headers
Jon Elson | 1 Dec 02:44

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

amtb@... wrote:
> Hi
> I have another pic http://www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh11.jpg
> On the graph
> X pos-cmd commanded position.
> Xpos-fb
> Xpos-cmd commanded position and it parallel to Xpos-fb.
> That what is should be?
>
> X output begins ok but ends wrong. Think X output should looks like trapeze.
>   
If you ask for more velocity than the drive can produce, then the 
command will hit the limit, as you are seeing.
Try this at a lower speed, and see if it works better.  Otherwise, it is 
what one would suspect - a wild discontinuity as the drive recovers from 
running open-loop for 400 ms.
> What need to change to make second part of X output looks like first?
> My current P 230, I 1.8, D0.
>
> Also pid.0.error should be similar graph  to X output, is this right.
> When X output become flat so should be pid.0.error become flat.
>   
You are commanding higher velocity than the drive can deliver, EMC is no 
longer in control of the motor, so the error is unbounded.

> What should I change here
Slow down, or change whatever is needed to allow the drive to put out 
more voltage (speed) to the motor.

Jon
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
amtb | 1 Dec 04:20

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

Hi
I reduced Default_valacity =1.
Max_velacity =2.0
Default_acceleration = 2.0
Max_acceleration =3.0

The picture is:
www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg

I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it
in 20 minutes.
I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
Not power enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
 http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
thanks
Aram

> amtb@... wrote:
>> Hi
>> I have another pic http://www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh11.jpg
>> On the graph
>> X pos-cmd commanded position.
>> Xpos-fb
>> Xpos-cmd commanded position and it parallel to Xpos-fb.
>> That what is should be?
>>
>> X output begins ok but ends wrong. Think X output should looks like
>> trapeze.
>>
> If you ask for more velocity than the drive can produce, then the
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Kirk Wallace | 1 Dec 04:52

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, amtb@... wrote:
> Hi
> I reduced Default_valacity =1.
> Max_velacity =2.0
> Default_acceleration = 2.0
> Max_acceleration =3.0
> 
> The picture is:
> www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it
> in 20 minutes.
> I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
> Not power enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
>  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
> thanks
> Aram

This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide
which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would
go with a "dumb" motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal
with "smart" drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base.
------------
Kirk
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
amtb | 1 Dec 05:00

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, amtb@... wrote:
>> Hi
>> I reduced Default_valacity =1.
>> Max_velacity =2.0
>> Default_acceleration = 2.0
>> Max_acceleration =3.0
>>
>> The picture is:
>> www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it
>> in 20 minutes.
>> I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
>> Not power enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
>>  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
>> thanks
>> Aram
>
> This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide
> which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would
> go with a "dumb" motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal
> with "smart" drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base.
Yes, drive can close loop but i use EMC2 to close loop.

> ------------
> Kirk
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
>
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Kirk Wallace | 1 Dec 05:01

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:52 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, amtb@... wrote:
> > Hi
> > I reduced Default_valacity =1.
> > Max_velacity =2.0
> > Default_acceleration = 2.0
> > Max_acceleration =3.0
> > 
> > The picture is:
> > www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it
> > in 20 minutes.
> > I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
> > Not power enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
> >  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
> > thanks
> > Aram
> 
> This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide
> which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would
> go with a "dumb" motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal
> with "smart" drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base.
> ------------
> Kirk
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

Oops, I just realized you are driving brushless motors, so maybe you
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
amtb | 1 Dec 05:23

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:52 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, amtb@... wrote:
>> > Hi
>> > I reduced Default_valacity =1.
>> > Max_velacity =2.0
>> > Default_acceleration = 2.0
>> > Max_acceleration =3.0
>> >
>> > The picture is:
>> > www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post
>> it
>> > in 20 minutes.
>> > I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
>> > Not power enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
>> >  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
>> > thanks
>> > Aram
>>
>> This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide
>> which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would
>> go with a "dumb" motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal
>> with "smart" drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base.
>> ------------
>> Kirk
>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
>
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
tomp | 1 Dec 05:40
Favicon

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

aram

amtb@... wrote:
>> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:52 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>>     
>>> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, amtb@... wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Hi
>>>> I reduced Default_valacity =1.
>>>> Max_velacity =2.0
>>>> Default_acceleration = 2.0
>>>> Max_acceleration =3.0
>>>>
>>>> The picture is:
>>>> www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post
>>>>         
>>> it
>>>       
>>>> in 20 minutes.
>>>> I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
>>>> Not power enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
>>>>  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
>>>> thanks
>>>> Aram
>>>>         
>>> This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
tomp | 1 Dec 05:27
Favicon

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

Kirk

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, amtb@... wrote:
>   
>> Hi
>> I reduced Default_valacity =1.
>> Max_velacity =2.0
>> Default_acceleration = 2.0
>> Max_acceleration =3.0
>>
>> The picture is:
>> www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it
>> in 20 minutes.
>> I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
>> Not power enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
>>  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
>> thanks
>> Aram
>>     
>
> This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide
> which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would
> go with a "dumb" motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal
> with "smart" drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base.
> ------------
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Dave Engvall | 1 Dec 05:33

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture


On Nov 30, 2008, at 8:27 PM, tomp wrote:

> Kirk
>
> Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, amtb@... wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>> I reduced Default_valacity =1.
>>> Max_velacity =2.0
>>> Default_acceleration = 2.0
>>> Max_acceleration =3.0
>>>
>>> The picture is:
>>> www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will  
>>> post it
>>> in 20 minutes.
>>> I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
>>> Not power enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
>>>  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
>>> thanks
>>> Aram
>>>
>>
>> This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Jon Elson | 1 Dec 06:17

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

tomp wrote:
> you mention a 'dumb' driver
> anything you know of for AC drives?
> i've done this with lots of copley's
> but those were dc brushed amps
>   
I have my $150 PWM brushless servo amps, which can be driven by my 
universal PWM controller.  The amp just delivers supply voltage x the 
PWM duty cycle to the motor, unless current reaches the limit value.  
So, it is a REALLY "dumb" amp, no torque control loop, no sinusoidal 
drive, no encoder input.  it does need commutation signals.  I've driven 
Giddings & Lewis, Pittman, Servo Dynamics and Panasonic motors with 
excellent results.  I've tried a few others with mixed results, mostly a 
lot of motor vibration, due to the six-step drive.  See 
http://pico-systems.com/acservo.html for more info.

Jon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Kirk Wallace | 1 Dec 06:38

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture

On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 22:27 -0600, tomp wrote:
... snip
> you mention a 'dumb' driver
> anything you know of for AC drives?
> i've done this with lots of copley's
> but those were dc brushed amps
> thanks
> tomp

I am out of my league here, but I had Jon's new brushless amp in mind.
----------
Kirk
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
Permalink | Reply |
headers
amtb | 1 Dec 03:38

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

> amtb@... wrote:
>> Hi
>> I have another pic http://www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh11.jpg
>> On the graph
>> X pos-cmd commanded position.
>> Xpos-fb
>> Xpos-cmd commanded position and it parallel to Xpos-fb.
>> That what is should be?
>>
>> X output begins ok but ends wrong. Think X output should looks like
>> trapeze.
>>
> If you ask for more velocity than the drive can produce, then the
> command will hit the limit, as you are seeing.
> Try this at a lower speed, and see if it works better.  Otherwise, it is
> what one would suspect - a wild discontinuity as the drive recovers from
> running open-loop for 400 ms.
>> What need to change to make second part of X output looks like first?
>> My current P 230, I 1.8, D0.
>>
>> Also pid.0.error should be similar graph  to X output, is this right.
>> When X output become flat so should be pid.0.error become flat.
>>
> You are commanding higher velocity than the drive can deliver, EMC is no
> longer in control of the motor, so the error is unbounded.
>
>> What should I change here
> Slow down, or change whatever is needed to allow the drive to put out
> more voltage (speed) to the motor.
>
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
amtb | 1 Dec 03:40

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

Hi
I reduced all:
Default_valacity =1.
Max_velacity =2.0
Default_acceleration = 2.0
Max_acceleration =3.0

I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it
in 20 minutes.
I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
power not enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
 http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
thanks
Aram

> amtb@... wrote:
>> Hi
>> I have another pic http://www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh11.jpg
>> On the graph
>> X pos-cmd commanded position.
>> Xpos-fb
>> Xpos-cmd commanded position and it parallel to Xpos-fb.
>> That what is should be?
>>
>> X output begins ok but ends wrong. Think X output should looks like
>> trapeze.
>>
> If you ask for more velocity than the drive can produce, then the
> command will hit the limit, as you are seeing.
> Try this at a lower speed, and see if it works better.  Otherwise, it is
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Jon Elson | 1 Dec 06:06

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

amtb@... wrote:
> Hi
> I reduced all:
> Default_valacity =1.
> Max_velacity =2.0
> Default_acceleration = 2.0
> Max_acceleration =3.0
>
> I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it
> in 20 minutes.
> I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
> power not enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
>  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
>   
It may be a setting in the .ini file, limiting EMC to an output of 1.0 
output units, which may or may not scale to 100% output to your drive.
Default velocity is 1.0 user units/second.. That could be 60 mm/min or 
60 Inch/min, depending on the setting of LINEAR_UNITS in your [TRAJ] 
section.  Also, settings in the Servo Dynamics drive could limit the 
maximum velocity.

Jon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
Permalink | Reply |
headers
amtb | 1 Dec 14:26

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

> amtb@... wrote:
>> Hi
>> I reduced all:
>> Default_valacity =1.
>> Max_velacity =2.0
>> Default_acceleration = 2.0
>> Max_acceleration =3.0
>>
>> I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it
>> in 20 minutes.
>> I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage?
>> power not enough? It is SD-94  8 amp constant from servo dynamic
>>  http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html
>>
> It may be a setting in the .ini file, limiting EMC to an output of 1.0
> output units, which may or may not scale to 100% output to your drive.
> Default velocity is 1.0 user units/second.. That could be 60 mm/min or
> 60 Inch/min, depending on the setting of LINEAR_UNITS in your [TRAJ]
> section.  Also, settings in the Servo Dynamics drive could limit the
> maximum velocity.
>
Hi
i should be able to go up to +10V to -10V. Am i right?
is 1.0 output units means i use only 1.0V out of 10V that system can output?
does pic www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg looks ok?
thanks
aram

> Jon
>
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Anders Wallin | 1 Dec 14:31

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

> Hi
> i should be able to go up to +10V to -10V. Am i right?
> is 1.0 output units means i use only 1.0V out of 10V that system can output?
> does pic www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg looks ok?

This looks better, now your Xoutput is not saturating and the error also 
looks trapezoidal. This is a system you can start to tune - the previous 
one was hopeless.
Check with a multimeter or oscilloscope what you get out from the DAC, 
and what the servodrive can accept.
As someone suggested, there might be a speed/acceleration (or 
voltage/current) limit in the drive also.

AW

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
Permalink | Reply |
headers
noel | 1 Dec 15:38
Favicon

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

Aram,
2 PID loops are ok to use, just a bit more difficult to tune.
I use Yaskawa motors/drives with the m5i20 & 7i33.
I have to tune the yaskawa drive and motor first with yaskawa software and
get them running smoothly.
Usually I tune them fairly 'soft', that is not very stiff (in velocity
mode).
Then I tune them with EMC.  It can be a bit tricky, but patience pay off.
The motor/drive tuning is very important!!
Also, since there are more parameters, it is a good idea to 'write it down'
so you don't go around in circles.
Good luck.

Noel.
'Roguish' 

-----Original Message-----
From: amtb@...
[mailto:amtb@...] 
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:26 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

> amtb@... wrote:
>> Hi
>> I reduced all:
>> Default_valacity =1.
>> Max_velacity =2.0
>> Default_acceleration = 2.0
>> Max_acceleration =3.0
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Jon Elson | 1 Dec 18:26

Re: Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope.

amtb@... wrote:
>>
> Hi
> i should be able to go up to +10V to -10V. Am i right?
> is 1.0 output units means i use only 1.0V out of 10V that system can output?
>   
I still don't know what interface you are using, but that MAY be 
correct.  It would certainly limit your speed if the drive was assuming 
10 V = 100%.
> does pic www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg looks ok?
>   
Yes.

Jon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
Permalink | Reply |
headers
amtb | 10 Dec 04:31

spindle – product by them self????

Hello
I am building light gantry type machine and I am looking for spindle that
can hold up to 0.75 inch cutter. My cutter will be will be long – up to
7-10 inches with index able inserts. RPM up to 3000.
I prepare to cut fume soft material. I would like to hold cutter with
collets similar to 5C.
Is there stay alone spindle – product by them self that I described above?
 Thank you
Aram

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
The future of the web can't happen without you.  Join us at MIX09 to help
pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/
_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users <at> lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Permalink | Reply |

Gmane