Shlomi Fish | 13 Jul 2011 16:32
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RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

Hi all,

I've written this open letter and placed it in the temporary location of
http://www.shlomifish.org/lkml-letter-f6y9/ , and intend to publish it as an
http://www.advogato.org/ editorial. However, I decided to send it here first in
case there is a way to resolve the issues at hand here first.

Any comments will be welcome.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

----------------

# Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

## The requests:

This article is is intended to convey a few requests for the E-mail
administrators of [kernel.org](http://www.kernel.org/). First of all, I should
note that I hold them in high esteem for their hard-work in keeping the various
 <at> kernel.org mailing lists (related to the Linux kernel, git and other projects)
spam and abuse free, proving to be very valuable resources in advancing these
important and quality open-source projects. They are doing an important work
which is often overlooked and invisible.

The requests are:

1. **Assign a developer to adopt my kernel-xconfig search enhancement patch** -
(Continue reading)

Jonathan Corbet | 13 Jul 2011 17:21
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:32:24 +0300
Shlomi Fish <shlomif <at> shlomifish.org> wrote:

> I've written this open letter and placed it in the temporary location of
> http://www.shlomifish.org/lkml-letter-f6y9/ , and intend to publish it as an
> http://www.advogato.org/ editorial. However, I decided to send it here first in
> case there is a way to resolve the issues at hand here first.
> 
> Any comments will be welcome.

You're asking the kernel.org folks to do things that they just don't do.
They don't champion specific kernel patches (or "assign developers" to
anything), they don't maintain external wiki pages.  I doubt you'll find
much joy that way.

It seems to me that you need to have a discussion with David Miller about
being allowed back onto the mailing lists.  I do not speak for him in any
way, but he is not an unreasonable person.  It has been a while; you may
well be able to come to an understanding.  Somehow, though, I doubt you'll
get there with a public editorial.

jon
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Shlomi Fish | 13 Jul 2011 17:58
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:21:39 -0600
Jonathan Corbet <corbet <at> lwn.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:32:24 +0300
> Shlomi Fish <shlomif <at> shlomifish.org> wrote:
> 
> > I've written this open letter and placed it in the temporary location of
> > http://www.shlomifish.org/lkml-letter-f6y9/ , and intend to publish it as an
> > http://www.advogato.org/ editorial. However, I decided to send it here
> > first in case there is a way to resolve the issues at hand here first.
> > 
> > Any comments will be welcome.
> 
> You're asking the kernel.org folks to do things that they just don't do.
> They don't champion specific kernel patches (or "assign developers" to
> anything), they don't maintain external wiki pages.  I doubt you'll find
> much joy that way.

Well, my intention in the letter was to show that I'd like to prevent damage to
the Linux kernel and to git, even if my  <at> kernel.org E-mail ban is not lifted.
If someone (anyone) can take care of the patch, or maintain the information
about git in http://better-scm.berlios.de/ (which technically is not a wiki),
that would be better than the status quo.

There were a few previous discussions about including git in the better-scm
site:

* http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/66445

* http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/67708
(Continue reading)

Don Marti | 13 Jul 2011 19:00

Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

begin Shlomi Fish quotation of Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 06:58:22PM +0300:

> Well, my intention in the letter was to show that I'd like to prevent damage to
> the Linux kernel and to git, even if my  <at> kernel.org E-mail ban is not lifted.
> If someone (anyone) can take care of the patch, or maintain the information
> about git in http://better-scm.berlios.de/ (which technically is not a wiki),
> that would be better than the status quo.

You can't just join that SCM site and post about
git there?  It looks like they want a maintainer for
their git page, and there are plenty of online git
resources that you can link to and/or borrow from.

Do you need an Internet Git Fanboy License?
I'm empowered to issue them, if you do.

--

-- 
Don Marti                    
http://zgp.org/~dmarti/
dmarti <at> zgp.org
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Greg Folkert | 13 Jul 2011 20:33
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 10:00 -0700, Don Marti wrote:
> Do you need an Internet Git Fanboy License?
> I'm empowered to issue them, if you do.

Oh... OH... OH... can I get one, also?

--

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Shlomi Fish | 13 Jul 2011 23:03
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

Hi,

On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 10:00:59 -0700
Don Marti <dmarti <at> zgp.org> wrote:

> begin Shlomi Fish quotation of Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 06:58:22PM +0300:
> 
> > Well, my intention in the letter was to show that I'd like to prevent
> > damage to the Linux kernel and to git, even if my  <at> kernel.org E-mail ban is
> > not lifted. If someone (anyone) can take care of the patch, or maintain the
> > information about git in http://better-scm.berlios.de/ (which technically
> > is not a wiki), that would be better than the status quo.
> 
> You can't just join that SCM site and post about
> git there?  It looks like they want a maintainer for
> their git page, and there are plenty of online git
> resources that you can link to and/or borrow from.
> 

The so-called "Better-SCM" site was started by me, and the way I maintain its
comparison ( http://better-scm.berlios.de/comparison/ ) is that a person who is
an expert in one or more version control systems volunteers to add an initial
patch to the comparison that adds a new system, and also to be a contact for
that version control system when new criteria are added in order to fill the
details. As I have about 30 VCSes there, I am not going to do all the research
on my own for all of them (most of them I have never used or am an expert of)
but rather make sure the maintainers each maintain their own part of the
comparison.

Git would not be an exception to that, so I'm seeking for someone who is an
(Continue reading)

Don Marti | 13 Jul 2011 21:17

Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

begin Greg Folkert quotation of Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 02:33:08PM -0400:
> On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 10:00 -0700, Don Marti wrote:
> > Do you need an Internet Git Fanboy License?
> > I'm empowered to issue them, if you do.
> 
> Oh... OH... OH... can I get one, also?

Sure, send me the URL of your git tutorial, which must
use a different subset of the 143 git commands from
any other git tutorial, and you're in.  (I use git
and like it, but of course it gives you the ability
to build either sane workflows and crack-smoking
workflows, your choice.)

--

-- 
Don Marti                    
http://zgp.org/~dmarti/
dmarti <at> zgp.org
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Ben Finney | 14 Jul 2011 02:05
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

Don Marti <dmarti <at> zgp.org> writes:

> Sure, send me the URL of your git tutorial, which must use a different
> subset of the 143 git commands from any other git tutorial, and you're
> in. (I use git and like it, but of course it gives you the ability to
> build either sane workflows and crack-smoking workflows, your choice.)

So, I prefer Bazaar because it does the right thing without being told
most of the time, and has a sane interface to implement non-default
workflows. I guess that makes me neither sane nor crack-smoking :-)

--

-- 
 \     “Teach a man to make fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a |
  `\       man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.” |
_o__)                                                 —John A. Hrastar |
Ben Finney
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Andrew Cowie | 14 Jul 2011 02:30
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

On Thu, 2011-07-14 at 10:05 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

> So, I prefer Bazaar because it does the right thing without being told
> most of the time, and has a sane interface to implement non-default
> workflows. I guess that makes me neither sane nor crack-smoking :-)

No, it means you drink the koolaid :)

AfC
Sydney

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Shlomi Fish | 22 Jul 2011 13:47
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

Hi Ben,

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 10:05:09 +1000
Ben Finney <bignose+hates-spam <at> benfinney.id.au> wrote:

> Don Marti <dmarti <at> zgp.org> writes:
> 
> > Sure, send me the URL of your git tutorial, which must use a different
> > subset of the 143 git commands from any other git tutorial, and you're
> > in. (I use git and like it, but of course it gives you the ability to
> > build either sane workflows and crack-smoking workflows, your choice.)
> 
> So, I prefer Bazaar because it does the right thing without being told
> most of the time, and has a sane interface to implement non-default
> workflows. I guess that makes me neither sane nor crack-smoking :-)
> 

My main problem with Bazaar
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazaar_%28software%29 ) is that every time I
tried to use it, it was incredibly slow, as I've written here:

http://shlomif-tech.livejournal.com/41922.html

Someone told me that "You're doing it wrong", but I don't see how: I've set up
a brand new Debian Stable/Testing VirtualBox VM, installed Bazaar on it, and it
is slow there too. On the other hand, git, Mercurial and Subversion are faster
everywhere I tried.

Regards,

(Continue reading)

Greg Folkert | 14 Jul 2011 14:41
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 12:17 -0700, Don Marti wrote:
> begin Greg Folkert quotation of Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 02:33:08PM -0400:
> > On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 10:00 -0700, Don Marti wrote:
> > > Do you need an Internet Git Fanboy License?
> > > I'm empowered to issue them, if you do.
> > 
> > Oh... OH... OH... can I get one, also?
> 
> Sure, send me the URL of your git tutorial, which must
> use a different subset of the 143 git commands from
> any other git tutorial, and you're in.  (I use git
> and like it, but of course it gives you the ability
> to build either sane workflows and crack-smoking
> workflows, your choice.)

Oh, damn. I thought I could just ask for it and someone would do it for
me and assign it to one of the Kernel Developers to take care of for me.
Or perhaps a not very busy journalist/other like SJVN or Byfield or even
Petreley.

So, Don, you are telling me I HAVE to do some work? Meh. Oh well.
TANSTAAFL after all, I guess.
--

-- 
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Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C

"Vitality shows in not only the ability to persist but the ability to
start over."
    -- F. Scott Fitzgerald
(Continue reading)

Greg KH | 13 Jul 2011 22:40
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 05:32:24PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've written this open letter and placed it in the temporary location of
> http://www.shlomifish.org/lkml-letter-f6y9/ , and intend to publish it as an
> http://www.advogato.org/ editorial. However, I decided to send it here first in
> case there is a way to resolve the issues at hand here first.
> 
> Any comments will be welcome.

Just to let you know, your requests will be ignored, as Jon stated.

> 1. **Assign a developer to adopt my kernel-xconfig search enhancement patch** -

That is not how Linux kernel development works.  Our development process
is _very_ well documented.  If you don't follow it, don't expect to get
your patches accepted, it's that simple.  You aren't special here.

> 2. **Assign a git contributor to champion git on the "Better SCM Site"** -

That has nothing to do with kernel.org.  Actually none of these do, but
this one really doesn't.

> 3. In addition to the first two item, or instead, please unban my E-mail
> addresses (shlomif <at> iglu.org.il , shlomif <at> shlomifish.org and shlomif <at> gmail.com )
> from sending E-mail to the git and Linux kernel mailing lists hosted on
> vger.kernel.org. If that happens, then I can fulfill both roles myself to some
> extent, or find someone to delegate the responsibility to from the wider
> community, and thus benefit the Linux kernel and git.

(Continue reading)

Greg KH | 13 Jul 2011 22:50
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Re: RFC: Some Requests from the kernel.org Admins

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 05:32:24PM +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've written this open letter and placed it in the temporary location of
> http://www.shlomifish.org/lkml-letter-f6y9/ , and intend to publish it as an
> http://www.advogato.org/ editorial. However, I decided to send it here first in
> case there is a way to resolve the issues at hand here first.
> 
> Any comments will be welcome.

Just to let you know, your requests will be ignored, as Jon stated.

> 1. **Assign a developer to adopt my kernel-xconfig search enhancement patch** -

That is not how Linux kernel development works.  Our development process
is _very_ well documented.  If you don't follow it, don't expect to get
your patches accepted, it's that simple.  You aren't special here.

> 2. **Assign a git contributor to champion git on the "Better SCM Site"** -

That has nothing to do with kernel.org.  Actually none of these do, but
this one really doesn't.

> 3. In addition to the first two item, or instead, please unban my E-mail
> addresses (shlomif <at> iglu.org.il , shlomif <at> shlomifish.org and shlomif <at> gmail.com )
> from sending E-mail to the git and Linux kernel mailing lists hosted on
> vger.kernel.org. If that happens, then I can fulfill both roles myself to some
> extent, or find someone to delegate the responsibility to from the wider
> community, and thus benefit the Linux kernel and git.

(Continue reading)


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