Raphael Geissert | 12 Mar 00:26 2012
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Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

Hi,

Reading zack's platform, it makes me wonder why would you (Gergely and 
Wouter) actually need to be elected as a DPL to do what you mention on your 
platforms. Especially Wouter: you even state that you want to do some things 
the way zack has been doing them.

So, the questions are:
* Why do you think you need to be elected as a DPL to do what you propose? 
* If not elected, would you pursue your goals anyway?
* If zack was re-elected, would you follow his initiative to share DPL 
activities with others?

Thanks.

Cheers,
--

-- 
Raphael Geissert - Debian Developer
www.debian.org - get.debian.net

Wouter Verhelst | 12 Mar 17:14 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 05:26:55PM -0600, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Reading zack's platform, it makes me wonder why would you (Gergely and 
> Wouter) actually need to be elected as a DPL to do what you mention on your 
> platforms. Especially Wouter: you even state that you want to do some things 
> the way zack has been doing them.

Indeed, because I won't deny that Stefano has been a very good DPL.

But that doesn't mean there aren't things I think could be done
differently. For instance, I think Stefano is focusing a bit too much on
procedural things, rather than on the fact that we're a bunch of people.

> So, the questions are:
> * Why do you think you need to be elected as a DPL to do what you propose? 

While I do definitely want to do some things similar to the way
Stefano's been doing them (mostly in the area of communication), there
are some things I would like to see the DPL do differently. I can't very
well do DPL stuff if I'm not the DPL (or, at least, not make sure things
happen differently -- I /could/ help out Stefano, should he get elected,
though I'm not sure I would, because I don't think I can make a
difference as a 'helper').

> * If not elected, would you pursue your goals anyway?

Probably not, because it would be difficult to do that.

> * If zack was re-elected, would you follow his initiative to share DPL 
(Continue reading)

Thomas Goirand | 13 Mar 06:22 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On 03/13/2012 12:14 AM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> there
> are some things I would like to see the DPL do differently

Could you be a bit more explicit? Which things? Note that I have read
your platform, but I still think it needs some clarifications. For
example, you wrote that you think the DPL could do more than just
procedural things. Like what?

Cheers,

Thomas

Ben Finney | 12 Mar 22:05 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

Raphael Geissert <geissert <at> debian.org> writes:

> * Why do you think you need to be elected as a DPL to do what you
> propose? 

Given that one response to this didn't really address the question, let
me try re-stating it:

* What *specific* actions, requiring DPL powers, will you do as DPL? For
  each of those specific actions, why do you think they need DPL powers?

-- 
 \                 “Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine |
  `\          contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time.” |
_o__)                                                     —Hippocrates |
Ben Finney

--

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Wouter Verhelst | 12 Mar 22:53 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 08:05:24AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> Raphael Geissert <geissert <at> debian.org> writes:
> 
> > * Why do you think you need to be elected as a DPL to do what you
> > propose? 
> 
> Given that one response to this didn't really address the question, let
> me try re-stating it:
> 
> * What *specific* actions, requiring DPL powers, will you do as DPL? For
>   each of those specific actions, why do you think they need DPL powers?

This question is based on a number of incorrect assumptions.

First, it assumes I have a very specific plan laid out for the next
year, with what I will do on each day (or, well at least "each month").
I don't. I do have an idea of how to proceed, but bits of it are
somewhat vague still -- very much like when I start working on a new
project: I have an idea of what to do, but some of the details will have
to be mapped out as I go along. In a sense, this *is* a new project.

I know that there are a number of things that I want to do differently
from how Stefano's been doing them. I want to have a different focus. As
DPL, I want to try and motivate people to work on Debian.

Second, the DPL doesn't *have* any DPL powers that other people in
Debian don't already have themselves. Really. The only power that the
DPL does have, is the power to say "no". But why would a DPL ever want
to do that?

(Continue reading)

Ben Finney | 12 Mar 23:14 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

Please don't send me personal copies of messages that are also going to
the mailing list, as I haven't asked for that.

Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:

> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 08:05:24AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

> > * What *specific* actions, requiring DPL powers, will you do as DPL?
> > For each of those specific actions, why do you think they need DPL
> > powers?

Point taken about “powers”. You acknowledge that the DPL has authority
to do some things that ordinary members can't do, so please read
“authority” in its place.

> This question is based on a number of incorrect assumptions.
>
> First, it assumes I have a very specific plan laid out for the next
> year, with what I will do on each day (or, well at least "each
> month").

Not at all. The question isn't asking when you'll do these things; it's
not a question of schedules or timetables.

The question is getting to the reason why you think people should want
you as DPL: what, specifically, do you intend to do with that authority,
and why do you think you need that authority to do those specific
actions?

> I have an idea of what to do, but some of the details will have to be
(Continue reading)

Wouter Verhelst | 13 Mar 16:18 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:14:43AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> Please don't send me personal copies of messages that are also going to
> the mailing list, as I haven't asked for that.

Mail-Followup-To can help you with that, fwiw.

[...]
> > I know that there are a number of things that I want to do differently
> > from how Stefano's been doing them. I want to have a different focus.
> > As DPL, I want to try and motivate people to work on Debian.
> 
> Please tell us what *specific* things you want to do differently, and
> why those specific actions need DPL authority.

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 01:22:45PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 03/13/2012 12:14 AM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > there
> > are some things I would like to see the DPL do differently
> 
> Could you be a bit more explicit? Which things? Note that I have read
> your platform, but I still think it needs some clarifications. For
> example, you wrote that you think the DPL could do more than just
> procedural things. Like what?

It's a matter of style. I think Stefano has done a good job in
communication, but has been a bit of a... bureaucrat in other tasks. I'm
not very fond of bureaucracy. It has its place, it's necessary
sometimes, but it's always a necessary evil.

What I want to see in a DPL (and hence, what I will try to do when I am
(Continue reading)

Kalle Kivimaa | 13 Mar 16:23 2012
Picon
Picon

Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On 13Mar, 2012, at 17:18 , Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:14:43AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
>> Please don't send me personal copies of messages that are also going to
>> the mailing list, as I haven't asked for that.
> 
> Mail-Followup-To can help you with that, fwiw.
> 

From the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/

"When replying to messages on the mailing list, do not send a carbon copy (CC) to the original poster unless
they explicitly request to be copied."

Wouter Verhelst | 13 Mar 17:00 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 05:23:50PM +0200, Kalle Kivimaa wrote:
> On 13Mar, 2012, at 17:18 , Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:14:43AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> >> Please don't send me personal copies of messages that are also going to
> >> the mailing list, as I haven't asked for that.
> > 
> > Mail-Followup-To can help you with that, fwiw.
> > 
> 
> From the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/
> 
> "When replying to messages on the mailing list, do not send a carbon copy (CC) to the original poster unless
they explicitly request to be copied."

>From that same code of conduct:

"If you want to complain to someone who sent you a carbon copy when you
did not ask for it, do it privately."

Also, I think the CoC is wrong in making policy about who to send
replies to. Some people actually prefer getting replies, while others
don't. Since there's a header that nicely allows you to specify just
that, I think a more useful rule in a code of conduct is "use a mailer
that respects the Mail-Followup-To: header, or respect it manually".
This way, people can express their preference, and there should be no
complaints about whether or not replies should be sent.

--

-- 
The volume of a pizza of thickness a and radius z can be described by
the following formula:
(Continue reading)

Neil McGovern | 13 Mar 17:46 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 05:00:12PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Also, I think the CoC is wrong in making policy about who to send
> replies to. Some people actually prefer getting replies, while others
> don't. Since there's a header that nicely allows you to specify just
> that, I think a more useful rule in a code of conduct is "use a mailer
> that respects the Mail-Followup-To: header, or respect it manually".
> This way, people can express their preference, and there should be no
> complaints about whether or not replies should be sent.
> 

Is there any other policies that you disagree with, and would you be
looking to change any of these as DPL?

Neil
--

-- 
< Erik_J> good day! i hear this might be a good place to get some technical
          advice when one is debian eliterate :)
Wouter Verhelst | 14 Mar 02:50 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 04:46:14PM +0000, Neil McGovern wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 05:00:12PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > Also, I think the CoC is wrong in making policy about who to send
> > replies to. Some people actually prefer getting replies, while others
> > don't. Since there's a header that nicely allows you to specify just
> > that, I think a more useful rule in a code of conduct is "use a mailer
> > that respects the Mail-Followup-To: header, or respect it manually".
> > This way, people can express their preference, and there should be no
> > complaints about whether or not replies should be sent.
> > 
> 
> Is there any other policies that you disagree with,

No.

> and would you be looking to change any of these as DPL?

Not without first trying to achieve consensus.

--

-- 
The volume of a pizza of thickness a and radius z can be described by
the following formula:

pi zz a

Neil McGovern | 14 Mar 10:22 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 02:50:59AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > Is there any other policies that you disagree with,
> 
> No.
> 
> > and would you be looking to change any of these as DPL?
> 
> Not without first trying to achieve consensus.
> 

I'm slightly confused by my being copied in to your reply then - do you
feel it appropriate to ignore policies you disagree with and/or what
would you do if you found the rest of the project out of step with your
view of what the project should be doing?

Thanks,
Neil
--

-- 
<+Mulligan> Your folk tale is inconsistent and confusing.
<+Mulligan> I shall round up your local population and tell them good CHRISTIAN folk tales.
<+Mulligan> Then build churches on all your pagan temples in order to stamp out your heathen idolatry.
< <at> Ulthar> How about I give you the finger, and you give me my temples back?
<+Mulligan> Tell me Mr Ulthar. How will you gather faith.... when you have no followers?
 * Mulligan makes a gesture and converts everyone to Christianity.
<+Mulligan> Wow. I think we just summarised 800 years of history in about six sentences.
Wouter Verhelst | 14 Mar 14:46 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 09:22:48AM +0000, Neil McGovern wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 02:50:59AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > > Is there any other policies that you disagree with,
> > 
> > No.
> > 
> > > and would you be looking to change any of these as DPL?
> > 
> > Not without first trying to achieve consensus.
> > 
> 
> I'm slightly confused by my being copied in to your reply then - do you
> feel it appropriate to ignore policies you disagree with 

One of the reasons I find that policy wrong is because it requires
manual action from me to make sure I actually do follow it -- through
reconfiguring my mail client, remembering to use "list reply" in mutt
rather than "reply all", or by manually removing whoever is in Cc from
the mail.

I've never bothered to search through the mutt manual for the
information I would need to do the first, and the second just isn't in
my fingers. I try to remember to do the third, but I often forget.

In other words, it wasn't on purpose (it never is). Sorry 'bout that.

(FWIW, though this is getting more and more off-topic, another reason
why I think it's a bad policy is because by requesting that people make
their mail clients do something else than the defaults, you make it
harder to respect the wishes of people explicitly asking to be copied on
(Continue reading)

Stefano Zacchiroli | 13 Mar 18:15 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 04:18:30PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Can I be more specific than that? Probably, but I'd rather not do that.
> Yes, I could start picking up specific things that have happened during
> the past two years and start slinging mud about it in Stefano's general
> direction, but I don't think that's very helpful.

Just a comment on this, since you seem to be mentioning me a lot, both
in your platform and in campaign discussions.  Which, BTW, I find
entirely appropriate: I'm standing for reelection so it's only fair to
bring "compare and contrast" points in the discussion.

I won't mind specific examples of things people think I've been doing
wrong, both coming from candidates and non-candidates. It will be a
chance for me to explain why I did something in a specific way, in the
case that I haven't done so at the time. It will also make this
discussion more concrete and less hand-wave-y.

Since you've repeatedly mentioned my "bureaucracy" and "procedures" (not
to mention "bureaucrat" referred to my person, which doesn't feel as
nice, at least in popular connotations :-)), I'd like to point out that
procedures are just a mean to an end. They are incentives. They are
implementations of changes that we think are good for the project. Just
a few of concrete examples:

- I've been routinely asking delegates to provide a sort of "tasks
  description" before renewing, or creating from scratch, delegations.
  All those descriptions have been stored under (or at the very list
  indexed from) http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ . Is that bureaucratic?
  Yes. But it allows to find out what is the scope of a delegation
  rather than relying on folklore. And *that* is very useful in conflict
(Continue reading)

Wouter Verhelst | 20 Mar 07:55 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06:15:04PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> Since you've repeatedly mentioned my "bureaucracy" and "procedures" (not
> to mention "bureaucrat" referred to my person, which doesn't feel as
> nice, at least in popular connotations :-)),

Sorry 'bout that :-)

> I'd like to point out that
> procedures are just a mean to an end. They are incentives. They are
> implementations of changes that we think are good for the project. Just
> a few of concrete examples:
> 
> - I've been routinely asking delegates to provide a sort of "tasks
>   description" before renewing, or creating from scratch, delegations.
>   All those descriptions have been stored under (or at the very list
>   indexed from) http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ . Is that bureaucratic?
>   Yes. But it allows to find out what is the scope of a delegation
>   rather than relying on folklore. And *that* is very useful in conflict
>   solving (been there).

I understand that.

However, the problem with detailed job descriptions, as it were, is that
you run the risk of having people argue over whether or not something is
their responsibility. This would introduce a conflict.

In the absense of such detail, it's the DPL's responsibility to just
interpret the delegation and make a judgement call on whether something
is one person's job or not. If done carefully (after weighing all the
arguments), such a judgement call can be as effective in resolving
(Continue reading)

Stefano Zacchiroli | 20 Mar 20:30 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 07:55:56AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> However, the problem with detailed job descriptions, as it were, is that
> you run the risk of having people argue over whether or not something is
> their responsibility. This would introduce a conflict.
>
> In the absense of such detail, it's the DPL's responsibility to just
> interpret the delegation and make a judgement call on whether something
> is one person's job or not. If done carefully (after weighing all the
> arguments), such a judgement call can be as effective in resolving
> conflict as are detailed job descriptions, without running the risk of
> introducing inflexibility.

I'm not sure I follow you, but I think I disagree :-). If I'm reading
the above correctly, you're saying that not having job descriptions for
delegated tasks will reduce the conflict space, because there will be
disagreements on the interpretation of the job descriptions.

But job descriptions exists precisely to *reduce* the space of possible
interpretations. They will therefore reduce the number of times the DPL
is called to judge upon whether something is within the realm of the
delegation or outside of it.

They also increase the transparency of what is being delegated, which is
particularly important considering that delegations have the power of
creating disparity of powers among project members.

Finally, it has the benefit of depending less on the "judge" (i.e. the
DPL) than the scenario without descriptions. And that is particularly
good because the DPL is moving target, year after year. As a Debian
Developer, I wouldn't be happy to know that the interpretation of a
(Continue reading)

Ben Finney | 13 Mar 21:33 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:

> I will try to be a DPL who will care a bit less about the letter of
> the constitution or the letter of the social contract, than about the
> people and the job that needs doing.
>
> Can I be more specific than that? Probably, but I'd rather not do
> that.

The above (and the rest of your message) doesn't give any specifics of
what you plan to *do* as DPL, though.

> Yes, I could start picking up specific things that have happened during
> the past two years and start slinging mud about it in Stefano's general
> direction, but I don't think that's very helpful.

Right. No-one has asked for that.

You've been asked several times for the actions you plan to take, and
it's distressing to see you avoid the question like this.

> No, I think a better question would have been "do we need another year
> with Stefano".

Please don't deflect the question to Stefano. Regardless what people may
think of Stefano, this is a question about you as a DPL candidate.

What will you, if elected to DPL, do specifically with that authority?

--

-- 
(Continue reading)

Wouter Verhelst | 14 Mar 02:59 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:33:06AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:
> 
> > I will try to be a DPL who will care a bit less about the letter of
> > the constitution or the letter of the social contract, than about the
> > people and the job that needs doing.
> >
> > Can I be more specific than that? Probably, but I'd rather not do
> > that.
> 
> The above (and the rest of your message) doesn't give any specifics of
> what you plan to *do* as DPL, though.

No, because (as I've said before) there is no detailed plan. In fact, I
don't think you can plan a lot as DPL, since it's a job where the work
is thrown at you, rather than that you need to go look for it.

> > Yes, I could start picking up specific things that have happened during
> > the past two years and start slinging mud about it in Stefano's general
> > direction, but I don't think that's very helpful.
> 
> Right. No-one has asked for that.
> 
> You've been asked several times for the actions you plan to take, and
> it's distressing to see you avoid the question like this.

I honestly don't see what more I could tell you, without making up
examples. I do *not* want to do that, because that will always be
contrived and missing the point.

(Continue reading)

Russ Allbery | 14 Mar 03:13 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:

> I honestly don't see what more I could tell you, without making up
> examples. I do *not* want to do that, because that will always be
> contrived and missing the point.

> I've told you several times now what I plan to do as DPL: I intend to
> copy the things from Stefano's way of working that I think make sense
> (mostly in how he's done his communication), but I will focus less on
> procedures and more on the people that make up the project.

> What more do you want? There is nothing more to say than that.

The place where this disconnects for me is that it seems like much of your
platform is based on the idea of DPL as leader.  That you feel like the
DPL should be more dynamic and promote a vision.  But you don't seem to
have any specific vision, goals, or places where you want to lead, just an
(apparently kind of vague) feeling that the DPL should be more leaderly.

I had this disconnect the last time you ran too.  The idea of DPL as
leader was sort of interesting, but there didn't seem to be any meat under
it, which made me unsure that anything would actually come of it if you
were elected.

I'm interested in hearing what people who are running for DPL with a
vision want to do, but I want to know a bit more about what the vision is
in advance.  :)

--

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra <at> debian.org)               <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
(Continue reading)

Ben Finney | 14 Mar 06:30 2012
Picon

Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:

> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:33:06AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:
> > 
> > > I will try to be a DPL who will care a bit less about the letter
> > > of the constitution or the letter of the social contract, than
> > > about the people and the job that needs doing.
> > 
> > The above (and the rest of your message) doesn't give any specifics of
> > what you plan to *do* as DPL, though.
>
> No, because (as I've said before) there is no detailed plan.

As I've said before, “what will you do” doesn't request that you lay out
a plan.

Saying what you will care about doesn't tell us anything about what you
will *do*. Saying what you will focus on doesn't tell us what you will
*do*.

> I honestly don't see what more I could tell you, without making up
> examples. I do *not* want to do that, because that will always be
> contrived and missing the point.

You say that you feel you can do better. That's an entirely subjective
statement, of course. We're asking what you will *do*, so we can better
know what you mean by “do better”. In particular, what you will do.

Naturally, that involves speculation about future possibilities. Surely,
(Continue reading)

Wouter Verhelst | 15 Mar 19:28 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 04:30:06PM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 07:33:06AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> > > Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:
> > > 
> > > > I will try to be a DPL who will care a bit less about the letter
> > > > of the constitution or the letter of the social contract, than
> > > > about the people and the job that needs doing.
> > > 
> > > The above (and the rest of your message) doesn't give any specifics of
> > > what you plan to *do* as DPL, though.
> >
> > No, because (as I've said before) there is no detailed plan.
> 
> As I've said before, “what will you do” doesn't request that you lay out
> a plan.
> 
> Saying what you will care about doesn't tell us anything about what you
> will *do*. Saying what you will focus on doesn't tell us what you will
> *do*.

So, I've given this some thought, and I think I understand why we seem
to be talking two different languages here.

The role of the DPL, as I see it, is something of an observer, an
overseer (in the non-boss kind of way), someone who only intervenes when
otherwise things would go wrong, or the project would go off track. At
the same time, the DPL should keep his eye on the long-term goals and
plans of the project, since otherwise it's difficult to decide when
(Continue reading)

Ben Finney | 16 Mar 00:05 2012
Picon

Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

Wouter Verhelst <wouter <at> debian.org> writes:

> So, I've given this some thought, and I think I understand why we seem
> to be talking two different languages here.

Thank you for thinking and responding.

[…]
> I hope that explains it. If not, I'm afraid I'm going to have to tell
> you that I don't believe I can give you an answer which will satisfy
> you.

The issue, as I see it, with this back-and-forth:

Your platform doesn't give any concrete idea of what you expect to do
differently from other DPL candidates. It talks about vision and focus
and atmosphere and many other nebulous things, but says nothing about
what you would do differently in the DPL office.

The ensuing thread has provided no more enlightenment.

This indicates either that you don't have any concrete, specific ideas
about what to do differently, or that you don't intend to discuss those
ideas publicly with the people deciding whether to vote for you.

Whether an individual voter is satisfied with your response, I leave up
to the individual.

--

-- 
 \       “Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who |
(Continue reading)

Wouter Verhelst | 20 Mar 07:35 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:05:06AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> This indicates either that you don't have any concrete, specific ideas
> about what to do differently,

Something like that; I do know what I want to focus on, but I don't have
the details worked out, and so there aren't specific ideas for what I'll
do.

I expect to work out the details as I work myself in as DPL.

> or that you don't intend to discuss those ideas publicly with the
> people deciding whether to vote for you.

Certainly not. I would find that unacceptable for a prospective DPL
myself.

--

-- 
The volume of a pizza of thickness a and radius z can be described by
the following formula:

pi zz a

Gergely Nagy | 13 Mar 13:38 2012
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Re: Gergely and Wouter: on the need of becoming a DPL

Raphael Geissert <geissert <at> debian.org> writes:

> Reading zack's platform, it makes me wonder why would you (Gergely and 
> Wouter) actually need to be elected as a DPL to do what you mention on your 
> platforms.

Because while Zack's regin as DPL for the past two years have been very
successful, and there would be a lot of things I'd do the same way
(which Wouter even highlighted as being communication), there are others
where our goals for this year differ wildly.

To explain this, I'll answer your questions in reverse order, as I
believe that would be the easiest way to arrive to a conclusion:

> * If zack was re-elected, would you follow his initiative to share DPL 
> activities with others?

Yes, I would, to some extent. Sharing the load and building on the
knowledge, skill and enthusiasm of others - or, to put it another way:
standing on the soulder of giants - is a good way to avoid spreading
oneself too thin, and remain effective.

A leader, as the name implies, is there to lead, not do everything by
himself.

> * If not elected, would you pursue your goals anyway?

I would do everything within my power to pursue them. It would become
considerably more difficult, though, but not impossible. If it's not
impossible, it's still worth trying.
(Continue reading)


Gmane