gmane.linux.debian.devel.project

Re: Planet policy?

On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 17:54 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
> Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...

I don't think there's no policy.

Rumors say that only Debian collaborators could be aggregated and no
websites. That's mostly the policy I'm aware of. Besides, from my
experience administering a couple of heavily visited aggregators,
providing very strict policy on them is a huge pain in the arse, both
for readers, administrators and bloggers. I really think it's OK the way
it is, since it's not behaved shamelessly.

Cheers,

--
David Moreno Garza <damog <at> espiral.org.mx> | http://www.damog.net/
 If you got a big ride...

headers

Floris Bruynooghe | 5 Aug 01:50

Re: Planet policy?

On Sat, Aug 04, 2007 at 04:22:44PM -0500, David Moreno Garza wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 17:54 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> > blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
> > Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
> 
> I don't think there's no policy.
> 
> Rumors say that only Debian collaborators could be aggregated and no
> websites. That's mostly the policy I'm aware of.

Personally I think it's often rather interesting if a Debian
collaborator writes about non-Debian things.  The collaborative other
interests of all of them is a curious picture and often tells
something about other (interesting) free software related
activities/projects.

> I really think it's OK the way
> it is, since it's not behaved shamelessly.

So I mostly agree with this.

Regards
Floris

--

-- 
Debian GNU/Linux -- The Power of Freedom
www.debian.org | www.gnu.org | www.kernel.org

(Continue reading)

headers

David Moreno Garza | 5 Aug 04:48

Re: Planet policy?

On Sun, 2007-08-05 at 00:50 +0100, Floris Bruynooghe wrote:
> Personally I think it's often rather interesting if a Debian
> collaborator writes about non-Debian things.  The collaborative other
> interests of all of them is a curious picture and often tells
> something about other (interesting) free software related
> activities/projects.

Exactly, I was only meaning that the only apparent requirement (or
wannabe policy) is being a Debian development collaborator.

--
David Moreno Garza <damog <at> espiral.org.mx> | http://www.damog.net/
 Te dimos un arma para cuidarnos y el arma que usas la usas para robarnos.

headers

MJ Ray | 6 Aug 13:40

Re: Planet policy?

David Moreno Garza <damog <at> espiral.org.mx> wrote:
> Exactly, I was only meaning that the only apparent requirement (or
> wannabe policy) is being a Debian development collaborator.

and posting in English.

However, I feel there have been some nasty unsubscriptions before.

Why not ask Ian Murdock by email to increase his debian content,
reduce his Solaris content or reconsider his planet feeding, if that's
what's wanted?

Regards,
--

-- 
MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op.
Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/

headers

Pierre Habouzit | 4 Aug 23:39

Re: Planet policy?

On Sat, Aug 04, 2007 at 05:54:12PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
> Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...

  Well, maybe in 2 or 3 years he'll be on-topic, no so long time ago, it
was about Windows, at least Solaris is an Unix.

  *cough*
--

-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O                                                madcoder <at> debian.org
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

headers

Marco d'Itri | 5 Aug 04:00

Re: Planet policy?

steve <at> einval.com wrote:

>Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
>blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
>Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
>
>Thoughts?

His blog is way more interesting than some other people's blogs which
apparently have no noticeable Debian-related (or UN*X-related, for what
matters) content.
If you do not agree with him just flame him from your blog in the fine
tradition of Planet Debian.

--

-- 
ciao,
Marco

headers

Kevin Mark | 7 Aug 03:00

Re: Planet policy?

On Sun, Aug 05, 2007 at 04:00:46AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> steve <at> einval.com wrote:
> 
> >Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> >blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
> >Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
> >
> >Thoughts?
> 
> His blog is way more interesting than some other people's blogs which
> apparently have no noticeable Debian-related (or UN*X-related, for what
> matters) content.
> If you do not agree with him just flame him from your blog in the fine
> tradition of Planet Debian.
> 
Daniel Robbins is on a gentoo planet even though he no longer leads the
project and worked for microsoft. I find Ian's posts interesting, and I
like the technology "big picture" posts he sometimes writes even if its more
sun-related now. Someone mentioned that Debian should look to learn from
other distros, this is one way to get some 'inside' insight into Sun, I
guess. And Sun has collaberated on getting Java into Debian, So Ian is
at a few nexus points: past DPL, tech leader, Sun guy, past Debian
contributer, FS advocate. 
--

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |       my web site:           |
| : :' :      The  Universal     |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'      Operating System    | go to counter.li.org and     |
|   `-    http://www.debian.org/ |    be counted! #238656       |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net |     my NPO: cfsg.org         |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!              |

(Continue reading)

headers

Otavio Salvador | 4 Aug 19:16

Re: Planet policy?

Steve McIntyre <steve <at> einval.com> writes:

> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
> Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
>
> Thoughts?

I agree on disabling his blog since it has nothing related to Debian
on it, anymore.

--

-- 
        O T A V I O    S A L V A D O R
---------------------------------------------
 E-mail: otavio <at> debian.org      UIN: 5906116
 GNU/Linux User: 239058     GPG ID: 49A5F855
 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br
---------------------------------------------
"Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives
 you the whole house."

headers

Joey Hess | 7 Aug 22:14

Re: Planet policy?

I'm not sure why I seem to keep falling into the role of defending Ian
being on planet Debian, but then I don't really understand why people
keep trying to remove him for the most minor infractions[1].

Otavio Salvador wrote:
> I agree on disabling his blog since it has nothing related to Debian
> on it, anymore.

http://ianmurdock.com/2007/07/21/how-package-management-changed-everything/
Hint: contains the words "apt-get" and "Debian".

> But yes, I do think that we should at least try to keep planet without
> much noise otherwise it'll get boring to read and lose its meaning.

http://ianmurdock.com/2007/07/23/what-a-week/
This doesn't seem particularly boring, especially when it's happening to the
*founder of Debian*. I think that if Ian had happened to be one of the people
sadly killed in that explosion, the whole project would still be in mourning.

Ian could take up pig farming and blog about nothing else, and I'd still
consider his posts on topic for Planet Debian. Whether he likes it or not,
he's inextricably linked with Debian.

--

-- 
see shy jo

[1] http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/debian_founder_not_allowed_on_planet_debian.html

headers

Raphael Hertzog | 7 Aug 22:26

Re: Planet policy?

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Ian could take up pig farming and blog about nothing else, and I'd still
> consider his posts on topic for Planet Debian. Whether he likes it or not,
> he's inextricably linked with Debian.

Ack. I'd rather question the need to have Evan Prodromou's blog who is
posting very regularly and where almost none of the posts are related to
Debian (mainly wikipedia).

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/

--

-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-REQUEST <at> lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster <at> lists.debian.org

headers

Kevin Mark | 8 Aug 07:20

Re: Planet policy?

On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 10:26:55PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Ian could take up pig farming and blog about nothing else, and I'd still
> > consider his posts on topic for Planet Debian. Whether he likes it or not,
> > he's inextricably linked with Debian.
> 
> Ack. I'd rather question the need to have Evan Prodromou's blog who is
> posting very regularly and where almost none of the posts are related to
> Debian (mainly wikipedia).
> 
But then I'd never what todays date is in the French Revolutionary
Calander!1!1 That alone give his blog a certain 'caché'  But
seriously, I like reading about wiki technology and the other FLOSS
things and conferences. IIRC he's also a DD (2005).
-K
--

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |       my web site:           |
| : :' :      The  Universal     |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'      Operating System    | go to counter.li.org and     |
|   `-    http://www.debian.org/ |    be counted! #238656       |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net |     my NPO: cfsg.org         |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!              |
|_______  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed _______|

headers

Raphael Hertzog | 8 Aug 08:26

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007, Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 10:26:55PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > On Tue, 07 Aug 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > Ian could take up pig farming and blog about nothing else, and I'd still
> > > consider his posts on topic for Planet Debian. Whether he likes it or not,
> > > he's inextricably linked with Debian.
> > 
> > Ack. I'd rather question the need to have Evan Prodromou's blog who is
> > posting very regularly and where almost none of the posts are related to
> > Debian (mainly wikipedia).
> > 
> But then I'd never what todays date is in the French Revolutionary
> Calander!1!1 That alone give his blog a certain 'caché'  But
> seriously, I like reading about wiki technology and the other FLOSS
> things and conferences. IIRC he's also a DD (2005).

I'm sure there's a planet wikipedia to suit your needs. This is "Planet
Debian" so it should be mainly about Debian. Of course Debian contributors
can speak about something else from time to time, but when it's >60% (or
whatever high percentage we could decide of) of the posts, then
the person should really use a dedicated feed for Planet Debian and select
only Debian related posts (or at least a majority of Debian posts).

BTW CCing Evan to let him know.

Cheers,
--

-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :

(Continue reading)

headers

MJ Ray | 8 Aug 09:29

Re: Planet policy?

Raphael Hertzog <hertzog <at> debian.org> wrote:
> I'm sure there's a planet wikipedia to suit your needs. This is "Planet
> Debian" so it should be mainly about Debian. Of course Debian contributors
> can speak about something else from time to time, but when it's >60% (or
> whatever high percentage we could decide of) of the posts, then
> the person should really use a dedicated feed for Planet Debian and select
> only Debian related posts (or at least a majority of Debian posts).

I feel Planet Debian is about Debian contributors, not Debian
contributions and that's the way it should be.  Debian is the people.

The above condition seems silly: I doubt many contributors spend >60%
of our online time on Debian, let alone 60% of stuff worth writing up.

Also, some Debian work is reported automatically, so reproducing that
on Planet Debian would be pointless duplication and just linking it
isn't that interesting.

I like learning about what other stuff Debian contributors do.

FWIW, my blog has its mix set explicitly and currently consists of
      6 parts business
      4 parts environmental/local/cycling
      7 parts hacking
and I'm currently considering whether to split them completely for
commercial reasons.

Regards,
--

-- 
MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html

(Continue reading)

headers

Evan Prodromou | 8 Aug 18:44

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, 2007-08-08 at 08:26 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:

> BTW CCing Evan to let him know.

Thanks, Raphael.

I've heard from people who really like reading my blog posts on Planet
Debian, and people who really hate them.

The people who like my blog can add it to their feed readers directly.
I believe I've followed the rules for PD, but there's no point
antagonizing people who don't want to read it.

So, I've removed the feed. Old posts should roll off the end in a day or
two, or if there's some sense of urgency, I guess Mako can clear them
out by hand.

-Evan

--

-- 
Evan Prodromou <evan <at> debian.org>
Debian http://www.debian.org/

headers

Evan Prodromou | 8 Aug 19:33

Re: Planet policy?

Correction: it looks like Planet is smart enough to trim out old posts
automatically.

-Evan

--

-- 
Evan Prodromou - evan <at> prodromou.name - http://evan.prodromou.name/

Attachment (smime.p7s): application/x-pkcs7-signature, 4422 bytes

headers

Alexander Schmehl | 9 Aug 10:40

Re: Planet policy?

Hi!

* Evan Prodromou <evan <at> debian.org> [070808 18:44]:

> I've heard from people who really like reading my blog posts on Planet
> Debian, and people who really hate them.
[..]
> So, I've removed the feed. Old posts should roll off the end in a day or
> two, or if there's some sense of urgency, I guess Mako can clear them
> out by hand.

Why?  I must confess that I am more in the "haters" group, than in the
"lovers" group, and as one of those, I really don't see a problem in
skipping your blog posts, as I don't see a reason for you to remove your
blog.

Yours sincerely,
  Alexander, whose quite often posting off-topic stuff to planet, too

headers

Adeodato Simó | 9 Aug 10:49

Re: Planet policy?

* Alexander Schmehl [Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:40:35 +0200]:

> * Evan Prodromou <evan <at> debian.org> [070808 18:44]:

> > I've heard from people who really like reading my blog posts on Planet
> > Debian, and people who really hate them.
> [..]
> > So, I've removed the feed. Old posts should roll off the end in a day or
> > two, or if there's some sense of urgency, I guess Mako can clear them
> > out by hand.

> Why?  I must confess that I am more in the "haters" group, than in the
> "lovers" group, and as one of those, I really don't see a problem in
> skipping your blog posts, as I don't see a reason for you to remove your
> blog.

From my, with all due respect, "hater" position, I think the same.
Particularly if you have evidence *some* people enjoy reading you via
Planet.

Cheers,

--

-- 
Adeodato Simó                                     dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer                                  adeodato at debian.org

One look at the From:
understanding has blossomed
.procmailrc grows
                -- Alexander Viro <viro <at> math.psu.edu> on linux-kernel

(Continue reading)

headers

Evan Prodromou | 9 Aug 15:26

Re: Re: Planet policy?

OK, so, based on this feedback, I've reënabled the feed, and I'm
unlikely to remove it again without good reason.

-Evan

-- 
Evan Prodromou <evan <at> debian.org>

--

-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-REQUEST <at> lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster <at> lists.debian.org

headers

Benj. Mako Hill | 14 Aug 14:12

Re: Planet policy?

> 
> The people who like my blog can add it to their feed readers directly.
> I believe I've followed the rules for PD, but there's no point

I believe you've followed the rules as well. As you mentioned on your
blog, planet is for active participants in Debian, not for posts about
Debian only. The "rules" have been pretty clearly described here:

  http://wiki.debian.org/PlanetDebian

I've gone back and made it more explicit just in case.

I should probably link that page from planet.debian.org itself.

Later,
Mako

--

-- 
Benjamin Mako Hill
mako <at> debian.org
http://mako.cc/

headers

David Moreno Garza | 8 Aug 22:09

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, 2007-08-08 at 08:26 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> This is "Planet Debian" so it should be mainly about Debian. 

I'm sorry for disagreeing.

This is "Planet Debian", so it should be mainly about Debian Developers
(or contributors, people making Debian) whether they like to write and
blog their work on Debian or in other field of their interest. Planets
are around people working on a common spot, but around people anyway.

--
David Moreno Garza <damog <at> espiral.org.mx> | http://www.damog.net/
 How To Quote Emails: <http://url.damog.net/UJH>

headers

Wouter Verhelst | 9 Aug 16:09

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 08:26:52AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> This is "Planet Debian" so it should be mainly about Debian.

I disagree. A blog is what a person thinks about; a planet is an
aggregation of blogs of people who have one particular thing in common.

It's clear from the above that "this is Planet Debian" does not
necessary imply "this is about Debian, only" or even "this is mainly
about Debian". Personally, I think that's a good thing -- if not for
Planet Debian, I wouldn't have known that Evan does a lot of wiki stuff,
that the Wammu upstream author is a Debian Developer, that I disagree
with Anthony Towns on a number of details about what Free Software
is about, and that I just don't like Someone Who Shall Not Be Named. All
that knowledge can be useful from time to time, all of it in a Debian
context. If Planet Debian wouldn't have these blogs that rarely talk
about Debian, I wouldn't know this.

I read Planet Debian with liferea, and yes, there are a number of people
who's posts I usually skip with 'Ctrl-N'; and yes my "Unread posts"
vfolder is modified so that it skips posts by this Someone Who Shall Not
Be Named. But there are a number of people whos posts I /do/ like to
read, even if they're not very often writing about Debian...

--

-- 
<Lo-lan-do> Home is where you have to wash the dishes.
  -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22

headers

Mike Hommey | 8 Aug 08:11

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 01:20:30AM -0400, Kevin Mark <kevin.mark <at> verizon.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 10:26:55PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > On Tue, 07 Aug 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > Ian could take up pig farming and blog about nothing else, and I'd still
> > > consider his posts on topic for Planet Debian. Whether he likes it or not,
> > > he's inextricably linked with Debian.
> > 
> > Ack. I'd rather question the need to have Evan Prodromou's blog who is
> > posting very regularly and where almost none of the posts are related to
> > Debian (mainly wikipedia).
> > 
> But then I'd never what todays date is in the French Revolutionary
> Calander!1!1 That alone give his blog a certain 'caché'  But

That's cachet. Not every french word has an acute accent ;)

(caché also exists but is a past participle and means hidden)

> seriously, I like reading about wiki technology and the other FLOSS
> things and conferences. IIRC he's also a DD (2005).

seriously, when there's something that is not interesting to me on
planet debian, I just don't read it. Is it that difficult to not read ?

Mike

--

-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-REQUEST <at> lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster <at> lists.debian.org

(Continue reading)

headers

MJ Ray | 8 Aug 09:32

Re: Planet policy?

Mike Hommey <mh <at> glandium.org> wrote:
> seriously, when there's something that is not interesting to me on
> planet debian, I just don't read it. Is it that difficult to not read ?

Actually, it's harder than it could be.  Can anyone see how to add
alterslash.org-style "Skip" links to the top of each item in Planet?
I can't figure it out.  (Bonus points if the link stays under the
pointer after clicking, instead of moving around like alterslash's.)

Thanks,
--

-- 
MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op.
Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/

headers

Mike Hommey | 8 Aug 09:50

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 08:32:43AM +0100, MJ Ray <mjr <at> phonecoop.coop> wrote:
> Mike Hommey <mh <at> glandium.org> wrote:
> > seriously, when there's something that is not interesting to me on
> > planet debian, I just don't read it. Is it that difficult to not read ?
> 
> Actually, it's harder than it could be.  Can anyone see how to add
> alterslash.org-style "Skip" links to the top of each item in Planet?
> I can't figure it out.  (Bonus points if the link stays under the
> pointer after clicking, instead of moving around like alterslash's.)

Waw, there are still people not using feed agregators these days ?

Mike

PS: a skip button would be pretty easy to add. It would also be easy
to make it stay under the mouse pointer.

headers

MJ Ray | 8 Aug 10:01

Re: Planet policy?

Mike Hommey <mh <at> glandium.org> wrote:
> Waw, there are still people not using feed agregators these days ?

Yep.  (There are even still people using Windows 95.)

Also, Planet Debian is a type of feed aggregator... if you can see how
to do it easily, go for it instead of being all mysterious.  I'm not
that familiar with the planet software.

Thanks,
--

-- 
MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op.
Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/

headers

Manoj Srivastava | 8 Aug 08:07

Re: Planet policy?

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 14:16:05 -0300, Otavio Salvador <otavio <at> debian.org> said: 

> Steve McIntyre <steve <at> einval.com> writes:
>> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
>> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
>> Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
>> 
>> Thoughts?

> I agree on disabling his blog since it has nothing related to Debian
> on it, anymore.

        Why are we concentrating on Ian? Why is no one complaining about
 Clint's blog, which far from having anything to do with Debian, is not
 actually related to anything in this universe, as far as I can tell?  Or
 any of a number of other people who are blogging about their lives, and
 often, Debian is a small portion of their lives (aka people with real
 lives)?

        If people want to read posting about technical issues or Debian
 itself, I suggest they subscribe to debian-devel <at> lists.debian.org.  The
 Planet exists to let us see into the lives of people important to
 Debian, not to be a monologue replacement of -devel.

        manoj
--

-- 
Eternity is a terrible thought.  I mean, where's it going to end? Tom
Stoppard
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta <at> debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

(Continue reading)

headers

Gaudenz Steinlin | 8 Aug 12:09

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, Aug 08, 2007 at 01:07:41AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 14:16:05 -0300, Otavio Salvador <otavio <at> debian.org> said: 
> 
> > Steve McIntyre <steve <at> einval.com> writes:
> >> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> >> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
> >> Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
> >> 
> >> Thoughts?
> 
> > I agree on disabling his blog since it has nothing related to Debian
> > on it, anymore.
> 
>         Why are we concentrating on Ian? Why is no one complaining about
>  Clint's blog, which far from having anything to do with Debian, is not
>  actually related to anything in this universe, as far as I can tell?  Or
>  any of a number of other people who are blogging about their lives, and
>  often, Debian is a small portion of their lives (aka people with real
>  lives)?
> 
>         If people want to read posting about technical issues or Debian
>  itself, I suggest they subscribe to debian-devel <at> lists.debian.org.  The
>  Planet exists to let us see into the lives of people important to
>  Debian, not to be a monologue replacement of -devel.

Full ACK. That's what makes Planet Debian interesting to me. I would
prefer if people did NOT restrict their feeds for Planet Debian to only
contain Debian related posts.

Gaudenz

(Continue reading)

headers

David Moreno Garza | 8 Aug 22:22

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, 2007-08-08 at 01:07 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>         Why are we concentrating on Ian? Why is no one complaining about
>  Clint's blog, which far from having anything to do with Debian, is not
>  actually related to anything in this universe, as far as I can tell?  Or
>  any of a number of other people who are blogging about their lives, and
>  often, Debian is a small portion of their lives (aka people with real
>  lives)?

After reading Clint's posts I find myself intrigued with everything
around my life, yes.

>         If people want to read posting about technical issues or Debian
>  itself, I suggest they subscribe to debian-devel <at> lists.debian.org.  The
>  Planet exists to let us see into the lives of people important to
>  Debian, not to be a monologue replacement of -devel.

I now find myself intrigued after acknowledging fully with Manoj, here.

--
David Moreno Garza <damog <at> espiral.org.mx> | http://www.damog.net/
 El pasa'o eres tú.

headers

Gunnar Wolf | 6 Aug 18:46

Re: Planet policy?

Steve McIntyre dijo [Sat, Aug 04, 2007 at 05:54:12PM +0100]:
> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
> Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
> 
> Thoughts?

I see the planet as just the collection of weblogs of people involved
in Debian - Including personal stuff, fun stuff, random ideas - And of
course, interesting Debian- or just FS- related projects and
discussion. I don't think we need a content polic[ye] of any sort.

But then again: Ian Murdock is there because he is the Debian founder,
right? I do not know if nowadays he is in any actual way _related to_
Debian. Yes, not all Planet members are DDs (nor should they, of
course!), but they are better or worse connected to the project. Is
Ian so?

Greetings,

--

-- 
Gunnar Wolf - gwolf <at> gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973  F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF

headers

Otavio Salvador | 6 Aug 20:28

Re: Planet policy?

Gunnar Wolf <gwolf <at> gwolf.org> writes:

> Steve McIntyre dijo [Sat, Aug 04, 2007 at 05:54:12PM +0100]:
>> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
>> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
>> Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>
> I see the planet as just the collection of weblogs of people involved
> in Debian - Including personal stuff, fun stuff, random ideas - And of
> course, interesting Debian- or just FS- related projects and
> discussion. I don't think we need a content polic[ye] of any sort.
>
> But then again: Ian Murdock is there because he is the Debian founder,
> right? I do not know if nowadays he is in any actual way _related to_
> Debian. Yes, not all Planet members are DDs (nor should they, of
> course!), but they are better or worse connected to the project. Is
> Ian so?

Maybe we might contact him and ask him to set the feed for a proper
tag or something so planet won't get all his posts. That would be a
better solution.

But yes, I do think that we should at least try to keep planet without
much noise otherwise it'll get boring to read and lose its meaning.

--

-- 
        O T A V I O    S A L V A D O R
---------------------------------------------

(Continue reading)

headers

Loïc Minier | 6 Aug 21:56

Re: Planet policy?

On Mon, Aug 06, 2007, Otavio Salvador wrote:
> Maybe we might contact him and ask him to set the feed for a proper
> tag or something so planet won't get all his posts. That would be a
> better solution.

 I did when this thread started; I didn't Cc: this list when I did
 because I found some reactions too strong and hence didn't want to
 participate in the thread; I failed. :)

 (I didn't get any reply so far though.)

-- 
Loïc Minier

--

-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-REQUEST <at> lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster <at> lists.debian.org

headers

John Goerzen | 7 Aug 04:20

Re: Planet policy?

On Monday 06 August 2007 1:28:20 pm Otavio Salvador wrote:
> Gunnar Wolf <gwolf <at> gwolf.org> writes:
> > But then again: Ian Murdock is there because he is the Debian founder,
> > right? I do not know if nowadays he is in any actual way _related to_
> > Debian. Yes, not all Planet members are DDs (nor should they, of
> > course!), but they are better or worse connected to the project. Is
> > Ian so?
>
> Maybe we might contact him and ask him to set the feed for a proper
> tag or something so planet won't get all his posts. That would be a
> better solution.

That sounds reasonable on the one hand.  On the other hand, I think Gunnar's 
policy is better: you must be actively involved with Debian to be on Planet 
Debian.

> But yes, I do think that we should at least try to keep planet without
> much noise otherwise it'll get boring to read and lose its meaning.

Actually, I don't read Planet Debian for the Debian posts.  I find it 
exceptionally difficult to try to follow a discussion there, and besides, 
that's what we have debian-{devel,user,project,vote,devel-announce,*} for.

I read Planet Debian for the *non-Debian* posts.  What somebody's apartment 
in Japan looks like, what the trip to Berlin was like, etc.  Maybe what 
their Debian development area looks like...

It's good to get to know our fellow developers as whole people, where Debian 
is part -- but not all -- of their lives.

(Continue reading)

headers

Mark Brown | 8 Aug 00:43

Re: Planet policy?

On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 09:20:55PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
> On Monday 06 August 2007 1:28:20 pm Otavio Salvador wrote:

> > But yes, I do think that we should at least try to keep planet without
> > much noise otherwise it'll get boring to read and lose its meaning.

> Actually, I don't read Planet Debian for the Debian posts.  I find it 
> exceptionally difficult to try to follow a discussion there, and besides, 
> that's what we have debian-{devel,user,project,vote,devel-announce,*} for.

I strongly second this.

> It's good to get to know our fellow developers as whole people, where Debian 
> is part -- but not all -- of their lives.

Given some of the comments that have been made in the past about Ian's
posts it feels to me that a lot of what people are objecting to is that
his posts can at times seem impersonal which isn't really the "house
style" for Planet Debian.  That's something that I don't feel can be
covered by a viable policy.

--

-- 
"You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."

headers

Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho | 8 Aug 06:24

Re: Planet policy?

On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 09:20:55PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
> I read Planet Debian for the *non-Debian* posts.  What somebody's apartment 
> in Japan looks like, what the trip to Berlin was like, etc.  Maybe what 
> their Debian development area looks like...
> 
> It's good to get to know our fellow developers as whole people, where Debian 
> is part -- but not all -- of their lives.

Seconded :)

My feelings about this probably are probably best illustrated by the
following.  Last year, I set up Planet Haskell.  Being the guy who did
the work, I ended up as the Planet Haskell editor and policy-maker, and
the policy I set up for that planet was adapted from what I felt was the
unstated Planet Debian policy:

  A common misunderstanding about Planet Haskell is that it republishes
  only Haskell content. That is not its mission. A Planet shows what is
  happening in the community, what people are thinking about or doing.
  Thus Planets tend to contain a fair bit of "off-topic" material. Think
  of it as a feature, not a bug.

  A blog is eligible to Planet if it is being written by somebody who is
  active in the Haskell community, or by a Haskell celebrity; also
  eligible are blogs that discuss Haskell-related matters frequently,
  and blogs that are dedicated to a Haskell topic (such as a software
  project written in Haskell). Note that at least one of these
  conditions must apply, and virtually no blog satisfies them all.

  (from http://planet.haskell.org/policy.html)

(Continue reading)

headers

Lars Wirzenius | 8 Aug 07:33

Re: Planet policy?

On ke, 2007-08-08 at 07:24 +0300, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 09:20:55PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
> > I read Planet Debian for the *non-Debian* posts.  What somebody's apartment 
> > in Japan looks like, what the trip to Berlin was like, etc.  Maybe what 
> > their Debian development area looks like...
> > 
> > It's good to get to know our fellow developers as whole people, where Debian 
> > is part -- but not all -- of their lives.
> 
> Seconded :)

I admit to reading pretty selectively these days, and usually the
selection goes to technical stuff. I have no problem with the current
content, or the current loose, unwritten policy, since it's easy enough
to skip an entry in my mailer (I read through rss2email).

It strikes me, though, that if there's interest, setting up an
"pure.debian.net" with feeds strictly restricted to those that discuss
Debian matters only, should be pretty easy. Anybody interested in
subscribing to it?

--

-- 
Joss Whedon toys with my emotions

headers

Manoj Srivastava | 8 Aug 08:09

Re: Planet policy?

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 05:33:22 +0000, Lars Wirzenius <liw <at> liw.iki.fi> said: 

> It strikes me, though, that if there's interest, setting up an
> "pure.debian.net" with feeds strictly restricted to those that discuss
> Debian matters only, should be pretty easy. Anybody interested in
> subscribing to it?

        Not really.  I already read -devel, -project, and a bunch of
 other lists, and have a surfeit of Debian content.

        Getting to know the people who bring us Debian, ah, that's far
 more valuable.

        manoj
--

-- 
Don't you wish that all the people who sincerely want to help you could
agree with each other?
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta <at> debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

headers

Jon Dowland | 9 Aug 16:43

Re: Planet policy?

Lars Wirzenius <liw <at> liw.iki.fi> writes:
> It strikes me, though, that if there's interest, setting up an
> "pure.debian.net" with feeds strictly restricted to those that discuss
> Debian matters only, should be pretty easy. Anybody interested in
> subscribing to it?

I think that is a great idea. I wouldn't subscribe to it, under the assumption
that p.d.o would be effectively a superset of the content, but it would at least
satisfy those who are not interested in non-technical postings.

--

-- 
Jon Dowland

headers

David Moreno Garza | 9 Aug 17:34

Re: Planet policy?

On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 14:43 +0000, Jon Dowland wrote:
> I think that is a great idea. I wouldn't subscribe to it, under the assumption
> that p.d.o would be effectively a superset of the content, but it would at least
> satisfy those who are not interested in non-technical postings.

And who are they besides Lars?

As Manoj stated, suscribe to -devel or read the Debian related news
displayed on the wiki front page or syndicated at:
 http://people.debian.org/~damog/wiki/feed.php

--
David Moreno Garza <damog <at> espiral.org.mx> | http://www.damog.net/
 A mí se me hace que estás asustado.

headers

Lars Wirzenius | 9 Aug 21:26

Re: Planet policy?

On to, 2007-08-09 at 10:34 -0500, David Moreno Garza wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 14:43 +0000, Jon Dowland wrote:
> > I think that is a great idea. I wouldn't subscribe to it, under the assumption
> > that p.d.o would be effectively a superset of the content, but it would at least
> > satisfy those who are not interested in non-technical postings.
> 
> And who are they besides Lars?

I didn't actually say I would subscribe to the feed myself.

> As Manoj stated, suscribe to -devel or read the Debian related news
> displayed on the wiki front page or syndicated at:
>  http://people.debian.org/~damog/wiki/feed.php

The blog and mailing list formats are so different that one is not ever
going to be able to completely replace the other. Both have their use.

--

-- 
On IRC, we sometimes like to watch silence.

headers

Manoj Srivastava | 10 Aug 17:02

Re: Planet policy?

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:26:17 +0000, Lars Wirzenius <liw <at> liw.iki.fi> said: 

> The blog and mailing list formats are so different that one is not
> ever going to be able to completely replace the other. Both have their
> use.

        I read blogs using gnus, the same thing I use for mailing
 lists. I also read /. using gnus, to the differences are not as
 distinct for me, really.

        There is also software that converts mailing lists into web
 pages, and some of these converters retain a MUA-like interface with
 panes (gmane, fer instance); other take a days worth of emails and put
 them into blg comment style pages, with nested/threaded/flat variants.

        Therefore I am not so sure that the format differences are
 insurmountable.

        manoj
--

-- 
Real wealth can only increase. Buckminster Fuller
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta <at> debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

headers

Lars Wirzenius | 9 Aug 21:28

Re: Planet policy?

On to, 2007-08-09 at 14:43 +0000, Jon Dowland wrote:
> I think that is a great idea. I wouldn't subscribe to it, under the assumption
> that p.d.o would be effectively a superset of the content, but it would at least
> satisfy those who are not interested in non-technical postings.

That's assuming there are such people, but no-one's said they would
subscribe to it, yet, so I'm going to assume there aren't any.

--

-- 
Fundamental truth #5: Always ask the simple troubleshooting questions
first.

headers

Steve Langasek | 10 Aug 00:31

Re: Planet policy?

On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 07:28:41PM +0000, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> On to, 2007-08-09 at 14:43 +0000, Jon Dowland wrote:
> > I think that is a great idea. I wouldn't subscribe to it, under the assumption
> > that p.d.o would be effectively a superset of the content, but it would at least
> > satisfy those who are not interested in non-technical postings.

> That's assuming there are such people, but no-one's said they would
> subscribe to it, yet, so I'm going to assume there aren't any.

The line between posts I'm interested in and those I'm not is not one of
technical vs. non-technical; there are plenty of non-technical posts that
I'm interested in because the poster has a writing style that appeals to me,
or because they're someone I know personally, or because they generally
write good technical blog entries so I'm also interested in having a glimpse
of who they are as people.

Evan's is one of the blogs I routinely skip, because
- the blog very much follows a "journal" style, recording the day's events,
  with the result that there's a lot of content, very little of which is
  inherently of interest to me
- his blog titles tell nothing about the content of the entry, making
  selective reading impractical
- I haven't yet seen an entry of his be about something Debian-related.

OTOH, I read John Goerzen's entries because he's an interesting writer.

So I don't see any objective difference between these that could be useful
in distinguishing between "things that should be on Planet Debian" and
"things that shouldn't be on Planet Debian".  It's just a line between
"things Steve enjoys reading" and "things Steve doesn't enjoy reading",

(Continue reading)

headers

Bastian Venthur | 9 Aug 17:38

Re: Planet policy?

On 08.08.2007 07:33 schrieb Lars Wirzenius:

> It strikes me, though, that if there's interest, setting up an
> "pure.debian.net" with feeds strictly restricted to those that discuss
> Debian matters only, should be pretty easy. Anybody interested in
> subscribing to it?

Why so complicated? Isn't it easier to divide the content of planet into
something like "personal" and "technical" (assuming the feeders assign
their blog-feeds to the appropriate address) and then let the user check
(via check boxes) which one of them they want to see? Planet would then
display the contents of both sections by default but have two check
boxes somewhere, where you can disable one (or both :) ) of them.

Cheers,

Bastian

--

-- 
Bastian Venthur                                      http://venthur.de
Debian Developer                                 venthur at debian org

headers

MJ Ray | 9 Aug 17:59

Re: Planet policy?

Bastian Venthur <venthur <at> debian.org> wrote: [...]
> Why so complicated? Isn't it easier to divide the content of planet into
> something like "personal" and "technical" [...]

personal / technical may be a different split to debian / other - some
of Ian Murdock's posts are technical without being directly about
debian.  It's probably so complicated because debian-ness is in the
eye of the beholder.

If anyone wants to try defining a new split, set up a site.  There are
several of those already, as far as I can see from the logs, so ask
around if you want a howto or tips on setup.  This seems a lot simpler
than reimplementing ftp-master, which has been suggested before.  If
one gets more popular than the current planet, that would seem a good
reason to change the target of the planet.debian.net hostname.

Regards,
--

-- 
MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/
Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op.
Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/

headers

Bastian Venthur | 9 Aug 19:09

Re: Planet policy?

MJ Ray wrote:
> Bastian Venthur <venthur <at> debian.org> wrote: [...]
>> Why so complicated? Isn't it easier to divide the content of planet into
>> something like "personal" and "technical" [...]
> 
> personal / technical may be a different split to debian / other - some
> of Ian Murdock's posts are technical without being directly about
> debian.  It's probably so complicated because debian-ness is in the
> eye of the beholder.

You're right, "debian"/"other" makes more sense than personal/technical.
We should really aim to implement such a solution. This way we could
satisfy everybody without kicking people from the planet. But it is
somewhat important to have booth sections on one site by default and
make it optional to exclude a section. This way we keep the planet as it
is by default and just provide an extra option for the
debian-only/non-debian-only proponents.

Cheers,

Bastian

--

-- 
Bastian Venthur                                      http://venthur.de
Debian Developer                                 venthur at debian org

headers

Lars Wirzenius | 9 Aug 21:27

Re: Planet policy?

On to, 2007-08-09 at 17:38 +0200, Bastian Venthur wrote:
> Why so complicated? Isn't it easier to divide the content of planet into
> something like "personal" and "technical" (assuming the feeders assign
> their blog-feeds to the appropriate address) and then let the user check
> (via check boxes) which one of them they want to see? Planet would then
> display the contents of both sections by default but have two check
> boxes somewhere, where you can disable one (or both :) ) of them.

I think you're assuming that Planet Debian is only about the web page,
but it's not. I almost never look at the web page, I follow it via the
RSS feed, and those don't have any way of having buttons, or any other
dynamic content, for that matter.

--

-- 
Puhuminen on halpaa, valittaminen suorastaan ilmaista.

headers

Bastian Venthur | 9 Aug 21:47

Re: Planet policy?

Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> On to, 2007-08-09 at 17:38 +0200, Bastian Venthur wrote:
>> Why so complicated? Isn't it easier to divide the content of planet into
>> something like "personal" and "technical" (assuming the feeders assign
>> their blog-feeds to the appropriate address) and then let the user check
>> (via check boxes) which one of them they want to see? Planet would then
>> display the contents of both sections by default but have two check
>> boxes somewhere, where you can disable one (or both :) ) of them.
> 
> I think you're assuming that Planet Debian is only about the web page,
> but it's not. I almost never look at the web page, I follow it via the
> RSS feed, and those don't have any way of having buttons, or any other
> dynamic content, for that matter.

Shouldn't be too hart do implement tree different feeds for one page
(debian/non-debian/both). At least this would be the least intrusive
variant of all proposed solutions so far (kicking people from the planet
or creating a second one).

--

-- 
Bastian Venthur                                      http://venthur.de
Debian Developer                                 venthur at debian org

headers

Jon Dowland | 10 Aug 11:01

Re: Planet policy?

Bastian Venthur wrote:
> Why so complicated? Isn't it easier to divide the content
> of planet into something like "personal" and "technical"

Some people think pdo needs adjusting, some don't. The
solution Lars proposed leaves pdo as it is (which satisfies
the latter camp, which includes me).

--

-- 
Jon Dowland

headers

Otavio Salvador | 8 Aug 14:33

Re: Planet policy?

Otavio Salvador <otavio <at> debian.org> writes:

> But yes, I do think that we should at least try to keep planet without
> much noise otherwise it'll get boring to read and lose its meaning.

After reading this thread I changed my mind. I now agree that it's not
the case.

--

-- 
        O T A V I O    S A L V A D O R
---------------------------------------------
 E-mail: otavio <at> debian.org      UIN: 5906116
 GNU/Linux User: 239058     GPG ID: 49A5F855
 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br
---------------------------------------------
"Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives
 you the whole house."

headers

Joerg Jaspert | 7 Aug 10:30

Re: Planet policy?

On 11101 March 1977, Steve McIntyre wrote:

> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o? I'm very tempted to disable Ian
> Murdock's Solaris propaganda, for example...
> Thoughts?

Without looking at this issue - people can already unsubscribe from
various planet feeds, if they want. Just use

http://www.df7cb.de/debian/planet/

and deselect the persons you do not want to read on the right
bar. Setting it with your name or something helps to keep it synced in
multiple browsers.

I use that to kick out some people I dont want to read. You still see
they posted things, but usually only there name. Click on the name and
you see it again.

Additionally it helps by folding those entries that you already read.

Im not sure why this isnt yet integrated into Debian, afaik Myon tried
to do that already with Mako, but I dont know why it didnt
happen. CC-ing both, hoping we get that into official planet soon. :)

--

-- 
bye Joerg
<Sahneschnitter> Aquariophile: welches debian/ welche xfree version?
<Aquariophile> woody

(Continue reading)

headers

Christoph Berg | 7 Aug 22:12

Re: Planet policy?

Re: Joerg Jaspert 2007-08-07 <873ayvn3vl.fsf <at> delenn.ganneff.de>
> Im not sure why this isnt yet integrated into Debian, afaik Myon tried
> to do that already with Mako, but I dont know why it didnt
> happen. CC-ing both, hoping we get that into official planet soon. :)

I never got around to talk to Mako about that - I have had a look at
the planetplanet source, but my python fu was/is not sufficient to
produce a proper patch, so I went on to write the front-end in perl.

The source is http://svn.df7cb.de/debian/planet/ .

It would be nice to see it integrated. What do I have to do? :)

Christoph
--

-- 
cb <at> df7cb.de | http://www.df7cb.de/

headers

Wouter Verhelst | 9 Aug 15:57

Re: Planet policy?

On Sat, Aug 04, 2007 at 05:54:12PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Did we ever agree a policy about what's acceptable/reasonable for
> blog feeds linked from planet.d.o?

No. And personally, I believe that's a good thing. To me, Planet Debian
is about people, not technology. The fact that it just happens to be
mostly about technology (because most of us are technologists) is just a
nice side effect.

--

-- 
<Lo-lan-do> Home is where you have to wash the dishes.
  -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22