BINC IMAP: Developers, patches, bugfixes.

Andreas Aardal Hanssen | 24 Jul 2005 14:48

Tempting change..

Hi, everyone.

The last couple of weeks, I've been tempted by adding a new dependency to 
Binc for 1.3. The idea comes from us having to move to a more 
internationalized system, with CHARSET support in SEARCH and indexed 
searching in general. It's becoming painful.. We need unicode support. And 
I'd like Binc to move out of the unix-only area by isolating platform 
dependencies. Binc IMAP for Windows, that would be very interesting.

So I'm thinking about Qt 4 Open Source, definitely influenced by it being 
what I work with every day.. Qt's core library has support for some very 
nice container classes, a cross platform file I/O API, threads, plugins 
and excellent support for translation and unicode.

Maybe Qt 4 could bring Binc IMAP up from the simple server position? There 
are definitely not many open source cross-platform IMAP servers out there.

Open for comments..

Andy 

--
Andreas Aardal Hanssen   | http://www.andreas.hanssen.name/gpg
Author of Binc IMAP      |  "It is better not to do something
http://www.bincimap.org/ |        than to do it poorly."

Steffen Einsle | 25 Jul 2005 09:49

Picon

Re: Tempting change..

Andreas Aardal Hanssen schrieb:
> Hi, everyone.
> 
> The last couple of weeks, I've been tempted by adding a new dependency to 
> Binc for 1.3. The idea comes from us having to move to a more 
> internationalized system, with CHARSET support in SEARCH and indexed 
> searching in general. It's becoming painful.. We need unicode support. And 
> I'd like Binc to move out of the unix-only area by isolating platform 
> dependencies. Binc IMAP for Windows, that would be very interesting.

i came to binc because its "lightweight", fast and easy setup. i never
(!) use windows as a MTA, so Binc IMAP for windows is pointless for me,
unicode is not for me either, and i'd prefer a small and quick
implementation.

> 
> So I'm thinking about Qt 4 Open Source, definitely influenced by it being 
> what I work with every day.. Qt's core library has support for some very 
> nice container classes, a cross platform file I/O API, threads, plugins 
> and excellent support for translation and unicode.
> 
> Maybe Qt 4 could bring Binc IMAP up from the simple server position? There 
> are definitely not many open source cross-platform IMAP servers out there.

--

-- 

viele Grüße,

  Steffen Einsle, Dipl. Inf.(FH)        fidion GmbH
  Tel. ++49 (0)931 6001 733             Berner Str. 2

(Continue reading)

Andreas Aardal Hanssen | 29 Jul 2005 15:00

Re: Tempting change..

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Steffen Einsle wrote:
>i came to binc because its "lightweight", fast and easy setup. i never
>(!) use windows as a MTA, so Binc IMAP for windows is pointless for me,
>unicode is not for me either, and i'd prefer a small and quick
>implementation.

If you don't need anything other than what Binc IMAP 1.2 already provides,
then nobody is forcing you to move to 1.4. 1.2 will continue to be
actively maintained as long as Binc IMAP exists. But as with today, only
bugs are fixed.

The future of Binc IMAP requires general text codec support, a reduced
memory footprint, perhaps threading and perhaps plugins.

Andy 

--
Andreas Aardal Hanssen   | http://www.andreas.hanssen.name/gpg
Author of Binc IMAP      |  "It is better not to do something
http://www.bincimap.org/ |        than to do it poorly."

Jerry Lundström | 25 Jul 2005 09:08

Picon

Picon

Re: Tempting change..

Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote:
> Maybe Qt 4 could bring Binc IMAP up from the simple server position? There 
> are definitely not many open source cross-platform IMAP servers out there.

I can understand the need for a good C++ cross-platform core library but 
  unless Qt 4 is devided into small pieces this is not one of them.

I truly hope this can be done in some other way because Qt 4 as it is 
today is one big no-go for us dealing with ~2000 active clients 24/7 .

--

-- 
Jerry Lundström
Sektionen för IT och media, Stockholms universitet
+46 (0)8 16 19 99 / http://www.it.su.se

Andreas Aardal Hanssen | 29 Jul 2005 14:46

Re: Tempting change..

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, [ISO-8859-1] Jerry Lundström wrote:
>I truly hope this can be done in some other way because Qt 4 as it is
>today is one big no-go for us dealing with ~2000 active clients 24/7 .

Why is it a no-go? Please elaborate.

Andy 

--
Andreas Aardal Hanssen   | http://www.andreas.hanssen.name/gpg
Author of Binc IMAP      |  "It is better not to do something
http://www.bincimap.org/ |        than to do it poorly."

Jerry Lundström | 29 Jul 2005 15:03

Picon

Picon

Re: Tempting change..

Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, [ISO-8859-1] Jerry Lundström wrote:
> 
>>I truly hope this can be done in some other way because Qt 4 as it is
>>today is one big no-go for us dealing with ~2000 active clients 24/7 .
> 
> Why is it a no-go? Please elaborate.

Because I didn't know that QtCore existed (read your other mails) and 
now that it does its a go-go. =)

--

-- 
Jerry Lundström, System Developer
Section for IT and Media, Stockholms University, Sweden
+46 (0)8 16 19 99 / http://www.it.su.se

Jeremy Kitchen | 24 Jul 2005 21:46

Re: Tempting change..


On Sun, July 24, 2005 7:48 am, Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
>
>
> The last couple of weeks, I've been tempted by adding a new dependency to
>  Binc for 1.3. The idea comes from us having to move to a more
> internationalized system, with CHARSET support in SEARCH and indexed
> searching in general. It's becoming painful.. We need unicode support.
> And
> I'd like Binc to move out of the unix-only area by isolating platform
> dependencies. Binc IMAP for Windows, that would be very interesting.
>
> So I'm thinking about Qt 4 Open Source, definitely influenced by it being
>  what I work with every day.. Qt's core library has support for some very
>  nice container classes, a cross platform file I/O API, threads, plugins
> and excellent support for translation and unicode.
>
> Maybe Qt 4 could bring Binc IMAP up from the simple server position?
> There
> are definitely not many open source cross-platform IMAP servers out there.

hmm... I don't really see what use one would have with bincimap on
windows.... I don't know of any windows MTAs that use the maildir
format...

plus... and especially in the case of gentoo users, installing Qt is a
real pain... you might lose some of your userbase.

I know you've said before you're not concerned with the size of your

(Continue reading)

Peter Stuge | 25 Jul 2005 00:57

Re: Tempting change..

On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 02:46:49PM -0500, Jeremy Kitchen wrote:
> On Sun, July 24, 2005 7:48 am, Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote:
> > So I'm thinking about Qt 4 Open Source

I feel strongly against this..

> plus... and especially in the case of gentoo users, installing Qt
> is a real pain...

..because Qt is so big.

[..]

> Qt is really really nice though :)

..probably, but it's so big.

I think it's (almost) OK for KDE to depend on Qt but I don't like
"Qt" and "server" in the same sentence. Oh, guess I just wrote that
already.. :)

Seriously, at least Qt 3 is huge, and unless there has been enormous
effort put into allowing Qt 4 to scale well downwards I don't think
it's a good idea for several reasons;

* ease of use (compile time, installation requirements)
* size (lines of code, security obviously)
* memory usage and speed (C++ is resource hungry, one bincimapd and
Qt per logged-in user => gigabytes worth of RAM.. (Yeahyeah, shared
objects..))

(Continue reading)

Andreas Aardal Hanssen | 29 Jul 2005 14:44

Re: Tempting change..

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Peter Stuge wrote:
>On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 02:46:49PM -0500, Jeremy Kitchen wrote:
>> On Sun, July 24, 2005 7:48 am, Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote:
>> > So I'm thinking about Qt 4 Open Source
>I feel strongly against this..
>> plus... and especially in the case of gentoo users, installing Qt
>> is a real pain...
>..because Qt is so big.
>[..]
>> Qt is really really nice though :)
>..probably, but it's so big.

Actually, QtCore is ~1.4MB. I think there are several other libraries out
there that are significantly larger.

>I think it's (almost) OK for KDE to depend on Qt but I don't like "Qt"
>and "server" in the same sentence. Oh, guess I just wrote that already..
>:)

That's different with Qt 4. Qt 4 is a collection of libraries now, and the
only library that would be in use would be QtCore. Qt 4 is a complete c++
dev framework; not a huge GUI library. And the QtCore and QtNetwork
modules target non-GUI development directly. We wouldn't use QtNetwork,
though.

>* ease of use (compile time, installation requirements)
>* size (lines of code, security obviously)
>* memory usage and speed (C++ is resource hungry, one bincimapd and Qt
>  per logged-in user => gigabytes worth of RAM.. (Yeahyeah, shared
>  objects..))

(Continue reading)

Peter Stuge | 11 Aug 2005 02:14

Re: Tempting change..

Thanks for bringing this thread up again, Henry. I was planning on
commenting but then screenfuls of other messages invaded my inbox..

On Fri, Jul 29, 2005 at 02:44:26PM +0200, Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Peter Stuge wrote:
> >> Qt is really really nice though :)
> >..probably, but it's so big.
> 
> Actually, QtCore is ~1.4MB. I think there are several other
> libraries out there that are significantly larger.

That's not bad at all.

> >I think it's (almost) OK for KDE to depend on Qt but I don't like
> >"Qt" and "server" in the same sentence. Oh, guess I just wrote
> >that already.. :)
> 
> That's different with Qt 4. Qt 4 is a collection of libraries now,
> and the only library that would be in use would be QtCore.

Ok. This is what matters and as long as QtCore can be distributed/
built/installed separately from anything else Qt I think reusing it
sounds good, with one small reservation..

> Qt 4 is a complete c++ dev framework; not a huge GUI library.

Right, like glib != gtk.

> >* ease of use (compile time, installation requirements)
> >* size (lines of code, security obviously)

(Continue reading)

Jeremy Kitchen | 25 Jul 2005 06:16

Re: Tempting change..

On Sunday 24 July 2005 03:57 pm, Peter Stuge wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 02:46:49PM -0500, Jeremy Kitchen wrote:
> > On Sun, July 24, 2005 7:48 am, Andreas Aardal Hanssen wrote:
> > > So I'm thinking about Qt 4 Open Source
>
> I feel strongly against this..
>
> > plus... and especially in the case of gentoo users, installing Qt
> > is a real pain...
>
> ..because Qt is so big.

it also depends on X iirc.. or maybe there's a way to compile it without 
needing X.. either way.. yes, it's a hog.. :)

nice, but big.

-Jeremy

Andreas Aardal Hanssen | 29 Jul 2005 14:45

Re: Tempting change..

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005, Jeremy Kitchen wrote:
>it also depends on X iirc.. or maybe there's a way to compile it without
>needing X.. either way.. yes, it's a hog.. :)

QtGui does; the others do not.

Andy 

--
Andreas Aardal Hanssen   | http://www.andreas.hanssen.name/gpg
Author of Binc IMAP      |  "It is better not to do something
http://www.bincimap.org/ |        than to do it poorly."

Henry Baragar | 10 Aug 2005 18:36

Picon

Re: Tempting change..

Hello,

Sorry I lost the original message, hence the bad order.

Andreas started this thread with...

> The last couple of weeks, I've been tempted by adding a new dependency to 
> Binc for 1.3. The idea comes from us having to move to a more 
> internationalized system, with CHARSET support in SEARCH and indexed 
> searching in general. It's becoming painful.. We need unicode support.  
> AndI'd like Binc to move out of the unix-only area by isolating platform 
> dependencies. Binc IMAP for Windows, that would be very interesting.
>So I'm thinking about Qt 4 Open Source, definitely influenced by it being 
> what I work with every day.. Qt's core library has support for some very 
> nice container classes, a cross platform file I/O API, threads, plugins 
> and excellent support for translation and unicode.
>Maybe Qt 4 could bring Binc IMAP up from the simple server position?  
> Thereare definitely not many open source cross-platform IMAP servers out  
> there.
>Open for comments..
>

Binc's stated "goals are to be secure, stable, and fast, yet flexible and  
easy to maintain." (http://www.bincimap.org/).  How does the proposed  
change measure up to each of these 3 (or is it 5) stated goals?

My real observation is be careful of the potential that the issues of Binc  
running on one platform may affect its reputation running on another  
platform (or overall reputation).

(Continue reading)

Gary | 24 Jul 2005 16:22

Re: Tempting change..

Hi Andy,

--On Sunday, July 24, 2005 2:48 PM +0200 you wrote in part:

... [snip] ...
> I'd like Binc to move out of the unix-only area by isolating platform
> dependencies. Binc IMAP for Windows, that would be very interesting.

very cool.

> So I'm thinking about Qt 4 Open Source, definitely influenced by it being
> what I work with every day.. Qt's core library has support for some very
> nice container classes, a cross platform file I/O API, threads, plugins
> and excellent support for translation and unicode.

... [snip] ...

> There  are definitely not many open source cross-platform IMAP servers
> out there.

no there are not :)

> Open for comments..

I think it is an absolute terrific idea, and would really open up a market 
that has not been there before to a large degree.

--

-- 
Gary

(Continue reading)

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