gmane.linux.debian.devel.announce

Joerg Jaspert | 21 Sep 16:58

ssh.upload.debian.org

Hi

as the possibility to upload via ssh is something people like
we just setup an upload queue supporting this.

If you want to upload using ssh please use the hostname
ssh.upload.debian.org and place the files into
/srv/upload.debian.org/UploadQueue to get them processed.

If you use this upload queue you will receive one more mail about your
upload, at the time our queue daemon moves your files over to the
ftp.upload.debian.org host.

ssh.upload.d.o does support .commands files to remove broken uploads.

The DELAYED queue is *not* supported using ssh. If you want to upload
something with a delay, you have to use ftp.

Please always only use the symbolic names for the places to upload to
(ie ftp.upload.debian.org and ssh.upload.debian.org), do not use any
machine name directly. Queues may move at any time, without further
notice and the symbolic names will be updated.

--

-- 
bye, Joerg
<Joey> Joey, provide a patch then.

Steve Langasek | 29 Sep 06:51

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 04:59:58PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> Please always only use the symbolic names for the places to upload to
> (ie ftp.upload.debian.org and ssh.upload.debian.org), do not use any
> machine name directly. Queues may move at any time, without further
> notice and the symbolic names will be updated.

What conceivable reason is there for ever moving the ftp queue off of
ftp-master?  It doesn't make sense to force everyone to switch their configs
from ftp-master.debian.org to ftp.upload.debian.org unless there was an
expectation that the queue would be moved, and I can't see any way that this
would ever be desirable.  What byzantine model for uploads is being
proposed, and why?

--

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek <at> ubuntu.com                                     vorlon <at> debian.org

Thomas Bushnell BSG | 29 Sep 06:57

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 21:51 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 04:59:58PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > Please always only use the symbolic names for the places to upload to
> > (ie ftp.upload.debian.org and ssh.upload.debian.org), do not use any
> > machine name directly. Queues may move at any time, without further
> > notice and the symbolic names will be updated.
> 
> What conceivable reason is there for ever moving the ftp queue off of
> ftp-master?  It doesn't make sense to force everyone to switch their configs
> from ftp-master.debian.org to ftp.upload.debian.org unless there was an
> expectation that the queue would be moved, and I can't see any way that this
> would ever be desirable.  What byzantine model for uploads is being
> proposed, and why?

The best part is that I thought ftp-master.debian.org *IS* a symbolic
name, as opposed to ries.debian.org which seems like the actual machine
name.

Thomas

Joerg Jaspert | 29 Sep 08:02

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

>> > Please always only use the symbolic names for the places to upload to
>> > (ie ftp.upload.debian.org and ssh.upload.debian.org), do not use any
>> > machine name directly. Queues may move at any time, without further
>> > notice and the symbolic names will be updated.
>> What conceivable reason is there for ever moving the ftp queue off of
>> ftp-master?  It doesn't make sense to force everyone to switch their configs
>> from ftp-master.debian.org to ftp.upload.debian.org unless there was an
>> expectation that the queue would be moved, and I can't see any way that this
>> would ever be desirable.  What byzantine model for uploads is being
>> proposed, and why?
> The best part is that I thought ftp-master.debian.org *IS* a symbolic
> name, as opposed to ries.debian.org which seems like the actual machine
> name.

Yes, but it is used for many other things too, so impossible to move
elsewhere in case a machine goes down temporarily.
The .upload.d.o aren't used for anything else, so it is *easy* to move
them around. Which enables us to keep the upload queue working even if
ries would be down for only a day or so (which is no reason to do the
lot of work to have all moved thats attached to the ftp-master name).

(Of course shorter downtimes wont benefit from this, as it takes DNS a
while to update and planned downtimes (like for reboots) dont really
warrant such things. But anything more...)

--

-- 
bye, Joerg
<Zugschlus> Sven Luther hat doch eine schwere Wahrnehmungsstörung, oder?
<Zugschlus> der Mann ist ja schlimmer als ich

(Continue reading)

Thomas Bushnell BSG | 29 Sep 06:58

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 21:51 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 04:59:58PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > Please always only use the symbolic names for the places to upload to
> > (ie ftp.upload.debian.org and ssh.upload.debian.org), do not use any
> > machine name directly. Queues may move at any time, without further
> > notice and the symbolic names will be updated.
> 
> What conceivable reason is there for ever moving the ftp queue off of
> ftp-master?  It doesn't make sense to force everyone to switch their configs
> from ftp-master.debian.org to ftp.upload.debian.org unless there was an
> expectation that the queue would be moved, and I can't see any way that this
> would ever be desirable.  What byzantine model for uploads is being
> proposed, and why?

The best part is that I thought ftp-master.debian.org *IS* a symbolic
name, as opposed to ries.debian.org which seems like the actual machine
name.

Thomas

Joerg Jaspert | 29 Sep 07:59

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org


>> Please always only use the symbolic names for the places to upload to
>> (ie ftp.upload.debian.org and ssh.upload.debian.org), do not use any
>> machine name directly. Queues may move at any time, without further
>> notice and the symbolic names will be updated.
> What conceivable reason is there for ever moving the ftp queue off of
> ftp-master?  It doesn't make sense to force everyone to switch their configs
> from ftp-master.debian.org to ftp.upload.debian.org unless there was an
> expectation that the queue would be moved, and I can't see any way that this
> would ever be desirable.  What byzantine model for uploads is being
> proposed, and why?

How about an easy way to continue to be able to upload, even in the case
ftp-master is down?

Feel free to keep your config as is if you don't like the new one hostname, but
dont whine if it stops working, you have been warned. :)

Also, is it really interesting to the average DD where this queue is?
People should be able to upload and expect their packages to end up in
the archive. It really *absolutely* does not matter if that upload goes
straight to ftp-master or to a different host first?!

--

-- 
bye, Joerg
00:00:11 <LupusE> goebelmeier: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html <-
warum steht hier 'mplayer'? ist das eine whishlist?

Thomas Bushnell BSG | 29 Sep 08:20

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

On Mon, 2008-09-29 at 07:59 +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> Also, is it really interesting to the average DD where this queue is?
> People should be able to upload and expect their packages to end up in
> the archive. It really *absolutely* does not matter if that upload goes
> straight to ftp-master or to a different host first?!

You're missing the point.  It doesn't matter to me at all that the queue
is on ries; I didn't know that until I looked it up.  It is
"ries.debian.org" which is the host name.

You are continuing to scold people for using machine names, when that's
not the issue.  You are asking people to switch from one symbolic name
to using a different symbolic name.  Nobody is using the machine name,
I'll venture to say.

Moreover, I use ftp-master.debian.org because that's what I was told to
do when we switched to the current upload procedure via anonymous-ftp.

I don't object to you deciding that we should switch names again.  But
please just say, "you used to use symbolic name X, but that is tied with
several other services. we want to split those services into different
symbolic names. so for uploads, please use the new name Y."

Instead, you seem to be saying, "how could anyone be so stupid as to use
a non-symbolic name?" when nobody is actually being that stupid.  We're
just using the symbolic name we were told to use the last time the names
were changed.

Thomas

(Continue reading)

Joerg Jaspert | 29 Sep 10:15

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org


> Instead, you seem to be saying, "how could anyone be so stupid as to use
> a non-symbolic name?" when nobody is actually being that stupid.  We're
> just using the symbolic name we were told to use the last time the names
> were changed.

I never intended to say that and my initial mail didnt do that (pasted
below).

------------
ftp.upload.debian.org
---------------------
To untie the upload queue from the archive DSA setup an alias to be used
for future uploads. Please change your configuration of dput, dupload or
whatever you use to no longer use ftp-master.debian.org but
ftp.upload.debian.org instead.
------------

> Moreover, I use ftp-master.debian.org because that's what I was told to
> do when we switched to the current upload procedure via anonymous-ftp.

Yes, and until recently that was the way to go.

> I don't object to you deciding that we should switch names again.  But
> please just say, "you used to use symbolic name X, but that is tied with
> several other services. we want to split those services into different
> symbolic names. so for uploads, please use the new name Y."

Now, isnt "To untie the upload queue from the archive" that? At least
that was my understanding of it.

(Continue reading)

Simon Huggins | 30 Sep 10:17

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 10:15:58AM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > Instead, you seem to be saying, "how could anyone be so stupid as to use
> > a non-symbolic name?" when nobody is actually being that stupid.  We're
> > just using the symbolic name we were told to use the last time the names
> > were changed.
> I never intended to say that and my initial mail didnt do that (pasted
> below).

> ------------
> ftp.upload.debian.org
> ---------------------
> To untie the upload queue from the archive DSA setup an alias to be used
> for future uploads. Please change your configuration of dput, dupload or
> whatever you use to no longer use ftp-master.debian.org but
> ftp.upload.debian.org instead.
> ------------

Your second mail (the one referenced in this thread) said:
	Please always only use the symbolic names for the places to upload to
	(ie ftp.upload.debian.org and ssh.upload.debian.org), do not use any
	machine name directly. Queues may move at any time, without further
	notice and the symbolic names will be updated.

That seems to reflect what Thomas was saying.  People using ftp-master
weren't using the machine name directly yet this symbolic name isn't
going to move it seems.

Perhaps you could have considered moving all the internal scripts that
reference ftp-master to some other service name rather than trying to
change every single dput config file out there in the wild and the

(Continue reading)

Stefano Zacchiroli | 30 Sep 10:41

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 09:17:44AM +0100, Simon Huggins wrote:
> Your second mail (the one referenced in this thread) said:

Can please someone tell me exactly for the sake of what, we are having
this sub-thread? It just looks pointless to me ...

Pretty please, drop it, and go back helping kicking out a release.

--

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
I'm still an SGML person,this newfangled /\ All one has to do is hit the
XML stuff is so ... simplistic  -- Manoj \/ right keys at the right time

Peter Palfrader | 30 Sep 11:11

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 09:17:44AM +0100, Simon Huggins wrote:
> > Your second mail (the one referenced in this thread) said:
> 
> Can please someone tell me exactly for the sake of what, we are having
> this sub-thread? It just looks pointless to me ...

It's just the usual nit-picking on anybody who actually does anything to
improve our infrastructure.  It's pretty common around here, people
probably use it to show how much they care about the project and how, if
only we would let them, they could do it all so much better.  Also see
bike-shedding.
--

-- 
                           |  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux **
      Peter Palfrader      | : :' :      The  universal
 http://www.palfrader.org/ | `. `'      Operating System
                           |   `-    http://www.debian.org/

MJ Ray | 30 Sep 11:32

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

Peter Palfrader <weasel <at> debian.org> wrote: [...]
> It's just the usual nit-picking on anybody who actually does anything to
> improve our infrastructure.  [...]

It's also combined with the usual failure by many people who improve
our infrastructure to accept they wrote a confusing email (ftp-master
is a symbolic name, even though it's not the best symbolic name for an
upload server these days) and stop the thread, preferring instead to
keep flaming other DDs and spinning the wheels.

Posting a simple mail like "I can't predict why we might want to move
it, but it seems like a possibility we should leave open and yes,
ftp-master was a symbolic name, but isn't the best one now. Please use
the new symbolic names." a few messages back might have stopped this.

Hope that helps,
--

-- 
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

Peter Palfrader | 30 Sep 11:38

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, MJ Ray wrote:

> Posting a simple mail like "I can't predict why we might want to move
> it, but it seems like a possibility we should leave open and yes,
> ftp-master was a symbolic name, but isn't the best one now. Please use
> the new symbolic names." a few messages back might have stopped this.

It also isn't accurate.  The name was changed for the very reason that
upload place should be uncoupled from archive maint place, for the few
times where ries does go down.  It was proposed when this happened last
time, a few weeks back.

Just because *you* don't get it doesn't mean it's stupid.
--

-- 
                           |  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux **
      Peter Palfrader      | : :' :      The  universal
 http://www.palfrader.org/ | `. `'      Operating System
                           |   `-    http://www.debian.org/

MJ Ray | 30 Sep 13:15

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

Peter Palfrader <weasel <at> debian.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, MJ Ray wrote:
> > Posting a simple mail like "I can't predict why we might want to move
> > it, but it seems like a possibility we should leave open and yes,
> > ftp-master was a symbolic name, but isn't the best one now. Please use
> > the new symbolic names." a few messages back might have stopped this.
>
> It also isn't accurate.  The name was changed for the very reason that
> upload place should be uncoupled from archive maint place, for the few
> times where ries does go down.  It was proposed when this happened last
> time, a few weeks back.

Yes! ftp-master isn't the best symbolic name for the upload place now!

If someone can predict why we might want to move it then fine, by all
means change the message to give the reason.  The above advice remains
good in general terms.

> Just because *you* don't get it doesn't mean it's stupid.

Indeed, but if several DDs didn't get it and were even willing to
brave the typical debian email abuse to query it, that may mean it was
confusing.  Confusing is not the same as stupid and it could have been
clarified without all this heat.  (*I* got it, BTW.)

Hope that explains,
--

-- 
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

(Continue reading)

s. keeling | 1 Oct 05:26

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

Peter Palfrader <weasel <at> debian.org>:
>  On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, MJ Ray wrote:
> 
> > Posting a simple mail like "I can't predict why we might want to move
> > it, but it seems like a possibility we should leave open and yes,
> > ftp-master was a symbolic name, but isn't the best one now. Please use
> > the new symbolic names." a few messages back might have stopped this.
> 
>  It also isn't accurate.  The name was changed for the very reason that
>  upload place should be uncoupled from archive maint place, for the few
>  times where ries does go down.  It was proposed when this happened last
>  time, a few weeks back.
> 
>  Just because *you* don't get it doesn't mean it's stupid.

Reading this, it looks like a classic "Debian gotcha", as in, "Oh!
You didn't know we were going that way?  Read Changelog!"  Except this
one bites DDs instead of users.  Welcome to the party.

I wonder if one of these days /etc is going to be bound up in a
reiserfs based registry.

Just kidding, sorta.

--

-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html      Linux Counter #80292
- -    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html    Please, don't Cc: me.

(Continue reading)

s. keeling | 1 Oct 05:18

Re: ssh.upload.debian.org

["Followup-To:" header set to linux.debian.curiosa.]
Peter Palfrader <weasel <at> debian.org>:
>  bike-shedding.

Thanks, interesting segue.  http://www.bikeshed.com/ should be
mentioned.  Long, but well worth the read.

--

-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html      Linux Counter #80292
- -    http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html    Please, don't Cc: me.

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