NED+mta-filters | 8 May 2011 17:35

Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-external-lists-07.txt

> On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Cyrus Daboo <cyrus <at> daboo.name> wrote:
> > Works for me.

> Great.  I'd like to hear assent from Alexey and Ned before I make the
> changes.  If they agree, I'll put it in and submit an -08 version.

My main concern here is that the identifier be short and comprehensible, and
this seems to qualify. I really don't care what punctuation surrounds it as
long as it's simple, and this proposal works in that regard as well.

And while I'm happy we can finesse this particular case by using some syntax
and semantic tricks, I have to point out that some of the assertions made in
reviewing the original URL scheme proposal were quite simply wrong,  and it's
exactly the sort of mistake the IETF makes on a depressingly regular basis. 

In particular, the original response to this registration stated that:

  The use and deployment of new URI schemes in the Internet infrastructure is
  costly

This is of course true in the sense that widespread deployment in mutiple
protocols and applications is costly. But that's not what we were trying to do
and the assumption that this is what everyone who registers a URI scheme (or
media type or charset or whatever) is doing is nonsensical.

We were trying to define a mechanism for use in a single context in a single
protocol. If other protocols decided the mechanism made sufficient sense to
adopt, great, but if not that's fine too. Identifiers are cheap.

So again, being able to finesse the issue here is good. But sooner or later
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Barry Leiba | 8 May 2011 18:57
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Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-external-lists-07.txt

> And while I'm happy we can finesse this particular case by using some syntax
> and semantic tricks, I have to point out that some of the assertions made in
> reviewing the original URL scheme proposal were quite simply wrong,  and it's
> exactly the sort of mistake the IETF makes on a depressingly regular basis.
>
> In particular, the original response to this registration stated that:
>
>  The use and deployment of new URI schemes in the Internet infrastructure is
>  costly
...
> So again, being able to finesse the issue here is good. But sooner or later
> we're going to have to face up to the fact that our, I guess I'd call it
> registration philosophy, is increasingly at odds with how protocols are
> actually defined and used.

Indeed, and that's what I was getting at when I said this:
> The second is possible, but I actually think it's a
> *worse* idea to define a URN namespace for "addrbook" than it is to
> make a URI scheme for it.

I don't see the harm to the Internet, to the registry, or to the
concept of URIs of being fairly free in approving new URI schemes.
But unless we rev BCP 115 (RFC 4395), that won't change.

Barry
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Alexey Melnikov | 9 May 2011 17:57
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Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-external-lists-07.txt

NED+mta-filters <at> mauve.mrochek.com wrote:

>>On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Cyrus Daboo <cyrus <at> daboo.name> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Works for me.
>>>      
>>>
>>Great.  I'd like to hear assent from Alexey and Ned before I make the
>>changes.  If they agree, I'll put it in and submit an -08 version.
>>    
>>
>
>My main concern here is that the identifier be short and comprehensible, and
>this seems to qualify. I really don't care what punctuation surrounds it as
>long as it's simple, and this proposal works in that regard as well.
>  
>
I am Ok with it as well.

>And while I'm happy we can finesse this particular case by using some syntax
>and semantic tricks, I have to point out that some of the assertions made in
>reviewing the original URL scheme proposal were quite simply wrong,  and it's
>exactly the sort of mistake the IETF makes on a depressingly regular basis. 
>
>In particular, the original response to this registration stated that:
>
>  The use and deployment of new URI schemes in the Internet infrastructure is
>  costly
>
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Cyrus Daboo | 9 May 2011 18:17
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Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-external-lists-07.txt

Hi Alexey,

--On May 9, 2011 4:57:54 PM +0100 Alexey Melnikov 
<alexey.melnikov <at> isode.com> wrote:

>>> Great.  I'd like to hear assent from Alexey and Ned before I make the
>>> changes.  If they agree, I'll put it in and submit an -08 version.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> My main concern here is that the identifier be short and comprehensible,
>> and this seems to qualify. I really don't care what punctuation
>> surrounds it as long as it's simple, and this proposal works in that
>> regard as well.
>>
>>
> I am Ok with it as well.

OK, then once Barry updates the spec I will ask for one more week of review 
by the working group to ensure the changes are OK, then we can move ahead 
with submission to the IESG.

--

-- 
Cyrus Daboo

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Barry Leiba | 9 May 2011 18:23
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Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-external-lists-07.txt

>> I am Ok with it as well.
>
> OK, then once Barry updates the spec I will ask for one more week of review
> by the working group to ensure the changes are OK, then we can move ahead
> with submission to the IESG.

I'll try to get the changes done today or tomorrow.

Barry
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