headers
Lyos Gemini Norezel | 7 Sep 13:07

Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

It's come to my attention lately that Fedora has, essensially, become 
'to big for it's britches' (as you old farts like to say).
I think the time has come for Fedora to be split up into subgroups:

Fedora-Mainstream - For mainstream (ie., 'idiot') users... the types of 
people who buy a $399 Wal-mart POS and expect it to 'Just Work' forever.

Fedora-Mini- Generic group for all 'miniature' Fedora distributions... 
of which I'm sure I'm missing several.
    --Fedora-Embedded - Self explanatory I suspect
    --Fedora-Low-Bandwidth - For people on low bandwidth connections... 
this group would be primarily focused on 'how long will this take to 
download?'

Fedora-Development - Generic development platform

Fedora-HPC - The High Performance Computing segment

Fedora-Legacy - Everything older than a Pentium 3 (or, alternatively... 
all processors slower than ~1.0GHz).

Fedora-Server - Server distribution... should include all tools 
necessary to setup various servers

Fedora-Live - All of the 'Live' distributions should go here... anything 
from LiveCDs to LiveUSB images.

This proposal is far from complete... but I think it is necessary to 
stop trying to be a 'everything and the kitchen sink' distribution...
and instead focus more on the groups that use fedora. For instance, the
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Lyos Gemini Norezel | 7 Sep 13:13

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Lyos Gemini Norezel wrote:
> Fedora-Mainstream - For mainstream (ie., 'idiot') users... the types 
> of people who buy a $399 Wal-mart POS and expect it to 'Just Work' 
> forever.
>       Fedora-Mini- Generic group for all 'miniature' Fedora 
> distributions... of which I'm sure I'm missing several.
>    --Fedora-Embedded - Self explanatory I suspect
>    --Fedora-Low-Bandwidth - For people on low bandwidth connections... 
> this group would be primarily focused on 'how long will this take to 
> download?'

*Sigh*... my formatting skills are evidently lacking... the above should 
read:

Fedora-Mainstream - For mainstream (ie., 'idiot') users... the types of 
people who buy a $399 Wal-mart POS and expect it to 'Just Work' forever.

Fedora-Mini- Generic group for all 'miniature' Fedora distributions... 
of which I'm sure I'm missing several.
   --Fedora-Embedded - Self explanatory I suspect
   --Fedora-Low-Bandwidth - For people on low bandwidth connections... 
this group would be primarily focused on 'how long will this take to 
download?'

Lyos Gemini Norezel

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
drago01 | 7 Sep 13:35

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Lyos Gemini Norezel
<lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> What do ya'll think?

That's what spins are for.

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Lyos Gemini Norezel | 7 Sep 13:50

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

drago01 wrote:
> That's what spins are for.
Perhaps... but that doesn't help the main distribution.
With the main distribution... ya'll are just encouraging the unhealthy
attitude that 'bloated is better'. Why encourage people to use an OS
that is bogged down with crap they don't need and will never use?

I just think it's time for the Fedora community to redefine it's aim/goals.

Lyos Gemini Norezel

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Conrad Meyer | 7 Sep 14:08

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Quoth Lyos Gemini Norezel:
> drago01 wrote:
> > That's what spins are for.
> Perhaps... but that doesn't help the main distribution.
> With the main distribution... ya'll are just encouraging the unhealthy
> attitude that 'bloated is better'. Why encourage people to use an OS
> that is bogged down with crap they don't need and will never use?
> 
> I just think it's time for the Fedora community to redefine it's aim/goals.
> 
> Lyos Gemini Norezel

It's not like everyone must install Fedora Everything. Most users install the 
basic desktop and then go from there. I think most Debian users do something 
roughly like that too.

Regards,
-- 
Conrad Meyer <konrad <at> tylerc.org>

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Pavel Shevchuk | 7 Sep 13:52
Gravatar

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Lyos Gemini Norezel
<lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Fedora-Development - Generic development platform

DVD has "Development" group with libs and headers and GCC and what not.

> Fedora-Legacy - Everything older than a Pentium 3 (or, alternatively... all
> processors slower than ~1.0GHz).

Join XFCE SIG, they create spin with lightweight software.

> Fedora-Server - Server distribution... should include all tools necessary to
> setup various servers

Again, DVD has "Server" group, and "Storage clustering" and "Virtualization"...

> Fedora-Live - All of the 'Live' distributions should go here... anything
> from LiveCDs to LiveUSB images.

Desktop Media, KDE Media. They're also installable on USB

> This proposal is far from complete... but I think it is necessary to stop
> trying to be a 'everything and the kitchen sink' distribution...
> and instead focus more on the groups that use fedora. For instance, the
> majority of those on mainstream, are not going to need stuff
> like apache, perl, python, etc.

Majority of mainstream can use live media. Making them choose between
>10 installation media is pointless
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Lyos Gemini Norezel | 7 Sep 22:12

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Pavel Shevchuk wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Lyos Gemini Norezel
> <lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Fedora-Development - Generic development platform
>>     
>
> DVD has "Development" group with libs and headers and GCC and what not.
>   

Sure... but why not have a distribution just for the developers?

>> Fedora-Legacy - Everything older than a Pentium 3 (or, alternatively... all
>> processors slower than ~1.0GHz).
>>     
>
> Join XFCE SIG, they create spin with lightweight software.
>   

>> Fedora-Server - Server distribution... should include all tools necessary to
>> setup various servers
>>     
>
> Again, DVD has "Server" group, and "Storage clustering" and "Virtualization"...
>   

And again... why not create a distribution for Servers?

>> Fedora-Live - All of the 'Live' distributions should go here... anything
>> from LiveCDs to LiveUSB images.
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Peter Gordon | 7 Sep 22:19

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, 2008-09-07 at 16:12 -0400, Lyos Gemini Norezel wrote:
> Sure... but why not have a distribution just for the developers?
> [...]
> And again... why not create a distribution for Servers?
> [...]
> Ok... but again... why not have a distribution aim specifically at
> developers?

If you want to duplicate such an immense workload with only minor
changes here and there, feel free; but we as developers are
intrinsically a bit lazy: we like things to work simply and effectively.
Duplicating much unnecessary work like this is essentially asking for
loads of error and frustration...
-- 
Peter Gordon (codergeek42)
GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint:
  DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Callum Lerwick | 7 Sep 22:29

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, 2008-09-07 at 16:12 -0400, Lyos Gemini Norezel wrote:
> Pavel Shevchuk wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Lyos Gemini Norezel
> > <lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> >   
> >> Fedora-Development - Generic development platform
> >>     
> >
> > DVD has "Development" group with libs and headers and GCC and what not.
> >   
> 
> Sure... but why not have a distribution just for the developers?

And what is the software you develop going to test and run on? Are you
developing desktop applications, server/web applications, or both?

So the "developer" distribution is a superset of every other dist, which
means all sub-dists must not conflict and.... this whole idea is
completely senseless.

The raison d'être of a distribution is integration. Splitting it up runs
completely counter to this.

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Peter Gordon | 7 Sep 22:36

[OT] Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, 2008-09-07 at 15:29 -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote:
> The raison d'être of a distribution is integration. Splitting it up
> runs completely counter to this.

THAT'S the phrase I was looking for! Thanks. :D
-- 
Peter Gordon (codergeek42)
GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint:
  DD68 A414 56BD 6368 D957 9666 4268 CB7A FFC1 9479

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Pavel Shevchuk | 7 Sep 23:10
Gravatar

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Lyos Gemini Norezel
<lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Pavel Shevchuk wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Lyos Gemini Norezel
>> <lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Fedora-Development - Generic development platform
>>>
>>
>> DVD has "Development" group with libs and headers and GCC and what not.
>>
>
> Sure... but why not have a distribution just for the developers?

I'm developer. My CD bag has Centos 5, Fedora 6, 8, 9. i386 and
x86_64. All of them are DVDs.

At home i install gtk-devel, qt-devel, gcc, do some packaging and C++
dev. At work i install apache, php, mysql and do web dev. One size
fits all.

Lightweight desktop spin is sure nice idea (XFCE SIG is working on
it), but could you please care less about developers?

-- 
http://scwlab.com

--

--
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Stephen John Smoogen | 7 Sep 15:30

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Lyos Gemini Norezel
<lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> It's come to my attention lately that Fedora has, essensially, become 'to
> big for it's britches' (as you old farts like to say).
> I think the time has come for Fedora to be split up into subgroups:
>

What is too big for one's britches? That it doesn't fit on one cd?
That there is other code than that shipped on the DVD?

> To some extent, these groups already exist, but they are not/cannot be
> complete until the distribution is behind each one.
>
> I know many will knock this idea as "hard to maintain", but... is it really?
>
> The infrastructure will be difficult to setup, but once done, should be a
> breeze to maintain.
> Especially since everyone here already focuses on their ideal use case
> anyway.

Are you volunteering to help solve this problem with actual code and
showing how developer workflow will happen? Especially when package A
is needed by package B which is in X-01 sub-distro but not in X-02
because it doesn't fit the definition of X-02. Or when package A in
X-01 has been upgraded and your program in B doesn't work anymore
because it needed A-01 and the maintainer is no longer doing that...
and you don't find out until release time.

To be honest, anyone who says infrastructure should be a breeze to
maintain... has to define breeze... I have yet to see a build
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Les Mikesell | 7 Sep 21:56

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> 
> To be honest, anyone who says infrastructure should be a breeze to
> maintain... has to define breeze...

Is the FHS spec - or compliance - ever going to reach a point where it 
is possible to have distribution-agnostic packages?  Or even source 
builds that completely integrate with the packaged components - so every 
little program doesn't need special maintenance and different copies for 
every distro/version before their users can run it?

> I have yet to see a build
> infrastructure anywhere that is a 'breeze'... too many frickin' corner
> cases.

That probably can't be completely eliminated for things that require 
version-specific features to work at all, but there must be some way to 
reduce the number of corners for things that just need standard 
services.  It doesn't make any sense to require human intervention to 
fix things to work because of differences on an OS that is supposed to 
be presenting a standard interface.  Rather than splintering the 
distributions to accommodate and create even more differences, shouldn't 
the effort go towards making that less necessary?

-- 
   Les Mikesell
    lesmikesell <at> gmail.com

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Lyos Gemini Norezel | 7 Sep 21:56

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 5:09 AM, Lyos Gemini Norezel
> <lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> What is too big for one's britches? That it doesn't fit on one cd?
>> That there is other code than that shipped on the DVD?

> Are you volunteering to help solve this problem with actual code and
> showing how developer workflow will happen? 
I'm no coder... but I'd certainly be willing to do what I can to help.

Lyos Gemini Norezel

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Bruno Wolff III | 7 Sep 16:48

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, Sep 07, 2008 at 07:09:50 -0400,
  Lyos Gemini Norezel <lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What do ya'll think?

This really is what spins are for. By having one distribution the software
should all work together (in theory at least) making it easy to make new
spins with little effort.

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
nodata | 7 Sep 18:05

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Am Sonntag, den 07.09.2008, 07:09 -0400 schrieb Lyos Gemini Norezel:
> It's come to my attention lately that Fedora has, essensially, become 
> 'to big for it's britches' (as you old farts like to say).
> I think the time has come for Fedora to be split up into subgroups:
> 
> For mainstream (ie., 'idiot') users

Not helpful.

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Emmanuel Seyman | 7 Sep 20:02
Favicon

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

* nodata [07/09/2008 18:29] :
>
> Am Sonntag, den 07.09.2008, 07:09 -0400 schrieb Lyos Gemini Norezel:
>
> > For mainstream (ie., 'idiot') users
> 
> Not helpful.

Agreed.

Please stop calling people who want things to work out of the box idiots.
They're not.

Emmanuel

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Jeff Spaleta | 7 Sep 20:50

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Emmanuel Seyman
<emmanuel.seyman <at> club-internet.fr> wrote:
> Please stop calling people who want things to work out of the box idiots.
> They're not.

I'm a certified genius... and I'm officially speaking for the entire
genius subculture when I say i/we (for we share a hive mind to some
extent)  like things to work when I/we take them out of the box. That
way when I/we take then apart and try to put the back together I know
whether or not I've succeeded in my goal by using the initial
functionality as a baseline reference.

-jef"Or do i mean certifiable"spaleta

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Lyos Gemini Norezel | 7 Sep 21:57

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> I'm a certified genius... 

You're not the only one.

> and I'm officially speaking for the entire
> genius subculture when I say i/we (for we share a hive mind to some
> extent)  like things to work when I/we take them out of the box. 

Sure... until we wish to tinker. I've built thousands of computers (both 
personal and business)... I love putting things together to make them work.
I cannot count the number of times I've taken a rubbish bin of old 
computers... and made a dozen or more fully working computers, or the 
times I've
taken ancient, nearly unknown cards... and managed to get them to work 
on one computer or another. So, while having things "Just Work" is nice...
you should know that, nothing beats the thrill of making something new 
(or old) work again.

> -jef"Or do i mean certifiable"spaleta

I think you mean Certifiably Insane... since the vast majority of 
Geniuses in the world (past or present) have been/are clinically insane.

Lyos"loves being insane"Norezel

;-)

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Peter Gordon | 7 Sep 22:14

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, 2008-09-07 at 15:57 -0400, Lyos Gemini Norezel wrote:
> > and I'm officially speaking for the entire
> > genius subculture when I say i/we (for we share a hive mind to some
> > extent)  like things to work when I/we take them out of the box. 
> 
> Sure... until we wish to tinker. [...]

Please explicate this further. I, for one, love to tinker with my
system; and Fedora's strictly-organized packaging makes this vastly
simpler since I can just do similarly for my own things and know with
near-absolute certainty that it won't harm my system.

> > -jef"Or do i mean certifiable"spaleta
> 
> I think you mean Certifiably Insane... since the vast majority of 
> Geniuses in the world (past or present) have been/are clinically insane.

"Vast majority" and "All" are not logically equivalent. To put it
differently: correlation does not imply causation.

Just for fun, let's do this with a syllogism: If J (Jef) is a member of
the set G (all geniuses), and G is a partial subset of C (that is, a
vast majority of the elements in G are also in the set C -
certifiably-insane people), then there is not enough information in this
system to deductively infer that J is also a member of the set C. This
is because J being a member of the set G only makes it *likely*, but not
*certain*, that J is such.
--

-- 
Peter Gordon (codergeek42)
GnuPG Public Key ID: 0xFFC19479 / Fingerprint:
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Casey Dahlin | 8 Sep 21:07
Favicon

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Emmanuel Seyman
> <emmanuel.seyman <at> club-internet.fr> wrote:
>   
>> Please stop calling people who want things to work out of the box idiots.
>> They're not.
>>     
>
>
> I'm a certified genius... and I'm officially speaking for the entire
> genius subculture when I say i/we (for we share a hive mind to some
> extent)  like things to work when I/we take them out of the box. That
> way when I/we take then apart and try to put the back together I know
> whether or not I've succeeded in my goal by using the initial
> functionality as a baseline reference.
>
>
> -jef"Or do i mean certifiable"spaleta
>
>   
Certainly, but that's not to say there isn't an "idiot" class of users 
we need to worry about.

It isn't so much people who want things to just work. Its people who 
need to be protected from their own computer. Its an interesting 
question: do we want to pursue the same demographic as Nigerian scam 
artists? People who approach their machines the way early cave men must 
have first approached fire? People who, in the new age of ecommerce and 
scam artists, are posing a very real, tangible danger to themselves when 
they approach their computers?
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Jeff Spaleta | 8 Sep 21:15

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Casey Dahlin <cdahlin <at> redhat.com> wrote:
> Certainly, but that's not to say there isn't an "idiot" class of users we
> need to worry about.

I'm not so much worried about such a demographic..as I am about trying
to keep discourse from devolving into crass baseless bickering.  The
use of this particular word in the particular context of this
discussion... only serves to lower the level of discourse to the point
where this discussion is not worth having.  if proponents of the
concept of splitting Fedora into multiple overlapping distributions
must reach for such emotive language in their arguments.. then they
deserve to have their ideas fail to be taken credibly.

Good day.

-jef"I said good day!"spaleta

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Lyos Gemini Norezel | 7 Sep 21:56

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
> * nodata [07/09/2008 18:29] :
>   
>> Am Sonntag, den 07.09.2008, 07:09 -0400 schrieb Lyos Gemini Norezel:
>>     
>> Not helpful.
>>     
>
> Agreed.
>
> Please stop calling people who want things to work out of the box idiots.
> They're not.
>
> Emmanuel
>   

Look... regardless of your opinion... the majority of 'users' are 
idiots. Whether willfully ignorant or just plain stupid... these people 
comprise nearly 90% of the human race.

This just makes those of us who do care enough to use linux (or code for 
linux), somewhat special (or insane)... no?

Lyos Gemini Norezel

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Jarosław Górny | 7 Sep 22:28
Favicon

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Sunday 07 of September 2008 21:56:50 Lyos Gemini Norezel napisał(a):
> Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
> >
> > Please stop calling people who want things to work out of the box idiots.
> > They're not.
> >
>
> Look... regardless of your opinion... the majority of 'users' are
> idiots. Whether willfully ignorant or just plain stupid... these people
> comprise nearly 90% of the human race.
>
> This just makes those of us who do care enough to use linux (or code for
> linux), somewhat special (or insane)... no?
>

Following this logic, this 10% of population that are not idiots use Linux. So 
there's no need to make "Fedora-Mainstream - For mainstream (ie., 'idiot') 
users". Idiots won't use it.

regards,

-- 
jg

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Horst H. von Brand | 8 Sep 01:29

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Lyos Gemini Norezel <lyos.gemininorezel <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
> > * nodata [07/09/2008 18:29] :
> >
> >> Am Sonntag, den 07.09.2008, 07:09 -0400 schrieb Lyos Gemini Norezel:
> >>     Not helpful.
> >>
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > Please stop calling people who want things to work out of the box idiots.
> > They're not.
> >
> > Emmanuel

> Look... regardless of your opinion... the majority of 'users' are
> idiots. Whether willfully ignorant or just plain stupid... these
> people comprise nearly 90% of the human race.

No... it is just that nobody is able to deal "intelligently" with all
situations, they just don't have the resources. You /have/ to behave like
a complete dud in 90+% of things to concentrate on those few percent that
_really_ interest you/where you are _really_ good (and thus are able to
shine).

> This just makes those of us who do care enough to use linux (or code
> for linux), somewhat special (or insane)... no?

No, those who code for/tinker with Linux are just Linux geeks (a few
percent of all Linux users, by the above).
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Bruno Wolff III | 8 Sep 05:57

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, Sep 07, 2008 at 19:29:02 -0400,
  "Horst H. von Brand" <vonbrand <at> inf.utfsm.cl> wrote:
> 
> No, those who code for/tinker with Linux are just Linux geeks (a few
> percent of all Linux users, by the above).

I suspect a large portion of the population think people who waste their
time tinkering with their computers (as opposed to just using them) are the
idiots.

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Permalink | Reply |
headers
Richard W.M. Jones | 7 Sep 20:41
Favicon

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

On Sun, Sep 07, 2008 at 07:09:50AM -0400, Lyos Gemini Norezel wrote:
> Maybe it's just me, but I think it's time Fedora stops trying to become  
> another Debian, and starts catering to the groups that comprise it.

I just want to knock this silly idea on the head.  In my opinion there
should be no limits on how many packages get included in Fedora
Everything[i], except two: (1) It should be Free software that
complies with the guidelines and (2) Someone should be willing to put
in the time to maintain it.

Whenever there's a package which is missing, some user will say 'Oh
but it's in Debian' (along with all that other stuff) so I might as
well use Debian.  Unfortunately the mix of packages is different for
each user, so you have to have them all.

Rich.

[i] Packages which make it onto a CD/DVD/spin/mirrors is quite a
different matter of course.

-- 
Richard Jones, Emerging Technologies, Red Hat  http://et.redhat.com/~rjones
virt-p2v converts physical machines to virtual machines.  Boot with a
live CD or over the network (PXE) and turn machines into Xen guests.
http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-p2v

--

-- 
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list <at> redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |
headers
Matthew Woehlke | 10 Sep 19:30

Re: Proposal: Split Fedora into sub-distributions

Lyos Gemini Norezel wrote:
> It's come to my attention lately that Fedora has, essensially, become 
> 'to big for it's britches' (as you old farts like to say).
> I think the time has come for Fedora to be split up into subgroups:
> [snip]

That sounds like what we had a few releases back, with Core+Extras. I'm 
glad that's gone; less stuff available for initial install, more repos 
to manage... ick.

> By the same token, a developer is not likely to use any gui tool that 
> does not provide some extreme 'ease of use' case (be honest,
> how many of ya'll use vi or vim over gedit?).

Um... I wouldn't say I use vim "over" kwrite, I just use whichever seems 
most convenient at the time and for the given task. IOW, while I use 
kwrite/kate/kdevelop a lot, I *also* use vim a lot. Besides, having a 
CLI-only text editor is IMO absolutely vital. You need it when logging 
in remotely over a slow connections, or when things go wrong with X (or 
when you need to do a few things between reboots* and are too lazy to 
fire up a desktop environment).

(* e.g. one of these days I /really/ need to power down, swap in my 
dying laptop's HD, dump files off it, rinse, repeat, and put the other 
HD back; several reboots to fiddle with hardware. No reboots for 
software, of course, this *is* Linux after all :-).)

> Fedora cannot (realistically) provide an ideal all-in-one distribution, 
> but it can, if ya'll are willing to try, provide multiple distributions
> capable of providing ideal platforms to each group.
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply |

Gmane