Rich Shepard | 22 May 19:14 2012

How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

   How do I tell NetworkManager in -13.37/x86_64 that there's a wlan0
interface to manage?

   'rfkill list' shows no hard blocks, but NM does not turn on the radio and
allow the wireless interface to become active. It does handle the eth0
interface without issues. The system is running the 3.2.7 kernel (and
modules).

Rich
Rich Shepard | 22 May 21:12 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

On Tue, 22 May 2012, Rich Shepard wrote:

>  How do I tell NetworkManager in -13.37/x86_64 that there's a wlan0
> interface to manage?

   Update: manually invoking 'ifconfig wlan0 up' brings up the interface.
But, there's no route in the kernel routing table. With WICD installed,
wlan0 appeared in the routing table but eth0 was not removed and packets
kept trying to use that interface since it had a lower Metric value.

   Now, with NM, there is no eth0 interface in the routing table until I
insert the cable. Then it comes up with a default route (recognzied as the
Gateway) and a broadcast route. But wlan0 is UP but not RUNNING and has no
entry in the routing table.

   -13.37/x86_64 with WICD works on my Dell Latitude with no issues, and has
since I got the laptop. In my ignorance this seems to be an issue with the
Sony Vaio, even with the iwlwifi driver loaded in the kernel.

   Ideas? Suggestions?

Rich
John Crowhurst | 22 May 21:55 2012
Picon

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

Rich,

Two things you can try:

#1 Use an external USB wireless adapter, if that works fine you know its 
a problem with the hardware in some way.
#2 Take out the internal wireless adapter in the Dell and swap it for 
the one in the Sony and vice versa. If the Dell behaves like the Sony 
did, you have a problem with the wireless adapter. Seek a replacement 
one similar to the working one and use that instead. If the Sony still 
plays up, its more likely to be the Ethernet on the Sony that is the 
problem.

Best,

John

On 22/05/2012 20:12, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012, Rich Shepard wrote:
>
>>  How do I tell NetworkManager in -13.37/x86_64 that there's a wlan0
>> interface to manage?
>
>   Update: manually invoking 'ifconfig wlan0 up' brings up the interface.
> But, there's no route in the kernel routing table. With WICD installed,
> wlan0 appeared in the routing table but eth0 was not removed and packets
> kept trying to use that interface since it had a lower Metric value.
>
>   Now, with NM, there is no eth0 interface in the routing table until I
> insert the cable. Then it comes up with a default route (recognzied as 
(Continue reading)

Rich Shepard | 22 May 22:06 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

On Tue, 22 May 2012, John Crowhurst wrote:

> #1 Use an external USB wireless adapter, if that works fine you know its a
> problem with the hardware in some way.

John,

   OK. I can buy a USB wireless radio and give that a try.

> #2 Take out the internal wireless adapter in the Dell and swap it for the
> one in the Sony and vice versa. If the Dell behaves like the Sony did, you
> have a problem with the wireless adapter. Seek a replacement one similar
> to the working one and use that instead. If the Sony still plays up, its
> more likely to be the Ethernet on the Sony that is the problem.

   I don't know that the sockets and chips for the radios in laptops are
interchangeable. I'll check to see if they are.

Thanks,

Rich

--

-- 
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.          |   Integrity - Credibility - Innovation
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.   |    Helping Ensure Our Clients' Futures
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com>     Voice: 503-667-4517      Fax: 503-667-8863
Rich Shepard | 23 May 02:15 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

On Tue, 22 May 2012, John Crowhurst wrote:

> #1 Use an external USB wireless adapter, if that works fine you know its a 
> problem with the hardware in some way.

John,

   No difference. Tried with Xubuntu-11.10 live CD, too.

> #2 Take out the internal wireless adapter in the Dell and swap it for the
> one in the Sony and vice versa. If the Dell behaves like the Sony did, you
> have a problem with the wireless adapter. Seek a replacement one similar
> to the working one and use that instead. If the Sony still plays up, its
> more likely to be the Ethernet on the Sony that is the problem.

   It's almost certainly not hardware because the system sees WAPs but with
WICD could not send packets over wlan0 because eth0 had routes with lower
metric numbers. With NM there are no eth0 routes when that interface is not
active. In the next day or so I'll take the Sony to a local coffee shop and
see if it can connect and communicate after being manually started by root
running 'ifconfig wlan0 up.'

More when I have it,

Rich
Bradley D. Thornton | 23 May 04:11 2012
Picon

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?


On 05/22/2012 05:15 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012, John Crowhurst wrote:
> 
>> #1 Use an external USB wireless adapter, if that works fine you know
>> its a problem with the hardware in some way.
> 
> John,
> 
>   No difference. Tried with Xubuntu-11.10 live CD, too.

I don't know about ewboontews, but in general, if you test hardware with
a few distros and it still doesn't work you might want to consider the
implication.

--

-- 
Bradley D. Thornton
Manager Network Services
NorthTech Computer
TEL: +1.310.388.9469  (US)
TEL: +44.203.318.2755 (UK)
TEL: +41.43.508.05.10 (CH)
http://NorthTech.US

Rich Shepard | 23 May 15:43 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

On Tue, 22 May 2012, Bradley D. Thornton wrote:

> I don't know about ewboontews, but in general, if you test hardware with a
> few distros and it still doesn't work you might want to consider the
> implication.

Bradley,

   It's all software. The hardware sees the WAPs but does not create routes
only for the appropriate interface.

Thanks,

Rich
TuxaneMedia | 23 May 15:21 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

Rich,

Somewhere in WICD 's configuration you should find an option called
" Always use Wired Connection if available"
Make sure it is unchecked.

The existance of a wired and a wireless interface at the same time
should not cause any problem.
Normally the wireless  always wins over the wired.

You migth check dmesg , why the wlan0 is not brought up at boot time.
Maybe the module doesn't get loaded ?
rfkill has a hard and a softblock option to verify, also.

actually the interface should be visible from ifconfig after boot, but
without an ip4 address.
This is where wicd would kick in to cope with the encryption and make
the connection and run dhcpcd.

Anyway you should not need to use an usb device, as it will maybe even
make things more compicated

Good luck
Jens

Am 23.05.2012 02:15, schrieb Rich Shepard:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012, John Crowhurst wrote:
>
>> #1 Use an external USB wireless adapter, if that works fine you know
>> its a problem with the hardware in some way.
(Continue reading)

Milenko Letic | 23 May 15:26 2012
Picon

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

i use RutilT, on slackware 13.37 and it work perfect job for me. hope this help 

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:21 PM, TuxaneMedia <jens <at> tuxane.com> wrote:
Rich,

Somewhere in WICD 's configuration you should find an option called
" Always use Wired Connection if available"
Make sure it is unchecked.

The existance of a wired and a wireless interface at the same time
should not cause any problem.
Normally the wireless  always wins over the wired.

You migth check dmesg , why the wlan0 is not brought up at boot time.
Maybe the module doesn't get loaded ?
rfkill has a hard and a softblock option to verify, also.

actually the interface should be visible from ifconfig after boot, but
without an ip4 address.
This is where wicd would kick in to cope with the encryption and make
the connection and run dhcpcd.

Anyway you should not need to use an usb device, as it will maybe even
make things more compicated

Good luck
Jens

Am 23.05.2012 02:15, schrieb Rich Shepard:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012, John Crowhurst wrote:
>
>> #1 Use an external USB wireless adapter, if that works fine you know
>> its a problem with the hardware in some way.
>
> John,
>
>   No difference. Tried with Xubuntu-11.10 live CD, too.
>
>> #2 Take out the internal wireless adapter in the Dell and swap it for
>> the
>> one in the Sony and vice versa. If the Dell behaves like the Sony
>> did, you
>> have a problem with the wireless adapter. Seek a replacement one similar
>> to the working one and use that instead. If the Sony still plays up, its
>> more likely to be the Ethernet on the Sony that is the problem.
>
>   It's almost certainly not hardware because the system sees WAPs but
> with
> WICD could not send packets over wlan0 because eth0 had routes with lower
> metric numbers. With NM there are no eth0 routes when that interface
> is not
> active. In the next day or so I'll take the Sony to a local coffee
> shop and
> see if it can connect and communicate after being manually started by
> root
> running 'ifconfig wlan0 up.'
>
> More when I have it,
>
> Rich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> slackware mailing list
> slackware <at> mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/slackware


_______________________________________________
slackware mailing list
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https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/slackware

_______________________________________________
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Rich Shepard | 23 May 15:42 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

On Wed, 23 May 2012, TuxaneMedia wrote:

> Somewhere in WICD 's configuration you should find an option called "
> Always use Wired Connection if available" Make sure it is unchecked.

Jens,

   I can now easily switch between WICD and NetworkManager so I can go look
for this and check its status.

> The existance of a wired and a wireless interface at the same time should
> not cause any problem. Normally the wireless always wins over the wired.

   With my Dell (with uses WICD), there are no eth0 routes when there's no
cable attached. When the radio sees a WAP it establishes routes and
connections.

   With the Sony running WICD the radio sees the WAP, gets an IP address, but
cannot access the server on the other side of the WAP. The apparent reason
is eth0 is UP and has routes with lower metrics in the kernel's routing
table.

   NM manages eth0 quite well: no cable, no eth0 UP, RUNNING, or routes; plug
in the cat5 and the interface comes up and access to the LAN and 'Net works.
With no cable attached, the kernel routing table is empty and wlan0 is down.
NM does not turn on the radio or bring up the interface. As root, when I run
'ifconfig wlan0 up' wlan0 is UP but not RUNNING. 'iwconfig wlan0' shows data
and 'iwlist scan' finds eight (secured) neighborhood WAPs. I need to take
the laptop to a site with an open WAP to see if it will connect once the
interface is manually brought up. That will further narrow the issue.

> You migth check dmesg , why the wlan0 is not brought up at boot time.
> Maybe the module doesn't get loaded ? rfkill has a hard and a softblock
> option to verify, also.

   I looked at dmesg and saw nothing relevant. 'rfkill list' shows no hard
blocks, but it shows three LANs: acer-wireless, sony-wifi, and something
like rhy0. I've no idea what these are or why there's an acer-anything in a
Sony laptop with an Intel Centurion 1000-N wireless radio. There's a soft
block on the acer-wireless LAN. Understanding this is beyond my current
knowledge.

> actually the interface should be visible from ifconfig after boot, but
> without an ip4 address. This is where wicd would kick in to cope with the
> encryption and make the connection and run dhcpcd.

   The interface is listed but it's neither UP nor RUNNING. I agree that WICD
(and NM) should take over and the issue is why neither does.

> Anyway you should not need to use an usb device, as it will maybe even
> make things more compicated

   The USB radio will be returned today as it does not solve the problem. In
any case, since wlan0 can be manually brought UP and it sees the WAP it is
not a hardware issue.

Thanks,

Rich
TuxaneMedia | 23 May 16:11 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

Rich,

I'm pretty sure the routes won't get set up because the interface is not
ready enough.

I just stubled over a thread which almost contains  all the commands  I
wanted to ask you to try.

So less typing for me :)
Please have a look on this :

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1946445&page=1

Jens

 
Am 23.05.2012 15:42, schrieb Rich Shepard:
> On Wed, 23 May 2012, TuxaneMedia wrote:
>
>> Somewhere in WICD 's configuration you should find an option called "
>> Always use Wired Connection if available" Make sure it is unchecked.
>
> Jens,
>
>   I can now easily switch between WICD and NetworkManager so I can go
> look
> for this and check its status.
>
>> The existance of a wired and a wireless interface at the same time
>> should
>> not cause any problem. Normally the wireless always wins over the wired.
>
>   With my Dell (with uses WICD), there are no eth0 routes when there's no
> cable attached. When the radio sees a WAP it establishes routes and
> connections.
>
>   With the Sony running WICD the radio sees the WAP, gets an IP
> address, but
> cannot access the server on the other side of the WAP. The apparent
> reason
> is eth0 is UP and has routes with lower metrics in the kernel's routing
> table.
>
>   NM manages eth0 quite well: no cable, no eth0 UP, RUNNING, or
> routes; plug
> in the cat5 and the interface comes up and access to the LAN and 'Net
> works.
> With no cable attached, the kernel routing table is empty and wlan0 is
> down.
> NM does not turn on the radio or bring up the interface. As root, when
> I run
> 'ifconfig wlan0 up' wlan0 is UP but not RUNNING. 'iwconfig wlan0'
> shows data
> and 'iwlist scan' finds eight (secured) neighborhood WAPs. I need to take
> the laptop to a site with an open WAP to see if it will connect once the
> interface is manually brought up. That will further narrow the issue.
>
>> You migth check dmesg , why the wlan0 is not brought up at boot time.
>> Maybe the module doesn't get loaded ? rfkill has a hard and a softblock
>> option to verify, also.
>
>   I looked at dmesg and saw nothing relevant. 'rfkill list' shows no hard
> blocks, but it shows three LANs: acer-wireless, sony-wifi, and something
> like rhy0. I've no idea what these are or why there's an acer-anything
> in a
> Sony laptop with an Intel Centurion 1000-N wireless radio. There's a soft
> block on the acer-wireless LAN. Understanding this is beyond my current
> knowledge.
>
>> actually the interface should be visible from ifconfig after boot, but
>> without an ip4 address. This is where wicd would kick in to cope with
>> the
>> encryption and make the connection and run dhcpcd.
>
>   The interface is listed but it's neither UP nor RUNNING. I agree
> that WICD
> (and NM) should take over and the issue is why neither does.
>
>> Anyway you should not need to use an usb device, as it will maybe even
>> make things more compicated
>
>   The USB radio will be returned today as it does not solve the
> problem. In
> any case, since wlan0 can be manually brought UP and it sees the WAP
> it is
> not a hardware issue.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> slackware mailing list
> slackware <at> mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/slackware
Rich Shepard | 23 May 23:53 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

On Wed, 23 May 2012, TuxaneMedia wrote:

> I'm pretty sure the routes won't get set up because the interface is not
> ready enough.

Jens, Bradley, et al.:

   The problem has been fixed. My business partner (a software engineer) came
over and eventually discovered that wlan0 needed to be described in
rc.inet1.conf and wicd used as the connection tool.

   With the laptops on which I've used wicd only the static IP information
for eth0 has needed to be entered. For whatever reason, the Sony wants wlan0
to also be included in the configuation file.

   Also, while I downloaded, built, and installed all the prerequisites for
nm-applet that are noted on the SlackBuild.org site I still missed
something.

Thanks to all of you!

Rich
Bengt Richter | 24 May 02:56 2012
Picon

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

On 05/23/2012 02:53 PM Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2012, TuxaneMedia wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure the routes won't get set up because the interface is not
>> ready enough.
>
> Jens, Bradley, et al.:
>
>     The problem has been fixed. My business partner (a software engineer) came
> over and eventually discovered that wlan0 needed to be described in
> rc.inet1.conf and wicd used as the connection tool.
>
>     With the laptops on which I've used wicd only the static IP information
> for eth0 has needed to be entered. For whatever reason, the Sony wants wlan0
> to also be included in the configuation file.
>
>     Also, while I downloaded, built, and installed all the prerequisites for
> nm-applet that are noted on the SlackBuild.org site I still missed
> something.
>
> Thanks to all of you!
>
> Rich

Congratulations, you deserve the fruits of your persistence!

<rant warning>

Having watched your process (thanks for sharing it here, and thanks to the others who also shared),
it seems typical of many. Google is great at what it does, but not at directly supporting this kind of
information search. Too much chaff, and the wheat gets lost.

Now that you have winnowed forth some real wheat, I wonder how the search for it can be made easier
for the next person who is looking for the same info, or something your discovered along the way.

IMHO the situation still pretty bad, considering all the tools available. If you count the hours you've used
on this (and coffees you've bought to get into a WiFi test area ;-) and gas if you've driven, etc., and paying
yourself minimum wage $7.50/hr, what was the cost of finding out what you needed? Plus $7.50/hr for everyone
actively participating?

Will the information wind up on
    http://www.slackwiki.com/Main_Page
? Well, not automatically, I guess ;-)
It seems a stretch to ask you to transfer the essentials to there, but maybe an entry
under hardware for your problematical laptop could link back to this thread, for a start?

Search features for forums generally bury you in irrelevant bikeshedding.
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikeshedding
Using site:<forum site> with google gives about the same, if not identical, effect.

There is a business opportunity in this pattern, which entrepreneurs are trying to exploit, but
maximizing profit
directly usually means they try to own the information and collect tolls for access, which is not exactly
the FOSS ethos.
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethos

Once you start thinking that you may profit by NOT answering a forum question right away, open community cooperation
is on its way out. Look at  what happens in scientific communities., where every innocent discovery awaits
its seigneur
to exercise his "droit."
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_du_seigneur

A kickstarter
     http://www.kickstarter.com/
kind of reward system for good information well presented and indexed might have its place,
but I'm afraid people will try to maximize their returns rather than be satisfied with fair rewards of appreciation.

I have seen paypal contribution buttons on some websites. Maybe that is one way.
It would be interesting just to have some hard data on the value of FOSS information as measured by
the situation of an employee estimating how much time the information saved him in doing his assigned job,
multiplied by his salary/benefits rate of compensation.

I'd like to see the FSF run a web form on their servers that FOSS sites could link to with a button
like the paypal buttons, to collect time/savings/value information like that for FOSS from anywhere.
It would be easy and interesting.

If you read some good information you realized saved you significant time, you could just click the button
and come to an FSF page that would log the referer page and ask for time and payrate info, and some optional
rating info. The button could be configured with hidden field presets for specific items like source code
or docs for either multiple buttons. Or you could have a dropdown with detailed items.

Then with the data we could think more clearly about how a fair share monetary reward system might be created,
for those who can be satisfied with a living short of a killing. Companies whose employees had saved time by
using FOSS programs or data could then be lobbied for FSF contributions based on real evidence of benefit.

If you're still reading, thanks. I just wanted to express some OTTOMH ideas ;-)
</rant warning>

Regards,
Bengt Richter
Rich Shepard | 24 May 04:06 2012

Re: How To Tell NetworkManager There's a Wireless Interface To Manage?

On Wed, 23 May 2012, Bengt Richter wrote:

> Congratulations, you deserve the fruits of your persistence!

Bengt,

   Thank you. But, I'd prefer a few pints of a local microbrew. :-)

> Having watched your process (thanks for sharing it here, and thanks to the
> others who also shared), it seems typical of many. Google is great at what
> it does, but not at directly supporting this kind of information search.
> Too much chaff, and the wheat gets lost.

   I found numerous threads (many on linuxquestions.org) dispersed over a
half-dozen or so distributions. The results depended on just how I
structured the search terms. This is normal and there's not much one can do
about it.

> IMHO the situation still pretty bad, considering all the tools available.
> If you count the hours you've used on this (and coffees you've bought to
> get into a WiFi test area ;-) and gas if you've driven, etc., and paying
> yourself minimum wage $7.50/hr, what was the cost of finding out what you
> needed? Plus $7.50/hr for everyone actively participating?

   Minimum wage here in Oregon is $8.75/hr. Sometimes, if I record the hours
I spend on a project, I don't even reach that level. But, I charge a flat
rate whenever we can define an end point so I don't bother figuring the rate
per hour.

> Will the information wind up on http://www.slackwiki.com/Main_Page
> ? Well, not automatically, I guess ;-)
> It seems a stretch to ask you to transfer the essentials to there, but
> maybe an entry under hardware for your problematical laptop could link
> back to this thread, for a start?

   I can put together a synopsis for slackwiki.com or some other place if
that would be helpful. When I post to this (and other) mail lists I always
try to make the subject as specific as possible. What would you suggest as a
title for a wiki page on setting up network interfaces on the Sony Vaio
model we have? I can summarize it in a paragraph or two and save eveyone the
pain of reading through the ordeal to get to the bottom line: uncomment the
appropriate wlan0 lines in /etc/rc.d/rc.inet1.conf and assign values
specific to that host. And, use wicd rather than NetworkManager and
nm-applet. The latter seems to be missing some libraries despite my getting
all those mentioned on SBo.

   My one remaining issue is that now the wireless works automagically,
booting with the ethernet cable attached brings up eth0 and starts it
running (which is fine for communicating with other hosts on our LAN with
the broadcast route), but no default route with gateway is established. In
/etc/rc.d/rc.inet1.conf the IP address is both on the default gateway line
and in the eth[0] stanza. So, ... until I'm sufficiently recovered from this
and motivated to figure out why there's no default route with gateway, I add
the command in rc.local, just after restoring /etc/resolv.conf from where
dhcpcd overwites it when there's a wireless connection working. Kludge.
Inelegant. But, it works. :-)

Regards,

Rich

Gmane