated to be
    the best in the world.

(Continue reading)

Chris Lohroff | 18 Feb 2005 04:33

Re: Re: Sawdust Jim

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:24:34 -0000, Tom Mechler <shekbo <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>  Well,
>  
>    One thing I'm sure of is that you are a bunch of very good people
>  here in this group. I'm impressed by the response that I've gotten. I
>  want to get a board for my soon to be 13 year old (and the rest of the
>  family) for his birthday. I'm not quite sure yet which way I'll go but
>  I'll be sure to post a full review of my results here.
>  
>  Thanks for all your help
>  
>  Tom 
>  
>  

Well this is a great game that we all enjoy.  We don't agree on which
board is best.  We don't even agree on which rules are best, but we
all agree that none of that really matters.  Pick any board and any
rules... just play the game.  That's what matters.

Let us know how it goes Tom.

lohroffc | 17 Feb 2005 22:09

Re: Sawdust Jim

--- In Crokinole <at> yahoogroups.com, Eric Shultz <swift_4 <at> y...> wrote:

> 
> Positives:
> 
> It's a real crokinole board that is well constructed.
> It's at least $150 cheaper than the next step up. I've
> never had a moment where I felt it didn't play well.

Not exactly true.  The Stratford from Crokinole.com is a step up and
it's $125 US.

I've only played on one Sawdust Jim board.  The problem I had with it
was the inconsistent finish.  I don't particularly care if a board is
consistently fast of slow, that can be adjusted with Mespi powder.  I
DO have a problem with a board that has an inconsistent finish. 
Perhaps it was an exception.  From what you're saying, it sounds as if
that was indeed the case.

Speaking for myself, my first board was an Heirloom... a midrange
board from Glenn Kuntz.  It was good enough... until I played on a
Grey Owl (aka The Eagle).  Some of it was aesthetics, but most of it
was the consistency of the surface.

Anyway, if you go with the Sawdust Jim board, let us know what you
think.  I expect you'll be happy with it.

(Continue reading)

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