Macintosh Common Lisp

Benjamin Perrault | 5 Jun 2011 02:00

Intel native MCL

I've been using MCL a lot (again) lately, but one looming concern I have is it seems to still be very much a PPC
centric app ( or I'm  building it wrong because it always comes out as one ).

Has there been any progress on making it an intel native app, as Lion appears to have no PPC support?

This is something I've just realized and MCL ( and MCLIDE, which I use for Clojure and Clozure CL ) seem to be
the only non-intel apps I have let and there really is no replacement for either of them....

Anyway - just curious if that ball is rolling. I'm not good enough of a lisp hack to help much on that low of a
level but I wanted to ask...

cheers and thanks,
-bp
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Shannon Spires | 5 Jun 2011 03:32

Fwd: Intel native MCL

There will never be an Intel-native MCL. It's too much work for too little gain.

That's the bad news. The good news is that Clozure CL is of course already Intel-native and its compiler is superior to MCL's in many ways beyond just being Intel-native.

CCL's Cocoa IDE is not yet quite up to the facility of MCL's IDE, but it's getting close. I've been using it exclusively for Lisp development for about 6 months now, and it's good enough that I no longer find myself periodically yelling at the computer and launching MCL. It's moved from alpha quality to beta quality.

One thing that would be very helpful in improving the CCL Cocoa IDE is for MCL veterans to use it and provide feedback (to Clozure or to this list) of your top n "dealbreaker" issues that you need working to make the CCL IDE usable. As I said, my dealbreakers list is now empty and I'm working on my "it would be very nice if" list, but if you have any dealbreakers of your own please voice them.

Clozure and several volunteers are working on the IDE and your feedback always helps them prioritize issues.

Shannon Spires

Begin forwarded message:

From: Benjamin Perrault <ben.perrault-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Date: June 4, 2011 6:00:40 PM MDT
To: <info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [info-mcl] Intel native MCL
Reply-To: Discussion list for MCL users <info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>

I've been using MCL a lot (again) lately, but one looming concern I have is it seems to still be very much a PPC centric app ( or I'm building it wrong because it always comes out as one ).

Has there been any progress on making it an intel native app, as Lion appears to have no PPC support?

This is something I've just realized and MCL ( and MCLIDE, which I use for Clojure and Clozure CL ) seem to be the only non-intel apps I have let and there really is no replacement for either of them....

Anyway - just curious if that ball is rolling. I'm not good enough of a lisp hack to help much on that low of a level but I wanted to ask...

cheers and thanks,
-bp
_______________________________________________
info-mcl mailing list
info-mcl-duOd456sFkOIwRZHo2/mJg@public.gmane.orgm
http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl

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Benjamin Perrault | 5 Jun 2011 05:45

Re: Fwd: Intel native MCL

Though i do love Clozure CL - even with the trunk version of the idea, it just doesn't "feel" as good as MCL ( or MCLIDE ). In fact, 95% of the time when I use Clozure, I use MCLIDE for that reason.

Which brings another question ( and this is surely the wrong list ): Has anyone considered migrating MCLIDE over to CCL? It to is a PPC binary which mean's it's life is shortened in it's current state. It appears to be almost a full MCL implementation ( so I'm sure porting may be awful ) but with Terje's patch to generate Cocoa interface Code under Clozure, it is pretty close to what I'm looking for.

With that said, I suppose it's time to get down and dirty CCL's IDE and start voicing my opinion as it seems I will have to kiss MCL goodbye in the near future ( except on my G4 cube which I keep around to run Opcode Studio Vision, MCL 4.x and SK8 )....

Thanks for the feed back....

cheers,

-bp

On Jun 4, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Shannon Spires wrote:

There will never be an Intel-native MCL. It's too much work for too little gain.

That's the bad news. The good news is that Clozure CL is of course already Intel-native and its compiler is superior to MCL's in many ways beyond just being Intel-native.

CCL's Cocoa IDE is not yet quite up to the facility of MCL's IDE, but it's getting close. I've been using it exclusively for Lisp development for about 6 months now, and it's good enough that I no longer find myself periodically yelling at the computer and launching MCL. It's moved from alpha quality to beta quality.

One thing that would be very helpful in improving the CCL Cocoa IDE is for MCL veterans to use it and provide feedback (to Clozure or to this list) of your top n "dealbreaker" issues that you need working to make the CCL IDE usable. As I said, my dealbreakers list is now empty and I'm working on my "it would be very nice if" list, but if you have any dealbreakers of your own please voice them.

Clozure and several volunteers are working on the IDE and your feedback always helps them prioritize issues.

Shannon Spires

Begin forwarded message:

From: Benjamin Perrault <ben.perrault-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Date: June 4, 2011 6:00:40 PM MDT
To: <info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [info-mcl] Intel native MCL
Reply-To: Discussion list for MCL users <info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>

I've been using MCL a lot (again) lately, but one looming concern I have is it seems to still be very much a PPC centric app ( or I'm building it wrong because it always comes out as one ).

Has there been any progress on making it an intel native app, as Lion appears to have no PPC support?

This is something I've just realized and MCL ( and MCLIDE, which I use for Clojure and Clozure CL ) seem to be the only non-intel apps I have let and there really is no replacement for either of them....

Anyway - just curious if that ball is rolling. I'm not good enough of a lisp hack to help much on that low of a level but I wanted to ask...

cheers and thanks,
-bp
_______________________________________________
info-mcl mailing list
info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org
http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl

_______________________________________________
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info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org
http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl

_______________________________________________
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info-mcl@...
http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl

headers

peter | 5 Jun 2011 21:56

Re: Fwd: Intel native MCL

At 7:32 PM -0600 11/6/4, Shannon Spires wrote:
>[...]
>
>One thing that would be very helpful in improving the CCL Cocoa IDE 
>is for MCL veterans to use it and provide feedback (to Clozure or to 
>this list) of your top n "dealbreaker" issues that you need working 
>to make the CCL IDE usable.

Thanks for your perspective Shannon.

The highest on my must-have list for the CCL IDE is mouse-copy.  I 
appreciate that I may be not so with the herd in that. With dyslexia 
forces to battle, I find more implementation time is spent fixing 
typos and commensurate bugs than actually producing good code.  In 
MCL, using mouse-copy, I can avoid the majority of such wasted effort.

You wrote: "... CCL's Cocoa IDE is not yet quite up to the facility 
of MCL's IDE, but it's getting close.". I expect that like diving in 
the deep end with a spoken language, total immersion with no going 
back, might make CCL's IDE more palatable after an initial breaking 
in period.  It sounds as if this might take half a year. Maybe Lion 
will be the appropriate kick in the behind for me. As it is, I've 
dived into the Hemlockery many many times, all too often I find 
myself needing to come up for air - the sanity of Fred and MCLIDE.

Mea culpa, I still haven't managed to get Zmacs out of my fingers.

Oo... that reminds me, Keyboard Macros. That would be so useful. I 
use Fred for a lot more than lisp, it is a brain extension for the 
digital realm.
And the equivalent of Fred Commands etc (quick aide memoire to 
available commands) would be useful for CCL.

-p
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