gmane.linux.debian.user.announce

Jason Self | 27 Jul 19:01

Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Martin Schulze <joey <at> infodrom.org>
Date: Jul 24, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

...will ship with Linux 2.6.17 as itsdefault kernel. This kernel will
be used across all architectures and on the installer. A later version
may be selected during a review in October.
==================

Please see
http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/07/msg00188.html

And, as Brian Durant pointed out, this isn't just about the iMac G5
but also the Power Mac G5 (PowerMac 9.1) as well. In fact, Debian
chokes on most of Apple's newer PowerPC machines. I and many others
had been looking to Etch as a solution, but it won't provide one with
2.6.17 and I'm not looking forward to the potential of waiting through
the lifetime of another stable release before gaining support.

It's important, IMHO, that 2.6.17 _not_ be selected as the default
kernel but rather 2.6.18 (or later) for the reasons discussed on
debian-powerpc... even if that means delaying the release of Etch.

Thiemo Seufer | 27 Jul 19:21

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

Jason Self wrote:
[snip]
> Please see
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/07/msg00188.html
> 
> And, as Brian Durant pointed out, this isn't just about the iMac G5
> but also the Power Mac G5 (PowerMac 9.1) as well. In fact, Debian
> chokes on most of Apple's newer PowerPC machines. I and many others
> had been looking to Etch as a solution, but it won't provide one with
> 2.6.17 and I'm not looking forward to the potential of waiting through
> the lifetime of another stable release before gaining support.
> 
> It's important, IMHO, that 2.6.17 _not_ be selected as the default
> kernel but rather 2.6.18 (or later) for the reasons discussed on
> debian-powerpc... even if that means delaying the release of Etch.

Backporting the necessary changes is certainly an option. I would
think this is up to the powerpc Porters to handle.

Thiemo

Jason Self | 27 Jul 22:14

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

On 7/27/06, Thiemo Seufer <ths <at> networkno.de> wrote:
> Backporting the necessary changes is certainly an option. I would
> think this is up to the powerpc Porters to handle.

Thank you. I'll continue to pursue this on debian-powerpc.

maximilian attems | 27 Jul 22:17

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:14:55PM -0700, Jason Self wrote:
> On 7/27/06, Thiemo Seufer <ths <at> networkno.de> wrote:
> >Backporting the necessary changes is certainly an option. I would
> >think this is up to the powerpc Porters to handle.
> 
> Thank you. I'll continue to pursue this on debian-powerpc.

2.6.18 is considered as release kernel,
so please don't draw to quick conclusions.

--

-- 
maks

Jason Self | 27 Jul 22:36

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

On 7/27/06, maximilian attems <maks <at> sternwelten.at> wrote:
> 2.6.18 is considered as release kernel, so please don't draw to quick conclusions.

I'll be happy if 2.6.18 makes it in but ultimately I don't suppose it
matters whether it's 2.6.18 proper, or 2.6.17 with the changes
backported, as long as it boots.

If 2.6.17 is chosen, I want to make sure that this issue isn't
forgotten between now & then and the changes actually do get
incorporated.

Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt | 28 Jul 12:06

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

maximilian attems <maks <at> sternwelten.at> writes:
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:14:55PM -0700, Jason Self wrote:
>> On 7/27/06, Thiemo Seufer <ths <at> networkno.de> wrote:
>>> Backporting the necessary changes is certainly an option. I would
>>> think this is up to the powerpc Porters to handle.
>> Thank you. I'll continue to pursue this on debian-powerpc.
> 2.6.18 is considered as release kernel,

No, it is not. As you may have noticed, we had a release update a few
days ago, telling people that we're currently planning to release with
2.6.17. Though we're aware that it might be needed to update the kernel
in October, the current upstream release quality is not something we
want to rely on. 
Iff it is reasonable to use 2.6.17 as base and simply patch problematic
parts, instead of shortening the time-frame in which we can test the
release kernel to 6 weeks, we should IMO use the older kernel.

For the future, I would prefer if we [1] could perhaps start discussing
such issues before announcing different things to the public.

Marc

Footnotes: 
[1]  the release and kernel teams

--

-- 
BOFH #230:
Lusers learning curve appears to be fractal

maximilian attems | 28 Jul 12:37

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 12:06:50PM +0200, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
> maximilian attems <maks <at> sternwelten.at> writes:
> > On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:14:55PM -0700, Jason Self wrote:
> >> On 7/27/06, Thiemo Seufer <ths <at> networkno.de> wrote:
> >>> Backporting the necessary changes is certainly an option. I would
> >>> think this is up to the powerpc Porters to handle.
> >> Thank you. I'll continue to pursue this on debian-powerpc.
> > 2.6.18 is considered as release kernel,
> 
> No, it is not. As you may have noticed, we had a release update a few
> days ago, telling people that we're currently planning to release with
> 2.6.17. Though we're aware that it might be needed to update the kernel
> in October, the current upstream release quality is not something we
> want to rely on. 

the last announcement by the release team was coordinated with d-kernel
and said 2.6.17 or higher.
also if you look at the mails of fjp and aba, they all state that the
Sarge Debian kernel freeze was too long and if things get coordinated
with d-i an newer kernel is fine.

we are about to stabilize 2.6.17, although we won't backport 2.6.18
stuff, as from the timing 2.6.18 looks good. 2.6.18 has features for
several archs ppc, amd64 (smp alternatives), sparc (sbus sysfs) plus
big sata/acpi merge.

best regards

--

-- 
maks

(Continue reading)

Thiemo Seufer | 28 Jul 13:25

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

maximilian attems wrote:
[snip]
> > No, it is not. As you may have noticed, we had a release update a few
> > days ago, telling people that we're currently planning to release with
> > 2.6.17. Though we're aware that it might be needed to update the kernel
> > in October, the current upstream release quality is not something we
> > want to rely on. 
> 
> the last announcement by the release team was coordinated with d-kernel
> and said 2.6.17 or higher.
> also if you look at the mails of fjp and aba, they all state that the
> Sarge Debian kernel freeze was too long and if things get coordinated
> with d-i an newer kernel is fine.
> 
> we are about to stabilize 2.6.17, although we won't backport 2.6.18
> stuff, as from the timing 2.6.18 looks good. 2.6.18 has features for
> several archs ppc, amd64 (smp alternatives), sparc (sbus sysfs) plus
> big sata/acpi merge.

AFAIU you on IRC we agreed to keep 2.6.17 with the necessary backports
as a plan B release candidate. Did I misunderstand you, or did you
change your mind?

Thiemo

maximilian attems | 28 Jul 13:34

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 12:25:34PM +0100, Thiemo Seufer wrote:
> maximilian attems wrote:
> > we are about to stabilize 2.6.17, although we won't backport 2.6.18
> > stuff, as from the timing 2.6.18 looks good. 2.6.18 has features for
> > several archs ppc, amd64 (smp alternatives), sparc (sbus sysfs) plus
> > big sata/acpi merge.
> 
> AFAIU you on IRC we agreed to keep 2.6.17 with the necessary backports
> as a plan B release candidate. Did I misunderstand you, or did you
> change your mind?

no did not,
some parts are non-trivial to backport like amd64 smp alternatives.
or whole sparc drivers
so 2.6.17 is really plan B.

--

-- 
maks

Otavio Salvador | 27 Jul 19:33

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

"Jason Self" <jason.self <at> gmail.com> writes:

> It's important, IMHO, that 2.6.17 _not_ be selected as the default
> kernel but rather 2.6.18 (or later) for the reasons discussed on
> debian-powerpc... even if that means delaying the release of Etch.

Or backport the fixes to 2.6.17.

--

-- 
        O T A V I O    S A L V A D O R
---------------------------------------------
 E-mail: otavio <at> debian.org      UIN: 5906116
 GNU/Linux User: 239058     GPG ID: 49A5F855
 Home Page: http://www.freedom.ind.br/otavio
---------------------------------------------
"Microsoft gives you Windows ... Linux gives
 you the whole house."

martin f krafft | 27 Jul 23:53

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

also sprach Jason Self <jason.self <at> gmail.com> [2006.07.27.1901 +0200]:
> And, as Brian Durant pointed out, this isn't just about the iMac G5
> but also the Power Mac G5 (PowerMac 9.1) as well. In fact, Debian
> chokes on most of Apple's newer PowerPC machines. I and many others
> had been looking to Etch as a solution, but it won't provide one with
> 2.6.17 and I'm not looking forward to the potential of waiting through
> the lifetime of another stable release before gaining support.
> 
> It's important, IMHO, that 2.6.17 _not_ be selected as the default
> kernel but rather 2.6.18 (or later) for the reasons discussed on
> debian-powerpc... even if that means delaying the release of Etch.

With all due respect, but I oppose to delaying etch because of
powerpc sound problems. If we get 2.6.18 ready by October, so be it,
but if not, then it's either no cookie for powerpc, or a separate
powerpc release of etch a bit later.

Don't forget that it was liw who bribed Apple to use broken hardware
just so he would stand a slight chance at not having to get
a tattoo.

And please do not cross-post messages.

--

-- 
Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list!

 .''`.     martin f. krafft <madduck <at> debian.org>
: :'  :    proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system

(Continue reading)

Jason Self | 28 Jul 00:30

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

On 7/27/06, martin f krafft <madduck <at> debian.org> wrote:
> With all due respect, but I oppose to delaying etch because of
> powerpc sound problems.

I can live without sound. It's not sound; but the crash it causes.
Debian won't boot. The systems crash with all thermal fans spinning at
maximum speed. They can't even boot the installer.

Frans Pop | 28 Jul 00:41

Re: Fwd: Upcoming Release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0

On Friday 28 July 2006 00:30, Jason Self wrote:
> On 7/27/06, martin f krafft <madduck <at> debian.org> wrote:
> > With all due respect, but I oppose to delaying etch because of
> > powerpc sound problems.
>
> I can live without sound. It's not sound; but the crash it causes.
> Debian won't boot. The systems crash with all thermal fans spinning at
> maximum speed. They can't even boot the installer.

How can that be caused by a sound driver module? The installer does not 
contain any sound driver modules, it only sets things up so that they 
will be loaded by the installed system after the reboot.
And we've fixed that now (pending upload).

So, if the installer cannot be booted on those systems, there is another 
issue.

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