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Arjen Lentz | 4 Jul 2012 02:20
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Quadcopter fun at UK customs

Hi all

Probably of interest to most here, given the tech used and the issues explored.

"Fresh from performing at Science Gallery in Dublin last night during the opening of Hack the City, an
English group of urbanists, technologists and architects who created GPS-enabled quadcopter drones,
were held at London Southend Airport on suspicion of terrorism and recorded under the UK’s Terrorism Act.

The group, known as Tomorrows Thoughts Today, had been performing their Electronic Countermeasures
robotic ballet in the sky show at Science Gallery for the opening of the three-month Hack the City
exhibition in Dublin City. [...]"

Early reports all over the net, for instance:
  http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/27915-quadcopter-drone-group-held

Later, the leader of the Tomorrow's Thoughts Today group Liam Young explained it all himself without
intervening embellishment by the media:
  http://arcfinity.tumblr.com/post/26154543158/liam-young-at-arcfinity-org

There is an Aussie connection... although currently based in the UK, Liam is from Brisbane: studied
architecture at UQ in St Lucia. His mum is coming over for dinner tonight. They're kinda family ;-)

Cheers,
Arjen.
--

-- 
Exec.Director  <at>  Open Query (http://openquery.com) MySQL services
Sane business strategy explorations at http://Upstarta.biz
Personal blog at http://lentz.com.au/blog/

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Brent Wallis | 4 Jul 2012 07:21
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Re: Quadcopter fun at UK customs

Hi,

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Arjen Lentz <arjen@...> wrote:
> Probably of interest to most here, given the tech used and the issues explored.
>
> "Fresh from performing at Science Gallery in Dublin last night during the opening of Hack the City, an
English group of urbanists, technologists and architects who created GPS-enabled quadcopter drones,
were held at London Southend Airport on
> suspicion of terrorism and recorded under the UK’s Terrorism Act.

...really sux and has implications for us hobbyists as well.
The state  fear seems to be based on the fact that just about anyone
can get hold of these machines.
In this case, an innocent artist gets barrelled in with bad guys.

I wonder out loud how long before there will be discussions on
restrictions around this type of  tech (Arduino and Rasberry PI as
well..)
....fearful states tend to always crack nuts with a sledghammer. :-(

BW
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Adam Nielsen | 4 Jul 2012 08:00
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Re: Quadcopter fun at UK customs

> The state  fear seems to be based on the fact that just about anyone
> can get hold of these machines.
> In this case, an innocent artist gets barrelled in with bad guys.

Where I work, part of the fire warden training is a demonstration of how 
easy it is to conceal a bomb, to persuade people to take bomb threats 
seriously even if you can't see any suspicious devices.

The presenter has a rather realistic (albeit somewhat Hollywood styled) 
fake bomb to use for this demonstration, and to my surprise, there is 
apparently no problem carrying this on a plane.  Apparently all you have 
to do is show the right kind of ID at the security checkpoint and they 
have no problem letting it through.

So I guess if you were going to travel regularly with any 
suspicious-looking equipment, it would be worth investigating if there's 
some kind of approval you can get in advance.  I would think the long 
interviews are the result of surprising someone at a security 
checkpoint, whereas giving them some forewarning and a record in the 
system they can check to verify your story would make the whole 
experience much smoother.

Cheers,
Adam.
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Brent Wallis | 4 Jul 2012 08:38
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Re: Quadcopter fun at UK customs

Hi,

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Adam Nielsen <a.nielsen@...> wrote:
>> The state  fear seems to be based on the fact that just about anyone
>> can get hold of these machines.
>> In this case, an innocent artist gets barrelled in with bad guys.
>
> Where I work, part of the fire warden training is a demonstration of how
> easy it is to conceal a bomb, to persuade people to take bomb threats
> seriously even if you can't see any suspicious devices.
Threats should always be taken seriously.
Any Australian Supermarket has the ingredients to make a bomb that
could be assembled and detonated onsite within 15 minutes.
Most supermarkets train to look out for this.

> The presenter has a rather realistic (albeit somewhat Hollywood styled)
> fake bomb to use for this demonstration, and to my surprise, there is
> apparently no problem carrying this on a plane.  Apparently all you have
> to do is show the right kind of ID at the security checkpoint and they
> have no problem letting it through.
Sorry, have to disagree there.
There is a particular passport type and specific ID  that does allow
an individual to carry a weapon...but there is no ID that would allow
a suspicious package.
In fact, holders of such IDs are scrutinised to the hilt on entry and exit .

>
> So I guess if you were going to travel regularly with any
> suspicious-looking equipment, it would be worth investigating if there's
> some kind of approval you can get in advance.
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Arjen Lentz | 4 Jul 2012 09:10
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Re: Quadcopter fun at UK customs

Hi Brent

> > I would think the long
> > interviews are the result of surprising someone at a security
> > checkpoint, whereas giving them some forewarning and a record in the
> > system they can check to verify your story would make the whole
> > experience much smoother.

> But is a Quad Copter suspicious?
> There were many of these in the display mentioned and my guess is that
> they would not have been part of carry on luggage.
> They have been declared on entry.
> The bad bit is how the individual was scrutinised as a terrorist...
> Drug dealers would get a better deal.

One thing to realise is that UK is in a bit of a funny mood with the Olympics happening, to the point of
discussing anti-aircraft missiles stationed in the London area. If that isn't a clear indication that
some people and organisations have gone more than a tad bananas, I dunno what is. Just imagine what happens
when you actually shoot down a flying object. Yes, it comes down anyway. Gravity will do that, but now
there's lots more bits.
This was discovered long ago when skud missiles from Iraq were aimed at Israeli targets, and the Dutch
supplied Patriot missile batteries. The results were really worse than the problem, which was
admittedly not nice in itself.

However, the technology and the people in this story are still victims of this situation.
There are valid things to debate and that's exactly what Liam and his group aim for.
This doesn't help.

Cheers,
Arjen.
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David Newall | 4 Jul 2012 09:26

Re: Quadcopter fun at UK customs

On 04/07/12 17:10, Arjen Lentz wrote:
> One thing to realise is that UK is in a bit of a funny mood with the 
> Olympics happening, to the point of discussing anti-aircraft missiles 
> stationed in the London area. If that isn't a clear indication that 
> some people and organisations have gone more than a tad bananas, I 
> dunno what is.

Putting missiles on residential roofs seems extremely foolish to me.  I 
should think obtaining a missile and sneaking it into London would be 
much, much harder than overpowering the (as reported) three soldiers in 
charge of each of them.  Cheaper, too.  It almost seems that somebody in 
charge *wants* a successful terrorist attack.
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James Turnbull | 4 Jul 2012 19:00
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Re: Quadcopter fun at UK customs


Arjen Lentz wrote:
> 
> One thing to realise is that UK is in a bit of a funny mood with the
> Olympics happening, to the point of discussing anti-aircraft missiles
> stationed in the London area. If that isn't a clear indication that
> some people and organisations have gone more than a tad bananas, I
> dunno what is. Just imagine what happens when you actually shoot down
> a flying object. Yes, it comes down anyway. Gravity will do that, but
> now there's lots more bits. This was discovered long ago when skud
> missiles from Iraq were aimed at Israeli targets, and the Dutch
> supplied Patriot missile batteries. The results were really worse
> than the problem, which was admittedly not nice in itself.
n.

For those of us that spend a lot of time in the UK the question will be:
"Will they wind back all of these security measures when the Olympics is
over." I suspect many organisations will find their new powers very
useful and find ways to hold onto them.

But largely the lack of oversight and appeal is the part that greatly
worries me - security is fine if checks and balances are in place. As
soon as you remove the checks and balances security frequently becomes
totalitarian in behaviour. We see this time and time again in technology
when government attacks things (encryption for example) that they
perceive threatens their security controls or that they don't understand.

Regards

James Turnbull
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