Maintenance of the teTeX packages

Norbert Preining | 1 Oct 2005 08:57

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

On Fre, 30 Sep 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
> This is only understandable when you know the history of texinfo
> packages not uploaded to Debian.  I'd write something like "Now depends
> on tex-common, or tetex-bin until teTeX-3.0 is in unstable".  On the

Done.

> other hand, isn't #253124 also fixed by this upload?

No. THere will be no texinfo format, as suggested by Thomas Esser and
Karl Berry. texi2* use the (pdf)tex binaries as is without the format.
There is no texinfo format in either the teTeX nor TeX live
distribution.

BUt I wanted to discuss this with the submitter before closing the bug.

> > New -1 packages are on the tug server.
> 
> Unfortunately, one more important thing is missing:  
> 
> * New maintainer.  Taking over because...

Added changelog entry:
  * New maintainer: Taking over from Josip Rodin <joy-packages <at> debian.org> 
    as he seems to have abandoned texinfo.

Also, I have added:
  * Acknowledge previous NMU (Closes: #267497, #259280)

New packages are on tug.org (in 10min from now)

(Continue reading)

Frank Küster | 3 Oct 2005 08:47

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

Norbert Preining <preining <at> logic.at> wrote:

> On Fre, 30 Sep 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
>> On the other hand, isn't #253124 also fixed by this upload?
>
> No. THere will be no texinfo format, as suggested by Thomas Esser and
> Karl Berry. texi2* use the (pdf)tex binaries as is without the format.
> There is no texinfo format in either the teTeX nor TeX live
> distribution.
>
> BUt I wanted to discuss this with the submitter before closing the bug.

The submitter is Hilmar, and I'm sure that the reason for his submitting
the bug was that we wanted to drop tetex-base's dependency on texinfo.
Therefore he requested that texinfo should takeover building the format;
at that time we assumed that it was necessary.  

No that it seems building the format isn't necessary at all, the bug can
be closed this way just as well.

Regards, Frank
--

-- 
Frank Küster
Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer

Norbert Preining | 3 Oct 2005 08:57

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

Hello Frank, hello Hilmar!

On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
> > No. THere will be no texinfo format, as suggested by Thomas Esser and
> 
> The submitter is Hilmar, and I'm sure that the reason for his submitting
> the bug was that we wanted to drop tetex-base's dependency on texinfo.
> Therefore he requested that texinfo should takeover building the format;
> at that time we assumed that it was necessary.  

Hilmar: Is it ok the close the bug?

If yes: Frank, should I make a new -1 which contains the Close-clause
for this bug, or can this be done via the web/email as long as I am not
a DD bu tmaintainer?

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>             Università di Siena
sip:preining <at> at43.tuwien.ac.at                             +43 (0) 59966-690018
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(Continue reading)

Hilmar Preusse | 7 Oct 2005 20:28

X-Face

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

On 03.10.05 Norbert Preining (preining <at> logic.at) wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Frank Küster wrote:

Hi,

> > The submitter is Hilmar, and I'm sure that the reason for his
> > submitting the bug was that we wanted to drop tetex-base's
> > dependency on texinfo. Therefore he requested that texinfo should
> > takeover building the format; at that time we assumed that it was
> > necessary.
> 
> Hilmar: Is it ok the close the bug?
> 
Sorry, late response. I don't promptly read all mails coming over
tetex-maint and some I read never.
I guess it is OK to close that bug. However the 01tetex.cnf still
contains the entry (commented out). If the format is not necessary at
all we should remove it completely. Or better ask upstream why it is
still there.

H.
-- 
Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
  http://www.hilmar-preusse.de.vu/

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Frank Küster | 7 Oct 2005 22:55

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

Hilmar Preusse <hille42 <at> web.de> wrote:

> On 03.10.05 Norbert Preining (preining <at> logic.at) wrote:
>> On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> > The submitter is Hilmar, and I'm sure that the reason for his
>> > submitting the bug was that we wanted to drop tetex-base's
>> > dependency on texinfo. Therefore he requested that texinfo should
>> > takeover building the format; at that time we assumed that it was
>> > necessary.
>> 
>> Hilmar: Is it ok the close the bug?
>> 
> Sorry, late response. I don't promptly read all mails coming over
> tetex-maint and some I read never.

No problem - nobody's required to read or do anything.

> I guess it is OK to close that bug. However the 01tetex.cnf still
> contains the entry (commented out). If the format is not necessary at
> all we should remove it completely. Or better ask upstream why it is
> still there.

Will you ask Thomas?

Gruß, Frank
--

-- 
Frank Küster

(Continue reading)

Rogério Brito | 3 Oct 2005 22:39

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

Hi, Norbert, Frank, Hilmar and others.

On Oct 03 2005, Norbert Preining wrote:
> If yes: Frank, should I make a new -1 which contains the Close-clause
> for this bug, or can this be done via the web/email as long as I am
> not a DD bu tmaintainer?

May I give you an opinion?

If you actually make a new package (and I see that you'll do), please
don't call it -1 like you did with cm-super and cm-super-x11. Please,
keep the annotations on the changelog, even if they were not submitted
to the Debian system.

This way, we don't have problems with "downgrades" (that are actually
upgrades) and tools like apt-listchanges will work on your package
(otherwise, you'll break them).

Just MVHO, Rogério.

-- 
Rogério Brito : rbrito <at> ime.usp.br : http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito
Homepage of the algorithms package : http://algorithms.berlios.de
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Norbert Preining | 4 Oct 2005 07:58

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Rogério Brito wrote:
> If you actually make a new package (and I see that you'll do), please
> don't call it -1 like you did with cm-super and cm-super-x11. Please,
> keep the annotations on the changelog, even if they were not submitted
> to the Debian system.

Now I remember: I *DIDN'T* have any intermediate texinfo packages
released. First I had only 4.8-0.1 versions, which was renamed/retagged
to 4.8-1. So there never were any annotations changed in the changelog.

I think we can forget this.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>             Università di Siena
sip:preining <at> at43.tuwien.ac.at                             +43 (0) 59966-690018
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Norbert Preining | 3 Oct 2005 23:06

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Rogério Brito wrote:
> If you actually make a new package (and I see that you'll do), please
> don't call it -1 like you did with cm-super and cm-super-x11. Please,
> keep the annotations on the changelog, even if they were not submitted
> to the Debian system.

Frank, any comments on this? What would you prefer? I am really free in
this and wouldn't mind having a -7 or -1.

In fact it was my failure, I should have had version -0.1, -0.2 etc in
the beginning, but this I learned only just recently. In fact, at this
time I didn't even think about taking over the package, and I believed
that was only for my own fun 

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>             Università di Siena
sip:preining <at> at43.tuwien.ac.at                             +43 (0) 59966-690018
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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certain if this was because they were trying to see more
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(Continue reading)

Rogério Brito | 4 Oct 2005 05:33

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

Hi, Norbert.

On Oct 03 2005, Norbert Preining wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Rogério Brito wrote:
> > If you actually make a new package (and I see that you'll do), please
> > don't call it -1 like you did with cm-super and cm-super-x11. Please,
> > keep the annotations on the changelog, even if they were not submitted
> > to the Debian system.
> 
> Frank, any comments on this? What would you prefer? I am really free
> in this and wouldn't mind having a -7 or -1.

I don't know what Frank prefers, but I see that this is quite common
with other Debian Developers: more so with those that are employed to
work on Ubuntu: you frequently see the changelogs of their packages
containing breezy as the distribution (which, as you may know, is not
the codename of any Debian distribution so far).

I think that this way of doing things keeps people informed and prevents
the problems that you would have to have if you change the version
numbers too much.

Yes, I admittedly don't like epochs in package version numbers. 

> In fact it was my failure, I should have had version -0.1, -0.2 etc in
> the beginning, but this I learned only just recently. In fact, at this
> time I didn't even think about taking over the package, and I believed
> that was only for my own fun 

No problems, as nothing was submitted to the Debian archives. But that's

(Continue reading)

Frank Küster | 4 Oct 2005 10:40

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changelog entries or "Editing history" (was: Take over of texinfo/info packages)

Rogério Brito <rbrito <at> ime.usp.br> wrote:

> Hi, Norbert.
>
> On Oct 03 2005, Norbert Preining wrote:
>> On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Rogério Brito wrote:
>> > If you actually make a new package (and I see that you'll do), please
>> > don't call it -1 like you did with cm-super and cm-super-x11. Please,
>> > keep the annotations on the changelog, even if they were not submitted
>> > to the Debian system.
>> 
>> Frank, any comments on this? What would you prefer? I am really free
>> in this and wouldn't mind having a -7 or -1.
>
> I don't know what Frank prefers, but I see that this is quite common
> with other Debian Developers: more so with those that are employed to
> work on Ubuntu: you frequently see the changelogs of their packages
> containing breezy as the distribution (which, as you may know, is not
> the codename of any Debian distribution so far).
>
> I think that this way of doing things keeps people informed and prevents
> the problems that you would have to have if you change the version
> numbers too much.

I took the location on the tug.org server as only a testing place,
similar to private apt-gettable places that often sponsored non-DDs
offer for prospective sponsors.  I think that everybody who used these
packages must be aware that they are experimental, and that they should
read at least the announcements, if not the respective lists.

(Continue reading)

Norbert Preining | 4 Oct 2005 10:58

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Re: changelog entries or "Editing history" (was: Take over of texinfo/info packages)

On Die, 04 Okt 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
> Therefore I don't care much about different packages with the same
> version number and stuff like that.  Anyway it will resolve itself as
> soon as some -2 enters the Debian archive.

I have never produces anything else then -0.1 and finally a (ok
sometimes changing) -1. So, as I said, we forget this.

Best wishes

Norbert

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Dr. Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>             Università di Siena
sip:preining <at> at43.tuwien.ac.at                             +43 (0) 59966-690018
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Frank Küster | 3 Oct 2005 11:01

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

Norbert Preining <preining <at> logic.at> wrote:

> Hello Frank, hello Hilmar!
>
> On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
>> > No. THere will be no texinfo format, as suggested by Thomas Esser and
>> 
>> The submitter is Hilmar, and I'm sure that the reason for his submitting
>> the bug was that we wanted to drop tetex-base's dependency on texinfo.
>> Therefore he requested that texinfo should takeover building the format;
>> at that time we assumed that it was necessary.  
>
> Hilmar: Is it ok the close the bug?
>
> If yes: Frank, should I make a new -1 which contains the Close-clause
> for this bug, or can this be done via the web/email as long as I am not
> a DD bu tmaintainer?

It would be better if it was closed in the changelog.  I'm not going to
look at the packages before late afternoon today, so just decide how
on your own whether you think it's worth to spend some time on it.

Regards, Frank
--

-- 
Frank Küster
Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer

Norbert Preining | 3 Oct 2005 13:00

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Re: Take over of texinfo/info packages

Hi Frank!

On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
> It would be better if it was closed in the changelog.  I'm not going to
> look at the packages before late afternoon today, so just decide how
> on your own whether you think it's worth to spend some time on it.

Ok. New version closing this bug is on the tug server.

Added entry to the changelog:
  * texinfo formats are not necessary anymore, since texi2* do not use
    the formats, and the new teTeX will not need to generate texinfo formats.
    Thus bug #253124 will not be fixed. (Closes: #253124)

Nothing else changed.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>             Università di Siena
sip:preining <at> at43.tuwien.ac.at                             +43 (0) 59966-690018
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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THHGTTG. It had some advice to offer on drunkenness.
and good luck.'
It was cross-referenced to the entry concerning the size of
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(Continue reading)

Frank Küster | 3 Oct 2005 19:04

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package testing procedures (was: Take over of texinfo/info packages)

Norbert Preining <preining <at> logic.at> wrote:

> Hi Frank!
>
> On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
>> It would be better if it was closed in the changelog.  I'm not going to
>> look at the packages before late afternoon today, so just decide how
>> on your own whether you think it's worth to spend some time on it.
>
> Ok. New version closing this bug is on the tug server.
>
> Added entry to the changelog:
>   * texinfo formats are not necessary anymore, since texi2* do not use
>     the formats, and the new teTeX will not need to generate texinfo formats.
>     Thus bug #253124 will not be fixed. (Closes: #253124)

I've run the package through my usual "test suite", and unfortunately
again a problem was revealed.  I suggest that you (or everybody else
who sends in a package for sponsoring, or submits a patch that might
interfere with maintainer scripts, dependencies and similiar stuff) do a
test like this before providing the package, so that you can detect it
yourself.  This is what I usually do:

1. pbuilder login (on sid)
2. apt-get install <package> <plus see below>
3. edit sources list so that the new package
4. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
5. apt-get remove <package> <plus see below>
6. apt-get install <package> <plus see below>
5. apt-get --purge remove <package> <plus see below>

(Continue reading)

Norbert Preining | 3 Oct 2005 23:55

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Re: package testing procedures (was: Take over of texinfo/info packages)

Hallo Frank!

On Mon, 03 Okt 2005, Frank Küster wrote:
> So this time it turned out that texinfo's postinst script does not check
> whether it is called with "remove" or with "purge", and tries to execute
> update-fmtutil all the time - failing when all packages are purged
> together.  

Bummer. It shouldn't call update-fmtutil at all. There are no format
specifications in texinfo.

A new package 4.8-1 is on the tug server, fixing also all the ChangeLog
entries. But, see below ...

> Please correct that, and run these tests for texinfo and similarly for
> info. 

Running several of the test I found a problem, which ATM I have no idea
how to cope with:

When I apt-get install texinfo tetex-base tetex-bin on a fresh system
(no upgrade) I get ...

with texinfo_4.7-2.2:
---------------------
unpack texinfo
unpack tetex-base
unpack tetex-bin
setup texinfo
setup tetex-base

(Continue reading)

Frank Küster | 4 Oct 2005 10:29

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Re: package testing procedures

Norbert Preining <preining <at> logic.at> wrote:

> Running several of the test I found a problem, which ATM I have no idea
> how to cope with:
>
> When I apt-get install texinfo tetex-base tetex-bin on a fresh system
> (no upgrade) I get ...
[...]
> with texinfo_4.8-1:
> -------------------
> unpack tetex-bin
> unpack texinfo
> unpack tetex-base
> setup tetex-bin
> 	-> breaks since /etc/texmf/updmap.d/00updmap.cfg is not
> 	   existent since tetex-base is not configured
>
>
> Here we have
> 	tetex-bin -> tetex-base -> texinfo -> tetex-bin (circle)
>
> So dpkg tries to first configure tetex-bin, which breaks.

I guess we have to upload a tetex-base package first which does not try
to build texinfo formats, and does not depend on texinfo.  I'll have a
look at it this afternoon.

Regards, Frank
--

-- 
Frank Küster

(Continue reading)

Frank Küster | 4 Oct 2005 19:03

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Re: package testing procedures

Frank Küster <frank <at> kuesterei.ch> wrote:

> Norbert Preining <preining <at> logic.at> wrote:
>
>> Running several of the test

Apropos:  I forgot that after the purge, I reinstall again - simulating
installation on a clean system.

[...]

>> Here we have
>> 	tetex-bin -> tetex-base -> texinfo -> tetex-bin (circle)
>>
>> So dpkg tries to first configure tetex-bin, which breaks.
>
> I guess we have to upload a tetex-base package first which does not try
> to build texinfo formats, and does not depend on texinfo.  I'll have a
> look at it this afternoon.

I have prepared such a package and am currently building it.

Regards, Frank

--

-- 
Frank Küster
Inst. f. Biochemie der Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer

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