headers
Ean Schuessler | 19 Nov 17:29
Favicon

Member distributions and popularity

Hi.

As everyone is aware, there has been plenty of debate about how Debian is losing popularity. At the same
time, the overall number of .deb packages installed in the world is just going up and up and up. The
"problem" is that these .debs are often installed by a Debian derivative distribution. Some people think
this is good, some people think this is bad. The one thing we can say for sure is that it is causing lots more
.debs to be installed.

We want to grow our base of users and developers. We also want to insure that when people install .debs that
they are truly getting a Debian experience. Perhaps one way that we can have our cake and eat it to is by
helping to promote Debian derivatives that don't break the overall experience and work with us in a happy
and productive way.

This is how the Eclipse project works with their derivatives. Maybe we can borrow some ideas from them?

http://www.eclipse.org/membership/special_programs/member-downloads-program.php

Thanks.

--

-- 
Ean Schuessler, CTO Brainfood.com
ean <at> brainfood.com - http://www.brainfood.com - 214-720-0700 x 315
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Martin Schulze | 19 Nov 17:44
Favicon

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Ean Schuessler wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> As everyone is aware, there has been plenty of debate about how Debian is losing popularity. At the same
time, the overall number of .deb packages installed in the world is just going up and up and up. The
"problem" is that these .debs are often installed by a Debian derivative distribution. Some people think
this is good, some people think this is bad. The one thing we can say for sure is that it is causing lots more
.debs to be installed.
> 
> We want to grow our base of users and developers. We also want to insure that when people install .debs that
they are truly getting a Debian experience. Perhaps one way that we can have our cake and eat it to is by
helping to promote Debian derivatives that don't break the overall experience and work with us in a happy
and productive way.
> 
> This is how the Eclipse project works with their derivatives. Maybe we can borrow some ideas from them?
> 
> http://www.eclipse.org/membership/special_programs/member-downloads-program.php

Err?  What exactly are you proposing?

Regards,

	Joey

--

-- 
It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Stephen Gran | 19 Nov 23:49
Favicon

Re: Member distributions and popularity

This one time, at band camp, Martin Schulze said:
> Err?  What exactly are you proposing?

I think he's saying we should be more like Java, so that we can run on
no platforms at all, and this is expected behavior.  Right now, people
actually expect Debian to work on their hardware.  If we could
partner with an enterprise solution, we could resolve these misguided
preconceptions.
--

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
|   ,''`.                                            Stephen Gran |
|  : :' :                                        sgran <at> debian.org |
|  `. `'                        Debian user, admin, and developer |
|    `-                                     http://www.debian.org |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Florian Weimer | 19 Nov 23:25

Re: Member distributions and popularity

* Ean Schuessler:

> This is how the Eclipse project works with their derivatives. Maybe
> we can borrow some ideas from them?
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/membership/special_programs/member-downloads-program.php

I think you missed this part:

| * Be an Eclipse member company

This costs at least USD 5,000 per year.  I don't think this is
suitable for Debian.
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Noah Meyerhans | 19 Nov 23:32
Favicon

Re: Member distributions and popularity

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:25:38PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
> > This is how the Eclipse project works with their derivatives. Maybe
> > we can borrow some ideas from them?
> >
> > http://www.eclipse.org/membership/special_programs/member-downloads-program.php
> 
> I think you missed this part:
> 
> | * Be an Eclipse member company
> 
> This costs at least USD 5,000 per year.  I don't think this is
> suitable for Debian.

When Ean suggested borrowing ideas from Eclipse, I don't think he meant
charge people to be Debian derivatives (or did you interpret it some
other way?)

OTOH, I'm not sure what he suggested.  I think we already do quite a
good job of working without derivitives.  But much of how we work with
them depends on how they choose to work with us.  If somebody chooses to
simply grab our distro, make some changes, and call it their own, we
can't stop them.  We can, and do, encourage them to work with us.  I'm
not sure what else we should do.

noah
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Florian Weimer | 20 Nov 20:28

Re: Member distributions and popularity

* Noah Meyerhans:

> When Ean suggested borrowing ideas from Eclipse, I don't think he meant
> charge people to be Debian derivatives (or did you interpret it some
> other way?)

I don't know.  Paid membership by companies seems to be an integral
part of what Eclipse is doing in this area.
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Ean Schuessler | 20 Nov 23:45
Favicon

Re: Member distributions and popularity

----- "Florian Weimer" <fw <at> deneb.enyo.de> wrote:

> I don't know.  Paid membership by companies seems to be an integral
> part of what Eclipse is doing in this area.

No, I'm not talking about charging. We aren't interested in money, we are interested in co-promoting those
distributions who view themselves as part of the Debian ecosystem rather than as a competitor. They would
promote us and we would promote them. That's more valuable than money.

I'm pointing to Eclipse as an example of another open project that is doing this sort of thing. The Eclipse
variants are not buried down deep in their site, they are heavily promoted at a top level. That's what I'm
saying we should mimic.

--

-- 
Ean Schuessler, CTO Brainfood.com
ean <at> brainfood.com - http://www.brainfood.com - 214-720-0700 x 315
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Andre Felipe Machado | 22 Nov 15:06

Re: Debian popularity => Debian Pure Blends

Hello,
I guess that the main question, as already cited by others, is how
derivatives work with Debian Project.
Currently, the Debian Pure Blends concept [0] is the right way to work
with Debian Project.
Forks are not the efficient way to work with Debian.

Forks are a way to get control over a given project future, with too
much friction.
Debian Pure Blends is a way to achieve multipath Project future.
So, the Debian Pure Blends should be emphasized.

BrDesktop [1] is nice idea: a Debian Pure Blend focused on desktop
experience with an interesting proposed release cycle.
Regards.
Andre Felipe Machado

[0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2008/11/msg00001.html
[1] http://www.brdesktop.org
Permalink | Reply |

Gmane