Macxi | 18 May 2012 00:59
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page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Hi,

The page of Mageia in wkipedia  (in english) has been deleted in May 13, 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia

The report of the decision here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mageia

I mentioned this in the Fórum Mageia, topic "Re: mageia information 
(wikipedia):"
https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2428#p18065

I'm worried because  many people will look for information about mageia next 
week, when the Mageia 2 is released, and I really like the wikipedia and I think 
an important source of information for everyone who wants to learn more about 
Mageia, 

I suggest create a page "Mageia 2 Press" in Mageia Wiki: ( 
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Category:Mageia_2 ) and request the reactivation of 
the page.

Macxi

Doug Laidlaw | 18 May 2012 04:17
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Favicon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Thu, 17 May 2012 19:59:00 -0300
Macxi <terraagua@...> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The page of Mageia in wkipedia  (in english) has been deleted in May
> 13, 2012.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia
> 
> The report of the decision here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mageia
> 
> I mentioned this in the Fórum Mageia, topic "Re: mageia information 
> (wikipedia):"
> https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2428#p18065
> 
> I'm worried because  many people will look for information about
> mageia next week, when the Mageia 2 is released, and I really like
> the wikipedia and I think an important source of information for
> everyone who wants to learn more about Mageia, 
> 
> I suggest create a page "Mageia 2 Press" in Mageia Wiki: ( 
> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Category:Mageia_2 ) and request the
> reactivation of the page.
> 
> Macxi
> 
> 
I suggest that before doing that, you look at the reasons for its
(Continue reading)

Macxi | 18 May 2012 15:43
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Doug, 

As the suggestion of several people, I'm subscribing in the list Marcom - 
Mageia-marketing (Mageia marketing team discussion list)

https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-marketing

There are two pages with news about mageia:
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Archive:Initial_press_release_on_the_Mageia_fork
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia1_Press

In category of the "press":
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Category:Press

I think it is necessary to create a page about Mageia2_Press, or Mageia_2_Press.

Thanks for your suggestions

Cheers
Macxi

Em qui 17 mai 2012, às 23:17:06, Doug Laidlaw escreveu:
> On Thu, 17 May 2012 19:59:00 -0300
> 
> Macxi <terraagua@...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > The page of Mageia in wkipedia  (in english) has been deleted in May
> > 13, 2012.
> > 
(Continue reading)

Doug Laidlaw | 18 May 2012 16:57
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Fri, 18 May 2012 10:43:01 -0300
Macxi <terraagua@...> wrote:

> Doug, 
> 
> As the suggestion of several people, I'm subscribing in the list
> Marcom - Mageia-marketing (Mageia marketing team discussion list)
> 
> https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-marketing
> 
> There are two pages with news about mageia:
> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Archive:Initial_press_release_on_the_Mageia_fork
> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia1_Press
> 
> In category of the "press":
> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Category:Press
> 
> I think it is necessary to create a page about Mageia2_Press, or
> Mageia_2_Press.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions
> 
> Cheers
> Macxi
> 
> 
> Em qui 17 mai 2012, às 23:17:06, Doug Laidlaw escreveu:
> > On Thu, 17 May 2012 19:59:00 -0300
> > 
> > Macxi <terraagua@...> wrote:
(Continue reading)

Anne Wilson | 18 May 2012 17:59
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 18/05/12 15:57, Doug Laidlaw wrote:
> I'm worried because  many people will look for information about
>>>> mageia next week, when the Mageia 2 is released, and I
>>>> really like the wikipedia and I think an important source of 
>>>> information for everyone who wants to learn more about 
>>>> Mageia,

Linux User & Developer this month did a write-up on Mageia 2 Beta 2.
The general feel was good, the only downside they mention being
problems with rpm.  I'm pretty sure that that's no longer a problem -
I've seen no problem with it since installing beta 3. I think you can
look forward to some good feedback from magazines in the coming week,
so take heart :-) and get the Wikipedia article ready.

Anne
Doug Laidlaw | 18 May 2012 18:15
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:59:15 +0100
Anne Wilson <annew@...> wrote:

> problems with rpm.  I'm pretty sure that that's no longer a problem -
> I've seen no problem with it since installing beta 3.

Ditto here.  It was only a problem with the GUI, and was soon fixed.
It was history when beta 3 was issued.

Doug.

Macxi | 18 May 2012 19:11
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Em sex 18 mai 2012, às 11:57:31, Doug Laidlaw escreveu:
> I will leave it to you.  Perhaps the objections can't be sustained; I
> didn't see the original pages.  But they suggest that standards were
> not met.  Being on a list where these things are talked about, will be
> an advantage, of course.
> 
> Doug.

Doug,

Thanks for talking with me about this. I will continue talking with you, I just 
commented that I am discussing there too. 

I think that the text of Mageia (in English) in Wikipedia is no longer available 
on the Internet, nor googlecach. 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:lD4ffNLZEUUJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia+http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

I copied the text of the page Mageia-en (at googlecach) when it was still 
available, some days ago. This can help rebuild the new page.

Cheers
Macxi

*******************************************

Wikipedia: Mageia - en

The webcache.google of page is here:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... en&ct=clnk
(Continue reading)

Dimitrios Glentadakis | 18 May 2012 19:42
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

I have a question, all these distros are meeting the wikipedia's criteria ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions

I did nt understand the reason of the delete. There is a doubt of Mageia existence ?

--
Dimitrios Glentadakis

David | 18 May 2012 20:16
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On 5/18/2012 1:42 PM, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote:
> I have a question, all these distros are meeting the wikipedia's criteria ?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions
> 
> I did nt understand the reason of the delete. There is a doubt of Mageia existence ?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mageia>
--

-- 

  David

Dimitrios Glentadakis | 18 May 2012 20:40
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Στις 18/05/2012 20:16:05 David γράψατε:
> On 5/18/2012 1:42 PM, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote:
> > I have a question, all these distros are meeting the wikipedia's criteria ?
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions
> > 
> > I did nt understand the reason of the delete. There is a doubt of Mageia existence ?
> 
> 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mageia>
> 

I read it and all reasons are invalid. I did nt find one real valid argument. As i said, the above
distributions that they have a place in wikipedia, are they all notable ?

The only reason that i can think right now is that someone from wikipedia hates Mageia or he is afraid from its success.

--

-- 
Dimitrios Glentadakis

Romain d'Alverny | 18 May 2012 20:43
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Gravatar

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Dimitrios Glentadakis
<dglent@...> wrote:
> The only reason that i can think right now is that someone from wikipedia hates Mageia or he is afraid from
its success.

No, it's only that 3 persons voted for deletion, and 2 against. Take
this as a cold machine; someone triggered it and here it is. Would
have been there 1 or 2 person against, it wouldn't have happened. What
is somewhat valid is that the Mageia article may have missed enough
references to news or other type sites, talking about Mageia. We just
need someone to start a new page with a more documented format, and I
think this will make it.

Dimitrios Glentadakis | 18 May 2012 21:07
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted


Le 18 mai 2012 20:44, "Romain d&apos;Alverny" <rdalverny-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> a écrit :
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Dimitrios Glentadakis <dglent-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > The only reason that i can think right now is that someone from wikipedia hates Mageia or he is afraid from its success.
>
> No, it's only that 3 persons voted for deletion, and 2 against. Take
> this as a cold machine; someone triggered it and here it is. Would
> have been there 1 or 2 person against, it wouldn't have happened. What
> is somewhat valid is that the Mageia article may have missed enough
> references to news or other type sites, talking about Mageia. We just
> need someone to start a new page with a more documented format, and I
> think this will make it.

Even in this case the delete is not a responsable action. The guy who does nt wanted the article could simply add a notice in the header to inform that "this article has few external sources, be aware of the information you read, there is a discussion currently about that".
It is clear that the goal was to delete the article. And if you read with attention his reasons, it would be very difficult ,see impossible, to convince him. Just for the obvious, the existance of the 3rd in the last month distribution. And as i said, his fantastic creteria dont match the other distributions listed in wikipedia. Why he did nt deleted them ?

Macxi | 18 May 2012 21:22
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Em sex 18 mai 2012, às 15:43:52, Romain d'Alverny escreveu:
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Dimitrios Glentadakis
<dglent@...> 
wrote:
> > The only reason that i can think right now is that someone from wikipedia
> > hates Mageia or he is afraid from its success.
> 
> No, it's only that 3 persons voted for deletion, and 2 against. Take
> this as a cold machine; someone triggered it and here it is. Would
> have been there 1 or 2 person against, it wouldn't have happened. What
> is somewhat valid is that the Mageia article may have missed enough
> references to news or other type sites, talking about Mageia. We just
> need someone to start a new page with a more documented format, and I
> think this will make it.

Romain, 

WP:GNG said: "have not been able to find significant coverage in reliable sources 
(...) Sad when the seventh most-used Linux distro can't get good coverage".

( https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2428#p18065 )

If he not found, maybe not searched in the right place:

There are several sites that have published texts about Mageia, many of them are 
organized in mageia wiki:

Archive:Initial press release on the Mageia fork
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Archive:Initial_press_release_on_the_Mageia_fork

Mageia 1 Press
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia1_Press

Today, as your suggestion, I create a page on the wiki Mageia_2_Press and is 
being edited.

Mageia 2 Press
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_2_Press

Anyone who has news of any other language or country, just add there or let me 
know that I can try to add.

Macxi

**********************************

Mageia 2 Press
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_2_Press

Mageia 2 Press
[editar] French - Français
[editar] Spanish - Español
[editar] Italian - italiano
[editar] Czech - český
[editar] Chinese - 中国
[editar] German - Deutsch

    Pro-linux - Mageia 2 Beta3 veröffentlicht - 20, april 2012 

[editar] Russian - Русский
[editar] Bulgarian - български
[editar] Swedish - svenska
[editar] Portuguese - português

    PcLinuxBrasil - Mageia 2 Beta1 sai em 22/02/2012 (participem do bugzilla) - 
15/fevereiro/2012 -
    SempreUptate - Mageia 2 Beta 1 sai do forno! -
    Imasters - Mageia 2 Alpha 3 já está disponível para download 16/01/2012
    Br-linux - Beta do Mageia 2 - 23/02/2012
    Br-linux - Mageia 2 pospõe previsão de lançamento - 25/10/2011
    GuiadoHardware - Publicado segundo Release Candidate da Mageia 2 - 
9/mai/2012
    GuiadoHardware - Publicado segundo beta da Mageia 2 - 16/mar/2012 

[editar] Japanese - 日本
[editar] English

    H-online - Mageia 2 approaches with release candidate - 10 May 2012-
    Ostaic - Mageia 2 RC Released, Final Delayed - May. 09, 2012 -
    PcWorld - Six Key Features Coming in Mageia Linux 2.0 - May 11, 2012 -
    Zdnet - Mageia 2 Beta 3 - A Preview - 21 April, 2012 -
    Ostatic - Mageia 2 Beta 3, Return of the Live CD - - Apr. 19, 2012 -
    H-online - Third beta of Mageia 2 released - 19 April 2012 -
    Distrowatch - Mageia
    Phoronix - Mageia 2 On Approach, Rocks 6.0 Released - Posted by Michael 
Larabel on May 10, 2012 -
    Softpedia - Mageia Linux 2 Beta 3 Has Linux Kernel 3.3.1 - April 19th, 2012
    Linuxuser - Mageia 2 Beta 2 Review - April 2012
    Linuxuser - Mageia 2 Beta 1 Released - February 2012 -
    Linuxbsdos - Mageia 2 beta 1 screen shot preview - February 22, 2012 

Johnny A. Solbu | 18 May 2012 22:17

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Friday 18 May 2012 19:42, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote:
> I did nt understand the reason of the delete. 

There was not obvious from the article, why Mageia is notable. And the only outside sources, that I can see,
was two Distro Watch links. Using Mageia sites and sources in the mageia article is not wrong per se, but
it's wrong if those are the only sources.

> There is a doubt of Mageia existence ? 

There is no-one who doubth that it exists. The fact that something exist is largely irrelevant when
determening whether something belongs in wikipedia. The importantfactor is, is it notable.

Wikipedia articles are all about notability. You cannot use your own research and websites as sources. And
in Wikipedia, using the Mageia pages as a source in an article about Mageia is using original research.
Meaning it is not verifiable and should not be trusted.
To use an example: If I were to write an article about you in, say. Washinton Post, I would not rely on what you
tell me and write on your blog and your site. I would use the information and see if I can verify it, by finding
third partys that I can cite and use as references. And the sources must be credible. if I didn't use
external sources, I could end up writing what some would see as an advert for you.

So my opinion is that if there is no way to cite/reference the Mageia article other than from Distro Watch and
the Mageia websites then it is not something that belong in Wikipedia.

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
P. Christeas | 19 May 2012 13:59
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Friday 18 May 2012, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
> On Friday 18 May 2012 19:42, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote:
> > There is a doubt of Mageia existence ?
> 
> There is no-one who doubth that it exists. The fact that something exist is
> largely irrelevant when determening whether something belongs in
> wikipedia. The importantfactor is, is it notable.

Well, if that's the problem, why not find sources of citation, then?

 - The article of French association (legal existence)
 - discussions in Linux magazines
 - the presence in FOSDEM 2011, 2012
 - the presence/invitations in Linux expos.
 etc.

--

-- 
Say NO to spam and viruses. Stop using Microsoft Windows!

Wolfgang Bornath | 19 May 2012 14:24

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

2012/5/19 P. Christeas <xrg@...>:
> On Friday 18 May 2012, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
>> On Friday 18 May 2012 19:42, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote:
>> > There is a doubt of Mageia existence ?
>>
>> There is no-one who doubth that it exists. The fact that something exist is
>> largely irrelevant when determening whether something belongs in
>> wikipedia. The importantfactor is, is it notable.
>
>
> Well, if that's the problem, why not find sources of citation, then?
>
>  - The article of French association (legal existence)
>  - discussions in Linux magazines
>  - the presence in FOSDEM 2011, 2012
>  - the presence/invitations in Linux expos.
>  etc.

The guy (or gal) who decided about notable or not must be either a
very bad researcher or did not try at all - I suppose it is the latter
because even if you look with half an eye only you can't miss
international reactions and notablility of Mageia. Of course wikipedia
pages in other languages must be very hard to find for this person.

We should gather all occurrences of "Mageia" on the web (excluding the
mageia sites of course) and insert this list of a few hundred URLs
into the discussion page.
Listing them at Mageia doesn't seem to help - there are already lots
of reviews in many languages listed on the press page.

Johnny A. Solbu | 19 May 2012 15:09

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Saturday 19 May 2012 14:24, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> The guy (or gal) who decided about notable or not must be either a
> very bad researcher or did not try at all 

That's not the issiue. it mus be apparent from the article itself why it is notable. If it is not apparent from
the article why it is notable, then it is not notable. It really is that simple.

> even if you look with half an eye only you can't miss
> international reactions and notablility of Mageia. 

That is of no help if neither is used as sources for what's written in the article.
It can be compared to what happens in court. It's not what you know, but what you can prove in the court.

> Of course wikipedia pages in other languages 
> must be very hard to find for this person. 

You can't use another wikipedia article as source. That is original research.
If one could one culd write an article about X and use the article about Y as source, and in teh Y article use X as
source. Then you have the circular argument problem.

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Dimitrios Glentadakis | 19 May 2012 15:54
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Στις 19/05/2012 15:09:25 Johnny A. Solbu γράψατε:
> On Saturday 19 May 2012 14:24, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> > The guy (or gal) who decided about notable or not must be either a
> > very bad researcher or did not try at all 
> 
> That's not the issiue. it mus be apparent from the article itself why it is notable. If it is not apparent
from the article why it is notable, then it is not notable. It really is that simple.
> 
> > even if you look with half an eye only you can't miss
> > international reactions and notablility of Mageia. 
> 
> That is of no help if neither is used as sources for what's written in the article.
> It can be compared to what happens in court. It's not what you know, but what you can prove in the court.
> 
> > Of course wikipedia pages in other languages 
> > must be very hard to find for this person. 
> 
> You can't use another wikipedia article as source. That is original research.
> If one could one culd write an article about X and use the article about Y as source, and in teh Y article use X
as source. Then you have the circular argument problem.
> 
> 

Including in the top 10 Distribution (so is notable)
http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7925/2/

The news of the creation in slashdot
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/09/18/1437248/developers-fork-mandriva-linux-creating-mageia

Mageia has gained considerable popularity since its creation in late 2010, 
and it now occupies the No. 6 spot on DistroWatch's popularity rankings--particularly 
impressive given that Mandriva is currently at No. 23.
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/255498/six_key_features_coming_in_mageia_linux_20.html

h-online
http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Mageia-2-approaches-with-release-candidate-1572146.html

ZDNet UK / Blogs / Jamie's Mostly Linux Stuff
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/jamies-mostly-linux-stuff-10006480/mageia-2-beta-3-a-preview-10025939/

Many articles in SOFTPEDIA
http://news.softpedia.com/dyn-search.php?search_term=mageia&x=0&y=0

So the argument of notability is invalid:

The above and all other links we all mentioned are independent, secondary, reliable, sources.

It seems that anyone values the sources as he wants.
For the fact that a simple search in Google for mageia gives many resources from big journals, and dont
forget the journals in other languages than English, the fact that Mageia is in the major distribution
list in Distrowatch, the fact that in the same site Mageia reaches the top 5, the fact that only its creation
was a flash news in the bigger Linux journals (and dont forget that there is press outside the online
magazines) makes Mageia a notable distribution that deserves its own article in wikipedia.

After that we can understand very easy the desire from Walter Görlitz to delete the page. 
As i said it is IMPOSSIBLE to convince him and probably you too (Johnny A. Solbu) even with valid arguments.
There is no goodwill to see other way than delete the article. Even a child after a simple google search
would have thought : " Surely we need more external sources, but is obvious that is a notable thing. As other
major distributions have their article i will dont delete the article but i will put a banner to reclaime
more external sources".

Like in other distributions here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions

It is a question of goodwill to delete the work of someone for an obvious "notable" (even without read any
guidelines) distribution, it was a question of time to collect the asked resources to reach the
guidelines. And there is no need to be someone a lawyer to be able to understand and interpret these
guidelines. I say this because i have the feeling that we justify the guidelines as a lawyer, but is a wrong
way; There is no impartial lawyer :)

--

-- 
Dimitrios Glentadakis

AL13N | 19 May 2012 18:04
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

> Στις 19/05/2012 15:09:25 Johnny A. Solbu γράψατε:
[...]
> Like in other distributions here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
[...]
actually, this sort of makes the whole notability issue pretty moot.

However, Mageia is not Mandriva-based, it's a full fork, so it should be
between Mandriva and PCLinuxOS.

In any case, someone just needs to look at how other distro pages look,
and create a new page, based on the articles one could gather.

In essence, the history itself alone is already notable imho.

AL13N | 19 May 2012 18:06
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

> Στις 19/05/2012 15:09:25 Johnny A. Solbu γράψατε:
[...]

I have one more notable point:

It's the first distro that obsoletes MySQL with MariaDB. :-)

andre999 | 19 May 2012 23:19
Favicon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> On Saturday 19 May 2012 14:24, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
>    
>> The guy (or gal) who decided about notable or not must be either a
>> very bad researcher or did not try at all
>>      
> That's not the issiue. it mus be apparent from the article itself why it is notable. If it is not apparent
from the article why it is notable, then it is not notable. It really is that simple.
>
>    
>> even if you look with half an eye only you can't miss
>> international reactions and notablility of Mageia.
>>      
> That is of no help if neither is used as sources for what's written in the article.
> It can be compared to what happens in court. It's not what you know, but what you can prove in the court.
>
>    
>> Of course wikipedia pages in other languages
>> must be very hard to find for this person.
>>      
> You can't use another wikipedia article as source. That is original research.
> If one could one culd write an article about X and use the article about Y as source, and in teh Y article use X
as source. Then you have the circular argument problem.
>
>    
A part of the problem is that "notable" is not well defined in Wikipedia.
In the context of Linux or open source, it is obvious to anyone 
implicated in these areas that Mageia is notable.  But for 
computer-field ignorant, that doesn't mean anything.
Most scientific articles that I have read in Wikipedia do not qualify as 
"notable" by the definition given in Wikipedia, so "notable" is not 
applied in a coherant manner.
So what is really needed is correcting the definition of notable in 
Wikipedia, or at least correcting it's domain of application.
Of course, we can always do some manipulation to make Mageia qualify, 
but that doesn't correct the considerable weakness in Wikipedia.

--

-- 
André

Maarten Vanraes | 20 May 2012 10:50
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Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

> Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
[...]
> A part of the problem is that "notable" is not well defined in Wikipedia.
> In the context of Linux or open source, it is obvious to anyone
> implicated in these areas that Mageia is notable.  But for
> computer-field ignorant, that doesn't mean anything.
> Most scientific articles that I have read in Wikipedia do not qualify as
> "notable" by the definition given in Wikipedia, so "notable" is not
> applied in a coherant manner.
> So what is really needed is correcting the definition of notable in
> Wikipedia, or at least correcting it's domain of application.
> Of course, we can always do some manipulation to make Mageia qualify,
> but that doesn't correct the considerable weakness in Wikipedia.

Well, by that rationale, the other linuxes in that linux list can be
deleted too...

at least we fork off a main distribution, not like all the *buntu based ones

Pierre Jarillon | 19 May 2012 14:27
Favicon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Le samedi 19 mai 2012 13:59:00, P. Christeas a écrit :

> Well, if that's the problem, why not find sources of citation, then?

http://linuxfr.org/news/sortie-de-mageia-1

--

-- 
Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/
Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org
Microsoft est à l'informatique ce que McDonald est à la gastronomie

Pierre Jarillon | 19 May 2012 14:46
Favicon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Le samedi 19 mai 2012 13:59:00, P. Christeas a écrit :

> Well, if that's the problem, why not find sources of citation, then?
> 
>  - The article of French association (legal existence)

http://www.mageialinux-online.org

>  - discussions in Linux magazines

http://www.clubic.com/linux-os/actualite-426042-mageia-1-fork-mandriva-linux-disponible.html

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/spotlight-linux-mageia-1

>  - the presence in FOSDEM 2011, 2012
>  - the presence/invitations in Linux expos.

http://blog.mageia.org/en/2012/05/14/time-to-get-going-to-berlin/
http://softwarelivre.org/mageia/blog/mageia-blog-english-time-to-get-going-–-to-berlin

--

-- 
Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/
Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org
Microsoft est à l'informatique ce que McDonald est à la gastronomie

Macxi | 19 May 2012 23:21
Picon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Em sáb 19 mai 2012, às 09:46:13, Pierre Jarillon escreveu:
> Le samedi 19 mai 2012 13:59:00, P. Christeas a écrit :
> > Well, if that's the problem, why not find sources of citation, then?
> > 
> >  - The article of French association (legal existence)
> 
> http://www.mageialinux-online.org
> 
> >  - discussions in Linux magazines
> 
> http://www.clubic.com/linux-os/actualite-426042-mageia-1-fork-mandriva-linu
> x-disponible.html
> 
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/spotlight-linux-mageia-1
> 
> >  - the presence in FOSDEM 2011, 2012
> >  - the presence/invitations in Linux expos.
> 
> http://blog.mageia.org/en/2012/05/14/time-to-get-going-to-berlin/
> http://softwarelivre.org/mageia/blog/mageia-blog-english-time-to-get-going-
> –-to-berlin

Pierre, 

I've updated the news pages of the wiki Mageia with your suggestions (fr), and 
with other links suggested by Wobo (de), Patricia (en), and Dimitrios (el) :

Archive:Initial press release on the Mageia fork
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Archive:Initial_press_release_on_the_Mageia_fork

Mageia 1 Press
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia1_Press

Mageia 2 Press
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_2_Press

Cheers
Macxi

Tony Blackwell | 18 May 2012 21:17

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted (tonyb)

I'm keen to help look at a new (English) mageia page for wikipedia.
tonyb

AL13N | 20 May 2012 10:50
Picon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

> Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
[...]
> A part of the problem is that "notable" is not well defined in
Wikipedia. In the context of Linux or open source, it is obvious to
anyone
> implicated in these areas that Mageia is notable.  But for
> computer-field ignorant, that doesn't mean anything.
> Most scientific articles that I have read in Wikipedia do not qualify as
"notable" by the definition given in Wikipedia, so "notable" is not
applied in a coherant manner.
> So what is really needed is correcting the definition of notable in
Wikipedia, or at least correcting it's domain of application.
> Of course, we can always do some manipulation to make Mageia qualify,
but that doesn't correct the considerable weakness in Wikipedia.

Well, by that rationale, the other linuxes in that linux list can be
deleted too...

at least we fork off a main distribution, not like all the *buntu based ones

Macxi | 20 May 2012 16:39
Picon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Hi, 

I think Is possible to create the Mageia page in wikipedia again, but if it is 
like before, it will be deleted again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review

I saw the page Mageia (en) which was deleted in googlecach (some days ago) and I 
saved it on my computer and it helps give an idea of ​​how to modify and improve  
to prevent it is not deleted again.

I make available a copy of it through a link from the dropbox:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1220932/mg/wikipedia/Mageia-EN-wikipedia.html

To avoid being eliminated again, I think it is necessary to meet the criteria of 
wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability#Notability_requires_verifiable_evidence

There are many other pages of the worst linux distro that's Mageia, but I 
believe that in this case, maybe have occurred was a junction of two events the 
one hand, the accuracy of deletionists of wikipedia, but on the other,  may be 
need to a better editing of mageia page of wikipedia, and to include all these 
verifiable evidences, these independent and verifiable sources, that the Mageia 
already have.

Perhaps the drastic attitude, of deletionists of wikipedia can result in 
something good: to make the community edit a great Mageia page on wikipedia - 
with more important information for people to better understand the mageia

Maybe we need to add a lot of sources that we know are available on the 
Internet. Maybe, for people to know the differences, to be published a table 
comparing the technical aspects of Mandriva and Magea

Mandriva 2010.1
KDE, Gnome etc - RPM - MCC - systemd - Dracut?

Mageia 1
KDE, Gnome etc - RPM - MCC - sysvinit - initrd?

Mageia 2
KDE, Gnome etc - RPM - MCC - systemd - Dracut?

Mandriva 2011
KDE                     - RPM v5* - MCC - systemd - Dracut?

(* I think this information is important, because I imagine that this system RPM 
v5 makes the repositories of Mageia incompatible with the repository of Mandriva 
2011 and the Rosa.

(see: https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=495&start=25#p9180 )

Any person registered can create the page again, but someone has to help edit it 
to get better, to prevent it is not deleted again.

Below is a suggested text, with some reference.

(excuse me for my mistakes in english)

Cheers
Macxi

*******************************************

MAGEIA PAGE IN WIKIPEDIA:

Mageia'''' 'is a linux distribution, an operating system based on Linux kernel, 
graphics and environments with multiple applications to be installed in various 
types of computers, is [[free software] ]  [[GLP]]. It is a [[fork - 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29]] Mandriva 2010.1, 
so it is based on RPM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager ) 

Mageia was created in 2010, and  developed by the community of users and 
developers, under the coordination of Mageia.org, French nonprofit organization,  
manages and coordinates the distribution, code and software hosting and 
distribution, builds system, and carries out marketing, fosters communication 
and events.

The first release of the software distribution, Mageia 1, took place in June 
2011.[3]

According to DistroWatch, Mageia is the 7th most visited Linux-based operating 
system on their site as of April 2012 and it is the third most visited RPM-based 
Linux distribution behind Fedora and openSUSE.[5]

== History == 

The Mageia was established in 2010 as a folk Mandriva 2010.1, for a group of 
former employees of Mandriva and several other developers and users and 
supporter of the Mandriva community. Although created in 2010. the events that 
led to the creation of Mageia relate the economic crisis of the Mandriva company 
and its commercial approach and a great distance from the user community of 
Mandriva Linux distribution, generating complaints.

 The Company MandrakSoft, former name of the Company Mandriva, filed for 
bankruptcy in 27/janeiro/2003. In 2004, he accepted plea agreement to pay the 
debt allowing the acquisition of several companies (Edge IT, Conectiva and 
Linbox), changing its name to Mandriva.

In 2006, Mandriva fires one of its founders and main developers, Gael Duval. 
(Http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1015784/mandriva-fires-its-creator)

The crises of the company Mandriva Mandriva has led some officials to discuss with 
the community of developers and users, in 2007, the the creation with the 
creation of an entity (http://foundation.zarb.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page ) to 
make the distro's development closer to the community and a more stable aela But 
discussion was not carried forward.

In April 2010 came news that the sale was Mandriva (http://www.presence-
pc.com/actualite/Mandriva-Linux-39261/) and that there could be dismissal of 
employees (http://lwn.net / Articles/494786 /) (http://lwn.net/Articles/494506/) 
(http://lwn.net/Articles/441916/) which generated concerns about the end of the 
Mandriva Linux distribution, but was denied by the company 
(http://blog.mandriva.com/br/2010/05/12/situacao-da-mandriva/).

    On September 17, 2010 Mandriva the company held a General Assembly that 
approved the entry of new shareholders in Russia 
(http://lwn.net/Articles/406467/), and also decided not to rehire the employees 
of the Mandriva team (Edge IT in France). The next day, in 18/setembro/2010 
these terminated employees (who were mostly responsible for the development and 
maintenance of the distribution Mandriva), decidiramm, create Mageia with the 
support of many members of the community of developers, users and employees 
Mandriva Linux, an attitude explained by a public statement. 
(Http://www.mageia.org/en/about/2010-sept-announcement.html).

The procedures for the organization of the new Linux distribution began to be 
reported via the Mageia Blog (http://blog.mageia.org/en/2010/09/21/thank-you/), 
which can be found the reports of the tasks and challenges of creating the 
Mageia.

In 26/novembro/2010 announced the creation of Mageia.org 
(http://blog.mageia.org/en/2010/11/26/news-about-the-association/), French 
nonprofit organization (Association Loi 1901), an entity required to undertake 
formal aspects of the development of Mageia.

== Versions == 

Mageia is released on a 9-month release cycle and each release is supported for 
18 months.[6]

=== Latest version ===

The latest stable version is Mageia 1, released in June 2011.

=== Development version === 

The development version of Mageia is known as Cauldron and is what becomes the 
next release of Mageia.[7]

== Goals ==

The following goals were listed in the organization's announcement on 18 
September 2010:[4]

    Make Linux and Free and Open Source Software straightforward to use for 
everyone;
    Provide integrated system configuration tools;
    Keep a high-level of integration between the base system, the desktop (KDE, 
GNOME, etc.) and applications; especially improve third-parties (be it free or 
proprietary software) integration;
    Target new architectures and form-factors; and
    Improve understanding of computers and electronics devices users.

== Name == 

The term "mageia" — μαγεία in Greek — means "magic" in English. It is a 
reference to Mandrake (the magician), the original name of the Mandriva 
distribution (Mandrake Linux).[8]

== References == 

    ^ [https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Archive:Mageia_1_supported_locales 
"Archive:Mageia 1 supported locales] - Mageia wiki". Wiki.mageia.org. Retrieved 
2012-04-20.
    ^ 
[https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_1_Release_Notes#CLI_Package_Management_Tools 
"Mageia 1 Release Notes - Mageia wiki"]. Wiki.mageia.org. Retrieved 2012-04-20.
    ^ [http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mageia a b 
"DistroWatch.com: Mageia"]. 2012-04-29. Retrieved 2012-04-29.
    ^ [http://www.mageia.org/en/about/2010-sept-announcement.html a b c "A New 
Linux Distribution".] Mageia. 2010-09-18. Retrieved 2012-04-20.
    ^ [http://distrowatch.com/ "DistroWatch"]. Retrieved 2012-04-20.
    ^ [http://www.muktware.com/blogs/1878 "Mageia Goes For 9 Month Release 
Cycle"]. 2011-07-18. Retrieved 2012-04-20.
    ^ [https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Cauldron "Cauldron - Mageia wiki"]. Retrieved 
2012-04-20.
    ^ [http://www.waybeta.com/news/85180/mandriva-linux-bifurcation-mageia-
project-released-the-first-alpha-version-of-_mandriva-linux/ "Mandriva Linux 
bifurcation Mageia project released the first Alpha version of _Mandriva Linux"]. 
waybeta. Retrieved 2012-04-20.

== See also == 

Portal icon 	Free Software portal

    [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandriva_Linux Mandriva Linux] distribution
    [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandriva Mandriva, SA] (corporation)
    [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCLinuxOS PCLinuxOS] — another Linux 
Distribution based on Mandriva Linux
    [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Linux Unity Linux] — a Mandriva-based 
distribution designed to be a base for end user distributions.

== External links == 

    [http://www.mageia.org/ Official website]
    [http://wiki.mageia.org/ Mageia Wiki]
    [https://www.mageia.org/mailman/ Mailing lists]

Romain d'Alverny | 20 May 2012 16:57
Picon
Gravatar

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Hi,

On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Macxi <terraagua@...> wrote:
> I think Is possible to create the Mageia page in wikipedia again, but if it is
> like before, it will be deleted again.

Yes. The debate is not/no more to know if the decision to delete the
previous page was good/fit/justified or not. There were reasons, we
should just take them into account.

> Below is a suggested text, with some reference.

Looks good, but I'd remove the whole part about Mandrakesoft/Mandriva
history, that is related, but much more appropriate on a separate page
(Mandriva's one at least) than Mageia's. That doesn't prevent to
explain shortly the why's of this fork, but it should not be that
extensive on prior Mandriva history.

References are good, but be careful, there are many ones in mageia.org
(not forbidden because in this case, they are the references for the
citation, but the article content should be supported by other,
independant [news] sites too).

I believe Trish had opened a piratepad somewhere to prepare the page?
(can't find the URL back) Could you try to get in sync?

Macxi | 20 May 2012 22:21
Picon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Em dom 20 mai 2012, às 11:57:42, Romain d'Alverny escreveu:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Macxi <terraagua@...> wrote:
> > I think Is possible to create the Mageia page in wikipedia again, but if
> > it is like before, it will be deleted again.
> 
> Yes. The debate is not/no more to know if the decision to delete the
> previous page was good/fit/justified or not. There were reasons, we
> should just take them into account.

I agree

> > Below is a suggested text, with some reference.
> 
> Looks good, but I'd remove the whole part about Mandrakesoft/Mandriva
> history, that is related, but much more appropriate on a separate page
> (Mandriva's one at least) than Mageia's. That doesn't prevent to
> explain shortly the why's of this fork, but it should not be that
> extensive on prior Mandriva history.

ok

> References are good, but be careful, there are many ones in mageia.org
> (not forbidden because in this case, they are the references for the
> citation, but the article content should be supported by other,
> independant [news] sites too).

ok

> I believe Trish had opened a piratepad somewhere to prepare the page?
> (can't find the URL back) Could you try to get in sync?

What good news,
We can edit collaboratively  before to create the new page

Cheers
Macxi

Johnny A. Solbu | 20 May 2012 19:56

New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Sunday 20 May 2012 16:39, Macxi wrote:
> Any person registered can create the page again, but someone has to help edit it 
> to get better, to prevent it is not deleted again.

There is also the posibuillity to use a Sandbox in order to create a new page. I have therefore created a
Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Solbu/Mageia
So here we have a testpage that uses Wikipedia formats and templates, so that we know wha tit will actually
look like when it moves to the actuall Mageia article.
The page i've made is small and is obviously missing a lot. But that can be worked on, possibly by those of you
who wan't to help developing it. :-)=

So let's do it right this time. :-)=
The main objection in the original complaint on the article, was that it used almost only Mageias own
webpages as the source. Feel free to edit the page, and use external sources whenever possible.

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Doug Laidlaw | 20 May 2012 20:06
Picon
Favicon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Sun, 20 May 2012 18:56:42 +0100
"Johnny A. Solbu" <cooker@...> wrote:

> The main objection in the original complaint on the article, was that
> it used almost only Mageias own webpages as the source. Feel free to
> edit the page, and use external sources whenever possible.
> 
And Mageia's webpages are intended to whip up business, while Wikipedia
wants to be more like the Encyclopedia Britannica.  Actualy, I didn't
think that Hoover's page
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hoover_Company) was too bad, but you
will see the editor's note at the top.

Doug.

Macxi | 20 May 2012 22:32
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

Em dom 20 mai 2012, às 14:56:42, Johnny A. Solbu escreveu:
> On Sunday 20 May 2012 16:39, Macxi wrote:
> > Any person registered can create the page again, but someone has to help
> > edit it to get better, to prevent it is not deleted again.
> 
> There is also the posibuillity to use a Sandbox in order to create a new
> page. I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we
> can work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Solbu/Mageia

> So here we have a testpage that uses Wikipedia formats and templates, so
> that we know wha tit will actually look like when it moves to the actuall
> Mageia article. The page i've made is small and is obviously missing a
> lot. But that can be worked on, possibly by those of you who wan't to help
> developing it. :-)=
> 
> So let's do it right this time. :-)=
> The main objection in the original complaint on the article, was that it
> used almost only Mageias own webpages as the source. Feel free to edit the
> page, and use external sources whenever possible.

Johnny,

What good news, another great tool to configure the page (in addition to 
piratepad commented by Romain), which can best help edit the page Mageia.

I did not know these two options, I think this will help a lot.

Cheers
Macxi

Johnny A. Solbu | 20 May 2012 22:57

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Sunday 20 May 2012 22:32, Macxi wrote:
> What good news, another great tool to configure the page

Feel free to edit the Mageia testpage I've created. If i'm the only one who's editing it, I think there will be
much that will be missing, as I don't know everything that should be included.
The reason I created it was for others to also join in on the fun. ;-)=

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Macxi | 20 May 2012 23:22
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

Em dom 20 mai 2012, às 17:57:28, Johnny A. Solbu escreveu:
> On Sunday 20 May 2012 22:32, Macxi wrote:
> > What good news, another great tool to configure the page
> 
> Feel free to edit the Mageia testpage I've created. If i'm the only one
> who's editing it, I think there will be much that will be missing, as I
> don't know everything that should be included. The reason I created it was
> for others to also join in on the fun. ;-)=

Johnny, 

This is a good idea. I hope it can be edited collaboratively.
As more people help, the better.

Yes it is a great way to test the page before publishing it.

Cheeers
Macxi

Johnny A. Solbu | 21 May 2012 05:37

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched

On Sunday 20 May 2012 23:22, Macxi wrote:
> I hope it can be edited collaboratively.

Heh. I have to laugh. Someone just put in the same information that resulted in the article deletion in the
first place. :-)=
Remember people, the entire history of the internal problems in Mandriva that resulted in the fork does not
belong in this article. especially when the only sources is from the Mageia websites. If it belongs in
wikipedia, it belongs in the Mandriva article.

This article is about Mageia and the Mageia distribution.

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Patricia Fraser | 21 May 2012 07:01
Gravatar

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched

> On Sunday 20 May 2012 23:22, Macxi wrote:
> > I hope it can be edited collaboratively.
> 
> Heh. I have to laugh. Someone just put in the same information that
> resulted in the article deletion in the first place. :-)= Remember
> people, the entire history of the internal problems in Mandriva that
> resulted in the fork does not belong in this article. especially when
> the only sources is from the Mageia websites. If it belongs in
> wikipedia, it belongs in the Mandriva article.
> 
> This article is about Mageia and the Mageia distribution.
> 
The guy who did the deletion said in a message to me, since deletion,
that it wasn't the content that got it deleted: it was the lack of
independent sources. That's what's needed - citations, external to
Mageia, that support what is said in the article.

I've gone over and done some proofing and minor edits. I'll try to add
some more info/citations about the community later in the day today.

Cheers,

--

-- 
Trish Fraser, VVMZ4 91L2V
-35.67896, 142.66637
Mon May 21 14:59:10 EST 2012
GNU/Linux 1997-2011 #283226 linuxcounter.net
hermes up 7 hour(s), 38 min.
kernel 2.6.38.8-desktop-10.mga
--
Johnny A. Solbu | 21 May 2012 23:20

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
> I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can work on. That way it can be moved to the
main article when it's ready.

And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Dimitrios Glentadakis | 21 May 2012 23:33
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)


Le 21 mai 2012 23:20, "Johnny A. Solbu" <cooker-nB3yj4prZmReoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> a écrit :
>
> On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
> > I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.
>
> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia
>
> --
> Johnny A. Solbu
> PGP key ID: 0xFA687324

It looks good, dont forget to take a backup ;)

Patricia Fraser | 21 May 2012 23:48
Gravatar

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

> Le 21 mai 2012 23:20, "Johnny A. Solbu" <cooker@...> a écrit :
> >
> > On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
> > > I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we
> > > can
> work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.
> >
> > And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia
> >
> > --
> > Johnny A. Solbu
> > PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
> 
> It looks good, dont forget to take a backup ;)

Looks great!

--

-- 
Trish Fraser, VVMZ4 91L2V
-35.67896, 142.66637
Tue May 22 07:48:18 EST 2012
GNU/Linux 1997-2011 #283226 linuxcounter.net
hermes up 0 hour(s), 41 min.
kernel 2.6.38.8-desktop-10.mga
--
Michael Hill | 22 May 2012 02:19
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Johnny A. Solbu <cooker@...> wrote:

> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia

Looks terrific!

Romain d'Alverny | 22 May 2012 10:24
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Gravatar

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Johnny A. Solbu <cooker@...> wrote:
> On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
>> I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can work on. That way it can be moved to the
main article when it's ready.
>
> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia

Excellent. Thanks guys!

Just one note.

"On September 17, 2010, Mandriva S.A. held a General Assembly that
approved the entry of new shareholders from Russia [6], and also
decided not to rehire the employees of the Mandriva team (Edge IT in
France)."

Edge IT liquidation is not related to Sept. 17th GA. Those were two
separate things. On Sept. 2nd, Edge IT was effectively placed under
liquidation process by the Paris Tribunal de Commerce; there's a
2-weeks delay before it was effective for employees; that meant that
on Sept. 17th, all Edge IT employees were released.

Sources (in French):
 - http://www.societe.com/societe/edge-it-444481204.html (it's a
registry of French companies)
 - all ex-employees, but that's not easy to quote :)

I'm not sure how to port this into this paragraph though.

Maarten Vanraes | 22 May 2012 12:20
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Johnny A. Solbu <cooker@...>
> wrote:
>> On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
>>> I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can
>>> work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.
>>
>> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia
>
> Excellent. Thanks guys!
>
> Just one note.
>
> "On September 17, 2010, Mandriva S.A. held a General Assembly that
> approved the entry of new shareholders from Russia [6], and also
> decided not to rehire the employees of the Mandriva team (Edge IT in
> France)."
>
> Edge IT liquidation is not related to Sept. 17th GA. Those were two
> separate things. On Sept. 2nd, Edge IT was effectively placed under
> liquidation process by the Paris Tribunal de Commerce; there's a
> 2-weeks delay before it was effective for employees; that meant that
> on Sept. 17th, all Edge IT employees were released.
>
> Sources (in French):
>  - http://www.societe.com/societe/edge-it-444481204.html (it's a
> registry of French companies)
>  - all ex-employees, but that's not easy to quote :)
>
> I'm not sure how to port this into this paragraph though.
>

also, it needs a section on how to pronounce it (the link below already
has some info on that, and i'm sure there's mails in the mailing archives
that deal with those too...

Can we also have a small part on what was problematic under Mandriva
(communication with higher-ups), and our organizational structure, which
is pretty notable on it's own

Maarten Vanraes | 22 May 2012 12:21
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Johnny A. Solbu <cooker@...>
> wrote:
>> On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
>>> I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can
>>> work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.
>>
>> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia
>
> Excellent. Thanks guys!
>
> Just one note.
>
> "On September 17, 2010, Mandriva S.A. held a General Assembly that
> approved the entry of new shareholders from Russia [6], and also
> decided not to rehire the employees of the Mandriva team (Edge IT in
> France)."
>
> Edge IT liquidation is not related to Sept. 17th GA. Those were two
> separate things. On Sept. 2nd, Edge IT was effectively placed under
> liquidation process by the Paris Tribunal de Commerce; there's a
> 2-weeks delay before it was effective for employees; that meant that
> on Sept. 17th, all Edge IT employees were released.
>
> Sources (in French):
>  - http://www.societe.com/societe/edge-it-444481204.html (it's a
> registry of French companies)
>  - all ex-employees, but that's not easy to quote :)
>
> I'm not sure how to port this into this paragraph though.
>

also, package manager isn't RPM, it's "urpmi (RPM)" check with Fedora
page, they also have yum there

Maarten Vanraes | 22 May 2012 12:22
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Johnny A. Solbu <cooker@...>
> wrote:
[...]

also userland could be changed from GNU to systemd :-) or maybe
GNU/systemd :-)

andre999 | 22 May 2012 13:39
Favicon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched

Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
>    
>> I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can work on. That way it can be moved to the
main article when it's ready.
>>      
> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia
>
>    
Good work :)
But I notice that it says "Default user interface" is KDE.
However Gnome is equally present during the install process, as well as 
other options, such as LXDE under custom install.
(The dual iso contains only LXDE, with links for downloading KDE or Gnome.)
As well, the live CDs are available for both KDE and Gnome.
So I suggest saying at least "KDE or Gnome", if not listing all the 
desktops available on installation.
The openSUSE Wikipedia article says "KDE, Gnome, Xfce, LXDE", for example.

WDYT ?

--

-- 
André

Pierre Jarillon | 23 May 2012 14:18
Favicon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

Le lundi 21 mai 2012 23:20:04, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
> > I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can
> > work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.
> 
> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia

Congratulations!
But the picture is still Mageia 1. Why this choice? Mageia2 is so beautiful...

--

-- 
Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/
Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org
Microsoft est à l'informatique ce que McDonald est à la gastronomie

Johnny A. Solbu | 23 May 2012 15:10

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Wednesday 23 May 2012 14:18, Pierre Jarillon wrote:
> But the picture is still Mageia 1. Why this choice?

Because Mageia 2 wasn't out when the article was created, I still don't have mga2 installed, and I didn't
look around in commons to find another one.

If you wan't to change it, upload a new picture on Wikimedia Commons, not the english wikipedia (yes, there
is a difference), so it can be used on the other language wikis also. Images which is uploaded to the english
wikipedia cannot be used on any other Wikipedia language than the english one. Every other Wikipedia
languages use Commons, as images on commons are licensed under a Free license, while the english
wikipedias images also have proprietary images. (The Fair Use clause is for USA only.)

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Johnny A. Solbu | 24 May 2012 00:05

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Wednesday 23 May 2012 14:18, Pierre Jarillon wrote:
> But the picture is still Mageia 1

And now I have replaced it with a screenshot of a Mageia 2 installation (Cauldron In Virtualbox, but still.)

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Pierre Jarillon | 25 May 2012 00:45
Favicon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

Le jeudi 24 mai 2012 00:05:42, Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> On Wednesday 23 May 2012 14:18, Pierre Jarillon wrote:
> > But the picture is still Mageia 1
> 
> And now I have replaced it with a screenshot of a Mageia 2 installation
> (Cauldron In Virtualbox, but still.)

Yes that's fine, but icons are not in english on the english wikipedia ;-)

--

-- 
Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/
Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org
Microsoft est à l'informatique ce que McDonald est à la gastronomie

Johnny A. Solbu | 25 May 2012 01:48

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Friday 25 May 2012 00:45, Pierre Jarillon wrote:
> but icons are not in english on the english wikipedia ;-)

That's because I use norwegian language, and haven't figured out how to login with another language on a per
session basis.

It is fine by me if someone made a screenshot and replaced the norwegian file with an english one, as you can do
on Wikimedia Commons.

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
AL13N | 22 May 2012 12:23
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Johnny A. Solbu <cooker@...> wrote:
>> On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
>>> I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can
work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.
>>
>> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia
>
> Excellent. Thanks guys!
>
> Just one note.
>
> "On September 17, 2010, Mandriva S.A. held a General Assembly that
approved the entry of new shareholders from Russia [6], and also decided
not to rehire the employees of the Mandriva team (Edge IT in France)."
>
> Edge IT liquidation is not related to Sept. 17th GA. Those were two
separate things. On Sept. 2nd, Edge IT was effectively placed under
liquidation process by the Paris Tribunal de Commerce; there's a 2-weeks
delay before it was effective for employees; that meant that on Sept.
17th, all Edge IT employees were released.
>
> Sources (in French):
>  - http://www.societe.com/societe/edge-it-444481204.html (it's a
> registry of French companies)
>  - all ex-employees, but that's not easy to quote :)
>
> I'm not sure how to port this into this paragraph though.
>

also, package manager isn't RPM, it's "urpmi (RPM)" check with Fedora
page, they also have yum there

Johnny A. Solbu | 22 May 2012 13:16

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Tuesday 22 May 2012 12:23, AL13N wrote:
> also, package manager isn't RPM, it's "urpmi (RPM)"

I have to disagree. RPM is the package manager. The urpm tools are just frontends for RPM.

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
AL13N | 22 May 2012 14:04
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

> On Tuesday 22 May 2012 12:23, AL13N wrote:
>> also, package manager isn't RPM, it's "urpmi (RPM)"
>
> I have to disagree. RPM is the package manager. The urpm tools are just
> frontends for RPM.

i don't agree at all.

automatic dependency handling is code that comes from urpmi and not RPM
(RPMv5 for instance does that in itself).

if Fedora lists yum as package manager, we should put urpmi there.

imho, if rpm doesn't do automatic dependency handling, then it's not a
real package manager (contrary to what it name says), and it seems at
least fedora agrees with me.

andre999 | 22 May 2012 15:29
Favicon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

AL13N a écrit :
>> On Tuesday 22 May 2012 12:23, AL13N wrote:
>>      
>>> also, package manager isn't RPM, it's "urpmi (RPM)"
>>>        
>> I have to disagree. RPM is the package manager. The urpm tools are just
>> frontends for RPM.
>>      
> i don't agree at all.
>
> automatic dependency handling is code that comes from urpmi and not RPM
> (RPMv5 for instance does that in itself).
>    
That project name is RPM5 (as opposed to RPM).  It is only used by 
Mandriva, according to rpmfind.net

> if Fedora lists yum as package manager, we should put urpmi there.
>
> imho, if rpm doesn't do automatic dependency handling, then it's not a
> real package manager (contrary to what it name says), and it seems at
> least fedora agrees with me.
>
>    
the Wikipedia listing for Fedora lists Update method = Yum (PackageKit), 
and Package manager = RPM Package Manager.
we have Update method = urpmi (rpmdrake) and Package manager = RPM.
Maybe we should drop the "Update method" item,
and put Package manager = urpmi, rpmdrake (RPM) ?

--

-- 
André

Johnny A. Solbu | 22 May 2012 23:16

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Tuesday 22 May 2012 14:04, AL13N wrote:
> automatic dependency handling is code that comes from urpmi and not RPM

That is irrelevant. urpmi depends on rpm. If you manually remove rpm, urpmi will cease to work.
urpmi is nothing more that an advanced frontend for rpm. You cannot escape that.

The package manager is therefore RPM, and not URPMI

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Renaud (Ron) Olgiati | 23 May 2012 00:24

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Tuesday 22 May 2012 17:16 my mailbox was graced by a message from Johnny A. 
Solbu who wrote:
> The package manager is therefore RPM, and not URPMI

I would say rpm is a package installer, since it is unable to automatically 
manage dependencies etc. while urpmi is a manager.

Cheers,

Ron.
--

-- 
          In love, she who gives her portrait promises the original.
                                                           -- Bruton

                   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --

Renaud MICHEL | 22 May 2012 18:36
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Tuesday 22 May 2012 at 12:23:03, AL13N wrote :
> also, package manager isn't RPM, it's "urpmi (RPM)" check with Fedora
> page, they also have yum there

The PM in RPM actually stand for Package Manager, see http://rpm.org (as 
well as the description for the rpm package).
You don't need urpmi (or yum, or ...) to install/uninstall packages, they 
only help you find the packages and resolve their dependencies.

--

-- 
Renaud Michel

AL13N | 22 May 2012 12:23
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Johnny A. Solbu <cooker@...> wrote:
[...]

also userland could be changed from GNU to systemd :-) or maybe
GNU/systemd :-)

AL13N | 22 May 2012 12:23
Picon

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Johnny A. Solbu <cooker@...> wrote:
>> On Sunday 20 May 2012 19:56, Johnny A. Solbu wrote:
>>> I have therefore created a Mageia page in my own sandbox, that we can
work on. That way it can be moved to the main article when it's ready.
>>
>> And now we have a Wikipedia article, with sources. :-)=
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia
>
> Excellent. Thanks guys!
>
> Just one note.
>
> "On September 17, 2010, Mandriva S.A. held a General Assembly that
approved the entry of new shareholders from Russia [6], and also decided
not to rehire the employees of the Mandriva team (Edge IT in France)."
>
> Edge IT liquidation is not related to Sept. 17th GA. Those were two
separate things. On Sept. 2nd, Edge IT was effectively placed under
liquidation process by the Paris Tribunal de Commerce; there's a 2-weeks
delay before it was effective for employees; that meant that on Sept.
17th, all Edge IT employees were released.
>
> Sources (in French):
>  - http://www.societe.com/societe/edge-it-444481204.html (it's a
> registry of French companies)
>  - all ex-employees, but that's not easy to quote :)
>
> I'm not sure how to port this into this paragraph though.
>

also, it needs a section on how to pronounce it (the link below already
has some info on that, and i'm sure there's mails in the mailing archives
that deal with those too...

Can we also have a small part on what was problematic under Mandriva
(communication with higher-ups), and our organizational structure, which
is pretty notable on it's own

Johnny A. Solbu | 22 May 2012 13:15

Re: New Wikipedia Mageia testpage launched (was: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted)

On Tuesday 22 May 2012 12:23, AL13N wrote:
> Can we also have a small part on what was problematic under Mandriva
> (communication with higher-ups), and our organizational structure, which
> is pretty notable on it's own

As long as you can find the sources from websites other that Mageias own webpages, it's ok.
if so, then edit the page and add it. :-)=

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Johnny A. Solbu | 20 May 2012 20:59

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Sunday 20 May 2012 16:39, Macxi wrote:
> According to DistroWatch, Mageia <...> is the third most visited RPM-based 
> Linux distribution

How do you list/view the rank of only rpm based distros on Distro Watch?

--

-- 
Johnny A. Solbu
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
Macxi | 20 May 2012 23:16
Picon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Em dom 20 mai 2012, às 15:59:55, Johnny A. Solbu escreveu:
> On Sunday 20 May 2012 16:39, Macxi wrote:
> > According to DistroWatch, Mageia <...> is the third most visited
> > RPM-based Linux distribution
> 
> How do you list/view the rank of only rpm based distros on Distro Watch?

Johnny, 

I don't know, maybe this source should not be considered as so important. 

And we should worry about the other various information about the Mageia, which 
we know are available and have many sources of verifiable/reliable information.

Cheers
Macxi

andre999 | 21 May 2012 04:15
Favicon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> On Sunday 20 May 2012 16:39, Macxi wrote:
>    
>> According to DistroWatch, Mageia<...>  is the third most visited RPM-based
>> Linux distribution
>>      
> How do you list/view the rank of only rpm based distros on Distro Watch?
>
>    
Just look at the top 5.
Only Fedora and openSuse are RPM-based (and not Mint, Ubuntu, and Debian).
I see that we are getting pretty close to Debian and openSuse.
And the only one gaining in the top 10.
We risk to be soon number 3 overall, and number 2 for RPM-based

--

-- 
André

Doug Laidlaw | 21 May 2012 05:51
Picon
Favicon

Re: page of Mageia in wikipedia (in english) has been deleted

On Sun, 20 May 2012 22:15:30 -0400
andre999 <andre999mga@...> wrote:

> Johnny A. Solbu a écrit :
> > On Sunday 20 May 2012 16:39, Macxi wrote:
> >    
> >> According to DistroWatch, Mageia<...>  is the third most visited
> >> RPM-based Linux distribution
> >>      
> > How do you list/view the rank of only rpm based distros on Distro
> > Watch?
> >
> >    
> Just look at the top 5.
> Only Fedora and openSuse are RPM-based (and not Mint, Ubuntu, and
> Debian). I see that we are getting pretty close to Debian and
> openSuse. And the only one gaining in the top 10.
> We risk to be soon number 3 overall, and number 2 for RPM-based
> 
When you think of it, that is quite an achievement for 18 months!  As I
write, Mageia is No. 6 at Distrowatch.com, and the first one whose star
is rising.  Ubuntu is steady, and all the others are heading down.  The
next one heading up is Ultimate, an Ubuntu derivative, at No. 11.
This is based on page hits, so activity in the distro will be an
influence.

Doug.


Gmane