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Elad Alfassa | 18 Jun 2012 17:07
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Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

refer to this thread in -devel: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html

As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you run a kernel update.
Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called Fedora.
It should be something like Fedora (with Linux kernel version here).

What is the stand of the design team on this?

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-Elad Alfassa.

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Martin Sourada | 18 Jun 2012 23:52
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

Hi Elad,

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:07:59 +0300 
Elad Alfassa wrote:

> refer to this thread in -devel:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
> 
> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in
> the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you
> run a kernel update.
> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
> Fedora.
> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux *kernel version here*).
> 
> What is the stand of the design team on this?
> 

first of all, I do *not* speak for the design team, just stating my
opinion.

The intended design is probably best what we can have but,
 * Given the fedora target audience, it's not uncommon to have multiple
   fedoras installed, so it would be good if the items looked like
   Fedora $REL_VER$ $REL_NAME$ (or without the release name).
 * All kernels should be in subdirectory. That the current kernel
   updates break the intended setup (as set-up in /etc) is obviously
   incorrect and should be fixed. Both ways (submenus or direct menu)
   are better than current state of things.
 * I do not seem to see any theme, even though there's obviously the
   beefy-miracle one installed. It's probably missing in configs
   (/etc/grub.d/) though -- my issue, or a general one?

Cheers,
Martin

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Ryan Gauger | 19 Jun 2012 00:16
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

Isn’t this a bit ot? This is the design team, which is meant for design of Fedora (not the OS itself, but the theme, artwork, etc). I’m not over the team, or a mod, but I think this is ot, and is kind of strange seeing this in a design team... Thanks!
 
 
From: Martin Sourada <martin.sourada <at> gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 4:52:46 PM
To: design-team <at> lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Design-team] Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective
 
Hi Elad,

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:07:59 +0300
Elad Alfassa wrote:

> refer to this thread in -devel:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
>
> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in
> the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you
> run a kernel update.
> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
> Fedora.
> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux *kernel version here*).
>
> What is the stand of the design team on this?
>

first of all, I do *not* speak for the design team, just stating my
opinion.

The intended design is probably best what we can have but,
 * Given the fedora target audience, it's not uncommon to have multiple
  fedoras installed, so it would be good if the items looked like
  Fedora $REL_VER$ $REL_NAME$ (or without the release name).
 * All kernels should be in subdirectory. That the current kernel
  updates break the intended setup (as set-up in /etc) is obviously
  incorrect and should be fixed. Both ways (submenus or direct menu)
  are better than current state of things.
 * I do not seem to see any theme, even though there's obviously the
  beefy-miracle one installed. It's probably missing in configs
  (/etc/grub.d/) though -- my issue, or a general one?

Cheers,
Martin

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Elad Alfassa | 19 Jun 2012 00:24
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 1:16 AM, Ryan Gauger <rtgkid <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Isn’t this a bit ot? This is the design team, which is meant for design of
> Fedora (not the OS itself, but the theme, artwork, etc). I’m not over the
> team, or a mod, but I think this is ot, and is kind of strange seeing this
> in a design team... Thanks!
We design the OS, that includes artwork and UX.
>
>
> From: Martin Sourada <martin.sourada <at> gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 4:52:46 PM
> To: design-team <at> lists.fedoraproject.org
> Subject: Re: [Design-team] Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective
>
> Hi Elad,
>
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 18:07:59 +0300
> Elad Alfassa wrote:
>
> > refer to this thread in -devel:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
> >
> > As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in
> > the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you
> > run a kernel update.
> > Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
> > Fedora.
> > It should be something like Fedora (with Linux *kernel version here*).
> >
> > What is the stand of the design team on this?
> >
>
> first of all, I do *not* speak for the design team, just stating my
> opinion.
>
> The intended design is probably best what we can have but,
>  * Given the fedora target audience, it's not uncommon to have multiple
>   fedoras installed, so it would be good if the items looked like
>   Fedora $REL_VER$ $REL_NAME$ (or without the release name).
Agreed.
>  * All kernels should be in subdirectory. That the current kernel
>   updates break the intended setup (as set-up in /etc) is obviously
>   incorrect and should be fixed. Both ways (submenus or direct menu)
>   are better than current state of things.
My thoughts as well
>  * I do not seem to see any theme, even though there's obviously the
>   beefy-miracle one installed. It's probably missing in configs
>   (/etc/grub.d/) though -- my issue, or a general one?
The theme was disabled cause apparently it caused performance issues
on lower-end computers :(
you can enable it by adding this line
GRUB_THEME=/boot/grub2/themes/system/theme.txt
to the file /etc/default/grub
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team <at> lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team <at> lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

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Máirín Duffy | 19 Jun 2012 09:21
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

Hi Elad,

On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 18:07 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
> refer to this thread in -devel:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
> 
> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in
> the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you
> run a kernel update.

Yeh, it definitely sounds like broken behavior. Maybe we should get
together with Josh Boyer and Peter Jones and see if we can't figure out
some way to have older kernels go under the submenu.

> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
> Fedora. 
> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux kernel version here).

> What is the stand of the design team on this?

Well, fwiw, I think you're correct, it should just be 'Fedora' (Maybe
Fedora + $RELEASE_NUMBER) not 'Fedora Linux.' However, I think the
kernel versions should be in the submenu with, if I understand
correctly, the older kernels listed out, but the newest one should just
say Fedora. Is that too extreme?

~m

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Elad Alfassa | 19 Jun 2012 10:07
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Máirín Duffy <duffy <at> fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Hi Elad,
>
> On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 18:07 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
>> refer to this thread in -devel:
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
>>
>> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in
>> the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you
>> run a kernel update.
>
> Yeh, it definitely sounds like broken behavior. Maybe we should get
> together with Josh Boyer and Peter Jones and see if we can't figure out
> some way to have older kernels go under the submenu.
>
>> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
>> Fedora.
>> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux kernel version here).
>
>> What is the stand of the design team on this?
>
> Well, fwiw, I think you're correct, it should just be 'Fedora' (Maybe
> Fedora + $RELEASE_NUMBER) not 'Fedora Linux.' However, I think the
> kernel versions should be in the submenu with, if I understand
> correctly, the older kernels listed out, but the newest one should just
> say Fedora. Is that too extreme?
Sounds reasonable. Show kernel versions only when they are really needed.
>
> ~m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team <at> lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

--

-- 
-Elad Alfassa.
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Dan Mashal | 20 Jun 2012 04:08
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

Personal opinion from a longtime fedora user:

1) Why do I have to go to a separate menu to choose a different kernel? Granted, I don't often have to choose an older or custom kernel but "If it ain't broke don't fix it."
2) It should just be "Fedora".
3) I don't like the way the grub menu looks right now with or without the theme. I like the old text non ubuntu/debian looking grub menu but that's just the oldskool person in me talking.

EOF

Dan

On Jun 19, 2012 1:07 AM, "Elad Alfassa" <elad <at> fedoraproject.org> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Máirín Duffy <duffy <at> fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Hi Elad,
>
> On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 18:07 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
>> refer to this thread in -devel:
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
>>
>> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in
>> the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you
>> run a kernel update.
>
> Yeh, it definitely sounds like broken behavior. Maybe we should get
> together with Josh Boyer and Peter Jones and see if we can't figure out
> some way to have older kernels go under the submenu.
>
>> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
>> Fedora.
>> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux kernel version here).
>
>> What is the stand of the design team on this?
>
> Well, fwiw, I think you're correct, it should just be 'Fedora' (Maybe
> Fedora + $RELEASE_NUMBER) not 'Fedora Linux.' However, I think the
> kernel versions should be in the submenu with, if I understand
> correctly, the older kernels listed out, but the newest one should just
> say Fedora. Is that too extreme?
Sounds reasonable. Show kernel versions only when they are really needed.
>
> ~m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team <at> lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team



--
-Elad Alfassa.
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Elad Alfassa | 20 Jun 2012 09:09
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective



On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 5:08 AM, Dan Mashal <dan.mashal <at> gmail.com> wrote:

Personal opinion from a longtime fedora user:

1) Why do I have to go to a separate menu to choose a different kernel? Granted, I don't often have to choose an older or custom kernel but "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

Simply because we want to make Fedora easier to use. For novice users, the kernel versions are just noise, they mean nothing, and probably cause a lot of confusion. Especially if they dual-boot, they wouldn't know what to choose, and might actually boot an older kernel regularly.
Furthermore, you can always revert to the current behaviour by simply editing some configuration files.

2) It should just be "Fedora".

Without release number? what if you have both Rawhide and 17 installed?
I think it should be Fedora $number

3) I don't like the way the grub menu looks right now with or without the theme. I like the old text non ubuntu/debian looking grub menu but that's just the oldskool person in me talking. 

Well, I like how it looks with the theme, but if you don't like it you could always make your own theme to make it look like you want, or talk with upstream grub and explain to them why you think the default doesn't look good.

EOF

Dan

On Jun 19, 2012 1:07 AM, "Elad Alfassa" <elad <at> fedoraproject.org> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Máirín Duffy <duffy <at> fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Hi Elad,
>
> On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 18:07 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
>> refer to this thread in -devel:
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
>>
>> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in
>> the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you
>> run a kernel update.
>
> Yeh, it definitely sounds like broken behavior. Maybe we should get
> together with Josh Boyer and Peter Jones and see if we can't figure out
> some way to have older kernels go under the submenu.
>
>> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
>> Fedora.
>> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux kernel version here).
>
>> What is the stand of the design team on this?
>
> Well, fwiw, I think you're correct, it should just be 'Fedora' (Maybe
> Fedora + $RELEASE_NUMBER) not 'Fedora Linux.' However, I think the
> kernel versions should be in the submenu with, if I understand
> correctly, the older kernels listed out, but the newest one should just
> say Fedora. Is that too extreme?
Sounds reasonable. Show kernel versions only when they are really needed.
>
> ~m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team <at> lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team



--
-Elad Alfassa.
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--
-Elad Alfassa.

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Máirín Duffy | 21 Jun 2012 03:36
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

On 2012-06-19 22:08, Dan Mashal wrote:
> Personal opinion from a longtime fedora user:
>
> 1) Why do I have to go to a separate menu to choose a different
> kernel? Granted, I don't often have to choose an older or custom
> kernel but "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

You should have to go to a separate menu to choose a different kernel 
because as you yourself admitted you do not often have to choose an 
older or custom kernel. If they are always displayed when most of the 
time you don't need them, they are cluttering up the menu and making it 
harder for you to choose what you really want from a more manageable set 
of choices.

>  2) It should just be "Fedora".

I hear your opinion on this. We could get guidance on the board from 
this if we can't decide.

>  3) I don't like the way the grub menu looks right now with or 
> without
> the theme. I like the old text non ubuntu/debian looking grub menu 
> but
> that's just the oldskool person in me talking.

Again, your personal opinion is noted. If oldskool is your interest 
though, it might be better to either go with a more oldskool distro or 
install an oldskool looking theme if that is your preference.

~m
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Frank Murphy | 21 Jun 2012 08:09
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Re: Fedora GRUB2 boot menu, from design perspective

On 18/06/12 16:07, Elad Alfassa wrote:
> refer to this thread in -devel:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
>
> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in the
> "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you run a
> kernel update.

Caused by Grubby. iirc the dev(s) not going to change it.

> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
> Fedora.
> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux /kernel version here/).

Caused by Grub2-mkconfig

--

-- 
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"
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Gmane